Computer advice

[MarshalLaw]

Hello all,

After 4 good years with my old computer I'm finally upgrading. Of coarse I want something that will play SH3 and the upcoming SH4. I have read some of the post regarding vid cards and such. However I have 2 questions:

DDR vs DDR2 Ram.... Is it worth the extra cost?

ATI Radeon vid cards vs NVIDA which is better graphics wise?

Below is what I'm thinking of getting please feel free to chime in your thoughts, I want to make sure I make a "informed" decision.

Thanks,

Athlon 64 3800+939 with a Asus compatible MB
Maxtor HD 160 GB
Best 19 inch Flat screen I can afford
1 Gig of DDR or DDR2, 2 gig if I have enough cash
ATI Radeon X1600Pro 512MB
XP Pro (Upgrade from Home that I have now)
Good case 400watt PS, standard Mouse/keyboard
Floppy/ 16X Rw/=RW light scribe
DVD/Rom
Altec speakers ( nothing fancy)
Sound Blaster Audigy SE

Hoping to keep it around $1000.00 US

[HunterICX]

:hmm: I dont really know much about Ati vid cards because I mainly use Nvidia from the beginning the Geforce 2.

the 512 cards are really fancy but I dont know its worth the money.

I was look on the Nvidia and red about the new Nvidia Serie 7 the 79** with 512 Ram I spoke with an friend about this but he told the 79** 256 is cheaper and its worth it.

I,m still an Serie 5 user , my buddy uses the 7800 256 Mb and he really like it a lot.

I also asked an shop about 1 or 2 gigs of ram. Its better to go straight to the 2 Gigs an 2x1024 Gig will do the trick (for example look at the Corsair memory sticks) they seem to be really good.

Also about Hard Drives its a good advice to seperate them
for example 1 x 100 gigs, and 1 x 60 gigs
use the 60 gigs to install the OS, Driver Software and all the things you need to run the PC, use the 100 Gigs for personal uses. so in case of an PC failure you dont lose all ur data. you just wipe out the 60 gig and reinstall Windows and the drivers on that one.

further rest an good 19' TFT screen for good prices look at LG's and Samsung's they seem to be fairly priced compared with the quality.

Good luck :up:

[CybaGirl]

First of all you cannot use DDR2 ram with an AMD 939 CPU. If you want to use DDR2 ram you will have to buy the AMD AM2 CPU that has 940 pins :).

The benefit of buying DDR2 will be mainly for future upgrade paths. As DDR is slowly being phased out and wont be manufactured soon. Well if it is it will be super expensive as the demand wont be there for it. Only by people who want to add more ram that is.


In regards to ATI or Nvidia. If you are looking at any video card under a Radeon X1900XT then I would go with Nvidia mainly from the price point of view..

But if you can stretch your budget and buy the Radeon X1900XT (256MB version is more affordable) then you will be laughing. As not even the Nvidia 7800GTX, 7900, 7900GTX (in some games) and the new 7950 by Nvidia come anywhere near the Radeon X1900XT.

Here is a video card listing from slowest to fastest. Also you can check Toms Hardware too for further confirmation.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/index.cfm?a=wiki&tag=rmp_vds

My next video card is going to be the X1900XT which I am hoping to get next month :).

Im not to sure what prices are like in the US as oppose to Aus. But you may also consider looking at the new Intel Conroe based processor. As they are currently out performing even the AMD FX CPU and alot cheaper.

In all honestly and if I was upgrading my computer or buying a new one to replace what I have. I would be looking at the Intel Conroe range of CPU's.

Currently I am running a Dual Core AMD 4200+ with 2Gb of DDR ram which is only six months old and after seeing and reading all the reviews I now want an Intel Conroe E6600 setup :).

Coolermaster also make a great range of cases and my Centurion 5 came with a 430 watt power supply included. I can highly recommend this case if you are looking for a good quality case with a decent PSU included.

In regards to DVD burner I would go with BENQ myself as from all the reviews I have read they always get very good ratings and produce excellent quality burns. The LG range of burners are also good value for money.

In regards to sound. I would be just using the onboard sound. Dont waste your money on creative products which are inferior to other sound cards on the market. Especially considering you are not purchasing or using speakers like the Logitech z5500's or any THX approved speakers. You would be far better off putting the extra money you save by not buying a sound card towards the Radeon X1900XT video card IMO and you will find it was money better spent :).



EDIT:

Also forgot to ask is this the Dual Core 3800 you are looking at or the the single core? Because if it is the single core you are far better off with the single core 3700 as it can be overclocked nicely to 2.7 GHZ on air with no problems. I have seen some 3700s even go as high as 3.2 GHZ providing they have the right stepping code and you get the right revision being E4 :)..

More info on this can be read here :).

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=471051

[Cdre Gibs]

@ CybaGirl

I must remember to never Ever let you build me a PC.

[HunterICX]

@ CybaGirl

I must remember to never Ever let you build me a PC.

Well, I hate when people are talking about the smallest things that are different...it makes the PC look like something made of parts and the people talk about them like if it is an Item they found in an Role Playing Game. and they talk into the smalles detail that have a small affect on the system itself.

If I want the PC build. I want to know the MAIN details. not everything explained in the smallest details it confuses.

[Jimbuna]

Just a quick twopenneth worth when considering the amunt of detail you have just been exposed to.....I think you should be looking at something a little more than a 400Watt PS for your new piece of kit :D

[Deimos01]

Ya, you want to go with a 450w power supply at least. Im not going to go into much details here but you want to build with a mind towards upgrade-ability. Much of the stuff that is out now is just about obsolete. You want a mother board that can handle DDR2 memory and PCI-e slots. Dual core processors seem to be the rage now, altho Im not to much up on them atm.

DDR, AGP and PCI are all going the way of the dinosaur. You can still get new components that support all that, but that will be it. Not much room for future upgrades.

As for ATI vs Nvidia... well, you get as many different opinions on them as there are people on this forum. I used to always run nvidia but I just recently bought a radeon x1300 pro since it was the best I could find for an AGP slot and the price was good. I like it just fine.

The vid card was the last upgrade Im going to get out of my current rig. Which is 4 years old now. Next is going to be another complete rebuild with all the new generation hardware so I can upgrade that for another 4-5 years. :damn:

[graybeard]

What ever you do get a decent sound card with decent speakers. There is nothing like the sound of a Destroyer over head with 5.1 surround sound. It makes the game unreal...just like in the movies.:rock:

[MarshalLaw]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, true it is a lot of info to digest, however the last time I had to deal with this type of thing was 4 years ago. So from what I'm hearing I should look for a case that handles a 450 watt PS, get a Motherboard that handles PCIe slots and newest generation processors, also that is Vista friendly. Sounds like DDR2 Ram is the way to go as well. Because it makes sense to get the best core stuff that will serve me well for the next 3-4 years. Anything I may have missed chime in, I don't mind shifting through info so I make a wise decision. As for single and Dual processors, I take it that Duals will be the wave of the future, or is that it is just the lastest rage?

As for Sound and Vid cards and the rest, I can go with slightly older Technology and upgrade later on once better stuff comes out. Sounds like I'm on the right track there Guys and Gal?

[Potoroo]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, true it is a lot of info to digest, however the last time I had to deal with this type of thing was 4 years ago. So from what I'm hearing I should look for a case that handles a 450 watt PS,
You should NOT be focussing on the claimed total wattage of the PSU. That is so last century.

You need to focus on its real 12v capacity. More and more devices are 12v these days and higher-end video cards are notoriously power hungry. Having said that, people tend to vastly overestimate their power requirements. You need to get the specs on the other components first and then generate a 12v estimate from that. There's certainly no harm in building in some headroom but too many people seem to just pick a number out of the air.

You can get a reasonable first approximation of your power requirements at http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp.
get a Motherboard that handles PCIe slots and newest generation processors, also that is Vista friendly.
You'll have a harder time finding a motherboard with AGP than PCIe, as PCIe is the current standard. Most PCIe motherboards also come with 3 PCI slots for legacy cards.

Note that the more recent chipsets are reducing their support for PATA and increasing support for SATA. For example, the nForce5 only supports one PATA channel (was two with the nForce4), meaning you can only have 2 IDE devices instead of 4, but you can have up to 6 SATA devices instead of 4. Most CD/DVD drives are still PATA but most HDs these days are SATA, which is a fine thing as they're faster and the SATA cables are vastly easier to work with and don't block your case's air flow. Having said that, don't be conned by the SATA 150MB/s v SATA II 300MB/s "spec". They are potential burst numbers that have sod all to do with sustained throughput rates, which are about the same for both SATA and SATA II as they're limited by the disk's inability to supply data at such speeds. The price difference between SATA and SATA II has come down markedly but if you do get an SATA II you'll never notice any performance difference on the desktop.

For hard disks I'd stay clear of Maxtor. I believe they've fixed their SATA NCQ bug they refused to admit existed that was causing conflicts with ASUS motherboards, but Seagate have a better warranty anyway. Seagate or WD for your HD (I use Seagate although I have days when I lust after a WD Raptor). The Benq 1650 DVD-RW is a well regarded unit if you're after a budget item. I use a Sony DRU810A myself. Light-scribe is a wank. Save your money.
Sounds like DDR2 Ram is the way to go as well. Because it makes sense to get the best core stuff that will serve me well for the next 3-4 years.
The AMD AM2 and Intel Conroe CPUs both use DDR2, and there's less price difference between DDR and DDR2 than you seem to think there is. If you're not overclocking then you should be fine with any of the brand name's "value" lines. Try to stretch to 2G if you can. SH3 will appreciate it.

Much as I hate to say it, if you're buying today then the Conroes do have the performance edge (we'll have to wait and see if the 2nd generation AM2s with the K8L architecture get back in the hunt early next year).
As for single and Dual processors, I take it that Duals will be the wave of the future, or is that it is just the lastest rage?
Multicore is here to stay. Single-cores are dead. They just don't know it yet.
As for Sound and Vid cards and the rest, I can go with slightly older Technology and upgrade later on once better stuff comes out. Sounds like I'm on the right track there Guys and Gal?
Yes and no. For SH3 you'd get away with onboard sound but not onboard graphics. With video chipsets there's a rule of thumb that says the more hyperbole is in the name the less performance they have. That means if you want decent 3D performance avoid Intel's "Extreme" or "Express" onboard graphics chipsets like the plague. Nvidia's 6200-TurboCache is moderately better as onboard graphics go. That might be able to play SH3 with some of the graphics settings turned down. Be aware that one reason onboard grahics are so slow is they come with very little dedicated video memory and instead take great chunks of your ordinary system memory.

The impending release of DX10 makes this is an interesting time to be buying a video card. Any of the current mid-range and up PCIe graphics cards will play SH3 quite happily. That roughly means Geforce 6600GT/6800GS and up. They'll also cope with Vista's Aero interface. The big question is how much you spend now if you're planning on upgrading to DX10 capability later. IOW, how long will you be content to stay with DX9? Given that Vista will launch without DX10 and the first generation DX10 cards are monsters (the Nvidia G80 GPU is set for launch in early November and the reference cards are hyuuuuge and hungry; expect ATI's first efforts to be much the same), my answer would be you'll probably be with DX9 for at least a year. My best guess at this stage is that something like a Geforce 7600GT/GS would be a good balance. They're decent cards without being ultra-high end, reasonably priced and will cope with most things people will throw at them (Oblivion doesn't count).

As for Nvidia v ATI, if you gave me an ATI card I'd give it away or sell it to some sucker on ebay. Don't be fooled by the ultra-expensive, ultra-high end Radeon X1900 XTX that currently has the edge in Nvidia and ATI's endless see-saw over who has the fastest card. You can't afford it anyway on your budget. One reason Nvidia was twice the size of ATI before AMD bought them out is that for several years now Nvidia has consistently provided more bang per price point than ATI. The other reason is that ATI's drivers suck bilge water.

[HunterICX]

:hmm: Also potoroo
I have seen a lot of buggy pics in BF2 when the graphics went totally crazy on an Ati card. wierd colors, particles missing..well actually the pic said something like ''Sorry ATI has died''

and they break down a bit to much for my liking.

[GT182]

Here's my 2 cents. ;) Go with whatever you're comfortable with and can afford. But, everyone has their own opinion, you have to make the choice yourself.

SATA or SATA2 is very good choice. The newest SATA2 I believe, tranfers data at 3mb/sec versus 1.33 for IDE and 1.5 for SATA. Go with an OCZ 512 PSU as they are the most stable power supplies on the market. Ask the guys at Magnum-PC if you don't believe me. ;) And the X1900Pro 512mb card is the best so far IMO. But remember, the newer GFX cards will be coming out that support DX10. Games will be going that route, and FSX is one of the first to do so, that's to get the best out of the sim. And last.. the Plextor DVD drives/burners are some of the best too.

[Potoroo]

Here's my 2 cents. Go with whatever you're comfortable with and can afford. But, everyone has their own opinion, you have to make the choice yourself.
It's true everyone has their own opinion. However, some opinions are based on many years of experience in IT. And some aren't.
The newest SATA2 I believe, tranfers data at 3mb/sec versus 1.33 for IDE and 1.5 for SATA.
You're confusing theoretical bus rates with sustained throughput rates. Your average 7200rpm home HD simply can't provide data fast enough to sustain 3Gb/s (300MB/s). They can't even sustain 1.5Gb/s (150MB/s). My Seagate ST3200826AS 7200.8 SATA drive peaks at 67MB/s and averages 54MB/s on HD Tach's Sequential Read benchmark and it's a pretty good performer in its class. Once the disk cache is empty you lose the burst rate performance.
the Plextor DVD drives/burners are some of the best too.
Plextor have a premium brand name among CD/DVD manufacturers and charge accordingly. They've also been among the first to bring out SATA DVD drives but that's purely for convenience of installation and provides no actual performance benefit as a 16x DVD drive is even slower than a 7200rpm HD. That's why DVD drives still use Ultra DMA Mode 2 (ATA/33). The Plextor SATA DVD drives have also been the focus of numerous compatibility complaints.

[MarshalLaw]

Very good info thanks. I'm still digesting but I moving some of my choices to Dual processors and DDR2 RAM. Yes it will up my cost some but in the long run I will have a good system for the next 3 -4 years , with only having to upgrade the vid card and such so that when directX10 comes I'm still good to go.

Thanks alot all, you've been a big help:rock: