Built-In Maneuvering Board

[don1reed]

Some of us have been playing SH3 without the U-boat icon being displayed on the F5 screen with the hope of creating a greater challenge and using real navigation skills, i.e., allowing for a virtual “sextant” positioning by only clicking CNTL-Left mouse button whenever the weather is clear enough to use a sextant while surfaced. We then update our chart with an “x” to mark our position. We do not use this virtual sextant after evening twilight or before morning twilight, as real mariners do/did. You can read more about this interesting challenge at:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost)
However, the reason I’m bringing this up is show another method of determining target speed by using the F5 chart screen as a “maneuvering board” aka MOBOARD.

Given:

Own course: 286° true.
Own speed: 13 kn.

We can represent this info with the use of the compass tool, i.e.,

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6831/1axr0.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1axr0.jpg)


Let the center of the compass tool circle equal your position.
Strike off the radius angle to equal your heading and radius length equal your speed. I use the built-in protractor to measure the angle.

Watch Officer sights a ship BR 071 @ 9700m.

From our position (center of circle) use the ruler tool to mark off the range and bearing. After this, place an “X” at the target ship’s location.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1843/1bqv3.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1bqv3.jpg)

3:15 later, the Watch Officer (when asked) informs us that the target is now BR 78 @ 6500m. Again, use the ruler tool and “X” to display this update.


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9453/1czw1.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1czw1.jpg)


Now, take the compass tool and connect the target ship’s relative movement. Drag this small relative circle by its center to the leading point (speed radius) of our circle. This provides us with the target’s relative heading and speed.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8107/1dsm1.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1dsm1.jpg)

We can now take the ruler tool and draw a line, completing the vector; from our position to the point of the target’s relative speed/heading line…this now displays the target’s TRUE Course and Speed. C271 S11.6.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5515/1eqh6.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1eqh6.jpg)

[SkvyWvr]

Some of us have been playing SH3 without the U-boat icon being displayed on the F5 screen with the hope of creating a greater challenge and using real navigation skills, i.e., allowing for a virtual “sextant” positioning by only clicking CNTL-Left mouse button whenever the weather is clear enough to use a sextant while surfaced. We then update our chart with an “x” to mark our position. We do not use this virtual sextant after evening twilight or before morning twilight, as real mariners do/did. You can read more about this interesting challenge at:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93937&goto=newpost)
However, the reason I’m bringing this up is show another method of determining target speed by using the F5 chart screen as a “maneuvering board” aka MOBOARD.

Given:

Own course: 286° true.
Own speed: 13 kn.

We can represent this info with the use of the compass tool, i.e.,

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6831/1axr0.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1axr0.jpg)


Let the center of the compass tool circle equal your position.
Strike off the radius angle to equal your heading and radius length equal your speed. I use the built-in protractor to measure the angle.

Watch Officer sights a ship BR 071 @ 9700m.

From our position (center of circle) use the ruler tool to mark off the range and bearing. After this, place an “X” at the target ship’s location.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1843/1bqv3.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1bqv3.jpg)

3:15 later, the Watch Officer (when asked) informs us that the target is now BR 78 @ 6500m. Again, use the ruler tool and “X” to display this update.


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9453/1czw1.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1czw1.jpg)


Now, take the compass tool and connect the target ship’s relative movement. Drag this small relative circle by its center to the leading point (speed radius) of our circle. This provides us with the target’s relative heading and speed.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8107/1dsm1.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1dsm1.jpg)

We can now take the ruler tool and draw a line, completing the vector; from our position to the point of the target’s relative speed/heading line…this now displays the target’s TRUE Course and Speed. C271 S11.6.


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5515/1eqh6.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1eqh6.jpg)

Genius!

[don1reed]

Here's to old salts:up:

[gutted]

maybe i'm missing something.. but what was the point of moving it infront of you.. when you already had his heading and speed plotted?

[don1reed]

The Maneuvering Board method allows you to plot the target(s) using their relative position from one uboat position.

All plotting systems shown thus far in these forums only demonstrate a method that you must plot both the target and the uboat's progress within the timed run ... there is nothing wrong with doing it that way; however, within the military combat control centers (CIC) plotting is accomplished using the MOBOARD method.

What I am trying to illustrate here is that there are other methods available that are more in keeping with history, and especially those who would like to try navigation without the "training wheels" of the waypoint tool and the "moving" U-boat icon, or any ship icon for that matter, on the F5 screen.

Relative movement means that it appears that the target is moving in a particular direction due to the movement of both vessels. The Moboard allows the user to simplify this relative movement via vectors and precisely figure the target's TRUE course and speed. Once computed, the reverse may then be applied with the target placed in the center and then vectors applied to the U-boat to figure distance and speed necessary to make an end round for future attack.

A real MOBOARD looks like this:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3923/85x115090lw5.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=85x115090lw5.jpg)

You can find these for free DL if you wanted to use an off-computer, external method as well.
cheers,

[gutted]

that still doesn't explain why you moved it to where you did.

i just don't get whats going on in your last few steps.

[don1reed]

Ahh, now I understand.

Well as you can see in my example above, both the target and I are roughly travelling in the same direction. When I view the target, his angle on the bow is about 77°. Over the 3.15 minutes run, we got closer to each other. At the start of the run, he was 9700m away, at the end he was 6500m. His relative movement seems to be heading toward me at 3.5kn. This relative movement circle is then dragged to the tip of my heading and speed of 13kn. I then use the ruler tool and draw a line from my position (center of big circle) to the tip of his relative heading/speed and viola, it measures @271° and 11.5 kn., which is his TRUE heading and speed.

This might help as well:

http://www2.ku.edu/~kunrotc/academics/300/Lesson23%20Maneuvering%20Board%20Fundamentals.ppt# 300,1,Lesson 23: Maneuvering Board Fundamentals

Try to get a copy of Pub 217 Maneuvering Board Manual. (I believe it can be DL for free as well)
I hope that helped.

[gutted]

ok, i get it now. thanks

[gutted]

tried it out on the C2 in the torpedo training mission.

i plotted it just like you showed and i missed. so i turned on map contact updates and external views so i could double check my second try. i again missed.. torpedos well ahead of him.

after double checking what i plotted in some empty space and comparing it to his exact known locations (map contact)... i could see my target heading was off by 5 degrees and the speed was off by 2knots (too fast).

basically, i started the mission and immediately went full ahead in periscope depth and turned right about 30 degrees. took two readings of the C2 ~3:15 apart and plotted it in some empty map space (as if i didn't know where i was) just like you showed. on my second try with the aids turned on.. i even got EXACT range readings just to be sure i wasn't at fault with that.

and still i was off.

hmph

[gutted]

tried it 3 more times with map contacts on. everytime the heading and speed is off.

i'm at a loss.

[SkvyWvr]

tried it 3 more times with map contacts on. everytime the heading and speed is off.

i'm at a loss.

Sounds like don1reed needs to send you to OS a school.:D

[don1reed]

I'm curious as to what target speed you came up with?

For sake of arguement, I tried the academy torpedo mission and went after the C2 also...here's what I came up with

My params: C040, S3, Depth 13m. (note: I changed course trying to come parallel with the target)

Target: BR 309 @ 1600m

3:15 later

Target: BR 313 @ 1504m

Targets relative course and speed: C123, S 1.4

Targets TRUE course and speed: C066, S 3.5

I fired two weapons as single shots and both struck MOT.

Here's how the problem works out on a homemade moboard:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3489/1fmg8.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1fmg8.jpg)

Note: if you rely on the Weapons Officer for bearing and range while submerged you may get erroneous results; however, I only use the weapons officer when surfaced and the ranges are much farther out, beyond 5000m.

[flakmonkey]

great method, however my WO only gives me a bearing and not range :(
small prob as i can obviously do that my self but it`d be nice if my watch officer would do it for me!

(flakmonkey... possibly the laziest uboat commanger afloat.)

[TarJak]

great method, however my WO only gives me a bearing and not range :(
small prob as i can obviously do that my self but it`d be nice if my watch officer would do it for me!

(flakmonkey... possibly the laziest uboat commanger afloat.)

You need to ask him nicely!:D

If you click on the watch officer and ask for nearest visual target he will tell you the bearing and range.

[kylania]

If you click on the watch officer and ask for nearest visual target he will tell you the bearing and range.

NYGM 2.2 and other mods have removed the range given by the WO as being "unrealistic" so this method (and dantenoc's wonderful manual targeting tutorial video) won't work with that super mod in place.

[robj250]

The Maneuvering Board method allows you to plot the target(s) using their relative position from one uboat position.

All plotting systems shown thus far in these forums only demonstrate a method that you must plot both the target and the uboat's progress within the timed run ... there is nothing wrong with doing it that way; however, within the military combat control centers (CIC) plotting is accomplished using the MOBOARD method.

What I am trying to illustrate here is that there are other methods available that are more in keeping with history, and especially those who would like to try navigation without the "training wheels" of the waypoint tool and the "moving" U-boat icon, or any ship icon for that matter, on the F5 screen.

Relative movement means that it appears that the target is moving in a particular direction due to the movement of both vessels. The Moboard allows the user to simplify this relative movement via vectors and precisely figure the target's TRUE course and speed. Once computed, the reverse may then be applied with the target placed in the center and then vectors applied to the U-boat to figure distance and speed necessary to make an end round for future attack.

A real MOBOARD looks like this:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3923/85x115090lw5.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=85x115090lw5.jpg)

You can find these for free DL if you wanted to use an off-computer, external method as well.
cheers,

I purchased a pad of these but found them of no use because of the "short" distances they use on the sheet. I did not find it useful for long plotting.

[don1reed]

@Robj250

change the ratio.

the concentric rings can represent 100m, 1000m, etc.

If a target ship is at 14000m, change the distance ratio to 2:1 thereby making the outer ring = 20000m.


FYI
check out the 4 columns, 2 on each side of the circle 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, & 5:1.
Cheers,

[don1reed]

@ Kylania:

... I use 2.2 also...a lot of folks don't use either of the major mods; but, you can still use the above method with the old fashion way of distance = masthead height / tan a.

[robj250]

@Robj250

change the ratio.

the concentric rings can represent 100m, 1000m, etc.

If a target ship is at 14000m, change the distance ratio to 2:1 thereby making the outer ring = 20000m.


FYI
check out the 4 columns, 2 on each side of the circle 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, & 5:1.
Cheers,

Thanks Don, I never even thought of that, pretty stupid of me.

[Dantenoc]

NYGM 2.2 and other mods have removed the range given by the WO as being "unrealistic"

Sometimes the mods are a little "trigger happy" when shooting down SHIII's features... true, they should be nerfed down a bit, but eliminating them altogether errs in the oposite direction. Ubisoft thought that having the watch officer reading of ranges with an error of plus or minus 50 meters was realistic enough. If NYGM 2.2. thought that this was way to precise, then it should have changed this to a margin error of plus or minus 200 meters or more, but making your watch officer blind (or mute, however you want to interpret it) was not the best of solutions.

As to the subject of this thread, wonderfull, simply wonderfull. I'll try this next chance I get :up:

[panthercules]

If NYGM 2.2. thought that this was way to precise, then it should have changed this to a margin error of plus or minus 200 meters or more

Is this actually possible? I haven't loaded up NYGM 2.2 yet (still out on patrol with my old GW 1.0+ install), so I hadn't realized that they eliminated the ability to ask your WO for the range. I have thought (as they apparently did) that it was kinda silly that the WO could seem to give rather precise ranges of ships 10,000m+ way, so I have basically been using the WO's responses to let me know if the target was closing or receding (which I figured that he should be able to tell, whether or not his range numbers were actually correct). It didn't occur to me that there might be a "margin of error" parameter at work in the stock game that might be able to be modded to give a more realistic role for the WO's range reports.

Does anybody know if there is such a parameter and whether you can tweak it?

[Dantenoc]

Probably hard coded... it's behaviour is not of a random error introduced into the range reading, but rather of a "rounding off" of the range number. For example, if the target is 145 meters away, the watch officer will say 100 meters. If it's at 85, hil still say it's 100 meters... In esence, if the guy says that the range is X meters, it might actualy be anywhere in the interval (X-50, X+50].

[jmr]

*arise from the grave my minions*


Pardon the thread necromancy, but don1reed, if you're still around can you check out this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1099183&posted=1#post1099183) regarding using the in game map as a maneuvering board? I'm getting an entirely different result when testing your scenario with Mobo plus your graphic is no longer posted so I'm not sure if I'm replicating your steps properly.

[don1reed]

Hi jmr,

I'm still around but no longer play SH3. My computer will not load SH3, luckily I remain in business with SH4 and it's Uboat Mod.

I'm still trying to repent the error of my ways regarding this post. It was made, unfortunately, before I became aware of Aaronblood's MOBO, which is the best of the best, IMHO.

My errors became manifest when I discovered that my F5 screen was setup on Imperial and my nomograph was/is in metric...for starters :wah:

So...my advice...get a copy of Aaronblood's MOBO and be done with it. :up: