The Iraq Conflict Thread

[Gizzmoe]

This is the new Iraq conflict thread. All Iraq-related topics go in here. Any new Iraq-related threads will be merged into this thread.

This is a method by Neal and me to keep the amount of such threads to a minimum in the future, for the best of the overall forum.

As always, please keep the discussions civil. :) Thanks!

Off-topic posts will be deleted, edited or moved to a new thread.

[The Noob]

I guess that is the right place for this Post then? :-?

The Big Iraq Lie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wveVxS_Qfo)

[SUBMAN1]

I guess that is the right place for this Post then? :-?

The Big Iraq Lie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wveVxS_Qfo)

Someone is smoking crack - whomever made this vid that is.

-S

[STEED]

I guess that is the right place for this Post then? :-?

The Big Iraq Lie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wveVxS_Qfo)

Someone is smoking crack - whomever made this vid that is.

-S

It's part of Alex Jone's new doc Terror storm you can see the whole thing on Google for free. Trouble with conspiracy's is where is the hard solid 100% proof?

[The Avon Lady]

I guess that is the right place for this Post then? :-?

The Big Iraq Lie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wveVxS_Qfo)
No. The right place for that is in this site's (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/) external links page.

[fredbass]

I'm sure most people are aware that mistakes have been made, but the U.S. made its decisions with good intentions and not so good advice. But, at least an evil dictator was removed from power and one more country has started a new journey called democracy, if it holds.

It's really too bad that the United States has had to do so much on its own. If we'd gotten the support that was expected, the situation would undoubtedly be more stable than it is, enabling the withdrawal of troops from the region, thus leaving them to manage their own state of affairs.

[The Noob]

It's part of Alex Jone's new doc Terror storm you can see the whole thing on Google for free.
Good to know, thank you.

Trouble with conspiracy's is where is the hard solid 100% proof?
The problem is what people think is a conspirancy theory. Everything that could hurt thier little nice world gets blocked with the "It's just another conspirancy theory! No No that can't be we are so great! Our intentions are all justified! NO NO NO!" card.

Patriotism blinds.

I'm sure most people are aware that mistakes have been made, but the U.S. made its decisions with good intentions and not so good advice.
Luring people into war by violating thier airspace with aircraft painted in UN colors is a good intention? Whatever you say.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally posted by Skybird, from a now locked thread.

----------------------


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6074182.stm

Let's talk on changing tactics. Now is the talk of "willing to talk to any insurgent group as long as it is not Al Quaeda". that means willing to negotiate with terror groups commiting acts of incredible cruelty. At the samer time the "goal remains unchanged: victory." How should that work? The US has often tried to form alliances with gangster, warlords and murderous gangs, last time in Somalia - and then was suprised time and again that these thugs sooner or later let them down and turned against them after the US has helped them to acchieve their targets and secure power. that's why they are considered criminals. It will not function any different this time.

McCain some days ago said one should send more troops into Iraq. Well, I said that three years ago. Now it is too late. Even boosting troop level to 400 thousand troops would only mean to spill more oil into the fire.

It is only the elections for congress, and later for presidency, that makes them cling so desperately to even completely illusory attempts to sell the public that there are still chances to make something good of it. For this, American soldiers are accepted to get killed. They do not die in national service, but in the service of party interests. They are the fall guys. (Bauernopfer). Their CIC betrays them.

The only reasonable option left is an organized withdrawal. Everything else is murderous self-deception. US troops will acchieve no calming in Iraq, they only become guilty os having a role in the bloodshed - all for nothing. The very presence of the troops itself is what is the problem and fuels the violance on and on. And now, Georgie, you wish to talk to those that massacre civilians, torture hundreds and thousands to death, and ambush and kill your troops. Georgie, Georgie, it seems your stupidity and unscrupulousness does not know any limits. Will you never have enough of yourself? Whomever the voice belongs that you are listen to - it is hardly the voice of a reasonable and man-loving god.

[tycho102]

As for Iraq, I am ready to bail out and let the Shi'a have at it. Until one faction massacres the other faction, there will never be any chance of nationalist pride in that area. The moslems want a caliphate so they can compete against Europe and America, so I'm ready to just let them have at it. Drive the price of oil up to $120 a barrel, and get us the hell off it. Let the Wahabbi and the Sunni get it figured out.


However, this doesn't place Isreal in all that great of a position. The Jews are going to have to get tough again, Amalek style.

[The Avon Lady]

The Jews are going to have to get tough again, Amalek style.
Pumping iron this very moment!

Only 3 shirts left! :()1:

[SUBMAN1]

I guess that is the right place for this Post then? :-?

The Big Iraq Lie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wveVxS_Qfo)
Someone is smoking crack - whomever made this vid that is.

-S
It's part of Alex Jone's new doc Terror storm you can see the whole thing on Google for free. Trouble with conspiracy's is where is the hard solid 100% proof?
That's the problem in this world. Where is the proof? I read things lately about that acuse one country or another of doing this or that, but never is there much to back it up other than conjecture. The world wide web of mis-information.

-S

[STEED]

Well lets in back on track, over the back end of last week and this week there seems too be a change of thinking on the horizon by George Bush but no change of view from Tony Blair, any way are we about to see something of a change in direction on how we are handling's Iraq?

[kiwi_2005]

Well lets in back on track, over the back end of last week and this week there seems too be a change of thinking on the horizon by George Bush but no change of view from Tony Blair, any way are we about to see something of a change in direction on how we are handling's Iraq?

Yes its time to pack up the troops and leave:yep: . Was watching your World news they show over here, runs from 1am to 5am every day, usually im up still in the atlantic, but last night i hear your fellas poodle for a minister or ex minister is talking about pulling British troops out of iraq. Well bush & blair are discussing this option.

My bad if this is already been mentioned here (never read whole thread)

[Gizzmoe]

I guess the mods here got what they wanted, kill intelligent conversation and throw all the bashers into one place.
No, that isn´t the intention. It doesn´t take many to ruin a conversation, one or two people are usually enough as this thread (and a few others) showed. Bashers need to learn to shut up and not to derail a thread with stupid remarks.

Edit: I´ve removed a bunch of OT posts and also edited a few posts.

[The Avon Lady]

Melanie Phillips: Talking ourselves to death (http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=458).

[SkvyWvr]

Trouble with conspiracy's is where is the hard solid 100% proof?
The problem is what people think is a conspirancy theory. Everything that could hurt thier little nice world gets blocked with the "It's just another conspirancy theory! No No that can't be we are so great! Our intentions are all justified! NO NO NO!" card.

Patriotism blinds.

Prehaps if the proof were presented up front, ppl wouldn't look at it as a conspiracy story.

[The Avon Lady]

Luring people into war by violating thier airspace with aircraft painted in UN colors is a good intention? Whatever you say.
Let's think about this old Guradian claim, whose mentioned memo has only been seen by the eyes of author Sands.

If Bush and Blair wanted to use Iraqi anti-aircraft fire as their excuse to trigger a war, they hardly had to make up an incident.

Iraq has a long and well documented history of firing upon aircraft enforcing the U.N.-mandated "No-fly" zones in what became unofficially known as the No-Fly Zone War which occurred more or less continuously from the end of the first Gulf War in 1991 until the Iraq War began on March 20, 2003.

Iraqi aggression against Coalition planes carrying out U.N.-mandated missions occurred with enough severity that they warranted an armed response more than 47 times in 2001, and more than 76 times - more than once a week - in 2002. In the 3 months of 2003 leading up to the March 20th invasion of Iraq, Iraqi anti-aircraft and command and control sites targeting these same coalition planes had to be fired up in defense 33 times in just 12 weeks in the Southern Watch area alone.

Over the course of 12 years, more than 1,100 missiles were expended in defensive actions against a minimum of 350 Iraqi targets, most of them when anti-aircraft weapons had "gone hot," committing the exact same kinds of breaches that forms the basis of the dubious Bush-to-Blair comments above.

Blair and Bush did not have to manufacture these kinds of incidents to justify a war when Saddam was already breaching the ceasefire on his own.

Like many of the other hyped claims in your video link, this one, too, is much ado about nothing.

[fredbass]

Avon Lady. You are a smart cookie. I had forgot about that until you brought the facts to our attention again.

Thanks for the reminder.

[STEED]

Trouble with conspiracy's is where is the hard solid 100% proof?
The problem is what people think is a conspirancy theory. Everything that could hurt thier little nice world gets blocked with the "It's just another conspirancy theory! No No that can't be we are so great! Our intentions are all justified! NO NO NO!" card.

Patriotism blinds.

Prehaps if the proof were presented up front, ppl wouldn't look at it as a conspiracy story.

SUBMAN1 raised a good point and I feel it can be opened up as new topic on a new thread. :ping:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=332463#post332463


Just taking Gizzmoes advice.

OK back to Iraq.