yea, been usin it to try and get bearing/range for some plots on a taget (momoyama maru) at range to get his speed, but so far its been way off, first time i got 8 knots, second, 15 knots, and now i just did it for the 3rd time and get 12 knots. i've tried the step back, and it still seems to jump around alot. sometimes i'll run the beam over him where i know he's at, and the pip on both the Ascope and PPI dont show up, so i have to step back again to find him.

i am at around 10 nm running parallel to him (about to set up for attack and see if i can get a better return on speed using sonar instead) at the very least i have a pretty accurate course.

@Nisgeis: I realy love this mod. I've always loved working with radar, in real life too. When I was kid I went to fishery school (yeah, we have those in Holland :) ) and I took an extra course: radar observer. It was pretty intense, but I loved it. I had to know every single part of the radar, I had to know what it was and what it did. I also had to know everything about every kind of clutter and how to negate it, how to tell real echo's from every kind of fake echo from side lobes, to clutter, to interference (or bananas because, well, they look like bananas :)). It's been a long time since I've stopped sailing, so my knoledge is pretty rusty. But some if it's still stuck in there.

That's one of the things I sorely missed in SH IV: radar, in my opinion one of the most notable differences between fleetboat and u-boats. A very powerfull tool indeed. But, a tool that's not as easy or straightforward as many movies and games would have us believe. Take the ppi for instance: radar echo's are rarely 'dots'. They're more often seemingly radomly shaped blobs. And a sampam certainly doenst give the same echo as big BB. :)

And one of the things I also miss is being able to spot land. And navigate by it. Imagine doing a night or fog aproach in some coastal ereas. And remember: the coastline being shown on radar are only the highest points, the real coast could extend from that quite a bit. :)

But that's what I love about sensors like that, figuring out the situational awareness. Using your knoweldge and wits to figure out what's real and what's not and what's going on in the world around you.

Hmm, I've noticed this become a pretty lengthy reply. But I tend to ramble on quite a bit about things I like. :)

@Zero2005: yeah, it can get pretty messy. Radar isn't too accurate about bearings, but it's spot on when it comes to range. It's best to just get a rough estimate of course and speed when you're at long range and refine when you get closer. Get a radar range combined with visual bearings, and you should be right on target.

Failing that, use experience. What speeds are commen? When I intercepted that tanker, I was acting on a report on the map. Wich said it was a ship traveling at medium speed. In the game that's usualy 9 knots. So imput the speed in advance and checked if the generated range stayed on centered on the real range on the radar (the green triangle in on the A-scope).

What would have been ideal, and I think I've said this a bunch of times before, is if we could have a send range/bearing to TDC, but also to map button. This would seriously reduce the workload for a single player. It wouldn't be a god's eye view. The mark on the map would only be as accurate as the readings you took. For the life of me, I cannot understand why Ubi hasn't put that in, even now in SH V. It seems like such a simple, straight forward idea. Anywho, I see I'm starting to ramble on again.

That's all for now folks, good night and good hunting!

Well, you can send the range from the radar to the TDC, via the stadimeter. Make sure you have the stadimeter option in the periscope screen, then whatever you measure will be 'loaded' into the stadimeter, for you to send to the TDC. You have to use the periscope to point to whatever bearing you want though. That's about as good as I can get it. It's not too much hassle once you get used to it. You can't send it to the navigation map though. Various things have been tried, such as transposing the attack map's white X t the nav map, so it can be plotted. Transposing the navigation tools to the attack map, so the X can be plotted. But nothing has worked so far. I'm working on a DRT which may help with this (it would show the radar plot at least).

The coastal return is missing yes :-(. I did some work on arced contacts, which made the radar much more confusing to use. Larger contacts are actually slightly larger on both the PPI and 'A' scope.

okay. I am lost
 

This devise is too sophisticated for me. I got lost in the instructions. I have yet to read Mr. Channing's tutorial.

I deleted the file in TMO per your previous recommendation. I will not use it with my boat, a Gato, until whatever needs fixing is fixed. What is the best way for me to tackle this mod? I am interested in learning how it works, and since everyone is proclaiming it is great, I am committed to trying to figure it out.

In the meantime, I will begin reading Mr. Channings tutorial.

i take back what i said, i've just sunk 3 ships (yay! no duds either, finally past that date where i can use mk14's again!) very easily using fast-90 + the radar. i've been able to calculate speed to within half a knot, or less in some cases.

usually do the 3-minute thing to get rough speed + course, then i do another 3 minute "update", continue on and add another mark at 5 minutes, and another at 10, and average them all out to get a pretty dang close speed, all the while way beyond the range of sonar/hydrophones.

have yet to use the 3d TDC, someone should make a good youtube video about it lol, maybe show different targets and how it can be used in different situations?

zero
 

you posted how you calculate speed not using the mod that this thread addresses. however, you then asked about a tutorial, which is being addressed in another thread by John Channing in this forum. A tutorial will help me too.

He's using the radar to get the speed by plotting the points from the radar, then applying the three minute rule to that plot. :ping: :yep:

okay, if you say so
 

I accept your reading of zero's post. He fooled/mislead/confused me.

some fundamental questions
 

the mod display in the opening post shows four sweep ranges: precision sweep, 3K, 20k and 40k on the A scope. What does precision sweep mean? Is that the same thing as the sweep you describe as providing the approximate range within 3,000 yds.? If so, I assume that the purpose of a precision sweep is so that a captain can then adjust the A scope to the appropriate 3K, 20K, and 40K range, whichever is applicable?

Recently, when I have tried to focus on the target's range, I am not seeing a white triangle. And the green triangle is usually not visible. I am not sure if my range is correct, but when I check it against the map contact it looks like it is. Has anyone else reported this? If I check range on the A scope using the 40K setting when the target's range is actually 18K, will the white triangle and green triangle appear? Or do I have to switch the A scope sweep to 20K? If so, why is that?

Sometimes I have trouble seeing a pip on the A scope radar. Other times I see it, or if there are multiple targets, I see several. Any issues here?

I have never been able to do a fine range adjustment by dragging the white triangle up or down when focused on the pip. Is there an issue here?

Once I get this stuff mastered, I will calculate course and range. Then I will go on to speed. This mod is time consuming, and I assume it will be used by those that play with map contacts off primarily. Why play with the mod if map contacts are on?

The precision sweep is the one to use for measuring the range, all the other settings are for searching for targets. The precision mode or expanded mode is a certain section of the radar trace zoomed in. Normally in the 3k mode, the radar will show all signals received between 0 and 3k yards. At 20k it will show all radar returns that are between 0 and 20k yards. At 40k mode (in reality 80k mode) it shows all target between 0 and 40k all cramped up in that tiny tiny few inches of the 'A' Scope, which is basically just an oscilloscope from zero time to the tie it takes the radar signal to travel 80k yards (in 40k mode). That means the image is too small to get any useful info out of, so what they did was to come up with a way to 'zoom in' on a small section of the radar trace at any given time position (time = distance as the speed (of light) is known). So, in expanded mode the oscilloscope shows only the part of the trace that is 1,500 yards either side of where the range indicator says. When you wind the range indicator up, the zoomed in section of the scope moves up with it. It's like a little magnifying glass on a part of the trace. The early radar sets were basically just time measuring devices. The oscilloscope shows how long it took a radar pules to bounce off a ship and return and the range can be measured by reading off the time with the radar scope. The 'A' Scope is purely a time measurement device, which to be accurate enough need to give the operater a large enough view to get a decent amount of precision (3,000 yards across a six inches as opposed to 40,000 yards across a few inches).

The white and green triangles only appear in the precision mode as that's the only time they make any sense and the only time they match up to what is being displayed. To get the triangles you have to be in precision mode, which is always the same position on the switch.

What happens to the pip - is it flickering on and off? If so that's the waves blocking the target from radar view. You will see multiple pips if there are
multiple targets. Pick one pip and track that for the convoy's course and speed. If you keep observing on the radar scope you should be able to follow the target you are tracking. The biggest pip will be the fattest target, so try to aim for that one.

Drag anywhere on the scope, not the triangle and see if that helps. You can drag left / right for quick adjustment and up / down for ultra fine adjustment.

It's a bit of a personal choice really. Mods like this, which are sometimes deemed 'realism' mods or 'hardcore' mods do put a lot of people off as essentially all it does is make the game more difficult, as you no longer have a bird's eye sat nav GPS digitally enhanced 100% up to date view of exactly where 30 ships are at any given point in time. For those that want the added challenge, then you can use this mod and use the radar in an authentically correct way - this is how the radar worked back then. You can use it to understand why they couldn't track multiple targets to within a hair's breadth of its actual position and understand how optical bearings are far superior to radar bearings. You can also get a feel for how disorientated you can get when you are just relying on this type of manual measurement. It can get really confusing really quickly, especially if you are tracking multiple high speed targets in poor visibility. It helps to explain why tracking parties got confused or why targets were lost, in a way that you just can't understand if you play with map contacts on. Play with map contacts on whilst learning it, as it will help to provide positive feedback that you are doing things properly. There's no reason that you have to turn map contacts off, it's entirely up to you. If you do though... it's both easy any hard. It becomes a bit of a mental challenge... you have a mental image of what the convoy is doing and when it doesn't plot the same way then you start to doubt your measurements. Add in RSRD, where the convoys and single targets zigzag and try to track a fast convoy that changes speed and course and you're looking at some head scratchiung moments.

A ship changes course and speed with RSRD with map contacts on and you know immediately. With map contacts off, then three minutes after it changing course and speed you aren't sure it has, but you suspect something and then six minutes later you know.

Sorry for the long response, I don't have time to make it shorter at the moment.

thanks
 

that was quite a response. very detailed and helpful. Much appreciated.

Just fire away with the questions and I'll do my best to answer them. :DL

Does the target get lost if it goes on the other side of an island?

Still looking for a chance to play with this. Maybe after this month is over I'll get a chance.

Nope, I've never seen it affect it. Just the same with sonar - you can hear ships through land. :88). The 3D waves do affect it though. If the radar antennae can't 'see' the target ship, then you don't get a pip. It's quite well modelled in that respect.

Update:

I am working on the TDC part of the tutorial. I don't want to frig with you guys, but once the bulb comes on and you get it working it is amazing.

Suffice it to say i just got a perfect kill... 5 torps all hitting exactly where they should have without even doing a plot. Only using the radar and TDC to adjust your position and speed to put yourself in firing position.

The poor SOB never even suspected I was there because I had a perfect solution running and then submerged before he even came into sight! Never even had to put up the scope!

Be patient with me so I can get this done right. Trust me... it's worth the wait!

JCC

ps Here's the results...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/pict...pictureid=2583