Time to move on.

[bradclark1]

Enjoyed the conversations.

Thanks,
Brad

[ASWnut101]

Leaving? Why?

[Skybird]

Always fair winds! ;)

[Torplexed]

Audieu! :cry:

[sonar732]

Take it easy and hope to see you soon!

[The Noob]

Well...Goodbye then.

What is the reason for you leaving?

[August]

Goodbye Brad. I've enjoyed our debates.

[TteFAboB]

Don't be a stranger, send us a post-card. :D

[kiwi_2005]

huh? Another Brewster in disguise.:lol:

[SimNut]

I'll hold the door, right behind you. I live in a free country and censorship really bothers me.

Been real, been fun, not both.

[MothBalls]

I think it’s my time to bail. This just isn’t a nice place. I’m a decent person and I don’t mean any harm to anyone. I’m always 1st to lend a hand when I can. I think most people around the world are the same way.

If you ever came to my house, you would always be welcome. I wouldn’t care where you were from, what god you believe in or the color of your skin. You’d still be welcome.

In this forum, I feel hated because of the country I live in. The moderators seem to feel it’s socially acceptable to allow American hatred. Why they can’t understand hate is hate, in any form, is beyond me. It doesn’t matter who it’s toward and why, it’s still hatred.

I didn’t make all the decisions that my government made. I personally didn’t start a war. I don’t always agree with my government, but I still have to support them because I live here and I love my country.

All I do is work hard and live a good life the best I can. I didn’t choose to be an American, I was lucky enough to be born here.

Best of luck to all of you and I hope you find peace.

[Sir Big Jugs]

huh? Another Brewster in disguise.:lol:

Brewster who...?:88)

[Gizzmoe]

The moderators seem to feel it’s socially acceptable to allow American hatred.
Umm... We do? :hmm: I don´t think so. Check the Iraq Conflict thread for example, where I´d removed all the anti-American nonsense. Not only because it was OT, but also because it was stupid.

BTW, the amount of hatred is small in this forum, but there´s a lot of criticism. Criticism!=Hatred

[Coda]

Mohballs hit the nail right on the head.



The thing most people don’t understand about the US is liberty and how much it means to us. In the US you can come here from any part of the world and practice any religion you choose, you can voice your opinion about anything you want, you can go anywhere you like at any time, you can enjoy all of the benefits of freedom in peace.

If anyone ever threatened your liberty, I wouldn’t care where you were from; I would stand up and defend your freedoms because I am an American.

MB is right. Americans aren’t welcome here and now is a good a time as any to make a graceful exit.

[The Avon Lady]

Bye, Brad! :oops:

[Sir Big Jugs]

Yes. I agree with both MothBalls and Coda.
This forum is very European dominated, and I have seen, just like all of you, some very rude threads critisizing the USA posted by people who might never have been to the US. The American average person shouldn't be blamed for ANYTHING to do with what his/her government has done. It just isn't their fault! I may be 100% Finnish, but I've lived 1 (almost 1.5) years in the USA and will move there again next July for 2-3 years. That one year there was the best year of my entire life, and I am looking forward to living there again.

http://www.4thfest.org/graphics/flagraising.jpg
PROUD OF ALL AMERICANS, WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THIS WORLD AND WHAT THEY WILL DO IN THE FUTURE.

[Gizzmoe]

It just isn't their fault!
Right, and AFAIK there wasn´t a case here where anyone said that it is the fault of the American people as a whole. Like I said, criticism doesn´t equal hatred. Coda and Mothballs were totally overreacting.

[Sir Big Jugs]

I disagree but don't have time to debate on it ATM, cya in ~9 h when I get back home. If this thread isn't locked by then...

[Sea Demon]

Wow. :o What's happened since I've been away?

Just looking at it, I also tire of the stupidity of the anti-Americanism some take refuge in here. And also the "Bush is Hitler" stuff is rather tiresome also. Another theme that is beyond idiotic is the "America is on the verge of collapse" stuff. There is no intellectualism in any of these things. And I choose to participate in some of these conversations, and others I won't touch. Yet, none of them will stop me from coming here. Subsim is the BEST forum I've ever been apart of.

Despite the fact that there are a few immature trolls here who love to start flaming wars, you still have a choice whether or not you want to be a part of it.

[joea]

I agree the anti-Americanism gets overboard at times, but there are other groups who come in for hatred or shall I say criticism (very strong) as well. :down:

Sorry to see you go Brad.

[SimNut]

The moderators seem to feel it’s socially acceptable to allow American hatred.
Umm... We do? :hmm:I don´t think so. Check the Iraq Conflict thread for example, where I´d removed all the anti-American nonsense. Not only because it was OT, but also because it was stupid.

BTW, the amount of hatred is small in this forum, but there´s a lot of criticism. Criticism!=Hatred
1 thread. The only one, the rest were left to run free.

It just isn't their fault!
Right, and AFAIK there wasn´t a case here where anyone said that it is the fault of the American people as a whole. Like I said, criticism doesn´t equal hatred. Coda and Mothballs were totally overreacting.
Just one reply earlier you said criticism does equal hatred. ?? <look up>

I’m not trying to debate with you or slam you, just get you to take an honest objective look. Take a step back for 1 minute.

It isn’t happening to you, your people, your government, your country, so it isn’t really happening. It does seem to be bothering more than a few people and you just refuse to see it. If you were on the receiving end of it you would see it plain as day.

It’s human nature. When backed into a corner people lose the ability to take an objective view, they take a defensive position and will stand their ground until the end. That’s what is happening here. I hope someday you’ll be able to see anoher viewpoint.

Best of luck to you in the future. I won’t bother you or any of the other good people here any longer.

[Gizzmoe]

1 thread. The only one, the rest were left to run free.

Ok, what should I have done in your opinion? Censor those threads? Or lock them? Tell people via PM to please shut up? Sure, I could have done all that, but apparently I didn´t think those thread were really that bad.

Doing any of these would have been censorship. I have no problem with that, but what would you have thought? :) After all you wrote in another thread: "When one person decides who can talk about what, or how, or when, it ceases to be an open forum. I hate the thought of someone leaning over my shoulder with a padlock. This really, just sucks."

Just one reply earlier you said criticism does equal hatred. ?? <look up>

No, I wrote Criticism!=Hatred. "!=" means "unequal".

It isn’t happening to you, your people, your government, your country, so it isn’t really happening. It does seem to be bothering more than a few people and you just refuse to see it. If you were on the receiving end of it you would see it plain as day.

The receiving end of what exactly? Criticism? War in the ME? Terrorism? Or all of that?

[Skybird]

People who can't make a difference between a people and the policy of the nation they live in, who feel personally offended when one is criticisng a leader or policy, who can't take an argument from others on that there may be a difference between how they wish their country to be and how it really is seen by others, and how a country was once meant by it's founders and constitutional values and how it has changed from that until today, and people who think that this kind of related criticism is automatically general anti-americanism or even hate on American people - still have some thing to learn in life. for example that there is a world beyond america, and that one needs to learn to differ between how one wishes things to be, and how they really are.

Often it its this kind of people who are not shy to silence anything from Germany automatically by saying that Germany better shut up because of it's Nazi past. Or that all French are cowards. And more generalizations.

Over the years I have learned to respect Brad - although we had many harsh words in the beginning, years ago. That's why I mean it honest when wishing him well for farewell. The others who followed him because of all the "injustice" being done to their nation - I already have left alone before. Some of what was said in this thread is just theatralic, and narcistic.

[Gizzmoe]

Yep, couldn´t agree more!

[sonar732]

I'm still trying to find the post that spawned his decision. One minute his debating AL over which administration didn't do enough against terrorism, and the next he's leaving the community.

[The Avon Lady]

I'm still trying to find the post that spawned his decision. One minute his debating AL over which administration didn't do enough against terrorism, and the next he's leaving the community.
The last thing I was discussing with Brad was roasting marshmallows and global warming concerns if and when they burn Ted Kennedy at the stake. :D

[fredbass]

Remember, the only consequence of posts in this forum are basically what kind of an effect they have on you. I guess Brad couldn't handle it. I've been sensored and had posts deleted, but I've learned that it isn't really that important. I find it rather entertaining, challenging and fun to spar with certain misguided individuals. If you can't deal with it then don't. So Brad made that decision. Ok, now go enjoy life while you can.

Good luck pal






From a patriotic U.S. citizen

[Skybird]

I'm still trying to find the post that spawned his decision. One minute his debating AL over which administration didn't do enough against terrorism, and the next he's leaving the community.

I think it was not one special thread or decision alone, but a general makeup of his mind over how things have turned. He has come up with several politcal and congress-related threads recently, usually he did not do that so much himself in times and years before, as far as I remember. I saw it, and saw last days events, and just thought: how long until he will be tired of it? My impression of him is that he does not play endlessly in this style. By guts feeling, I saw it coming, and if I am right with my assumption, I can understand him.

Just my subjective view of "virtual Brad". I could be wrong.

[bradclark1]

Bottom line is that if you don't like it and can't change it, then go elsewhere. We all have that choice.
Thats the decision I made. I feel that if a forum can be moderated on personal dislikes it's no longer fun to be a part of. I can't change it. Neal and Gizzmoe had their say so I have decided to leave.
I honestly can't say I have seen any anti-U.S. threads in a very long time. I have seen anti-Bush or administration threads but thats ok thats what a general topics is for, even if you aren't American. Not to mention I'm way up there in those threads. :D
I have met a lot of of good people and have enjoyed fencing with them. It was fun but it's not fun anymore.
Thank you for the kind words,

Brad

[Skybird]

Take care -it's a zoo out there! :D

[waste gate]

Bottom line is that if you don't like it and can't change it, then go elsewhere. We all have that choice.
Thats the decision I made. I feel that if a forum can be moderated on personal dislikes it's no longer fun to be a part of. I can't change it. Neal and Gizzmoe had their say so I have decided to leave.
I honestly can't say I have seen any anti-U.S. threads in a very long time. I have seen anti-Bush or administration threads but thats ok thats what a general topics is for, even if you aren't American. Not to mention I'm way up there in those threads. :D
I have met a lot of of good people and have enjoyed fencing with them. It was fun but it's not fun anymore.
Thank you for the kind words,

Brad

Well there you go. I hope you voted in the poll B4 you left.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99922

[Gizzmoe]

I feel that if a forum can be moderated on personal dislikes it's no longer fun to be a part of. I can't change it. Neal and Gizzmoe had their say so I have decided to leave.

This forum can´t be moderated on personal likes or dislikes. That would only be possible if Neal allows that and since he isn´t crazy he doesn´t. By the way, any moderator who feels the urge to run his forum this way should immediately quit his job, for he doesn´t want to be a moderator but a dictator.

I´m not saying that all of my moderator actions were always 100% free of bias, but these are extremely rare cases.

[JSLTIGER]

Bye Brad! We'll miss you!

[Gizzmoe]

He´ll come back.

[JSLTIGER]

Is this the part where you post again, saying, "They always come back." ?

[Onkel Neal]

In this forum, I feel hated because of the country I live in. The moderators seem to feel it’s socially acceptable to allow American hatred.

MB is right. Americans aren’t welcome here and now is a good a time as any to make a graceful exit.

When one person decides who can talk about what, or how, or when, it ceases to be an open forum. I hate the thought of someone leaning over my shoulder with a padlock. This really, just sucks.

.....It isn’t happening to you, your people, your government, your country, so it isn’t really happening. It does seem to be bothering more than a few people and you just refuse to see it. If you were on the receiving end of it you would see it plain as day.

One guy decries too much censorship here, another says too much anti-US sentiment (which can only be curbed by censorship). One guy says too much censorship AND too much anti-US stuff.

I hope everyone knows, ya can't please everyone.

[SubTracker69]

What is this all about? I think this Gizzmoe guy should go if so many people on here don't think he is doing a good job. Just my opinion.

[fredbass]

What is this all about? I think this Gizzmoe guy should go if so many people on here don't think he is doing a good job. Just my opinion.

Most people know he's doing just fine, plus noone can replace him anyway, so he'd better stay. :up:

[Gizzmoe]

What is this all about? I think this Gizzmoe guy should go if so many people on here don't think he is doing a good job. Just my opinion.
Hi SubSerpent. Bye SubSerpent. It´s not allowed to circumvent a ban! :)

[Sir Big Jugs]

What is this all about? I think this Gizzmoe guy should go if so many people on here don't think he is doing a good job. Just my opinion.
Hi SubSerpent. Bye SubSerpent. It´s not allowed to circumvent a ban! :)

You re-ban people with a happy face?:down:

You really need an attitude change...:hulk:

[Gizzmoe]

You re-ban people with a happy face?:down:[

It was sooooo obvious that is was him that it was quite funny actually.

[Onkel Neal]

Enjoyed the conversations.

Thanks,
Brad

People come and go, routine Internet forum stuff. I usually do not remark on it but in this case I will say I am sorry to see you go, Brad. You and I are political opposites but I think you made your points with tact. The door is always open.

Regarding comments by Mothballs, Simnut and Coda on anti-US sentiments: Guys, you are not going to find many Americans more patriotic than me. Nevertheless, not everyone shares our view and I generally support the right to free speech, as I am sure you do, so we are going to have to listen to dissenting voices. By general practice, the moderators and admin do suggest that people resist the urge to rant in excess and we discourage posts with no content other than hate. But we Americans will have to put up with "the US is an empire" stuff, I'm afraid, even if we feel it's silly and emotional. Fair tradeoff, I think.

My advice, if you see a post that you think is full of stinky stuff, don't open it :)

[tycho102]

I'm also fairly patriotic. I take issue with a whole damn bunch of government policies, but I still get that chill up the back of my neck when the Star Spangled Banner plays and I consider what it meant for the fort to remain in "rebel" hands (rather than Red Coats).

I came here for the game. I'm still here because of the game. General chat is just interesting, and I have to say I have learned a lot from Avon Lady.

I wish you wouldn't take things quite so seriously, Brad Clark. This *is* an internet forum.

[The Noob]

I already said what i think about Gizzmoe in the "What do you think of Gizzmoes way of moderating?" thread, and it was pro-Gizzmoe.

Now i would like to write down my opinion on the so-called "bashing" threads.

USA people do not want to see their nation bashed. Moderators want to enforce this. Fine. But then, you would have to ban politics from the forum in general. Let's not forget the "Bash ME!" or "Bash N Korea!" threads i've seen, where replys like "Nuke Them!" "Get Them!" or "Shoot Amadinejad!" are nothing special. Most of them posted by USA residents. Compared to that, my so called "Bashing" posts are harmless.

Just my opinion on this.

[Oberon]

Here, a guide for all moderators everywhere...

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

[I-25]

Is it me or is there like a mass exodus in the making?:dead:

[waste gate]

Is it me or is there like a mass exodus in the making?:dead:

No I don't think so. Some folks are putting themselves on self imposed suspension.

They are frustrated and probably just need a break. Understandable.
I wish them all good tidings if they don't return.

Me, I'm a fighter and won't allow one individual or group tell me what my opinion is, and I'll fight to allow others to have their opinion heard.

[SUBMAN1]

Whoaa! I've missed something I see. THe Anti-AMericanism does get out of hand at times, but it is nothing that can't be stamped down with some logic. Did something happen that I didn't notice?

-S

[SUBMAN1]

What is this all about? I think this Gizzmoe guy should go if so many people on here don't think he is doing a good job. Just my opinion.
Most people know he's doing just fine, plus noone can replace him anyway, so he'd better stay. :up:

I wouldn't want to replace him. I don't envy the job. Been a mod, and got stuck modding a shooting forum too, and quite frankly, it takes too much effort at times.

-S

[Fish]

I think it’s my time to bail. This just isn’t a nice place. I’m a decent person and I don’t mean any harm to anyone. I’m always 1st to lend a hand when I can. I think most people around the world are the same way.

If you ever came to my house, you would always be welcome. I wouldn’t care where you were from, what god you believe in or the color of your skin. You’d still be welcome.

In this forum, I feel hated because of the country I live in. The moderators seem to feel it’s socially acceptable to allow American hatred. Why they can’t understand hate is hate, in any form, is beyond me. It doesn’t matter who it’s toward and why, it’s still hatred.

I didn’t make all the decisions that my government made. I personally didn’t start a war. I don’t always agree with my government, but I still have to support them because I live here and I love my country.

All I do is work hard and live a good life the best I can. I didn’t choose to be an American, I was lucky enough to be born here.

Best of luck to all of you and I hope you find peace.

Critic, not hate.

[Sea Demon]

Is this thing still alive? :roll: OK, people have chosen to leave. I hate to sound harsh, but enough of the drama. Close the thread and let's move on.

[Sea Demon]

Critic, not hate.

I'm sure there are plenty of things I can find about the Netherlands for example, which warrant daily criticism, and which could make your daily visit here unpleasant. But I digress, sir.

Criticism is one thing. Daily harping, and daily repetitive anti-USA propaganda is another. ;) I'm not saying stop. Say what you will. Just know that I wonder if your knickers would get a little twisted if the tables were turned on you, and you had to listen to how stupid and evil the people of the Netherlands were on a daily unrelenting basis.

[waste gate]

Critic, not hate.

I'm sure there are plenty of things I can find about the Netherlands for example, which warrant daily criticism, and which could make your daily visit here unpleasant. But I digress, sir.

Criticism is one thing. Daily harping, and daily repetitive anti-USA propaganda is another. ;) I'm not saying stop. Say what you will. Just know that I wonder if your knickers would get a little twisted if the tables were turned on you, and you had to listen to how stupid and evil the people of the Netherlands were on a daily unrelenting basis.

If it makes you feel better Sea Demon look at the criticism as I do.

There will always be those nipping at the 'BIG DOG's' heals;

Many of the most severe critics/antagonists are nationalists for their own country and since their countries are not real players on the world scene this is their only outlet to that frustration;

Jealousy;

The EU was established to counter what was/is, perhaps correctly, perceived as US domination. The nationalist (not bad) attitudes persist and the US still dominates which is evidenced by the continual nipping at the 'BIG DOG's' heals.

Don't feel bad about it, revel in it, and never let others tell you what to think.

Above all be proud to be a citizen of the United States.

[Fish]

Critic, not hate.

I'm sure there are plenty of things I can find about the Netherlands for example, which warrant daily criticism, and which could make your daily visit here unpleasant. But I digress, sir.

Criticism is one thing. Daily harping, and daily repetitive anti-USA propaganda is another. ;) I'm not saying stop. Say what you will. Just know that I wonder if your knickers would get a little twisted if the tables were turned on you, and you had to listen to how stupid and evil the people of the Netherlands were on a daily unrelenting basis.

Your quit right. ;) But who the **** is interested in such a small country, no one.
On the other hand the US playes a major role in the lives of a lot of people on this planet.
And not always a pleasant role. People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

[waste gate]

OK you saw my post.

[waste gate]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

[SUBMAN1]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

You have my permission to nuke the Islamic radicals to the stone age. I won't bat an eye! :p As for nuking Holland to the stone age, I might have to say a thing or two because I have Dutch blood.

-S

[Sea Demon]

Your quit right. ;) But who the **** is interested in such a small country, no one.
On the other hand the US playes a major role in the lives of a lot of people on this planet.
And not always a pleasant role. People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Doesn't change the fact that I could find some nice juicy crap to give you on a daily basis about your "little" country. And Europe in general. I've lived there. And the reason I've lived there is because you Europeans were unable to defend yourselves against threats from the East. Doesn't matter anyway. Wastegate is correct. Alot of the daily harping is rooted in jealousy. It's much funner for you to put the USA in the crosshairs and ignore the roots of your own problems. I've seen the pornography obsessions, the European "gimme, gimme, gimme" socialist policies and their results (French riots), and the way you're allowing for your own grandchildren to be ruled by a Muslim master someday. There's plenty to harass you with. I could make an issue of it, but I won't. I like Europe, and wish it success and survival. Unfortunately there seems to be no reciprocity. So criticize as you will. Makes no difference to me. I ain't going anywhere. ;)

[waste gate]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

You have my permission to nuke the Islamic radicals to the stone age. I won't bat an eye! :p As for nuking Holland to the stone age, I might have to say a thing or two because I have Dutch blood.

-S

My point is; why waste nukes on people who are already in the stone age?

[SUBMAN1]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

You have my permission to nuke the Islamic radicals to the stone age. I won't bat an eye! :p As for nuking Holland to the stone age, I might have to say a thing or two because I have Dutch blood.

-S

My point is; why waste nukes on people who are already in the stone age?

Hahaha! They almost are aren't they? In thought, mind, and to tell you the truth, I can't think of a single great discovery or art or anything that has come out of those countries - ever! At least not before the great Persian empire.

-S

[waste gate]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

You have my permission to nuke the Islamic radicals to the stone age. I won't bat an eye! :p As for nuking Holland to the stone age, I might have to say a thing or two because I have Dutch blood.

-S

My point is; why waste nukes on people who are already in the stone age?

Hahaha! They almost are aren't they? In thought, mind, and to tell you the truth, I can't think of a single great discovery or art or anything that has come out of those countries - ever! At least not before the great Persian empire.

-S

The alphabet we are using is the last contribution I can think of that has any positive value.

[Fish]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99752&highlight=nuke

Ohh, and Submani of course.

And Coda±
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99716&highlight=nuke
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99561&highlight=nuke

[waste gate]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.

Who said that?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99752&highlight=nuke

Ohh, and Submani of course.

But do they have the means?

When I inquired as to who said it, I should have been more specific as to 'who, what head of state with nuclear capability said it?

Laid down by the Ayatollah Khomeini and thus considered by some to be beyond repeal—that the state of Israel is illegitimate and must be obliterated.

This is closer to the real danger.

[Takeda Shingen]

Is this thing still alive? :roll: OK, people have chosen to leave. I hate to sound harsh, but enough of the drama. Close the thread and let's move on.

That's just it. I have seen people do this type of thing hundereds of times. It is done for dramatic purposes. One can simply log out, deleting his cookies, and remove the link from his bookmarks/favorites list. The leaving speech is simply done so that one can grandstand on his way out the door.

For me, you can say what you would like about the country I live in, the language I speak, the music I listen to, the books I read or even the type of person I am. I am very dispassionate in discussion on this forum. You are going to run across a whole lot of absurdity on the internet. Be prepared to step over the dung, never through it.

Let's move on. We always do.

[The Noob]

People who are saying nuke them to the stone age are mostly not from outside the US.
Who said that?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99752&highlight=nuke

Ohh, and Submani of course.
But do they have the means?
Yes. They can elect a president who might do it.

[Rose]

Oh lord... SubSerpent got banned too! I liked him. I wonder how long his ban is for. Will everyone just stop leaving/getting themselves banned!

[ASWnut101]

holy crep! how is all the banning happening? Why are so many people leaving this nice fourm? I had fun arguing with brad, SubSerpent, and others that have left.... oh well, i guess it's time to talk amongst my self for now.....J/K:lol: