Striking the US where it hurts

[Fish]

Part I:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ19Ad01.html

Part 2:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ20Ad01.html

[Konovalov]

Interesting. So what's the good news? Is there a striking China where it hurts version?

[Fish]

Interesting. So what's the good news? Is there a striking China where it hurts version?
I am pretty sure! :yep:

[CB..]

typical of America to assume that Russia would just roll over and play dead.(oops didn't any one bother to check?:oops: )..Russia just waits for winter then "re asserts" it self..China just plays tortoise and hare with the rest of world...Iran just does it's thorn in the side impersonation...

[TteFAboB]

There's a bunch of surreal stuff in there.

I used to read these things back in the 60's from the books my communist comrades brought from China. Names change, targets change, some things are inflated, like the IT part which back then limited itself to Radio and phone lines, others apparently have been forgotten and then there are new toys like the super-anti-carrier missile. Back then they relied on infiltrated party saboteaurs to melt the reactor's core and explode the ammunition storages.

How about off-shoring Subsim as a joint-venture with the Chinese government? They have de-censored Wikipedia in English only but Subsim will be for external consumption only anyway. I see no problem in doing joint-ventures with the Chinese government. It's just business anyway. Why don't we start joint-ventures with the American government too?

[Skybird]

I can't judge all the specific military technology details, but beside these, I can't agree more on the Brigadier's views. I never understood why so many Americans seem to see their nation and themselves as almost invulnerable. when when having pointed at this or that of their most obvious weaknesses, only laughter. Very likely that the others maybe will laugh last, but longer and louder. America seem to have a fetish for big clubs, firearms, violence and military. And exactly this probably will turn out to be it's Achilles heel.

Too bad that many Europeans share these self-deceptions when relying on the US umbrella - even today when the differences between both spheres become bigger, wider, and more and more turn into rivalries. That Europe plays it's own cards so badly, and the ridiculously low spendings in future-related preparation, including defence budgets, is something that costs me some sleep at nights.

If the US will collapse under it's own weight, it follow many examples of former global empires that went down for exactly this reason. With regard to Europe, we need to rethink about closer alliances with Russia. they have the resources, we have the technology, both make us ideal partners. Concerning Putin, I can only quote German correspondent legend Peter Scholl-Latour: "I have seen many dictators that were far, far worse."

They may be rivals in the global game, but one has to admire the style and calmness and unexcitement with which the Chinese play their cards and one by one pick up their advantages, even when being challenged. So much different than the Americans, or us Europeans. I think they will be winners of this game.

[Coda]

If they really want to hit us where it hurts, they should gain control of our beer and cigarettes at convenience stores.

Wait a minute........... ah never mind.





They forgot point 11. Football. Not the game, the one the President carries.

[ASWnut101]

That was problably one of the most dangerous times for the U.S. when the presidents left it. I don't remember which ones, but my god! You've got the key to the country's nuke arsenal and you leave it at a party! One waiter who cleaned up the mess after the party said he opened it, saw what was inside, and immediatly called the FBI........ Some people just can't be trusted with the country's well being, it seems.:nope:

[SUBMAN1]

I can't judge all the specific military technology details, but beside these, I can't agree more on the Brigadier's views. I never understood why so many Americans seem to see their nation and themselves as almost invulnerable. when when having pointed at this or that of their most obvious weaknesses, only laughter. Very likely that the others maybe will laugh last, but longer and louder. America seem to have a fetish for big clubs, firearms, violence and military. And exactly this probably will turn out to be it's Achilles heel.

Too bad that many Europeans share these self-deceptions when relying on the US umbrella - even today when the differences between both spheres become bigger, wider, and more and more turn into rivalries. That Europe plays it's own cards so badly, and the ridiculously low spendings in future-related preparation, including defence budgets, is something that costs me some sleep at nights.

If the US will collapse under it's own weight, it follow many examples of former global empires that went down for exactly this reason. With regard to Europe, we need to rethink about closer alliances with Russia. they have the resources, we have the technology, both make us ideal partners. Concerning Putin, I can only quote German correspondent legend Peter Scholl-Latour: "I have seen many dictators that were far, far worse."

They may be rivals in the global game, but one has to admire the style and calmness and unexcitement with which the Chinese play their cards and one by one pick up their advantages, even when being challenged. So much different than the Americans, or us Europeans. I think they will be winners of this game.

You take to propoganda real easy I notice.

[NEON DEON]

That was problably one of the most dangerous times for the U.S. when the presidents left it. I don't remember which ones, but my god! You've got the key to the country's nuke arsenal and you leave it at a party! One waiter who cleaned up the mess after the party said he opened it, saw what was inside, and immediatly called the FBI........ Some people just can't be trusted with the country's well being, it seems.:nope:

Let the waiter carry it. He seems to be a reliable sort.;)

[ASWnut101]

I know! :)

[Coda]

That was problably one of the most dangerous times for the U.S. when the presidents left it. I don't remember which ones, but my god! You've got the key to the country's nuke arsenal and you leave it at a party! One waiter who cleaned up the mess after the party said he opened it, saw what was inside, and immediatly called the FBI........ Some people just can't be trusted with the country's well being, it seems.:nope:


I would have turned the key and pushed the buttons.

[ASWnut101]

yeah, that was kind of my fantasy too......it would have been fun while it lasted, before the FBI came in and shot you....:yep: :cool:

[Ducimus]

The LInked sites are funny to me because you'd swear to god they think they thought all that stuff up. Like the US woudlnt employ similar tactics or something. Id say the author is blindly overpatriotic to his home nation.

[ASWnut101]

The LInked sites are funny to me because you'd swear to god they think they thought all that stuff up. Like the US woudlnt employ similar tactics or something. Id say the author is blindly overpatriotic to his home nation.

Theres nothing wrong with being overpatriotic, just blindly overpatriotic.

Like me. I wear a shirt that says "Patriotism: An American Tradition" that has a big american flag on it. I flaunt it infront of the Anti-Everything girl in my class. She hates me. Bad. She dosent even stand for the pledge! That pissed off a few in class, including me, but nothing we can do about it. They refer to the types as "emo-goths." She says she hates saying the pledge because she thinks others are trying to press their ideals and values into her. *I'm starting to get mad just writing this* I feel like putting an American flag on her desk, glued on. :nope:

[fredbass]

I'm starting to get mad just writing this* I feel like putting an American flag on her desk, glued on. :nope:

Well.... what you waiting for? :up:

[ASWnut101]

Well, doing so will get me a referral, which means no field trips, extracurricular activities, ect.:nope:

Tell me thats not PC bullpoo....

[fredbass]

Well, doing so will get me a referral, which means no field trips, extracurricular activities, ect.:nope:

Tell me thats not PC bullpoo....

Well you're supposed to do it when noone is watching, silly. :know:

P.S. Don't blame me if you get caught. :shifty:

[Ducimus]

Theres nothing wrong with being overpatriotic,


I think there is. I wont go into a long essay about it. Suffice to say, growing up in the regan era, i was overpatrotic to say the least. I remember a vietnam vet i knew at the time telling me, That there wasnt anything wrong with being patrotic, but being overpatrotic is bad and you dont want to be that way. He served his country and was proud of it. Coming from a type of person i idolzed at the time i coudlnt understand what made him say that. I was taken aback by it. Having grown older, and later enlisting like i knew i always would, and served for 7 years, having been to variou parts in the world, i finally understood what he was talking about.

Can't quite put it into words to explain it, and trying to would be a waste of time; as It woudlnt change anyones perspective on patrotism anyway.

[Coda]

P.S. Don't blame me if you get caught. :shifty:
Don't be surprised when he gets caught, it becomes a world headline, after Skybird writes a 20 page dissertation on how forums are failing the world, then he sues you for giving him advice making him get caught.

Then the school systems outlaw students from participating in forums because they get bad advice that gets them caught, Al Gore does a mini-series on how forums are destroying the planet, the UN passes sanctions against Subsim.com barring them from trade with uncivilized nations and North korea decides to nuke Houston because it's where Subsim started.

See what you caused? You should be more careful.

[SUBMAN1]

Theres nothing wrong with being overpatriotic,

I think there is. I wont go into a long essay about it. Suffice to say, growing up in the regan era, i was overpatrotic to say the least. I remember a vietnam vet i knew at the time telling me, That there wasnt anything wrong with being patrotic, but being overpatrotic is bad and you dont want to be that way. He served his country and was proud of it. Coming from a type of person i idolzed at the time i coudlnt understand what made him say that. I was taken aback by it. Having grown older, and later enlisting like i knew i always would, i finally understood what he was talking about.

Can't quite put it into words to explain it, and trying to would be a waste of time; as It woudlnt change anyones perspective on patrotism anyway.

I get what he is saying and understand it, but it would be interesting to hear it from you anyway. i like stories like this.

-S

[TteFAboB]

The problem is not being "patriotic", "overpatriotic" or whatever you want to name it but what you're using nationalism for, or to hide from.

Speak Ducimus, because there's people out there trying to change kid's perspectives.

Anyway, the flag-gluing posts are simply hilarious. :rotfl:

[ASWnut101]

Or maby I should paint it on her forhead while she sleeps in class.....muhahahaha

[Ducimus]

The problem is not being "patriotic", "overpatriotic" or whatever you want to name it but what you're using nationalism for, or to hide from.

Speak Ducimus, because there's people out there trying to change kid's perspectives.

Anyway, the flag-gluing posts are simply hilarious. :rotfl:

I woudlnt know where to begin, theres alot one could say.
You let me off easy howeve, so heres the textbook answer of whats wrong with too much patriotism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

If thats too long to read, you can skip down to the section called "Nationalism within a nation." Oh and, Zeig heil.

[ASWnut101]

Oh and, Zeig heil.

Now was that really nessicary?:ping:

[August]

If the US will collapse under it's own weight, it follow many examples of former global empires that went down for exactly this reason.

Well that's a safe bet Skybird. All empires since the beginning of recorded history, global or regional, have "gone down" at some point. The nation who grew the empire always survives, and that has always been enough for me and the overwhelming majority of my countrymen.

Unlike the most empires throughout history our intention has never been to annex new lands and territories. We're not going to loose our overseas colonies because we don't have any.

So what exactly does "gone down" mean in a modern sense? The last empire to fall, the Soviet empire, "went down" only a few years ago (historically speaking), yet Russia not only survives and is beginning to prosper, but according to that article is already plotting it's return to empire.

[SUBMAN1]

If the US will collapse under it's own weight, it follow many examples of former global empires that went down for exactly this reason.

Well that's a safe bet Skybird. All empires since the beginning of recorded history, global or regional, have "gone down" at some point. The nation who grew the empire always survives, and that has always been enough for me and the overwhelming majority of my countrymen.

Unlike the most empires throughout history our intention has never been to annex new lands and territories. We're not going to loose our overseas colonies because we don't have any.

So what exactly does "gone down" mean in a modern sense? The last empire to fall, the Soviet empire, "went down" only a few years ago (historically speaking), yet Russia not only survives and is beginning to prosper, but according to that article is already plotting it's return to empire.

Someone with a brain finially! :hmm: That is what I have been saying for ages - what empire? There is none. Never quite understood this empire thing. Yes, the US has near world dominance unlike any country before, but we choose not to exercise that dominance and instead deal in a peaceful economic manner - something a country in a position such as this has never done in history. History will see us as an oddball, that is for sure.

-S

PS. Maybe Skybird can clue us in on what territory we will lose? Oops - I forgot - Porto Rico. Strange this is though, they were the ones that wanted to be a US territory. We never asked them to be to my knowledge. Matter of fact, seems to be a good thing to be a territory since you get all the benefits of being part of the US without paying any of the taxes. So maybe it would be a good thing to loose Porto Rico? ;)

[snowsub]

Well you could loose the Virgin Islands, and the Northern Marianas Islands. ;) (and Porto Rico as noted)
And are Guam & American Samoa considered part of US territory?

See, america is taking over the world :lol: :rotfl:

Down with the evil empire :stare: :roll: :88)


said with tongue heavily in cheek

[August]

Well you could loose the Virgin Islands, and the Northern Marianas Islands. ;) (and Porto Rico as noted)
And are Guam & American Samoa considered part of US territory?

See, america is taking over the world :lol: :rotfl:

Down with the evil empire :stare: :roll: :88)


said with tongue heavily in cheek

They'd all be a good trade for no longer having to listen to the ceasless criticism we've been enduring since the end of the second world war.

[The Noob]

She dosent even stand for the pledge! That pissed off a few in class, including me, but nothing we can do about it. They refer to the types as "emo-goths." She says she hates saying the pledge because she thinks others are trying to press their ideals and values into her. *I'm starting to get mad just writing this* I feel like putting an American flag on her desk, glued on. :nope:

She has the right to be anti-american, damnit. Just because she was born in america this does not mean she has any dutys there. At least not from a lefties viewpoint.

Patriotism will lead to Ultra Patriotism, and that will lead to Nationalism, wich will lead to Hitler, Mussolini, Czar, Amadinejad....

That is why i think patriotism is a dangerous disease.

*Gets mad writing this*

I just can't see people like you without going totally mad.

(...)
You take to propoganda real easy I notice.

You take to propoganda real easy I notice.

Some day USA will go down, and Russia or Middle East will controle the world. It's not nice this way, but for me, USA in power is the same sucky.

And i'll bet the way "David, Hippie Music and Fidel save the world" (Would be a nice movie title...:hmm:) won't work...:damn::damn::damn:

"Peaceful trade in a nice, economic manner"? Ha Ha. Ha. Now stop taking your governements pills please.

[Fish]

[. We're not going to loose our overseas colonies because we don't have any.

.


Well, if I am well informed the US just colonized outer space. :hmm:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usspac/visbook.pdf

[Skybird]

If the US will collapse under it's own weight, it follow many examples of former global empires that went down for exactly this reason.Unlike the most empires throughout history our intention has never been to annex new lands and territories. We're not going to loose our overseas colonies because we don't have any.

That was true for the British, Portuguese and dutch trading empires as well. With the exception of India, they only established trading strongholds at strategic key locations, they focused on seizing coastlines, but did not care much about occupying all the Continental inland. The system of American bases around the globe as well the the dominant influence of the US in the ICF, WTO and NATO (and last but not least: the UN: SC) as well as it's massive influence on politics of other nations and cultural influence by dominating global medias by US medias or medias that follow the opinion policies of these is a parallel to that.

The ability to enforce policies in WTO, ICF and NATO that are in the interests of the US are decreasing, though.

The Brigadier pointed at one thing that you should feel extremely nervous about: China holds the biggest dollar reserves of all your lenders. They already have enough that they could trigger a chain reaction that leads to the international financial markets being flooded with sold dollar reserves from everybody, which would leave the US with a currency that is almost worthless and no longer capable to keep the US economy running. It is running and living on tick. See the ICF warning about the ridiculous volume of US deficit.

Napoleon's dream did not live because the British outsmarted him on financial politics (by potential, France should have been more than strong and rich enough to outlast the British, but Napoleon's handling of finances is said to have been inadequate, at least, while the British tailored a financial system around their war with the French that enabled them to endure much longer than one had to expect if checking their initial resources). Habsburg, Spain, Austria stumbled over financial struggles and increasing deficits. Venice fall began when it was no longer able to claim a position of being a vital centre for the flow of goods and finances. The Netherlands withdraw from competition to financially and economically influence (by trading) Europe for lacking monetarian power. Only the British maybe can be said to have been loosing their empire due to military defeat (the loss of colonies in SE Asia during the chaos of WWII). For the xth time I recommend Paul Kennedy's brilliant book which focuses very much exactly on these aspects in power politics in Europe: the interaction of finance-economy-military. One of the best non-fictional books I have ever red, thick in pages, but fluid reading. Having only one of these three pillars, but not the others, guarantees failure. China invests in all three of these, Russia in military (again) and economy (energy), Iran on finance and oil, while the US focuses on (more and more expensive) military, and Europe on (fading) economy and finances. I see Europe not half as well positioned in the global game as European politicians often claim. additionally, too man players in our team. A power made up of more than two dozen players who all want to be the team captain hardly ever will act as a team: more like a parade of hysteric primadonnas. This will work against us, forever.

[The Avon Lady]

I see Europe not half as well positioned in the global game as European politicians often claim.
That and Europe's other problems (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/10/shape-of-things-to-come-in-europe.html).

(Now can you see the link's underline?)

[Skybird]

Yes!!!

[fredbass]

Or maby I should paint it on her forhead while she sleeps in class.....muhahahaha

Now we know her problem. She's a day dreamer. :lol: Maybe if she actually payed attention to the teacher, she might learn something. :ping: :ping:

Looking forward to what you do. muhahahaha. :|\\

[The Noob]

Or maby I should paint it on her forhead while she sleeps in class.....muhahahaha
Now we know her problem. She's a day dreamer. :lol: Maybe if she actually payed attention to the teacher, she might learn something. :ping: :ping:

Looking forward to what you do. muhahahaha. :|\\
He should leave her alone as a sight of tolerance upon the Anti-Whatever-you-arent-against people. ;)

Only A-Holes do such things and piss of classcomrade-Prisoniers with intention. The guards (Teachers) already make it hard enough, by fighting each other and attacking the different you make it hell for her. Do you really wanna do this just because she does not like to get bound and manipulated from a state right form the beginning? Then your what i expected you to be. :ping:

Last post on the shoolgirl matter.

[SUBMAN1]

Some day USA will go down, and Russia or Middle East will controle the world. It's not nice this way, but for me, USA in power is the same sucky.

And i'll bet the way "David, Hippie Music and Fidel save the world" (Would be a nice movie title...:hmm:) won't work...:damn::damn::damn:

"Peaceful trade in a nice, economic manner"? Ha Ha. Ha. Now stop taking your governements pills please.
I do not take to propoganda. I analyze. Maybe that makes me a bit more dangerous than the rest of the mindless sheep out there, but i can tell you that I do agree that the US won't last on its current course of self destruction. We need only to look at Europe to see what our future holds and it doesn't look pretty. Also, it won't be an army that does us in either, nor will it be stupid arab terrorists. It will be the US of A's own undoing. The only way to stop it as I can see is to start with campaign spending limitations. Without it, Corporations will continue to run our government in their own special interest.

Matter of fact, the damn islamic terrorists gave US Corps more a break than any harm in my eyes on 9/11. I watched in 2000 as everyone is going around saying business is great and profits are up yadda yadda yadda (talk about propoganda), but in reality, business stank to high hell. The US Corporations were on a collision course with reality and were about to be backed into a corner with no way out but to own up to the fact they were lying to everyone. What happened? SOme dumbasses flew planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentegon. What happened after that? All the Corporations were just given an 'out' as to why business had turned sour. "Oh, we weren't lying, the 9/11 destroyed the economy!!!! THat is what happened!!!" BS. The economy and all research budgets, everything was already on this collision course in 2000 and by 2002, they would have no way out. Maybe this was an act of god to keep our country propped up in the eyes of the world (when everything was failling), and the terrorists actually helped our country more than hindered it, but I tell you, I wanted the Corps to account for what they had done and they were handed and out on a silver platter.

Just the way I see these things. Forget the propoganda since you won't find an ounce of it here.

-S

[fredbass]

to ASWnut101: Remember that when she doesn't stand to pledge allegiance to the United States Flag she is not promising loyalty to our Flag, our states, and our government, so don't feel bad towards someone who doesn't want to be a fellow patriot. You do what's in your heart. If she's the only one not doing it, then I would think that she's already being outcast by many students already, so you make the call. Maybe you could teach her the meaning of being a good patriot. Maybe you could suggest to the teacher of doing something like that. Sometimes setting an example works better... but then again, sometimes just getting even feels good. :up: Just some ideas to think about.

[August]

That was true for the British, Portuguese and dutch trading empires as well. With the exception of India, they only established trading strongholds at strategic key locations, they focused on seizing coastlines, but did not care much about occupying all the Continental inland. The system of American bases around the globe as well the the dominant influence of the US in the ICF, WTO and NATO (and last but not least: the UN: SC) as well as it's massive influence on politics of other nations and cultural influence by dominating global medias by US medias or medias that follow the opinion policies of these is a parallel to that.
I disagree. Britian, Portugal and the Netherlands all had large permanent colonial possessions that were far more extensive than mere isolated forts and trading centers. These colonies were wholly owned by them, perhaps with promises of future independance, but possessions of the crown nonetheless.

US bases on the other hand are temporary sites that occupy land belonging to and by the permission and invitation of, the host nation. That's a vast, vast difference.

The Brigadier pointed at one thing that you should feel extremely nervous about: China holds the biggest dollar reserves of all your lenders. They already have enough that they could trigger a chain reaction that leads to the international financial markets being flooded with sold dollar reserves from everybody, which would leave the US with a currency that is almost worthless and no longer capable to keep the US economy running. It is running and living on tick. See the ICF warning about the ridiculous volume of US deficit.
First off, by doing that China destroys, what, half of it's overseas markets? If i'm poor i'm darned sure not going to be buying Chinese made luxury goods like DVD players and Nike sneakers, i'm going to be using what remaining spending power i have to buy food which is a lot easier to produce locally than to ship it from overseas.

Secondly destroying the value of the dollar destroys the value of the dollars they still possess. They could not even release a quarter of their dollar reserves without ruining the value of the remaining 3/4ths.

Thirdly, they not only hurt the US but every one of their trading partners as wel, so interlinked is the world economy these days.

And lastly, artificially lowering the dollars value like that only makes it a valuable commodity for someone else. A smart investor will snap up those cheap dollars and wait until they climb back up to their true value.

At that point where does it leave China? It's own economy severely damaged, it's former customers highly pissed off and now it doesn't have whatever leverage it once had.

I see Europe not half as well positioned in the global game as European politicians often claim. additionally, too man players in our team. A power made up of more than two dozen players who all want to be the team captain hardly ever will act as a team: more like a parade of hysteric primadonnas. This will work against us, forever.
You can't really compare European countries and finances where 90% of their empire was on foreign lands, the same place 90% of their economic power came from, with large countries like Russia, China and the US. We're big enough to generate economies that are wholly domestic and self sustaining if necessary. Wasn't the EU an attempt to correct this deficiency?

The only thing that can truely destroy the US is fragmentation. Instead of 50 united states, it would have to be turned into 50 independant countries all squabbling with each other like much of European history. We fought a major civil war to prevent this from happening, and while anything is possible in the future, I don't see that happening here anytime soon.

If anything such an overt attempt to hurt us would tend to band us together even more strongly.

[ASWnut101]

well, another followed on..... and she gets there at the same time as me. it would be nearly impossible get there before her.

And noob, when she dosen't stand for the pledge, she is saying that she is not an american. what is she doing in our school? To many, if you don't stand for it, you don't belong here.

And don't call me an A-hole again.:stare:

[waste gate]

well, another followed on..... and she gets there at the same time as me. it would be nearly impossible get there before her.

And noob, when she dosen't stand for the pledge, she is saying that she is not an american. what is she doing in our school? To many, if you don't stand for it, you don't belong here.

And don't call me an A-hole again.:stare:

Don't let her behavior bother you ASWnut101. Her inabilaty to pay some respect to the nation which gave her so much should tell you what type of person she is.
Life is too short to allow others, especially the ungrateful, to through you off your game.

[ASWnut101]

ahh, I guess your right.

[TteFAboB]

If anything attacking the Dollar would be a good thing! What better reason would you need to go back to the Gold Standard and nil inflation? Monetarists are not my favourite bunch, but there is merit in keeping inflation targets, since we can't get rid of the central bank anyway, as long as they want to implement it to reduce inflation to bare minimum and keep it there, not toy with it. And of course, as long as no whacko comes up with a super-interest rate theory or anything like that.

Hmm, as a matter of fact that would be a good opportunity to get rid of the FED altogether! :D

[waste gate]

If anything attacking the Dollar would be a good thing! What better reason would you need to go back to the Gold Standard and nil inflation? Monetarists are not my favourite bunch, but there is merit in keeping inflation targets, since we can't get rid of the central bank anyway, as long as they want to implement it to reduce inflation to bare minimum and keep it there, not toy with it. And of course, as long as no whacko comes up with a super-interest rate theory or anything like that.

Hmm, as a matter of fact that would be a good opportunity to get rid of the FED altogether! :D

Let us not highjack. Start a new thread.

[scandium]

Theres nothing wrong with being overpatriotic, just blindly overpatriotic.

Like me. I wear a shirt that says "Patriotism: An American Tradition" that has a big american flag on it. I flaunt it infront of the Anti-Everything girl in my class. She hates me. Bad. She dosent even stand for the pledge! That pissed off a few in class, including me, but nothing we can do about it. They refer to the types as "emo-goths." She says she hates saying the pledge because she thinks others are trying to press their ideals and values into her. *I'm starting to get mad just writing this* I feel like putting an American flag on her desk, glued on. :nope:

I got a good chuckle out of this, reading it while looking at the Israeli flag you fly in your sig. :lol:

Me thinks one ought first examine their own loyalties before questioning another's patriotism... I'm sure if she wore say a Mexican flag on her jacket you'd probably be frothing at the mouth, and that kind of irony is priceless. :D

[ASWnut101]

you've got a problem with the israeli flag? And why I fly it is because I like the country's military system. No PC bull there. The only thing holding them back from making peace are libs like her anyway.

question my own patriotism? I love the USA, ok!

I have nothing wrong with anyone displaying a flag on their shirt either. I don't even have a problem with another country's flag on a pole, as long as the American flag is above it.

There is nothing Ironic about my sig and what I posted. Stop complaining.

P.S. its been a while since you posted.....:hmm:

[August]

I have noticed over the years how many of my fellow countrymen will fly our national flag from their porch or doorways etc. Walk through any neighborhood, rich or poor and you'll see them and not because the government tells people to do it, or even encourages it, but rather because they want to.

This is something i never saw when i lived in Europe.

[VON_CAPO]

Part I:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ19Ad01.html

Part 2:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ20Ad01.html
Outstanding article. :know:

I am going to print it. :yep::yep::yep:

Thanks for sharing it. :up:

EDIT: It sounds like an answer to the unilateral american goverment's proclamation about it owns the space.

[SUBMAN1]

Part I:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ19Ad01.html

Part 2:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HJ20Ad01.html
Outstanding article. :know:

I am going to print it. :yep::yep::yep:

Thanks for sharing it. :up:

EDIT: It sounds like an answer to the unilateral american goverment's proclamation about it owns the space.

Ouch. ALl propoganda though so not sure why you are going to try and print it. You planning on moving to CHina?

[VON_CAPO]

Ouch. ALl propoganda though so not sure why you are going to try and print it. Can you identify what is ALI propaganda? :hmm::hmm::hmm:


Why you are going to try and print it. You planning on moving to CHina? Do not consider it an interesting article? :|\\
If that is the case, can you tell us why?


You planning on moving to CHina? Why should I? Do you know about discount tickets for vacations? ;)

[Ducimus]

Just because she was born in america this does not mean she has any dutys there. At least not from a lefties viewpoint..



Strongly disagree with all possible language. If you live in this land, you have obligations. It's everyones duty as a citizen to contribute something to the good of the nation. Be it military service or jury duty.

Theres nothing wrong with patrotism. BLind patriotism and flag waving however ill take issue with. The reason is because such ferver leads to viewing the world through rose tinted glasses or being out of touch with, or uanble to accept, the reality of the world. People with such patirotic zeal tend to not acknowlege our faults and mistakes;,and without acknowledging our faults and mistakes, we have little hope to improve.

On the same token, turning your back on your country, there are no words that fully convey my ill feelings for such people. Our country isnt perfect, not by a long shot, and we make major F'ing mistakes, but it's home, and that's worth defending or speaking out for.

[scandium]

P.S. its been a while since you posted.....:hmm:
Reality has been intruding a lot lately, well mainly work - a quasi-promotion (same job title but lots more work and uptraining but also a 20% raise and more job security) and I've been doing a lot of overtime... but once the raise kicks in I can slack off on that a bit :rock:

So this time my AWOL is under better circumstances than my last one ;)

[Yahoshua]

congrats on the pay raise

[VON_CAPO]

[quote=The Noob]
BLind patriotism and flag waving however ill take issue with. The reason is because such ferver leads to viewing the world through rose tinted glasses or being out of touch with, or uanble to accept, the reality of the world. People with such patirotic zeal tend to not acknowlege our faults and mistakes;,and without acknowledging our faults and mistakes, we have little hope to improve.

On the same token, turning your back on your country, there are no words that fully convey my ill feelings for such people. Our country isnt perfect, not by a long shot, and we make major F'ing mistakes, but it's home, and that's worth defending or speaking out for. Wise words. I agree 100%. :yep::yep::yep:

I hope many of the "habitues" of general topics get a comprehensive understanding of your words, because this people only signals others's defects but is unable to consider a critic. And, do not even think about autocritic.

[ASWnut101]

thats a HUGE raise!

[Fish]

This is something i never saw when i lived in Europe.

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know, since then we are a bit detached.
We flag at national festal days, like the Queen's birthday and liberation day. :up:

[August]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,

Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord.

[Fish]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,

Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord.
We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:

[August]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,
Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord. We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:

Neither do we but where did i say "better"? Your defensiveness sounds like jealousy.

[ASWnut101]

What the?....Where did my flags go?!

My sig is defiled!

[Fish]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,
Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord. We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:

Neither do we but where did i say "better"? Your defensiveness sounds like jealousy.

Ehhh...sounds? No, but you sound as your way is better.

[Driftwood]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,
Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord. We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:

Neither do we but where did i say "better"? Your defensiveness sounds like jealousy.

Since I've known Fish for quite some time I can safely say he wasn't being defensive, he was being complimentary. It appears you have read something into his post that just isn't there. :down:

[Fish]

Aye Driftwood.
I have no problem with flag waving or patriotism as long as it is not some kind of nationalist (right wing) expression.
At the end a flag is just a lap of cloth.

[Skybird]

Aye Driftwood.
I have no problem with flag waving or patriotism as long as it is not some kind of nationalist (right wing) expression.
At the end a flag is just a lap of cloth.
That almost perfectly illustrates my own attitude as well.

Some French thinker, forgot his name, said something like this: Patriotism is love for one's own people, Nationalism is hate on other people.

[fredbass]

Patriotism: a national loyalty; a devoted love and support of country; and willing to defend your country.

[August]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,
Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord. We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:
Neither do we but where did i say "better"? Your defensiveness sounds like jealousy.
Ehhh...sounds? No, but you sound as your way is better.

I apologize then. I'm the one who is getting defensive.

[Skybird]

Patriotism: a national loyalty; a devoted love and support of country; and willing to defend your country it.
that defintion fails me: all this has been true of many Nazis and SS thugs as well: they were loyal to their Third Reich, devotely loved and supported it and sometimes defended it to their death. but noone would call them patriotic, or? A loyalty maybe is better spend on certain principles and values... :hmm: Many resistance fighters - could be called German patriotists. so, what is the decisive difference...? :hmm:

[MothBalls]

Patriotism: a national loyalty; a devoted love and support of country; and willing to defend your country it.
that defintion fails me: all this has been true of many Nazis and SS thugs as well: they were loyal to their Third Reich, devotely loved and supported it and sometimes defended it to their death. but noone would call them patriotic, or? A loyalty maybe is better spend on certain principles and values... :hmm: Many resistance fighters - could be called German patriotists. so, what is the decisive difference...? :hmm:

The country they stand for.

[bradclark1]

all this has been true of many Nazis and SS thugs as well
Didn't these guys have to swear loyalty to Hitler and not to the state? (In fact it was all armed forces if I remember right.)
So patriotism didn't come into it for Nazis and SS thugs.

[Wim Libaers]

Aye Driftwood.
I have no problem with flag waving or patriotism as long as it is not some kind of nationalist (right wing) expression.
At the end a flag is just a lap of cloth. That almost perfectly illustrates my own attitude as well.

Some French thinker, forgot his name, said something like this: Patriotism is love for one's own people, Nationalism is hate on other people.

Sure, it makes sense he's French, as the French have a long history of oppressing minorities, denying them an independent nation and forcing them into the French state instead ;)

Nationalism doesn't have to imply hatred of anyone, that's just something that those who want to suppress it want people to believe.

On nationalism:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nationalism/

[Fish]

We saw that back in the 30es, in germany you know,
Yeah how many of those were put up on the homeowners own initiative and how many at the "suggestion" of the local party potentate?

That's the point i'm making. Nobody tells us to fly a flag, we do it on our own accord. We have no local party potentate.:shifty:

But sure, you guys are a lot better then the rest of the world.:up:
Neither do we but where did i say "better"? Your defensiveness sounds like jealousy.
Ehhh...sounds? No, but you sound as your way is better.

I apologize then. I'm the one who is getting defensive.

Np, probable the ( use of) language. :-?

[Skybird]

Patriotism: a national loyalty; a devoted love and support of country; and willing to defend your country it.
that defintion fails me: all this has been true of many Nazis and SS thugs as well: they were loyal to their Third Reich, devotely loved and supported it and sometimes defended it to their death. but noone would call them patriotic, or? A loyalty maybe is better spend on certain principles and values... :hmm: Many resistance fighters - could be called German patriotists. so, what is the decisive difference...? :hmm:

The country they stand for.
But the country can claim to stand for this given value - but act on the basis of others. you can write something into a constitution - and then brake the constitution, or deformate it, or ignore it. Bypass it. Exploit weaknesses in phrasing. Manipulate the interpretation of it. So where should the loyalty be: with the value as an abstract quality, which will always be a subjective interpreation of yours, then, or the country and it's institutions? You then need to differ between the nation like you wish it to be, and the nation like it really is in reality.

[JSLTIGER]

I'd wish I'd seen this thread before all of the discussion. :cry:

Regardless, my views on the articles:

The ideas presented in the article itself are technically relatively sound. The problem with the theories of bringing down the US hard, is that the entire world would be impacted. The problem with the articles is that they ignore the effect of globalization and the impact of the US on the world.

Attempting to destroy the US economy by causing a run on the dollar is at the very least impractical. If the dollar collapsed, it would take with it many of the other currencies around the world, as many nations receive supplements in aid from the US. Furthermore, if the US collapsed, the Chinese would lose a market for many of their goods, as many Americans would be unable to afford the goods, however low-cost they may be.

Iran hasn't and won't cut off the oil shipments to America because they're making a fortune off of the oil money they receive. The only situations that I could see that would cause the Iranians reacting in that manner would be an immenent attack on them by the US (which, lets face it, is not about to happen), or the immenent conversion of the majority of US power to hydrogen or alternative-based fuels. As the biggest user of oil the world has ever known, the US provides Iran with substantial income, thus its not in their interests to harm the US's purchases of oil. It is, however, in their interests to raise the price of oil, which they've managed to do quite effectively in the last months by raising the tensions of the region and presenting the possibility of blocking the Gulf.

The bottom line is that the US is simply too big and the world too interconnected for a collapse of the US economy not to negatively impact the remainder of the world. Does that mean that a US collapse cannot happen? Of course not. But the world is deluded if it believes that it would escape unscathed by the collapse of an economic power with a GDP of $12.5 trillion (approximately 1.5 times larger than China, the world's number two). Keep in mind that the inverse is also true. Were China to collapse, than the US would be feeling the pain from that as well.

[fredbass]

Skybird, you need to take a chill pill. It really isn't that complicated. :ping: :know:

If you want to know what it's really about here, then I suggest you read this:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.19267/article_detail.asp

But don't be in a hurry to move here. It's getting a little crowded. :arrgh!: :yep:

[Skybird]

Skybird, you need to take a chill pill. It really isn't that complicated. :ping: :know:

If you want to know what it's really about here, then I suggest you read this:
http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.19267/article_detail.asp

But don't be in a hurry to move here. It's getting a little crowded. :arrgh!: :yep:
By paperform and original intention, I love America. not all my books on America are about present time and politics. Yes, it's true, believe it, Skybird says: "I love the idea of what America hopes to be." Great idea, really. but there is a difference between wish, and reality, and by the differing reality and after the many shifts over history, away from how it once was meant, I plan to remain sceptical.

BTW, the religious problems the article claims to be solved, have already found you again. You are just not yet aware. You will be.