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-   -   Did you ever think about it? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=101784)

mr chris 12-17-06 03:55 PM
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.

_Seth_ 12-17-06 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Its ok, mate. I belive those rules have been invented because of earlier situations (WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Bosnia and so on). I also understand that Subwolf had family members who were lost during WWII. In the light of those events i can understand his rage. I can also understand those who dont agree with him. I know that you, mr chris, and alot of other people here are rational and intelligent people, but the topic thats beeing discusses is a fragile one. We can ask ourselves: Was the crew of the German uboats heroes? Like: Was the hijackers who crashed into WTC heroes? Some say they are, some say not. Its a matter of "point of view".
I spend 4 years in the Norwegian army, but i didnt realise what the army was all about until i quit. We learned that the true heroes was the one that went beyond the call of duty, doing more than anyone could demand from them. Today when i look outside my window, i see heroes everywere. I see people with handicap, that smiles to the world like there is nothing wrong. I see someone giving a hug to another human, or helping an old lady cross the street. In my opinion, thats the REAL heroes in todays world. Let us learn form history, instead of letting it destroy us. The rest of our life starts right......NOW. Live it.:up:

AS 12-17-06 04:18 PM
Hi all,

I donīt know about how many Germans were fanatics and how many werenīt, but i want to tell you guys something about me and my parents. iīm German, which means there are enough people in the world who are prejudiced against me for my being German. I understand them, itīs an abstract way to associate me with WW2, and although Iīve got nothing to do with it at all itīs only human that some people think about it that way.

Hereīs what I have to do wtih WW2:

My Mom was born in 1939, the year when WW2 began. She was a little child, five years old, and all she remembers was that there were night attacks almost ervery night (her home town, Aachen, was almost completely destroyed). Her father was about 20 years, much younger than me now, he was a soldier, but he didnīt like the Nazis. When he spoke his mind he and some fellows were sent to certain death in an impossible mission (they called it "Himmelfahrtskommando", which alludes to the an operation that you wouldnīt survive).

My momīs mother, a quite simple "working class" woman without any political knowledge or ambition, had to hide in the cellar or in a nearby shelter. One day, when they got out of the shelter, they saw that their house had been destroyed by bombs. They fled to Belgium. When war was over, US soldiers came and gave my 5 year old mom chocolate and chewing gum. Thatīs what my mom has to do with WW2 and the Nazis.

My father is a Hungarian. The Soviets made the Hungarians fight against Germany. My father was lucky enough to be a radio-operator far off the front, so he wasnīt actually involved in the war and he didnīt kill anyone.

Me, I was born in Cologne, Germany, in 1973. I do know a lot about German history, but I was born 28 years after the end of WW2. I was lucky enough to speak to real U-Boat men. When I talked to them I was 9 or ten and they were 70 or 80. They are all dead now. Although they were old men when I talked to them and war had been over for 50 years, they only reluctantly talked about their experiences. One of them refused to talk about it at all, another one started to cry like a child when he remembered the sailors of the merchants that died in the ocean.

Today, there are almost no eye-witnesses of WW2 left. Today, Germany is a very tolerant, liberal and multicultural society. Sadly, Germany is so neurotic about her past, that she has tended to left-wing politics for years now, which means we lost our common sense and made Germany a society so tolerant that we even looked away when Muslim radicals planned their evil deeds in Germany while being supported by our exaggerated welfare state. Thatīs the way mankind has always been - they go from one extremity to the other one. All in all Iīm quite optimistic, though, that Germany will find its role in Europe and turn back to common sense. Although far from being perfect, itīs a country that I wouldnīt leave. I like my country, although I do criticise our politicians (but who doesnīt?), and I like living here, but Iīm not an uncritical patriot.

Cheers, AS

mr chris 12-17-06 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Its ok, mate. I belive those rules have been invented because of earlier situations (WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Bosnia and so on). I also understand that Subwolf had family members who were lost during WWII. In the light of those events i can understand his rage. I can also understand those who dont agree with him. I know that you, mr chris, and alot of other people here are rational and intelligent people, but the topic thats beeing discusses is a fragile one. We can ask ourselves: Was the crew of the German uboats heroes? Like: Was the hijackers who crashed into WTC heroes? Some say they are, some say not. Its a matter of "point of view".
I spend 4 years in the Norwegian army, but i didnt realise what the army was all about until i quit. We learned that the true heroes was the one that went beyond the call of duty, doing more than anyone could demand from them. Today when i look outside my window, i see heroes everywere. I see people with handicap, that smiles to the world like there is nothing wrong. I see someone giving a hug to another human, or helping an old lady cross the street. In my opinion, thats the REAL heroes in todays world. Let us learn form history, instead of letting it destroy us. The rest of our life starts right......NOW. Live it.:up:
I full agree with what you say there mate but just because SW lost some family in WWII it does not give him the right to have such a disregard for cillivan life. Im sure the are many people out there that lost family members in wars through the ages, But im sure a very small percentage think like SW.

melnibonian 12-17-06 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Its ok, mate. I belive those rules have been invented because of earlier situations (WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Bosnia and so on). I also understand that Subwolf had family members who were lost during WWII. In the light of those events i can understand his rage. I can also understand those who dont agree with him. I know that you, mr chris, and alot of other people here are rational and intelligent people, but the topic thats beeing discusses is a fragile one. We can ask ourselves: Was the crew of the German uboats heroes? Like: Was the hijackers who crashed into WTC heroes? Some say they are, some say not. Its a matter of "point of view".
I spend 4 years in the Norwegian army, but i didnt realise what the army was all about until i quit. We learned that the true heroes was the one that went beyond the call of duty, doing more than anyone could demand from them. Today when i look outside my window, i see heroes everywere. I see people with handicap, that smiles to the world like there is nothing wrong. I see someone giving a hug to another human, or helping an old lady cross the street. In my opinion, thats the REAL heroes in todays world. Let us learn form history, instead of letting it destroy us. The rest of our life starts right......NOW. Live it.:up:
I full agree with what you say there mate but just because SW lost some family in WWII it does not give him the right to have such a disregard for cillivan life. Im sure the are many people out there that lost family members in wars through the ages, But im sure a very small percentage think like SW.
True MrChris:up: :up: :up:

Thankfully there are still people like you, AS and others who do think straight and are not fanatics. :yep: :yep:

melnibonian 12-17-06 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AS
Hi all,

I donīt know about how many Germans were fanatics and how many werenīt, but i want to tell you guys something about me and my parents. iīm German, which means there are enough people in the world who are prejudiced against me for my being German. I understand them, itīs an abstract way to associate me with WW2, and although Iīve got nothing to do with it at all itīs only human that some people think about it that way.

Hereīs what I have to do wtih WW2:

My Mom was born in 1939, the year when WW2 began. She was a little child, five years old, and all she remembers was that there were night attacks almost ervery night (her home town, Aachen, was almost completely destroyed). Her father was about 20 years, much younger than me now, he was a soldier, but he didnīt like the Nazis. When he spoke his mind he and some fellows were sent to certain death in an impossible mission (they called it "Himmelfahrtskommando", which alludes to the an operation that you wouldnīt survive).

My momīs mother, a quite simple "working class" woman without any political knowledge or ambition, had to hide in the cellar or in a nearby shelter. One day, when they got out of the shelter, they saw that their house had been destroyed by bombs. They fled to Belgium. When war was over, US soldiers came and gave my 5 year old mom chocolate and chewing gum. Thatīs what my mom has to do with WW2 and the Nazis.

My father is a Hungarian. The Soviets made the Hungarians fight against Germany. My father was lucky enough to be a radio-operator far off the front, so he wasnīt actually involved in the war and he didnīt kill anyone.

Me, I was born in Cologne, Germany, in 1973. I do know a lot about German history, but I was born 28 years after the end of WW2. I was lucky enough to speak to real U-Boat men. When I talked to them I was 9 or ten and they were 70 or 80. They are all dead now. Although they were old men when I talked to them and war had been over for 50 years, they only reluctantly talked about their experiences. One of them refused to talk about it at all, another one started to cry like a child when he remembered the sailors of the merchants that died in the ocean.

Today, there are almost no eye-witnesses of WW2 left. Today, Germany is a very tolerant, liberal and multicultural society. Sadly, Germany is so neurotic about her past, that she has tended to left-wing politics for years now, which means we lost our common sense and made Germany a society so tolerant that we even looked away when Muslim radicals planned their evil deeds in Germany while being supported by our exaggerated welfare state. Thatīs the way mankind has always been - they go from one extremity to the other one. All in all Iīm quite optimistic, though, that Germany will find its role in Europe and turn back to common sense. Although far from being perfect, itīs a country that I wouldnīt leave. I like my country, although I do criticise our politicians (but who doesnīt?), and I like living here, but Iīm not an uncritical patriot.

Cheers, AS
Sir you have my full respect:up: :up:

What you say is totally correct. I couldn't express it better myself:up: :up:

mr chris 12-17-06 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melnibonian
Quote:
Originally Posted by AS
Hi all,

I donīt know about how many Germans were fanatics and how many werenīt, but i want to tell you guys something about me and my parents. iīm German, which means there are enough people in the world who are prejudiced against me for my being German. I understand them, itīs an abstract way to associate me with WW2, and although Iīve got nothing to do with it at all itīs only human that some people think about it that way.

Hereīs what I have to do wtih WW2:

My Mom was born in 1939, the year when WW2 began. She was a little child, five years old, and all she remembers was that there were night attacks almost ervery night (her home town, Aachen, was almost completely destroyed). Her father was about 20 years, much younger than me now, he was a soldier, but he didnīt like the Nazis. When he spoke his mind he and some fellows were sent to certain death in an impossible mission (they called it "Himmelfahrtskommando", which alludes to the an operation that you wouldnīt survive).

My momīs mother, a quite simple "working class" woman without any political knowledge or ambition, had to hide in the cellar or in a nearby shelter. One day, when they got out of the shelter, they saw that their house had been destroyed by bombs. They fled to Belgium. When war was over, US soldiers came and gave my 5 year old mom chocolate and chewing gum. Thatīs what my mom has to do with WW2 and the Nazis.

My father is a Hungarian. The Soviets made the Hungarians fight against Germany. My father was lucky enough to be a radio-operator far off the front, so he wasnīt actually involved in the war and he didnīt kill anyone.

Me, I was born in Cologne, Germany, in 1973. I do know a lot about German history, but I was born 28 years after the end of WW2. I was lucky enough to speak to real U-Boat men. When I talked to them I was 9 or ten and they were 70 or 80. They are all dead now. Although they were old men when I talked to them and war had been over for 50 years, they only reluctantly talked about their experiences. One of them refused to talk about it at all, another one started to cry like a child when he remembered the sailors of the merchants that died in the ocean.

Today, there are almost no eye-witnesses of WW2 left. Today, Germany is a very tolerant, liberal and multicultural society. Sadly, Germany is so neurotic about her past, that she has tended to left-wing politics for years now, which means we lost our common sense and made Germany a society so tolerant that we even looked away when Muslim radicals planned their evil deeds in Germany while being supported by our exaggerated welfare state. Thatīs the way mankind has always been - they go from one extremity to the other one. All in all Iīm quite optimistic, though, that Germany will find its role in Europe and turn back to common sense. Although far from being perfect, itīs a country that I wouldnīt leave. I like my country, although I do criticise our politicians (but who doesnīt?), and I like living here, but Iīm not an uncritical patriot.

Cheers, AS
Sir you have my full respect:up: :up:

What you say is totally correct. I couldn't express it better myself:up: :up:
Yep totaly spot on.:up: :up:

Jimbuna 12-17-06 04:33 PM
Quote:
I cant believe that there is as naive people in the world as you are, sir.

You gotta remember, that the Germans were humiliated in the WWI. Of course the people were fanatic, that they had now a chance to revenge that. Much like the Americans are fanatic about the war on terrorism.

Oh and how did they ask for their cities to be bombed? By starting the war? Well, USA attacked Iraq, so itīs ok to bomb USA cities now?

Ban me if you want, but you , sir, are a F u c k i n g a s s h o l e.
Quote:
I'm sorry Seth but SW is a narrow minded fool who does not know what he is talking about.
There is a distinct difference between the SS and the Wehrmacht and to say that civilians deserved what they got is bang out of order :down:
Quote:
It's all well and good not agreeing with someone else's point of view.

No matter what there is no excuse for targeting civilians/innocents, whatever allegiance they take.

Attitudes like this we're the start/basis of the Nazi regime. It's always nice being on the winning side.

You sir are a ~@#'??! and I hope ~~@ ?*%Ģ":x
Quote:
Spot on Dowly narrow minded people like Subwolf have not got the first idea of what war is like. Subwolf please go and take your face for a S H I T
Quote:
Sure, I keep it civil. As long as that nutsack learns to respect human life. What he said could be considered as a racism, the same thing if someone says he hates blacks and would like to see them all dead. Same fracking thing.
Quote:
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Well said fellow kaleuns...I don't think there's much to add really :nope: ...apart from......."GET BACK UNDER YER ROCK AND READ UP ON HUMANITY A LITTLE!!" :yep:

_Seth_ 12-17-06 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Its ok, mate. I belive those rules have been invented because of earlier situations (WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Bosnia and so on). I also understand that Subwolf had family members who were lost during WWII. In the light of those events i can understand his rage. I can also understand those who dont agree with him. I know that you, mr chris, and alot of other people here are rational and intelligent people, but the topic thats beeing discusses is a fragile one. We can ask ourselves: Was the crew of the German uboats heroes? Like: Was the hijackers who crashed into WTC heroes? Some say they are, some say not. Its a matter of "point of view".
I spend 4 years in the Norwegian army, but i didnt realise what the army was all about until i quit. We learned that the true heroes was the one that went beyond the call of duty, doing more than anyone could demand from them. Today when i look outside my window, i see heroes everywere. I see people with handicap, that smiles to the world like there is nothing wrong. I see someone giving a hug to another human, or helping an old lady cross the street. In my opinion, thats the REAL heroes in todays world. Let us learn form history, instead of letting it destroy us. The rest of our life starts right......NOW. Live it.:up:
I full agree with what you say there mate but just because SW lost some family in WWII it does not give him the right to have such a disregard for cillivan life. Im sure the are many people out there that lost family members in wars through the ages, But im sure a very small percentage think like SW.
Right on, Mr chris. Dont misunderstand me.. I dont think he has such disregard as he claims. War is brutal, and war is H*ll. But he is entitled to have his opinion, no matter how sick or disturbed it is. As long as its frontet in rational and mature ways. I do NOT support attacks on civilians (not attacks at all...Violence is a bad thing), but im happy to discuss and maybe convince disbeliefers about this issue. We cant go around hating people over something that happend 50 - 60 years ago. Its like som vendetta, and doesnt belong in the modern society.

Edit: Why are we discussing? Wasnt GWX released yesterday....?

HunterICX 12-17-06 04:39 PM
Really Subwolf what you write is just so wrong,

Because in my family there runs German blood (from my moms side)
So you insulted me, but are you sure they desirved it?
Ofcourse they saluted hitler. wouldnt you, if you know if u where against him your head was going to be chopped off. or maybe because after WW1 germany lies in ruins...and someone appears to be there hero?

are you sure the germans civilians desirved to be bombed the crap out of them?
NO! because not all civilians agreed what hitler was doing...my grandmother spit in a Nazi Soldiers face...she almost got herself killed for that one!

Nowhere from my point of view civilians become VALID targets. How fanatic they are with their war leader...the civilians stay untouched...ofcourse thats never the case , in War civilians get a pounding as well. there is no guaranty that as a civilian you are safe on the streets during a War.

if a country goes to war, everyone bears the consecuences. Leaders,Officers, soldiers and civilians everyone suffers casualties. but DONT tell me Subwolf that Civilians desirve to be killed. if you think they do? Then go look for another comunity boy , you dont belong here.

HunterICX

mr chris 12-17-06 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Seth im sorry if my language was harsh but SW has really pissed me off. As you say in your post "no civilian deserves to be a target in a conflict."
I know this more than most as you would not belive some of the rules of engaement we have to abide by in the Biritsh army these days. These rules are there to minimize the number of civilian deaths in war.
Its ok, mate. I belive those rules have been invented because of earlier situations (WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Bosnia and so on). I also understand that Subwolf had family members who were lost during WWII. In the light of those events i can understand his rage. I can also understand those who dont agree with him. I know that you, mr chris, and alot of other people here are rational and intelligent people, but the topic thats beeing discusses is a fragile one. We can ask ourselves: Was the crew of the German uboats heroes? Like: Was the hijackers who crashed into WTC heroes? Some say they are, some say not. Its a matter of "point of view".
I spend 4 years in the Norwegian army, but i didnt realise what the army was all about until i quit. We learned that the true heroes was the one that went beyond the call of duty, doing more than anyone could demand from them. Today when i look outside my window, i see heroes everywere. I see people with handicap, that smiles to the world like there is nothing wrong. I see someone giving a hug to another human, or helping an old lady cross the street. In my opinion, thats the REAL heroes in todays world. Let us learn form history, instead of letting it destroy us. The rest of our life starts right......NOW. Live it.:up:
I full agree with what you say there mate but just because SW lost some family in WWII it does not give him the right to have such a disregard for cillivan life. Im sure the are many people out there that lost family members in wars through the ages, But im sure a very small percentage think like SW.
Right on, Mr chris. Dont misunderstand me.. I dont think he has such disregard as he claims. War is brutal, and war is H*ll. But he is entitled to have his opinion, no matter how sick or disturbed it is. As long as its frontet in rational and mature ways. I do NOT support attacks on civilians (not attacks at all...Violence is a bad thing), but im happy to discuss and maybe convince disbeliefers about this issue. We cant go around hating people over something that happend 50 - 60 years ago. Its like som vendetta, and doesnt belong in the modern society.

Edit: Why are we discussing? Wasnt GWX released yesterday....?
No worries Seth im not missunderstanding you at all mate. :up:

melnibonian 12-17-06 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterICX
Really Subwolf what you write is just so wrong,

Because in my family there runs German blood (from my moms side)
So you insulted me, but are you sure they desirved it?
Ofcourse they saluted hitler. wouldnt you, if you know if u where against him your head was going to be chopped off. or maybe because after WW1 germany lies in ruins...and someone appears to be there hero?

are you sure the germans civilians desirved to be bombed the crap out of them?
NO! because not all civilians agreed what hitler was doing...my grandmother spit in a Nazi Soldiers face...she almost got herself killed for that one!

Nowhere from my point of view civilians become VALID targets. How fanatic they are with their war leader...the civilians stay untouched...ofcourse thats never the case , in War civilians get a pounding as well. there is no guaranty that as a civilian you are safe on the streets during a War.

if a country goes to war, everyone bears the consecuences. Leaders,Officers, soldiers and civilians everyone suffers casualties. but DONT tell me Subwolf that Civilians desirve to be killed. if you think they do? Then go look for another comunity boy , you dont belong here.

HunterICX
True mate true. Spot on:up: :up:

I think we can see from the answers that Mr Subwolf is the minority here. So we either are all Nazis and we don't know it, or with all due respect there is a fault in his line of thinking;)

_Seth_ 12-17-06 04:43 PM
@ mr chris: Puhh...was afraid that my bad english would be misinterpreted..:lol:

mr chris 12-17-06 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
@ mr chris: Puhh...was afraid that my bad english would be misinterpreted..:lol:
Not at all mate we are all cool:up: :up:

_Seth_ 12-17-06 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Seth_
@ mr chris: Puhh...was afraid that my bad english would be misinterpreted..:lol:
Not at all mate we are all cool:up: :up:
Good to hear! If you'll excuse me, i have a patrol out of Jakarta in about..right now!! GWX RULES!!:up::up:


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