Nazism in Germany on the march

[Skybird]

In recent state election in the East, Neonazi party members have massively intimidated stands and politicians especially of the two left parties throughout the region, while a number of stands got vandalised and people got attacked and beaten. All this unhidden - and unoposed by local residents. Several incidents even were caught on film, but the TV cameras did not stop the Nazi mobsters. Nazi violence and intimidation is also spreading at oublic school, especially in the East, and a huge number of small villages and small city communities are known that are ruled by tyranny of local Nazi gangs.

It seems that the lacking economical "Aufschwung" in the East, and the dying perspectives of young people, produces plenty of fertile ground for Nazism. In Eastern states, we know of communities were up to 40% of local residents support Nazism, and vote correspondingly. In the West, growing anger at growing levels of "Ausländer" and spreading Islam also plays a role.

This is the background for these two articles:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,442447,00.html (only one example of many, unfortunately)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,437593,00.html (on the elections last month)

Will Germany's fate be to get pulverized in friction between the extremism of Nazism and the extremism of Islam? Neither the church nor the political institutions seem to be aware of what is going on. Almost all social representaives seem to have only one thing on their mind: to talk things smooth, and to express how optimistic they are. And that a huge and clear majority of Germans in general oppose the idea or ongoing immigration of foreigners, especially from Muslim countries, while politicians ignore that and propagate policies that enforce directly opposite developements does not help ro limit growing radicalisation.

[The Avon Lady]

I recall my warnings of this on another forum some 2-3 years ago being shrugged off as the usual Jewish paranoia.

Suprise - not. :nope:

[Skybird]

Sounds familiar to me. I too am observing these developements since 3 or 4 years with growing concerns, but where mentioning it in forums or in real life, just bgetb laughed at, and getting called a pessimist. "Germany now is a democracy!", that is the magical formula to ban any unwanted thoughts.

[AG124]

I believe I read an article not long ago in which the author stated that right-wing extremists comparable to neo-nazis were recently elected in a German federal election. Is this true, or just an exaggeration?

Do you think this could be an eventual danger elsewhere in the West - if populations finally become so afraid of and disgusted with Islam there could be a wave of extreme right-wing governments coming into power?:o That not a future to look forward to...:nope:

EDIT - here is the article, and another similar one.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1603874.ece

http://www.rickross.com/reference/neonazis/neonazis46.html

Also interesting:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_World&set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1160757721741B265

[The Avon Lady]

Do you think this could be an eventual danger elsewhere in the West - if populations finally become so afraid of and disgusted with Islam there could be a wave of extreme right-wing governments coming into power?:o That not a future to look forward to...:nope:
While that is a definite possibility, you should be aware that neo-Nazis and Muslims go hand in hand: search for "neo-nazis" @ JihadWatch (http://www.jihadwatch.org/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=neo-nazis).

[Gizzmoe]

Do you think this could be an eventual danger elsewhere in the West - if populations finally become so afraid of and disgusted with Islam there could be a wave of extreme right-wing governments coming into power?:o That not a future to look forward to...:nope:

The rise of Nazis in Germany has not much to do with Islam. As a matter of fact many of them like radical Muslim countries, since they fight against the evil Jews ("the enemy of my enemy is my friend"). There are also not many Muslims in the Eastern part of Germany, the vast majority lives in West Germany where Nazis are almost non-existant.

[The Noob]

It's the same in the neibor country, austria. Total *******tards like BZÖ and FPÖ, official partys there get more and more voters every election. This sucks.

[Skybird]

I believe I read an article not long ago in which the author stated that right-wing extremists comparable to neo-nazis were recently elected in a German federal election. Is this true, or just an exaggeration?

Do you think this could be an eventual danger elsewhere in the West - if populations finally become so afraid of and disgusted with Islam there could be a wave of extreme right-wing governments coming into power?:o That not a future to look forward to...:nope:

1st question: Yes. the NPD has been present in seven state paliamants in the late 60s and early 70, and currently is present in one or two (hu, I really don't know it exactly currently! :oops: ) of the five Eastern states. The NPD describes itself as "nationalistic", but the Verfassungsschutz rates it as extreme radical rightwing, and dropouts gave descriptions of internal proceedings that make it clear that the NPD sees itself as the successor of the traditons of the Nazis and Hitler.

2nd question: Yes. In the past years Neonazis were arrogant enough to think that they could master Islam and thus cooperated with Islamic extremists, since both ideologies are hostile towards western constitutions and democracies they saw Islam as a natural ally of similiar ruthlessness, but in the immediate past they seem to have learned that they were wrong in that assumption and became aware of the immense power of Islam that hardly ever would be controllable by a fascist social order under world views as outlined by Hitler. They now take strong stands against Islam again, although they do not tend to make an explicit difference between hostility towards Islam and hostility towards "Ausländer" in general. but the cooperation in the underground seems to have faded out. This I did not only read about, but received some insider info from a BKA man that I know.

[The Noob]

Sounds familiar to me. I too am observing these developements since 3 or 4 years with growing concerns, but where mentioning it in forums or in real life, just bgetb laughed at, and getting called a pessimist. "Germany now is a democracy!", that is the magical formula to ban any unwanted thoughts.

Agreed. Everyone ridicules me in austrian forums, but it's true. FPÖ+BZÖ=Nazi=NPD!

[Skybird]

(hu, I really don't know it exactly currently! :oops: )

Here it is:
2004 Sachsen-Anhalt 9.2% ,
2006 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern 7.3%,
overall trend since German reunification: slow but constant increases in most states.

Also see wikipedia.

[STEED]

Here's a British view point or should I say my own on what's going on here in England, we have a right wing party called the BNP who have some seats on councils up in north they use the immigration problem and twist the facts. They effetely are saying all immigrates are Muslims which is not true, they are using the race card as well and saying there are too many black people in the country. I am amazed at how some people can fall for this rubbish.

But you have too take in to account our most resent Labour government that has fiddled the figures on immigration and bent over backwards for Muslims, no wonder people turn to and support the BNP. They have no answers to the problems in England all they do is prey on peoples fears, what I can see is the return of the race riots of the 1980's.

I have a strange feeling this is all part of something even bigger and much more sinister. Wrong thinking from the government is playing in to the hands of both sides we are seeing early signs of things to come. I don’t have ground level information on other countries and there problems with right wing moments, only what I see on the news. Skybird, has given in sights to what’s going on in Germany and there dose seem to be something going on in Europe.

[CB..]

here is IMO the true source and danger of Political Correctness ...
it is based entirely on fear...it undermines the publics general trust in their own thoughts feelings and ability to make decent judgements..it allso severely restricts their (our) ability to speak out..for fear..of being seen as politically incorrect..it introduces us and maintains a system where-by we have become used to being ruled by those who can and do either make us afraid..or by deciet or subtefuge can make themselves appear to be un-afraid (read that in youth culture terms as "cool"..perhaps another story)

so we react to fear with subservience and passive acceptance..instead of rejecting it and it's precepts with the contempt they deserve,....the Nazi's perfected this system of population control and manipulation...it is no surprise that they (or similar) should thrive under this regime ..


i say again..that in Nazi germany the holocaust WAS Politically Correct...

[AG124]

In Canada, I believe I have heard more polls are showing a growing distrust for Muslims by the rest of the population. Can't find one at the moment though, and although I have heard similar things about other countries I can't confirm that either.:-?

[Gizzmoe]

(hu, I really don't know it exactly currently! :oops: )
Here it is:
2004 Sachsen-Anhalt 9.2% ,
2006 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern 7.3%,
overall trend since German reunification: slow but constant increases in most states.

Also see wikipedia.
2005 Northrhine-Westphalia 0.9%. And that´s Germany´s largest state, it also has the largest population of Muslims and foreigners percentage-wise.

Sure, 0.9% is still too much, but I bet that at least 80% of their voters are not Nazis and don´t actually hate foreigners, they were just unhappy with the current government and the economy.

[fredbass]

"Germany now is a democracy!", that is the magical formula to ban any unwanted thoughts.

I don't know why you must always make statements which have no merit.

Now please don't take that as a flame, but rather, why don't you actually tell us something that is true. :ping:

[Skybird]

(hu, I really don't know it exactly currently! :oops: )
Here it is:
2004 Sachsen-Anhalt 9.2% ,
2006 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern 7.3%,
overall trend since German reunification: slow but constant increases in most states.

Also see wikipedia.
2005 Northrhine-Westphalia 0.9%. And that´s Germany´s largest state, it also has the largest population of Muslims and foreigners percentage-wise.

Sure, 0.9% is still too much, but I bet that at least 80% of their voters are not Nazis and don´t actually hate foreigners, they were just unhappy with the current government and the economy.

Yes, but I stick to my statement that overall there is a small but constant gaion for the NPD since german reunification. Like i also said that there is a difference between West and East. Additonally, the NPD is only the most wellknown Neonazi organisation. There are several others as well, although none of them candidates during elections. Int the east there have repeatedly been reports from communities and small cities/cillages where sympathies and silent tolerance for NPD policies are reported to reach 30 and even 40% of local population.

From German wikipedia, "NPD": Note the election results 1966 to 1972. then came a long pause of almost insignificance, and then after reunificationa a second "revival", this time not in the West, but in the East. Sneaking Nazi paroles, btw, is a problem at Eastern as well as Western schools. Last year and the year vbefore we also had several reports about Nazism present and slowly advancing within the bundeswehr.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPD the table at the bottom of the article

[Skybird]

"Germany now is a democracy!", that is the magical formula to ban any unwanted thoughts.

I don't know why you must always make statements which have no merit.

Now please don't take that as a flame, but rather, why don't you actually tell us something that is true. :ping:

Hm? Did you say something?

[TteFAboB]

Fascist parties in Germany, France, Austria, England and Italy have discovered that since NOBODY ELSE has the balls to raise a voice against Muslim immigration and Islam, if they do it they might catch some of these ears.

And it seems to work. These supporters don't realize that their opposition to Muslims is completely strategic and a side-issue just to score votes. That's actually how the original Nazis went from a minor representation to absolute majority, by fooling the people.

So do not silence, critic of Islam. If you allow the PC voices to silence you there will only be fascist voices left to oppose it and they will catch the votes instead.

Oh, but just a little dictatorial pressure is worth to corner Islam right? No it's not because if you elect these people they will do everything they can to remain in power, they do not believe they should step out if that's the wish of the people. The people only matters as long as they live according to the party's plan, obey and vote on them.

[Gizzmoe]

Yes, but I stick to my statement that overall there is a small but constant gaion for the NPD since german reunification. [..] Int the east there have repeatedly been reports from communities and small cities/cillages where sympathies and silent tolerance for NPD policies are reported to reach 30 and even 40% of local population.
Yep, but that doesn´t worry me (yet). The NPD is powerless and unprofessional. AFAIK there isn´t a single case where the NPD has managed to improve the situation (more jobs, better infrastructure, ...) in areas where they have large support. But that´s what people want.

Slogans alone are not enough, they need to show that they can get things done. If they show that they can indeed improve things in a major way in their areas, things that the four major parties weren´t able to do, I will get nervous, because that will likely result in a popularity boost throughout the country thanks to their propaganda machine.

[Skybird]

Yes, but I stick to my statement that overall there is a small but constant gaion for the NPD since german reunification. [..] Int the east there have repeatedly been reports from communities and small cities/cillages where sympathies and silent tolerance for NPD policies are reported to reach 30 and even 40% of local population.
Yep, but that doesn´t worry me (yet). The NPD is powerless and unprofessional. AFAIK there isn´t a single case where the NPD has managed to improve the situation (more jobs, better infrastructure, ...) in areas where they have large support. But that´s what people want.
The young ones are more easily to impress, I'm afraid - and less rational. Poverty teaches either religion, or extremism, as the old knowledge tells us. And sometimes both, then one has some kind of a fanatised, missionary spirit, plus tunnel vision. Dangerous combination.
Slogans alone are not enough, they need to show that they can get things done. If they show that they can indeed improve things in a major way in their areas, things that the four major parties weren´t able to do, I will get nervous, because that will likely result in a popularity boost throughout the country thanks to their propaganda machine.
The NPD is only something like a needle in a gauge, I think. For everyone having the "guts" to vote them 8and not doing it for protest, but by conviction), there are several ones that silently sympathizes with them. This is what I think about. If the election results would really represent all Nazi-sympathizers there are, then we would be able to safely ignore them and watch them making fools of themselves. But I think the idea of nazism has an influence beyond what is indicated in those numbers, and it silently and slowly creeps forward, at least in the East. Attached to Nazism is organized crime, which probabaly currently is the most effective negative result it's presence is causing.

Concerning antisemitism, which also should be mentioned in this thread, maybe, I have no clear opinion on how big it is in Germany. Sometimes one could get the impression there is quite some ammount of it, but on the other hand judaic organisations, namely the Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland, trigger enough antipathic, if not allergic reactions that even many Jews in Germany seem to distance themselves from them , at least ignore them. So to what degree "anti-semitism" is really a hostility towards Jews, or just antipathy towards a single organisation, I find hard to judge. I remember to have red comments by german correspindents in Israel that even the Israeli goivernment sometimes showed cautious irritation about something said by the Zentralrat. And the personnel they choose to represent them, often does not help to raise them any additinal sympathies - Michel Friedman and einz Galinski for example really are (were) perceived as polarizing the German public, to say the least. Current president Charlotte Knobloch seem to continue their tradition.

[kiwi_2005]

We have two nazi wannabies organisations in NZ the "National Front" and "Unit88" In the late 70's their was a Nazi party that got 36 votes :rotfl: Now and then they do their peace march up christchruch main street on a sunday, preaching about asians overrunning NZ. last time this happened they were attacked by asians. Their policy - to rid NZ of Asians and other undesirables, so the white man can make peace with the true land owners the Maori will be as one and rule the country. For some reason they side with the maoris.
We maoris are not white! :rotfl: