I guess you must have missed some then.... actually there are quite some interesting documentations base on historical facts that tell otherwise.

Yes I forgot! The Nazis were quite good at burning people, weren't they? Thanks for bolstering my case.

And of course you pretend otherwise but you know that my case is that the Nazis were not patriotic Germans. They were parasites, working to the destruction of what they falsely claimed to love. Patriotism toward the United States, Finland, Canada or Uganda is unnecessary to see that fact.

America didn't claim to be better than the Germans and Japanese, the Germans and Japanese said so. And they were right. For the first time in history the victors of war did not exploit their rightful conquest. Instead the United States picked its erstwhile enemies up off their feet, helped them form true patriotic governments, financed their recovery and walked away, leaving two nations that can hold their heads up with pride as the equal of the United States or any country in the world. Damn right I'm proud of that. It has never been done before. It may never be possible again.

World War II was against deviant governments, not the German and Japanese people. Yes, many of those relatively innocent people had to die, but war is not about whether innocent people die, but WHOSE innocent people die. Let the record show that the Nazis killed millions of innocent Germans before we and the British did.

Germany won World War II in the only way possible. By losing. I'm afraid you also are hopelessly outclassed.

Funny,
I'm Dutch, and I happen to live in the US. I don't have the"America is better than you" feeling.
I have studied both sides of the submarine war in WW2. Coming from Europe I had better access to Atlantic war material than Pacific war stuff. Living overhere and being involved with the USS Cod I have better access to US subamrine material.
And, I still find that technically spoken, the Fleetsubmarine was better than anything the Germans brought to the Atlantic, or to the Pacific.

If you read my posts to the forum on this topic, than you will also read that it took the US only minor upgrades to get the Fleetsubmarines that were used during WW2 to the XXI level.
This is something that would never have been possible if the design of the Fleetsub hadn't been so good.There was no nation in the world that could modify their running subs to something close to the XXI. Not the Sovjets, not the British, not the Dutch and certainly not the French. The other nations, like Norway, started running VIIC's after the war (example; the U995 at Laboe).


You also, obviously, didn't read the explanation I gave for the use of German technology by the US (and Sovjets etc.) after the war. Again, it is better, and cheaper, if you use already designed, readily available technology than going through the whole process yourself.

For example; If you look at all the footage available of the A4 rocket (aka V2), then you see a lot of experiments going wrong. Even when the Germans were firing V2 rockets from The Hague (in the Netherlands) the whole area of surrounding houses was obliterated by premature explosions of the rockets.
Having the guy that built them, tested them, improved them and made them run was priceless for the US. It gave them the advantage over the Sovjets at that time. Had Werner von Braun been captured by the Sovjets, you and I would probaly have spoken Russian, with our motherlanguages as an underrated second language...
That the US purged the SS archives from certain records can only been seen in that context. The Sovjets were far more a threat after the war, than having to send, and lose a very valuable man. That's politics, and politicians are not always known for their tact...
By the way, still living in Germany are several lower ranking SS war criminals from foreign nationality, that are deemed to 'sickly' to hand over to justice. Those guys didn't have any mercy when it came to the sickly when they pulled the trigger...politics...

groetjes, and sleep well

All I know is I certainly wish I had an SD/SJ radar system on my Type IX boat in SHIII. But then the Allies could counter this with radar detection and force the convey to coarse correct and send a few aircraft and destroyers my way. The Brits usually have a quick counter to everything.

Certainly in the Pacific theatre SD and SJ have proven very effective and invaluable for me in SHIV. Makes intercepting and setting up an ambush a breeze.

Overall I confess the fleet boats with the electronic warfare technology and larger number of torpedoes are starting to spoil me, but there will always be a spot in my heart for my Type IX U-boat.

About five years ago, a Japanese Television station came to the USS Cod Submarine Memorial to shoot a documentary about "Why Japan lost in the Pacific".
They claimed it was due to the SD radar that the US had an overwhelming advantage over the Japanese. Since the Japanese subhunters had virtually nothing even close to detect them, it was felt by them to be the major reason why Japan lost so many ships.

Fun fact is that the US skippers weren't aware of this. Especially in the beginning of the SD radar they used it almost sporadically. The general thought was that the Japanese could detect them easily. This was not the case, but the mere thought made them very cautious.
When SH4 was developed we had a discussion about this fact. But how do you build a thought into a game...

groetjes,

Germany and Japan were rebuilt not out of the kindness of our hearts but out of sheer necessity. Before Stalin started saber rattling with the west Germany was held down to a very low standard of living. And the plan was to keep them there for quite some time. But the specter of Communism made the western Europeans nervous so plans changed and Germans were needed again to face that Communism and buy time for the rest of the west to mobilize. Japan and Germany were Buffers to Stalins expansionist plans.

"Let the records show that the Nazi's killed millions of Innocent Germans before we did." -Rockin Robbins

Seriously? What kind of revisionism is that? That fits right along with the Nazi's were trying to take over the world garbage. Ever heard of Propaganda? The Nazi's did not kill Millions of innocent Germans. The Nazi's were not a controlling 10% either. While most Germans were not members of the Nazi party the majority of them were for it!

For being opposed to a regime that destroyed free thinking you seem pretty set and locked on to the idea of painting everything in WWII with one brush. We good they Bad. We weren't always good or right in that war and they weren't always bad. But this isn't about my atrocity isn't as big as there atrocity. Its a bout realistic, Subjective History. The war is over so lets all stop taking it so personal and shoving our emotional responses forward without the use of cohesive thought to back it up.:stare:

Unfortunately it was not that simple. The Nazis are still the perfect example what happens when you mix patriotism, extreme nationalism and a quite disturbed (from a humanist point of view) ideology together and use than concoction as a political foundation. Unfortunately they happened to be at the wrong place at the right time as they managed to relieve the pressure caused by the world economic crisis... who cared by that time that all measures taken were in the end preparations for war?

Actually the Marshal Plan just financed Germany... Germany at least can feel lucky that the alternative, the Morgenthau plan never was incepted. However the US and the other western Allies didn't just walk away... The idea behind a highly industrialised western Germany was having a first line bulwark against the eastern block. Furthermore the Americans walked away from 1990 onward as no formal peace treaty was signed. Until then, western Germany was nothing more than occupied territory with the advantage of having been granted some degree of political autonomy.

Oh well... the nature of war brings out the inhuman sides of all involved. At least the terror bombing campaigns on Tokio, Cologne, Hamburg and Dresden (and of countless other larger cities) proved one thing: it did not quite help in breaking morale

Germany won World War II in the only way possible. By losing. I'm afraid you also are hopelessly outclassed.[/quote]

I don't see myself as outclassed as I still retain the dignity of sticking to historical facts, which is my duty as historian. Your are quite correct with the former statement though.

In that I just wish the US would have decided earlier to act.

You know, the funny thing is that 90% of the Americans didn't even want to get involved in WW2 (and that was still in 1941). Earlier there were even some American stating admiration for Nazi Germany publicly and in front of cameras (wasn't grandpa Bush actually trading with them?).

It took Pearl Harbor and the undeclared war of Japan in the Pacific to get the US moving and even then, many including greater parts of the government were unwilling to fight in Europe. Lucky for the Allies and especially UK that Germany had the courteousness of making that decision by declaring war on the US.

Time out chair period. :03: