interesting... hehe

glad to see all the guys from sh3 over here, i can't wait!

Woh, let's nip this one in the bud quickly, LOL! I am merely a spectator over here...a player only.

Although of course I will continue development of JSGME, just as soon as I tie off some remaining SH3 commitments.

Doh had my hopes up there for a SH4Commander Jaesen
Tease

I second that .

KL(mostly for KL) and all,

What is written here my offend and you might look on aghast but here it is....



There is only one thing I do prematurely and it does not include locking threads. Thanks for the help.

You are correct.

This was expected. The add-on kind of took everyone in that general direction. Thanks for pointing that out. A large U-boat on the load screen for the add on was indicative of this.


Same feeling others get with GWX and SH3. Anyone see NYGM lately? Remember the code. Looks innocent on the surface...but it is anything but. You understood my feelings on that over a year ago. Modders being summarily dismissed if not cooperating on the "turf"...ie, Racerboy(I still think there is a candle light vigil awaiting his return), OLC in a heated thead wanting to use a GWX file. If I remember correctly, he did not need it anyway. Markshot, looking to understand the files was summarily dismissed by the GWX crew. His sig now reads, "will not post because possible bullying/attack. Go look him up in the captains roster. I do not think he has posted in a month. Nice job.


Yes you do, there is no way around that. But, with that said I refer back to OLC and his desire to use a file. You dangled it in front of him like a carrot I think about 4 pages worth on that thread. Lucky for him and the rest of the members GUI was created. What a nice mod.


I have no issue with anyone. Both Privateer and Ref are standup guys(truely). However, I disagree with the hand being slapped back. I have witnessed much the same from GWX. Refer to the above.

The uncooperative aspect stems from the refered to Racerboy, OLC and Markshot. There are others. Again, all brought forthwith from the installation of the modders code. As far as readmes, virtually no one reads them and I think this is the grass roots to the often used 'RFM'.

No one is shocked. What is shocking is a thread a day or so ago a member from AOTD popped in and asked to share notes with you. You blew him off. I did not see any reply. He is a guy way ahead of the game and he receives no replay. Ref finally responded to the guy. I believe it was Hitman who found a thread in a forum a month ago thinking it was someone looking to steal mods and make a addon for profit. It was all misconstrued. It was AOTD. They opened the book and said they were modding SH4 for the Atlantic come on over and see what we got. Here is the link. Very interesting I would say. But I'm just a simpleton moderator at best.

Furthermore, RDP,Hitman and myself constantly post and ask that things stop and threads get back on track. We are summarily dismissed by the GWX team, the crew, Ducimus and anyone else who chime in. Our posts to cease and desist are jumped and the all continue on their merry way beating the keyboard to death. Here too, I see were you feel you must advise a lock is coming premeturely. We, as moderators, are very sorry to be nothing but idiots who need not be paid any attention.

The basic premise here is other modders who have been working on SH4 since day one with all it's bugs(kindly worked out for you) feel that being put on the back burner as GWX has moved in is wrong. I can see where they feel this way. Alas, we must remember that this will(mark my words) will be two pronged no matter how you cut it. Uboats will go one way and Fleets the other way. It is inevitable. Other members are walking through the forums with blinders on and see only GWX. This is the issue. I think a few of the crew have said "atta boy" to a few of the modders in SH4. For that I thank them. All they ask is some acknowlegment and do not wish to have a mod war. You will find that no one in the SH4 mod forum has been beaten to death, denied or otherwise made to look stupid if they asked to use a mod. In fact, I have never seen such cooperation. These modder are asking the cooperation goes forward as it has been for over a year. Yes, SH4 has been out over a year. Just as you busted you tail over 2 years, these fellas have been at it also. So, is it wrong for them to be a bit defensive? GWX crew is very defensive and I see it everytime someone says something against their liking. The crew circles and destroys. This is what I read day after day.


Please feel free to rip into anything I have stated. No changing colors like a lizard. Have at it. Much to my chagrine, I'm really at my wits end with it all. Particularly when a member post a moderator might close a thread prematurely but I'm going to get my licks in before that happens. None of the moderators are your tools to use as you wish.

Enjoy your day.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=36

37 minutes after CaptainNemo posted

Yes, I stated that in my post one of the crew responded. The offer was dismissed by KL. Read that part again and quote the whole thought.

AVG, I can only address a few things you've stated as I am cancelling needed sleep again. (We've been getting our tails kicked at my RL job.)

...so I suppose that when people get nasty with us that we continue cooperating or remain impassive regardless?

AVG, I did not mean to imply that the moderators are idiots... but what we have seen is plain and simple fatigue and disinterest with the 'issues' cause threads to be locked instead of finding resolution.

I think your response is heavy with fatigue.

I feel rotten about the OLC incident... and for quite some time now, I've given him full cooperation with his modding wishes as a sort of penance.. Infact I sent him links to a late GWX 2.1 beta to facilitate his efforts following our final release... as a sort of penance. (Ask him if I did so.) He and I have since spoken on a number of occasions on TS for the sake of ensuring compatability.

Racerboy took a meter and expected the mile... My reaction to him... was the TEAM's reaction... not only my own. You cannot personalize it to being "Kpt. Lehmann's" sole reaction. Every element of that occasion was channeled to the team first.

Markshot posted his opinions, and subsequently got upset when we scrutinized his methodology.

I didn't respond to the AOTD representative's thread because I can only be in one place at a time. Between 60-65 hours per week at my RL job, school, and clinical rotations... I have to prioritize my time... leaving many things unanswered for a time. That's life... not me blowing someone off. No one here pays my rent or puts fuel in my car. Not responding to a post is not the same as DISMISSING it.. and quite a few things get channeled through the team first. Captain Nemo's offer would naturally be one of those things that requires a bit of discussion.

Regarding cooperation, you are not able to comment without conjecture, on how much or how little we've done to assist others external to the team. You are infact oblivious to it because you are not privy to team communications. We do so privately. We don't ring church bells when we do such things.

You responded to my post before it was complete. I've tried as hard as I know how to calmly post an open and honest reason in a nut shell, why we have done things a certain way... and you have dismissed it.

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, if I am the ogre that you'd like to paint... the Grey Wolves mod would never have seen the light of day. (or at least would be under some other name and some other team leader)

You guys do on occasion make snap decisions because you only get the part of the picture you can see... or because you sense a temperature change.

I can understand being tired of all the crap. I can't describe how tired I am of it myself.

The thing is guys, is as Privateer stated. We are not going away. We've developed a system that works... and actually produces. Big stuff frightens people sometimes when they don't understand all the bits that go with it.

If that system is significantly changed... the project will cease to exist.

If some feel that the project has gotten too big... they will continue to feel that way. Not a darn thing we can do about that. What some will describe as malicious... we may feel is simply defending our honor.

Bottom line though. If you don't like what we produce... don't use it. If you can't stand us... don't read our posts. Nothing we can do will take away your interests or free will... or vice versa. Given these thoughts... It seems to me that it would be rather easy to be philisophical about it ALL. Besides, this kind of discussion was bound to happen sooner or later.

Cheers for now.

<zips up bunker coat>

Oh yeah sorry

37 minutes=finally

And when did KL blow him off ?
What because he didnt reply
No secret KL is stepping down from GWX due to RL
Ref already answered Capt Nemo

Secret to me. No matter, again, I stated one of the crew replied. KL did not. As the TEAM LEADER....I would reply. But that is just me.

Ah, all the other thoughts posted there and this is the sole one you have issue with? Amazing:hmm:

Not the sole one but you directed your post elsewhere

I could go on but theres no point debating with you is there
We all know which side your loyalties lie on

Meh

:zzz:

Fair enough on all counts. With exception of the last, "you responded before it was complete". Second time I have seen this and suspect it is part part of your sig. Might be wrong. There is one issue however and it is the "privy to team communications". Some do not like that. They feel files created by others are being used and sold as GWX's own. This is all I can say. RFB is an open forum. Help yourself. Nothing to hide, nothing privy. Sometimes church bells are good. I do see church bells from the crew in their threads. Bits and pieces. One in particular concerned the planes being added. That thread turned into the Sisten Chapel of bells. But, that is good for the community. It helps satisfy their wants and desires. Also knowing something good is coming. And speaking for myself, it is always is good if it is coming from the GWX Team. I can not deny that at all.

As far as responding with fatique....yep, this thing has gone on long enough. It is tiresome to say the least. Again, the fellas in SH4 want an atta boy and do not want to be brushed off to the side. They prefer the PTO. They do not want to be put in the corner. In good faith, the made the PTO compatible with the new 1.5 uboat add on. They really did not have to. This could have stopped at patch 1.4 much like SH3 did. But the persist and have a want/desire to please the uses but also want the users to be a part of it as well....hence the bell ringing and hey, give this beta a go.

Thank you for responding and hope you see the point these fellas are attempting to make. In this world of sour crap, no need to come to Subsim were it is a release for most and endure more bitterness. Help and be helped.

Your posts are very telling...specifically, 'loyalties' there in lies the problem....us verses them...and I'm darn sure coming out on top to boot. Circle the wagons boys. This is how I read your post. It is our hope that this "loyalties" you have posted stops at the doorstep of SH4. Mod war and loyalties are not wanted. Please leave the loyalties at the door along with your shoes...we are attempting to keep a clean house. Your are bolstering the mod war with response like this. Hence my response a few post back that would upset or make you aghast. I detect you are upset because you do not see how the thread progress as I. For that, I'm truly sorry. KL has posted and his post is fair in all respects with exception of one that I responed to. I let it rest between he and I because 65 hours a week working sucks. Been there and done it.

I understand this is your baby and like parents, they defend their babies. No fault there.

It is not a matter of not liking what you produce. It is a grand mod in all aspects and I speak truth on this matter. What the SH4 modders do not want happen is SH4 turning into a 100% uboat sim and the SH4 mod forum to be nothing but Uboats. They want to share the forum as brothers who have an interest in submersible. No us verses them. Many have waited for years for a PTO sim. Here it is....6 months later, here is a uboat add on. Back to square on as they thought but in all reality....the PTO goes on! So, all of this is really senseless to be sure. Anyway, you are correct, discussion on this matter need to be brought to the table. Thanks for and listening. I hope I have given the general consensus on what the modders in SH4 feeling at the moment. I believe you do as you also defend you honor as much as they want to defend theirs.


Same to you as you are looking at 65 hours next week. :x arrrrhhhhhgggg that sucks.


Oh shoot, edit here, I guess you get timed out when posting. Very odd. I do not know of anyone else that happens too. Anyway, now I understand your last sentence about hanging on before I get timed out. It was not my intention to start beating my keyboard before you were finished.

Just a request. Would you mind quoting my entire post instead of pulling bits out of context?

It really can change the meaning of what I wrote.:-?

g'nite all