14-year old girl arrested by agents

[Skybird]

http://www.welt.de/data/2006/10/14/1071835.html

This refers to an article from Friday in the Sacramento Bee, for which i do not have subscribed. A 14-year old girl had participated in a photographic collage of school children, showing Bush with a knife in his hand, and wriotten below was "Kill Bush". short after the site went online, agents of national security appeared in biology lessons and arrestzed her and led her away. During interrogation she did not allow to get intimidated (:up:) and insisted on not having planned to assassinate Bush, but wanting to protest against his policy, and that she completely dislike him. she said that she herself were a peace-loving person. the father of her said that while he does not accept a behavior like it was shown by his daughter when writing that subtitle, he also does not accept the behavior of the police and agents, brandmarking their action as exaggerated.

Hm, what was it with news-essages about routinely fingerprinting schoolchildren in Western countries, routinely taking genetic samples of them, and the widening of use of ID chips attached to clothing?

[Coda]

In the US it's against the law to threaten anyones life.

It's against Federal law, the highest and most severe, to threaten the Presidents life. The US Secret Service, tasked with protecting the President, investigates all threats aimed at him.

"Arrested" is a term where the person is being detained. If you are stopped for a traffic violation, your freedom of movement is temporarily suspended, so technically you were "arrested".

It's not like they put her in prison for the threat, which is technically against the law. They just questioned her and investigated the threat. They have to, it's their job.

[goldorak]

Wow so if I say kill Bush I will see hords of secret agents crossing the atlantic and sending me off to guantanamo or even some middle eastern country were i will get tortured ? :roll:
That is just another sign that the USA has completely lost its perspective on the modern world and society after the 2001 terrorist attacks.
What about the so called freedom of speech americans are so proud of ?
Arresting and interrogating a 14 year old girl as if she were a terrorist.
What has the world come to ?

[The Avon Lady]

What about the so called freedom of speech americans are so proud of ?
What about it? Still very proud of it.

US freedom of speech laws are not an open license to advocate murder or to shout "fire" in a crowded theater.

I don't have any problems with this incident.

[ASWnut101]

no, if you did that out of country, you wouldn't be "hauled off to gitmo."

but if you are an american citizen, thats the law (what coda said).
You can't threaten ANYBODY'S life here, no matter who it is. just the way it is.

[goldorak]

Give me a break, the little girl wasn't threatening anybody's life.
I'm completely astounded to see people in this thread that consider normal what happened to her.
American reactions are dicated by fear not by rationale.
Its as if the terrorists attacks in 2001 scared a very young nation, and now they have completely lost it.
The american government is lashing out at anybody under the impulse of fear.

[The Avon Lady]

Give me a break, the little girl wasn't threatening anybody's life.
And you automatically knew this how?

Glad that this was much ado about nothing. So was investigating the girl.

[Coda]

I only commented because I had a contact similar to this before.

While at work, two Secret Service agents approached me and asked me questions about a member of my staff. At first I thought it was a joke. Being approached by federal agents is something you see in movies, doesn’t happen very often. This was real.

This apparently “normal” person who worked amongst us was a member of a group called, (hmmm, maybe better to leave out the name). They planned on killing everyone in the Congress and Senate, then killing the president and overthrowing the US government.

The Secret Service was investigating his ties with the group and interviewed those of us who worked with him. It was quite disturbing.

Later that day I asked him if he was a member of this group. He said yes.

I told him it might be better to go practice on some third world country before deciding to eliminate one of the most powerful governments on earth.

Then I fired him. Not because he was a member of the group, because his actions created a disruption in the workplace and made those around him [and me] very uncomfortable.

[Coda]

Give me a break, the little girl wasn't threatening anybody's life.


They had to check. Should they just ignore every threat? They had to investigate, and that's what they did. It's not like they tortured her, which does happen in other countries.


I'm completely astounded to see people in this thread that consider normal what happened to her.


Nobody said it was normal. It's just procedure.



American reactions are dicated by fear not by rationale.


This reaction was dictated by law. The Secret Service has to investigate EVERY threat to the president.


The american government is lashing out at anybody under the impulse of fear.

I think everyone is just lashing out at America every chance they get. Taking a minor investigation like this and blowing it out of proportion.

Nobody was harmed, just questioned. If the same thing happened anywhere else, it wouldn't have been a headline.

[SUBMAN1]

I don't understand how people think that threatening the pres's life is not against the law? Try threatening the life of your own countries PM or Pres (posting it on the web for all to see of course!) and see what happens to you! I bet the US is nice as compared to many other countries!!!

-S

[Fish]

I don't understand how people think that threatening the pres's life is not against the law? Try threatening the life of your own countries PM or Pres (posting it on the web for all to see of course!) and see what happens to you! I bet the US is nice as compared to many other countries!!!

-S

Nothing wil happend to you in the Netherlands, well no arrest. :shifty:

[TteFAboB]

She got what she asked for. In her conception of the world, the opposition does not exist: it must be killed, eliminated, erradicated. Anybody who disagrees with this girl should be put to the knife. She does not guarantee the right of freedom of expression to anybody else but her.

I expect to hear from her again in 20 years or so, after she converts to Islam since Al-Qaeda probably has just found the replacement for Azzam the American.

Now, I guess she's being used as an example, or are they going after every kill Bush website owner out there? I expect her to be released with no charges, if the SS decides to take further action, then I'll have to start sending letters and e-mails daily to them pointing at CAIR & Friends where real assassins and terrorists can be found. These are currently walking free on the streets next to thousands of 14 year old girls.

I'd like to see the rest of the collages too and similar projects elsewhere, it would be extremely unfair if this is the outcome of a demented Arts & Crafts teacher.

Anyway, in my opinion the government, SS included, should stay far away from any school. The concern should be with the teachers who incite hatred or turn the classrooms into re-education camps. The rest of society can take care of the rest of it, thank you very much, no need for the state to interfere.

[Sea Demon]

The Secret Service has been tasked to do these kind of investigations for decades. I don't know why it's such a shock now. I can only guess why it's being highlighted now however. :shifty:

[IceGrog]

US freedom of speech comes with costs, one of the costs is one stills needs to follow the law. As others have already said, here in the USA it’s against the law to threaten someone’s life.
“Give me a break, the little girl wasn't threatening anybody's life.” Again our country is one of laws, if it lets one get away with breaking the law then all would have the right to say why can’t I get away with it.

“I'm completely astounded to see people in this thread that consider normal what happened to her.” You make it sound like they took her out side and had her shot

I have more to say but some of you have already said it better.

[VON_CAPO]

Give me a break, the little girl wasn't threatening anybody's life.
I'm completely astounded to see people in this thread that consider normal what happened to her.
American reactions are dicated by fear not by rationale.
Its as if the terrorists attacks in 2001 scared a very young nation, and now they have completely lost it.
The american government is lashing out at anybody under the impulse of fear.
I agree.
Sadly, as you can see, there is plenty of fascist actitudes around.
And the worst thing is that there are a lot of "spin doctors" supporting this. :nope::nope::nope::nope::nope:

[The Avon Lady]

Sadly, as you can see, there is plenty of fascist actitudes around.
Maybe you should know what words mean before employing them: Fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism).
And the worst thing is that there are a lot of "spin doctors" supporting this. :nope::nope::nope::nope::nope:
Now there's a classic spin.

[VON_CAPO]

Maybe you should know what words mean before employing them: Fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism).
Authoritarianism sounds to you? :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
(belief in total submission to government authority)

Usually history had teached that authoritarianism is the first step to tyranny.

[Sea Demon]

Maybe you should know what words mean before employing them: Fascism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism).
Authoritarianism sounds to you? :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
(belief in total submission to government authority)

Ussualy history had teached that authoritarianism is the first step to tyranny.

What country do you come from Von Capo? Have you ever even visited the USA? Do you even know what the Secret Service is and what it's tasked to do? And how long it's been doing it? Or are you just a slave to hysteria, and misinformation?

[cobalt]

She got what she asked for. In her conception of the world, the opposition does not exist: it must be killed, eliminated, erradicated. Anybody who disagrees with this girl should be put to the knife. She does not guarantee the right of freedom of expression to anybody else but her.

I expect to hear from her again in 20 years or so, after she converts to Islam since Al-Qaeda probably has just found the replacement for Azzam the American.



I don't even think I have to explain myself.

[VON_CAPO]

I don't even think I have to explain myself.
:yep::yep::yep:, This people is amazing.
I am not sure what to think, if I am posting in a nest of rightists, or; if they need to travel around the world, to know what is going on outside their home. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[Sea Demon]

I don't even think I have to explain myself.
:yep::yep::yep:, This people is amazing.
I am not sure what to think, if I am posting in a nest of rightists, or, they need to travel around the world to know what is going on. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

Have you been to the USA, Von Capo? I've been to Europe. In fact, I've lived there when I was stationed in Germany. I know PC madness and authoritarian policies when I see it.

I suggest you get your passport ready and get educated yourself. ;)

[SimNut]

I think everyone is just lashing out at America every chance they get. Taking a minor investigation like this and blowing it out of proportion.

America bashing in international forums has become a hobby for the ignorant. Perfect example of what you said, taking things out of context and blowing it out of proportion.

[VON_CAPO]

Have you been to the USA, Von Capo? I've been to Europe. In fact, I've lived there when I was stationed in Germany. I know PC madness and authoritarian policies when I see it.

I suggest you get your passport ready and get educated yourself. ;) Demon, I have a high consideration about you.

But, to live in USA is not necessary to know what is correct and what is absurd.
By the way, I had travel many, many miles across your country, I had been in many States and visited many veteran legions.

And this replay is broadcasted from NYC (FYI).

So, I must dismiss your suggestion.

[Iceman]

Skybird sniffing for dirty laundry again...what's new lol.Too Much..stop stop...your killing me....:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Have you been to the USA, Von Capo? I've been to Europe. In fact, I've lived there when I was stationed in Germany. I know PC madness and authoritarian policies when I see it.

I suggest you get your passport ready and get educated yourself. ;)
Demon, I have a high consideration about you.
But, to live in USA is not necessary to know what is correct and what is absurd.
By the way, I had travel many, many miles across your country, I have been in many States and visited many veteran legions.

So, I must dismiss your suggestion.

OK. Just wondering. We'll have to disagree then. I don't think it's absurd or incorrect to protect the President, and other foreign leaders. I value the mission of the Secret Service, and think their response was appropriate. And it's nothing new.

http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/index.shtml

They've been doing this a long time. Even if you disagree with it, your characterization of people who value this mission as fascists is way over the top, uncalled for, and totally false.

[VON_CAPO]

OK. Just wondering. We'll have to disagree then. I don't think it's absurd or incorrect to protect the President, and other foreign leaders. I value the mission of the Secret Service, and think their response was appropriate. And it's nothing new.

To protect the President :up:

To target citizens because they think or manifest :down::down::down::down::down:

[SUBMAN1]

OK. Just wondering. We'll have to disagree then. I don't think it's absurd or incorrect to protect the President, and other foreign leaders. I value the mission of the Secret Service, and think their response was appropriate. And it's nothing new.

To protect the President :up:

To target citizens because they think or manifest :down::down::down::down::down:

Woahh!!! Do you even know what you are talking about? What you are suggesting is to say it is OK to incite revolt, regardless her age. The response by the Secret Service seems a little less than what I would expect even. I seriously doubt there is a country out there that would tolerate this and not take equal or more action. For the US, this has been law for over 200 years!!! Regardless who it is, and regardless if the politician is Democrat, Republican, or Independant, the Secret Service must do this job!!! This is a must for national survival of any nation. Try that in China for example - she would be dead tomorrow!

-S

[Skybird]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.

[SUBMAN1]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.

Hmm - imagine Al Qeada using 10 year old girls to get their message across without conviction then. Doesn't take too many brains to figure out that this is not a good idea.

[VON_CAPO]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.
:yep::yep::yep::yep:. That is the reason because I called them fascist.

And I made emphasis in what is correct and what is absurd.

[VON_CAPO]

It is hard to believe that all this people live in the occidental world and thinks like arabs.:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[SUBMAN1]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.
:yep::yep::yep::yep:. That is the reason because I called them fascist.

And I made emphasis in what is correct and what is absurd.

It's OK. We forgive your ignorance.

[VON_CAPO]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say. :yep::yep::yep::yep:. That is the reason because I called them fascist.

And I made emphasis in what is correct and what is absurd.
It's OK. We forgive your ignorance.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:Tkank you!!! :up:

[Takeda Shingen]

In today's age of terrorism, great precautions must be taken when dealing with the threats, whether real or percieved, to public officials. In this case it is the public official, ie the President of the United States. With that stated, the purpose of all political protest is to encourage public action, whether it be voting for a particular candidate, not paying your income taxes, dumping tea into Boston harbor or, in this case, assasination. If the subtitle reads, 'Vote Democrat in 06', then we do not have a problem. The assumption is that the originator of this sign wants a change in political majority. However, the inscription read, 'Kill Bush'. One must seriously consider that this is the goal: Inciting the murder of the nation's chief executive. A 14-year old is self-aware enough to know what he or she is saying, especially those who are politically savy enough to coordinate a protest campaign. I know, as I teach them. As such, any citizen who acts in this manner should be investigated.

[VON_CAPO]

A 14-year old is self-aware enough to know what he or she is saying, especially those who are politically savy enough to coordinate a protest campaign. I know, as I teach them. As such, any citizen who acts in this manner should be investigated.
If every adolescent should go into investigation because thinks to kill somebody, our homes would be jails.

C'mon a little bit of common sense, please. :yep::yep::yep:

[Sea Demon]

In today's age of terrorism, great precautions must be taken when dealing with the threats, whether real or percieved, to public officials. In this case it is the public official, ie the President of the United States. With that stated, the purpose of all political protest is to encourage public action, whether it be voting for a particular candidate, not paying your income taxes, dumping tea into Boston harbor or, in this case, assasination. If the subtitle reads, 'Vote Democrat in 06', then we do not have a problem. The assumption is that the originator of this sign wants a change in political majority. However, the inscription read, 'Kill Bush'. One must seriously consider that this is the goal: Inciting the murder of the nation's chief executive. A 14-year old is self-aware enough to know what he or she is saying, especially those who are politically savy enough to coordinate a protest campaign. I know, as I teach them. As such, any citizen who acts in this manner should be investigated.

And in the USA, you can say "I hate Bush with a RED-HOT PASSION". Form a website with that. Nobody will come to ask you anything. Try that one in China, only substitue Hu Jintao. Or in Iran just substitue the Ayatollah Khomeinei. You can go right to the White House and hold up your dumb little sign saying "Bush=Hitler" with a picture of Bush having that little mustache. Go do it today in D.C. . Nothing will happen to you. Try that in North Korea but substitue Kim Jong-Il. Looks like there are a few people here who need to get some education.

[Takeda Shingen]

A 14-year old is self-aware enough to know what he or she is saying, especially those who are politically savy enough to coordinate a protest campaign. I know, as I teach them. As such, any citizen who acts in this manner should be investigated.
If every adolescent should go into investigation because thinks to kill somebody, our homes would be jails.

C'mon a little bit of common sense, please. :yep::yep::yep:

Again, this is clearly not an impulsive action of an angst-filled teen. This is a coordinated political statement which, by definition, is intended to influence the action of one's fellow citizens. As such, you may, as Sea Demon stated, carry a sign that reads 'Bush=Hitler'. That would be plenty offensive to many people without crossing the line where one begins to encourage leadership change through violent means.

[TteFAboB]

She got what she asked for. In her conception of the world, the opposition does not exist: it must be killed, eliminated, erradicated. Anybody who disagrees with this girl should be put to the knife. She does not guarantee the right of freedom of expression to anybody else but her.

I expect to hear from her again in 20 years or so, after she converts to Islam since Al-Qaeda probably has just found the replacement for Azzam the American.



You sir, are a moron. I don't even think I have to explain myself.

Thank you. You don't have to explain yourself, it's the girl that has to do the talking. I'll just be a moron here and sit with the Father of the girl who also seems to disagree with her catch phrase.

[VON_CAPO]

My dear fellows.
I will have a dinner with a nice lady tonight.
I enjoyed this afternoon with you.
Keep this thread alive.
Good nite.

[goldorak]

Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.
I have not seen a single proof that this 14 year old girl is a clear and present danger to the american president.
Did she have an arms cache under her bed ?
Was she part of a terrorist organization ?
Did she incite hate and murder through conferences, myspace, etc... ?
Was she brainwashed by the men in black ?

It is a real pity to see just how much terror was infused into the american society in the last 5 years.
Notwithstanding what americans may say, the USA has lost its sense of perspective on what is important.
The 9/11 attacks, had a devastating blow at least on a subconcious level on the american people.
Its like an adult man suddenly realizing its own mortality and becomes afraid because of this realization.
Americans discovered the hard way that their country is not invincible and certainly not invulnerable.
And this, has had a devastating psychological impact on their society.
Fear has come out of 9/11.

[Sea Demon]

It is a real pity to see just how much terror was infused into the american society in the last 5 years.
Notwithstanding what americans may say, the USA has lost its sense of perspective on what is important.
The 9/11 attacks, had a devastating blow at least on a subconcious level on the american people.
Its like an adult man suddenly realizing its own mortality and becomes afraid because of this realization.
Americans discovered the hard way that their country is not invincible and certainly not invulnerable.
And this, has had a devastating psychological impact on their society.
Fear has come out of 9/11.

You have very little understanding of the American public and their psyche. We have been fed up for years with international terrorism, it's just that 9/11 was the straw that broke the camels back. Until G.W. Bush became President, we had no leadership in this realm. Clinton let multiple terrorist attacks occur with no response. Also, I think it is Europe that has lost it's sense of purpose and will to survive IMO. You won't produce babies, you allow floods of very fertile Muslim populations into your countries, you allow terrorists to influence your leadership ala Spain after the trian bombings, and you critisize those that actually work to fight radicals in the Middle East. You critisize those who actually enforce those Iraq UN resolutions you pushed so hard for after GW1. And you clearly don't understand what the Secret Service is, how they function, how long they have done this, and why.

goldorak, you're a good guy, and usually quite logical, but get real here.

[Coda]

It is a real pity to see just how much terror was infused into the american society in the last 5 years.
Notwithstanding what americans may say, the USA has lost its sense of perspective on what is important.
The 9/11 attacks, had a devastating blow at least on a subconcious level on the american people.
Its like an adult man suddenly realizing its own mortality and becomes afraid because of this realization.
Americans discovered the hard way that their country is not invincible and certainly not invulnerable.
And this, has had a devastating psychological impact on their society.
Fear has come out of 9/11.

It's funny to see people from outside the US telling us what America is like.

You’re way off base here. This has nothing to do with 911. It has everything to do with breaking the law. A crime was committed and the appropriate authority with jurisdiction was sent to investigate the crime. That’s all that happened. She was questioned.

She wasn’t imprisoned.
She wasn’t tortured.
She wasn’t harmed.

911 or not, the Secret Service would have investigated this. If it happened 20 years ago or this morning, it would be handled the same way.

If she threatened to kill her neighbor, the local police would do the investigation. Since she threatened or suggested the killing of the president, it becomes a case for the Secret Service. That’s how it works.

What really amazes me is that far worse atrocities occur daily around the globe, are reported by credible news sources, yet everyone turns focus to the poor little girl in the US.


US bashing is a hobby for the truly ignorant.

[waste gate]

Just a few of items. It is a federal crime to threaten the life of the President of the United States. This law is in place for good reason; Abraham Lincoln, James A. Garfield, William McKinley and John F. Kennedy. Wars have started because of assassination, World War One comes to mind. The law does not differentiate due to age, race, political affiliaion, or creed. The law is the law and all persons in the US are subject to the same law per the 14th Ammendment to the Constitution.

Lastly, but not least, teenagers are certainly not the demure innocent children we might like them to be.

Eric Hainstock, 15, a student charged in the shooting death of his school principal was a normal teenager but often bragged about getting into trouble, a neighbor said.
Jeff Weise,16, shot ten people in Minnesota.
Charles Andrew Williams, 15, attack on fellow students and teachers at a San Diego area high school, which left two dead and 13 wounded.

These are but three examples, there are many more. Age is not an aliby.

[SUBMAN1]

[quote=Skybird]Thank you all for lighting the fire so that I can warm my cold bones by it. Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles - you are aware of that, yes?! Jetzt laßt die Kirche mal im Dorf... That girl is the most harmless assassin of all assassins there are. Ten years sentence at maximum, I say.
I have not seen a single proof that this 14 year old girl is a clear and present danger to the american president.
Did she have an arms cache under her bed ?
Was she part of a terrorist organization ?
Did she incite hate and murder through conferences, myspace, etc... ?
Was she brainwashed by the men in black ?...quote]

That is what the Secret Service does - they go and check on whether or not this is a threat. They have to, by law. Has always been that way, and this happens all the time. So what? Is that 14 year old in jail? The answer is no. So what is the issue being raised exactly? The Secret Service doing their job? Nothing happened to this girl which is why I don't understand this thread.

If you want to put it into perspecive, they have the right to jail her and keep her there for a very long time for what she did. What actually happened? Nothing.

This has to be an Anti US thread and nothing more. Just my 2 cents.

-S

[Yahoshua]

How many people here have beeon outside of their native country?

And to which countries did you go to and how long did you stay?

Did any of you stray from the "Tourist Attractions" to see the common populace or did you stay in the cozy hotels that were provided you?

I have been to Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and I plan on seeing Europe on my next foreign tour.

I spent a month in the South Pacific (early 2001 and it was not really a tourist trip in the traditional sense, but a self-tour of the East coast of the Australia and a few days in NZ), that was when I was 14 years old and was the first time on my own (without family that is, it was with a group of people in a student ambassador program called People To People). (And in case you're wondering, no I'm not rich, I did fund-raising to pay for most of the trip myself).

The Middle East I toured the next year (Mid-2002, with family), I had my 15th birthday in the artists' district just outside of Jerusalem. However, I do not plan on going back to any part of the Arab controlled territories unless I'm armed, and even then I wouldn't be comfortable going back there. I had seen enough with my own eyes to discern the truth, unclouded by naive or set-in-stone pre-concieved notions of the countries I was visiting. Did any of you ever know that arab controlled countries will refuse your entry past the border if you have an Israeli stamp on your passport? Quite friendly to their democratic neighbor aren't they?

And quite contrary to your statement Von Capo, seeing and living in a nation to see with your own eyes what life is like there is of utmost importance. Not only does this allow you to draw your own conclusions based on personal experience, but allows you to see the raw and unfiltered truth.

Shortly before the Second World War, Stalinist propaganda had showed outdated film showing lines of people waiting for bread, the poor, the dirtiness, the starvation. This they proclaimed, was America, a nation whom is unable to feed her citizens and is devoid of the life that Communism has bestowed on the great citizens of Russia. Russian peasants were starving in the countryside, ineffective collectivisation of farms were being organized, effectively destroying the status-quo of the agricultural industry, many people were shot or sent to Gulags for supposedly having loyalties to other ideals or groups than Stalin. The NKVD ruled the lives of the people, with Stalins' blessings.

When in reality, the United States was a booming industry. Standards of living was on the rise, jobs were being created under FDRs' New Deal legislations, and life was steadily improving well into the late 1930s' and beyond. The people could express their opinions, albeit to a limited degree as the remainders of racism within society had yet to be fully purged. Yet the majority of people could live without fear of voting the "wrong way" during an election, and when the peoples banded together, they had a voice for themselves.

Had any of those russian subjects been to America to see for themselves what life was like, none of them would've returned to Russia.

As for your excuses to trust the media and avoid seeing those nations for yourself is nothing less than plain ignorance. As for me. I'm not quite finished yet, but I have a feeling I may be touring NK in uniform in a few years or so, depending on the COA that our gov't takes. But I'd also like to tour Europe, Russia, East Asia, parts of the Phillipines, and perhaps Africa before I declare a final judgement of opinion on those areas. Although that window of possibility for Africa is quickly becoming smaller as the months pass without action in Sudan and elsewhere.

And to address the subject at hand:

The girl broke the law. And with murders having been committed by children her age, the threat is legitimate. If not to the President, then to her peers in the least.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/index.html

And if you'll recall, 9/11 could've been prevented had the FBI and other agencies/administrations not bungled things in such a horrifying manner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A127-2004Jul20.html

[waste gate]

I have not seen a single proof that this 14 year old girl is a clear and present danger to the american president.
Did she have an arms cache under her bed ?
Was she part of a terrorist organization ?
Did she incite hate and murder through conferences, myspace, etc... ?
Was she brainwashed by the men in black ?

That is what the Secret Service is there to find. It's called an investigation which is the Secret Service's task under the law.

If you don't like the law, call your duely elected representatve and have the law changed. Oops, I'm sorry you are from another country and cannot vote or petition your representatve, you get your jollies criticizing the US.

How's that Italian Mafia treating you? Clean up your own house, then come and criticize ours.

[Skybird]

What has gone wrong in our societies that we are so much afraid of our CHILDREN...? And no, a 14 year old is not to be expected to be fully aware of all her actions, and consequences. Even the law of western nations recognizes that, and differs below and above age of criminal responsebility, which usually is an age of 18, I think. I disagree with Takeda when he said that she is fully self-aware - at 14, you usually are not. I still wait to see a 14 year old to be like that, I frankly admit that I was not at that age, and did a lot of things and had not always realistic images on my mind what consequences it could eventually have.

What is wrong in our societies that children so often make it into our headlines? A little girl planning saying "kill the president". 16 or 18 year old that runs amok in schools and really kills people at random - and I doubt that they were mentally "clear" when doing that, and fully self-aware - the simple fact that they commited these deeds, and killed at random is a very strong indicator for me that they were not. Something has poisend their minds, somewhat.

But also the other way around: what is going wrong in our socieities that children so often become victims of adults, and even their parents? Germany currently is shocked by a whole series of cases where parents from socially critical families killed their children, even babies, with incredible brutality and cruelty, while the social offices failed due to lacking financial support, in many cases. What's going wrong there? We send soldiers around the globe in wars whose purposes are highly questionable, we spend millions and millions on nonsens events and for stupid things - but we fail on offering our own children living amongst us a worthy perpective for life? News stories of child abuses are almost regular daily news nowadays. Children get sold like regular goods, and get sold into slavery, and systematical sexual abuse for money. And we tend to deal children as potential criminals, plan to collect genetical material of them, and plan for even more governmental control over lifes, biographies, private lifes, from even younger years on, not even thinking about the many well-founded concerns about how such data could be abused by insurance companiesl. for example, or employers.

But isn't there more to it? Where does it lead? Towards a society where total control is tolerated in the name of total security? Why is total security needed so much, since in earlier times, such things seem to have happened less often? What kind of mentality will be formed, if a society accepts such measures more and more? What independence of a mind and individual can be expected to develope over the years, if the state becomes so powerful, and an individual doesnT know it any different? Total acceptance of totalitarian mechanisms? What does it mean for military policies, such an attitude that sacrifices more and more freedom for security? Total war to enforce total peace? the more we try to defend peace, the more militaristic we have become over recent years. We think we have good reason to accept that, becasue of terror and the like - but where does it lead to? are our demands maybe just - too total? The stronger our fist, the more sand we loose between our fingers, it is said in a saying. we implement more and more control and security, we cut back freedoms more and more. We more and more think in terms of black and white, total security or total war, no in-between. The other has to bend to our will, or we threaten war on him. and the other side does the same.

We are afraid of our children, we fear for our children, and more and more often we abuse and mistreat and murder children. what is it that is going terribly wrong here? Isn't there something most important, something very vital and essential missing? Less and lesser western families even raise children. fertility problems cannot explain this. It is our living style, our social environemnt, our jobs. Our society has become a hostile environment for children. children can no longer take it for granted that their parents are really fulfilling this function. The institution of families more and more is falling apart.

At the same time we misidentify the roots of these misdevelopements, and more and more governmental interference takes place, and is even demkanded. That way, future citizens more and more are raised in a habit and awareness of accepting to be dependant from the state - in that way like Northamericans often criticise European nations: socialist nanny-state, it is often called. And there is a growing ammount of truth in it. The influence of the socialists and political left becomes stronger and stronger in europe. People fall for it, for the state promises all-inclusive-care-taking, at the cost of higher and higher state deficits. It ruins the nations, but ensures loyalty of voters - idle voters who mislearn the ability not to depend on governmental care-taking. They become more and more dependant. And that means: controllable.

I often complained that I see western democracies failing and being turned into oligarchies (Europe) and plutocracies (US, and later europe as well), and nthat the traditonal state is dying and it's responsebilities and poers are takien over by private interest groups of incrtedible power and financial potency. but since some time I also see a differen trend, and in a worrying manner they seem to work hand in hand: a trend that bhides between well-meaning and good intention, that appeals to reason and wishes to be considerd as a kind, reasonable and fully-integrated friendly guy, but that löeads towards totalitarian control of society by what the state is transformed into, and that is not the type or idea of nation/state that we have grown up with. And although the final outcome is not clear, by pure instinct I feel alarmed by this developement, for my instinct tells me that it is a very severe threat that is developing.

This is the context that made me aware of that story with that girl "planning" to kill Bush. It is no america-bashing, but I perceive it as a symptom only for something very different.I don't like the way our societies are heading. Every quantum of my instincts tell me only one message: "Danger".

[Yahoshua]

For crying out loud peole use paragraphs, my eyes hurt from trying to read blocks of information all at once.

Isn't there something most important, something very vital and essential missing?

Morals, self-reliance, education, and lack of experience to name a few.

what is going wrong in our socieities that children so often become victims of adults, and even their parents?

Evil children who became parents, and raised evil children in turn. Add to this the lack and even the hate of a rigid moral standard, and an instilled knowledge between right and wrong, to love truth and hate injustice. Add still more the encouragement from those who hate truth and love an "independent" life that "you" control "yourself" and that none may instruct you how to live. Call them graqndfathers, call them teachers, call them professors, call them politicians, they're all the same.

Without guidance, blindness. Without morals, injustice. Without compassion, cruelty and brutality. Without love, hate. Without reason, insanity.This is the face of the future, look upon it, and mourn over what has been lost. Weep over the lost innocence of youth, and be terrified at the cruelty of the young. Reside in fear of your children as they hate your ideals and ways of life, even to murder you without gain. Be without peace as many lie in wait to seize you and kill you. As the sun sets, and the moon rises, so it has become the cycle of horror. Horrors without an end in sight. We are witness to the failures of our forefathers, and it is we who now reap that which was sown. Never lose hope.

[ASWnut101]

thanks skybird for making spaces, as i can read it now:up:

[Skybird]

It is the board software, it gives me troubles when using this forum. I totally and absolutely HATE it. Means double work, often.

however, an opportunity to fix some typos :lol:

[Skybird]

For crying out loud peole use paragraphs, my eyes hurt from trying to read blocks of information all at once.

Isn't there something most important, something very vital and essential missing?

Morals, self-reliance, education, and lack of experience to name a few.

what is going wrong in our socieities that children so often become victims of adults, and even their parents?

Evil children who became parents, and raised evil children in turn. Add to this the lack and even the hate of a rigid moral standard, and an instilled knowledge between right and wrong, to love truth and hate injustice. Add still more the encouragement from those who hate truth and love an "independent" life that "you" control "yourself" and that none may instruct you how to live. Call them graqndfathers, call them teachers, call them professors, call them politicians, they're all the same.

Without guidance, blindness. Without morals, injustice. Without compassion, cruelty and brutality. Without love, hate. Without reason, insanity.This is the face of the future, look upon it, and mourn over what has been lost. Weep over the lost innocence of youth, and be terrified at the cruelty of the young. Reside in fear of your children as they hate your ideals and ways of life, even to murder you without gain. Be without peace as many lie in wait to seize you and kill you. As the sun sets, and the moon rises, so it has become the cycle of horror. Horrors without an end in sight. We are witness to the failures of our forefathers, and it is we who now reap that which was sown. Never lose hope.


To me, all that are symptoms only, or "mediating variables". Not the root cause.

[Yahoshua]

To the contrary, I do believe that traumatic events along with psychological warping can, do, and will drive people to the brink of insanity and beyond. This has been proven time and again with numerous serial murderers, sociopaths, and others.

How one is raised affects everything afterwards. And the human mind is pliable for only so long before it is nearly unchangeable.

In fact, I just finished reading the horrifying biography of Mary Bell. And indeed, one can most certainly blame her upbringing and lack of guidance and support for what inevitably became the result of the actions of a child of such upbringings.

[TteFAboB]

I'll help Skybird put paragraphs on his post. :D EDIT: Damn he beat me to it. :88)

And no, a 14 year old is not to be expected to be fully aware of all her actions, and conseqeucnes. Even the law of western nations recognizes that, and differs below and above age of criminal responsebility, which usually is an age of 18, I think.

That's why she was arrested and not prosecuted. If she's prosecuted then you have a big case and I'll take your side too.

But also the other way around: what is going wrong in our socieities that children so often become victims of adults, and even their parents?

Yes it goes both ways, the children of today are the parents of tomorrow. Look at the bright side: if this girl ever has children, I bet she won't allow them to repeat this behavior. :D

we tend to deal children as potential criminals, plan to collect genetical material of them, and plan for even more governmental control over lifes, biograhies, private lifes, from even younger years on.

The will to kidnap children from their parents and family to put them under the guard of the state goes back many decades. Seems that only now the ground is opening for such kind of policy.

Towards a society where total control is tolerated in the name of total security?

That's how it works. We must always surrender something in return for a promised benefit that in the end will turn out to be no benefit at all and by then it will be too late to call fraud.

Why is total secrutiy needed so much, since in earlier times, such things seem to have happened less often?

You're looking at it from a rational perspective. :lol: Yes nobody needs video-cameras, microphones and video-walls inside classrooms nor radio leashes attached to the neck of the students and biometric profiling.

What kind of mentality will be formed, if a society accepts such measures more and more?

Submissive. Vassal of the vassal.

What independence of a mind and individual can be expected to develope over the years, if the state becomes so powerful, and an indiovidual doesnT know it any different?

None. We need to break the monopoly. Parents, organize your own elite micro-schools for 5 or 10 pupils and use home-schooling laws to your advantage.

Isn't there something most important, something very vital and essential missing? Less and lesser western families even raise children. fertility problems cannot explain this. It is our living style, our social environemnt, our jobs. Our society has become a hostile environment for children. children can no longer take it for granted that their parents are really fulfilling this function.

Now would be a good time for the Danish members to open their mouth. I remember a Danish woman I met in Copenhagen many years ago who bragged about the lack of pesky children running around and making noise at the streets of the city. Lame excuse, we have nanny shows on the TV, we have the internet, this kind of solution, removing or hiding children to get rid of the noise, is ridiculous, I wonder if that woman, when she wants to check her make-up, attempts to plug her eyes out of their sockets to hold them in her hands and look back at her face with them. I prefer to see children on the streets. It feels alot more natural to have smaller beings walking or happily running around than empty streets. Life is beautiful, there's no replacement for children's laughter. And if there's no children, who's going to be taxed to death to pay for your public services? Oh don't worry, we can always raise taxes to 95%.

more and more governmental interference takes place, and is even demkanded.

So original. :zzz:

People fall for it, for the state promises all-inclusive-care-taking, at the cost of higher and higher state deficits. It ruins the nations, but ensures loyalty of voters - idle voters who mislearn the ability not to depend on governmental care-taking.

And mislearn never to trust their government & politicians! Enlightened despots don't last very long and have a terribly predictable tendency to leave only Darkness to the future generations. This is how republics are destroyed, in laughter and applause.

They become more and more dependant. And that means: controllable.I often complained that I see western democracies failing and being turned into oligarchies (Europe) and plutocracies (US, and later europe as well).

We can't handle the plutocracies well. Nobody has predicted the rise of 'meta-capitalists' who are done with capitalism, free market and risk management now that they are swimming in millions and want to use the state to protect them from risk and stop others from playing capitalist too adding that annoying thing called competition.

but since some time I also see a differen trend, and in a worrying manner they seem to work hand in hand: a tremnd towards totalitarian control of society by what the state is tranfoemd into, and that is not the typ or idea of nation/state that we have grown up with. And although the final outcome is not clear, by pure instinct I feel alarmed by this developement, for my instinct tells me that it is a very severe threat that is developing.

Indeed. Something's cooking.

This is the context that made me aware of that story with that girl "planning" to kill Bush. It is no america-bashing, but I perceive it as a symptom only for something very different.I don't like the way our societies are heading. Every quantum of my instincts tell me only one message: "Danger".

Didn't I mentioned something about mislearning not to trust the government up there?

The pessimist does not offer bright rainbows, does not paint beautiful pictures and has no compelling dreams to share, however, he does not murder nor kills by the millions.

[fredbass]

It's very serious when someone threatens the president. At 14, even though a minor, she is old enough to have known better and is quite capable at that age to do harm to anyone, which, by the way, does happen from time to time from kids that seem as innocent as her.

Until she was questioned and the situation investigated, many people wouldn't have known how serious or not so serious it was.

So, as standard procedure, it was resolved with no harm done.

End of story. :know:

[ASWnut101]

but of course that won't go over with some people and they will continue to say 'tourture' 'interrogate' and 'imprisoned'

-I say that the SS (seceret service, not the Nazis) did a very very good job! keep it up.

[Yahoshua]

And it's been shown that pessimists have a more accurate view of world events too! :D

(just a min. while I try to find the study)

Sry, couldn't find it but I remember a study claiming that pessimists had more accurate perceptions of events as opposed to optimists (fancy that eh?).

[ASWnut101]

very fancy! (wonder who came up with that?)

[Iceman]

You stumble in the dark Skybird and refuse to see the light...and your not alone.

Men Loved Darkness Rather Than Light, Because Their Deeds Were Evil


Job 24:12 Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.
13 They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof.
14 The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief.
15 The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.
16 In the dark they dig through houses, which they had marked for themselves in the daytime: they know not the light.
17 For the morning is to them even as the shadow of death: if one know them, they are in the terrors of the shadow of death.
Psalms 74:19 O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.
20 Have respect unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty.

Proverbs 7:4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:
5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.
6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,
7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.
11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)
13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,
14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.
15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.
16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.
18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.
19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.
21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.

Isaiah 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Ezekiel 8:7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Consider a moment a creature....let's call him Satan...who had lived with God for.. um I don't know Eons....whatever an Eon is....and I'm not going to speculate on the why's he did what he did but instead I will look at what I know...or I choose to believe...

A creature which took on and became literal Evil...the opposite of light...the direct opposite of Life...whose soul purpose would be to kill steal and destroy all things.

Take that creature...and a host that choose to follow him and put them in the mix with humans now....for thousands of years this creature has worked to destroy mankind and extinguish the "Light" but....he has'nt been able to...why?

Well I think you know my belief why...the path to heaven was re-opened by Jesus Christ and it is written what He openeth no man shutteth...yet it is also written that in the end times it will be like the days of Noah...men will be eating and drinking and giving in marriage and the Lord will come in an hour when you think Him not...here's the rub once the master has risen up and shut that door it is over.

A city divided against itself cannot stand and Satan knows this as well hence has been his plot since our beggining...a world ruled by him under one flag.He will have to achieve it by force and threat of death.The stage is set.You cannot see the air yet you know it is there.Thomas had the same hurdel to overcome as you unless it is seen with the eyes you will not believe but what you and others state day in and day out here is the same thing...."WHY? WHY? WHY?....why do these things happen....how could it happen....I know I feel in my bones something is wrong but I don't know what it is"....that is your soul begging to be re-born and saved by Jesus...that sound you hear is Jesus knocking at the door to your heart...the way back to grace has already been paid in full...get on your knees ask him in faith to forgive you your trespasses and invite Him into your heart to save you from this hell on Earth....he will come in and will never leave you Skybird...your eyes will open and you will see things in a new light...you will see the light....a midst all this evil an hopelessness there is still hope.

Matthew 11
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
[26] Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

You must enter in by the door Skybird.
Jesus is the door.

[Yahoshua]

Careful there Iceman, you may receive a strongly worded post from Skybird with Nietzsche quotes interspersed in the text, or worse you may hijack the thread!!

[Iceman]

Careful there Iceman, you may receive a strongly worded post from Skybird with Nietzsche quotes interspersed in the text, or worse you may hijack the thread!!

Um I think it is relevant to the thread...a why why why did the girl do this? with the respective response of the government....just my take on why why why :)

[ASWnut101]

good enough for me.

[waste gate]

Careful there Iceman, you may receive a strongly worded post from Skybird with Nietzsche quotes interspersed in the text, or worse you may hijack the thread!!

Or worse Gizzmoe will show up, who, if he doesn't agree with your opinion or the slant in which the thread is going, will close the thread. So much for tolerance or freedom of speech when the big 'G' shows up.

[ASWnut101]

hmm, lets have a poll

Aye if you are for keeping thread going
nay if you are not for keeping thread going

[Gizzmoe]

Or worse Gizzmoe will show up, who, if he doesn't agree with your opinion or the slant in which the thread is going, will close the thread. So much for tolerance or freedom of speech when the big 'G' shows up.

Nonsense. By the way, if you want to critizise me or any other moderator do that via PM, never in public.

[waste gate]

[Edit: Which part of "never in public" didn´t you understand? - Gizzmoe]

[Yahoshua]

Just as clarification Iceman, it was a joke.:yep:

Thought you would've gotten it but I guess I wasn't clear enough.

*EDIT*

Seems another shooting has ocurred:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061015/ap_on_re_us/shooting_deaths

[waste gate]

[Edit: Enough is enough... - Gizzmoe]

[The Avon Lady]

Guys - we are talking about a 14 year old girl with braces and freckles
Those are the worst kind! :ping: :ping: :ping:

I had 2 of them. And now that they're past the braces, things are even worse. :yep:

MAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP! :damn: :damn: :damn:

:p

[Yahoshua]

Are they still single? (just kidding....that's all).

[Coda]

What has gone wrong in our societies that we are so much afraid of our CHILDREN. Nothing new.




Questions for you. Who said the following? When was it said?

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when eleders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

hint: He wasn't an American.

[Yahoshua]

George Orwell in his book 1984.

(This is a guess on the fly so I'll see if I'm right).

[micky1up]

http://www.welt.de/data/2006/10/14/1071835.html

This refers to an article from Friday in the Sacramento Bee, for which i do not have subscribed. A 14-year old girl had participated in a photographic collage of school children, showing Bush with a knife in his hand, and wriotten below was "Kill Bush". short after the site went online, agents of national security appeared in biology lessons and arrestzed her and led her away. During interrogation she did not allow to get intimidated (:up:) and insisted on not having planned to assassinate Bush, but wanting to protest against his policy, and that she completely dislike him. she said that she herself were a peace-loving person. the father of her said that while he does not accept a behavior like it was shown by his daughter when writing that subtitle, he also does not accept the behavior of the police and agents, brandmarking their action as exaggerated.

Hm, what was it with news-essages about routinely fingerprinting schoolchildren in Western countries, routinely taking genetic samples of them, and the widening of use of ID chips attached to clothing?


a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

[Coda]

George Orwell in his book 1984.

(This is a guess on the fly so I'll see if I'm right).

Wrong.



Here's an english version of the story:

"SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Upset by the war in Iraq (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=Iraq), Julia Wilson vented her frustrations with President Bush (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=President+Bush) last spring on her Web page on MySpace.com. She posted a picture of the president, scrawled "Kill Bush" across the top and drew a dagger stabbing his outstretched hand. She later replaced her page on the social-networking site after learning in her eighth-grade history class that such threats are a federal offense."


Full story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061014/ap_on_hi_te/myspace_bush_threat

[Sea Demon]

Questions for you. Who said the following? When was it said?

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when eleders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

hint: He wasn't an American.

Socrates :hmm:

[goldorak]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.

[VON_CAPO]

I am wondering.
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

It is true that the S.S. is more civilizated, but some similarities are always present. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[The Avon Lady]

I am wondering.
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo? :hmm::hmm::hmm:
Because you're an irrational anti-American crackerjack.

That was easy! :know:

[VON_CAPO]

I am wondering.
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo? :hmm::hmm::hmm: Because you're an irrational anti-American crackerjack.

That was easy! :know:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Typical answer, zero analysis and 100% derogative. :yep::yep::yep:

[The Avon Lady]

I am wondering.
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo? :hmm::hmm::hmm: Because you're an irrational anti-American crackerjack.

That was easy! :know:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Typical answer, zero analysis and 100% derogative. :yep::yep::yep:
Yes I can see you gave it your all when it comes to analyzing the equivalence of the Secret Service to the KGB and the Gestapo.

You've really impressed your credibility upon us with that.

Gotta hand it to you! :up:

[fredbass]

I am wondering.
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

It is true that the S.S. is more civilizated, but some similarities are always present. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

So, what similarities woud that be?

Please give me something intelligent to answer.

[VON_CAPO]

Yes I can see you gave it your all when it comes to analyzing the equivalence of the Secret Service to the KGB and the Gestapo.

You've really impressed your credibility upon us with that.

Gotta hand it to you! :up:
Equivalence ≠ Similarities :know:

Credibility ≠ Wondering

It is odd to notice how your psyche works and how it interpret the incoming data. :hmm:

It would be smart if you take aside the very polarized cristal that you are using to understand the reality.

You narrow wiew only see political opponents.

The consecuences of this is that your are a permanent antagonist to everyone with different ideas.

Have you ever think about that the simple slogans such as:
"You are with us, or against us."
"You are anti Israel."
"You are anti american."
... are only that, slogans, and mostly false.

Lady (or guy dressed as a lady), I think is time to dismount from your horse.

Arrogance and hostility are not good partners.

[The Avon Lady]

Yes I can see you gave it your all when it comes to analyzing the equivalence of the Secret Service to the KGB and the Gestapo.

You've really impressed your credibility upon us with that.

Gotta hand it to you! :up:
Equivalence ≠ Similarities :know:

Credibility ≠ Wondering
This is what you wrote:
Why when I think in the Secret Service my mind brings me recalls of KGB and Gestapo?
Eat your own words.
(or guy dressed as a lady)
Please don't tell my husband and kids. :roll:

[fredbass]

Please don't tell my husband and kids. :roll:

I'd say he just got owned. :yep:

[ASWnut101]

:yep: :yep:

[The Avon Lady]

Please don't tell my husband and kids. :roll:
I'd say he just got owned. :yep:
Who?

Van Capo or my husband? :p

[ASWnut101]

capo got owned by husband:p (i don't know actually)

[fredbass]

capo got owned by husband:p (i don't know actually)

no, no. I'm saying The Avon Lady owns Capo. :)

[ASWnut101]

ahhh:hmm: :know: :up:

[VON_CAPO]

capo got owned by husband:p (i don't know actually)
no, no. I'm saying The Avon Lady owns Capo. :)
Oh Lord, do not permit such abomination. :p

[Skybird]

To the contrary, I do believe that traumatic events along with psychological warping can, do, and will drive people to the brink of insanity and beyond. This has been proven time and again with numerous serial murderers, sociopaths, and others.

How one is raised affects everything afterwards. And the human mind is pliable for only so long before it is nearly unchangeable.


Okay, I never disagreed with that. However - this is only the mechanism thatcreates symptoms, it is not answering WHY these mechanisms come to life. How could it be that we have created and accept a society where more and more families obviously are increasingly vulnerable to detoriating of parental functions/responsebilities and family structures? WHY is there a lack of examples and idols, values and morals, social support for weak families? ;)

[fredbass]

How could it be that we have created and accept a society where more and more families obviously are increasingly vulnerable to detoriating of parental functions/responsebilities and family structures? WHY is there a lack of examples and idols, values and morals, social support for weak families? ;)

In the U.S., there is a lot of social support for weak and poor families, but many are ashamed and don't look for help. I also think there are plenty of examples of people who could be idolized. There's still a lot of good people out there. But there are some issues. It has become quite typical for families to grow while both parents are working, whether it's really necessary or not. Mom should be home to raise the kids, if possible, and not someone from daycare.

[sonar732]

Wow...I can't believe that I missed this one! All that I have to say is that the Secret Service did their job in investigating a pictoral threat to The President of the United States of America. They get tons of mail threats and investigate every one...why is the internet posting any different?

As for the treatment of a 14 year old not being held accountable...let's have a reality check here. If a 14 year old commits a crime, they are punished. If the same 14 year old handed out a flyer at school with their principal in the picture instead of GW, they'd be suspended from school and if the principal wanted too, charges would be pressed.

If anything, I'd imagine that she'd be charged with conspiracy.

partial definition...

Conspiracy also resembles attempt (http://www.answers.com/topic/attempt). However, attempt, like solicitation, can be committed by a single person. On another level, conspiracy requires less than attempt. A conspiracy may exist before a crime is actually attempted, whereas no attempt charge will succeed unless the requisite attempt is made.

Another thing...it had been a long time since we had Iceman quote scripture, Sky write a huge manifest, and moderators editing content...truely an interesting topic!

[Coda]

Questions for you. Who said the following? When was it said?

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when eleders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

hint: He wasn't an American.
Socrates :hmm:

Correct. I think it was quite a while ago.

[ASWnut101]

Correct. I think it was quite a while ago.

heh, understatement.

[Iceman]

Another thing...it had been a long time since we had Iceman quote scripture, Sky write a huge manifest, and moderators editing content...truely an interesting topic!

Lol...why why why?
http://moblog.co.uk/blogs/992/moblog_8f2bbaf80a756.jpg

[Coda]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.
Why would they go to jail? Owning firearms in the US is legal. I own "more than one" and I know plenty of other people who do.

Where did you get the 220.000.000 from? Did you pull it out of the same plae you got your other ideas about the US?

[Tchocky]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.
Why would they go to jail? Owning firearms in the US is legal. I own "more than one" and I know plenty of other people who do.

Where did you get the 220.000.000 from? Did you pull it out of the same plae you got your other ideas about the US?

Stop taking things so literally and the world will become a better place

[madDdog67]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.

you mean like THESE:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/188491/family1.jpg

MUAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH. :rock:

[Skybird]

How could it be that we have created and accept a society where more and more families obviously are increasingly vulnerable to detoriating of parental functions/responsebilities and family structures? WHY is there a lack of examples and idols, values and morals, social support for weak families? ;)

In the U.S., there is a lot of social support for weak and poor families, but many are ashamed and don't look for help. I also think there are plenty of examples of people who could be idolized. There's still a lot of good people out there. But there are some issues. It has become quite typical for families to grow while both parents are working, whether it's really necessary or not. Mom should be home to raise the kids, if possible, and not someone from daycare.
Street gangs, an increase in the socalled "working poor" and drug abuse by young people are just three things that should not be there, or at least not so literally high then... :hmm:

[August]

This thread is 5 pages of making mountains out of mole hills started by a person who never misses a chance to villify the US.

A couple representatives from the Secret Service interviewed the girl for a whole 15 minutes and then let her go back to class, but Skybird would have you imagining it was a Gestapo style raid with machineguns, tanks and the blood of innocent villagers running freely in the streets.

:roll:

[ASWnut101]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.

you mean like THESE:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/188491/family1.jpg

MUAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH. :rock:

gots to gets me somes of thoses!!! for some squirrle control!:arrgh!:

[Coda]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.
you mean like THESE:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/188491/family1.jpg

MUAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH. :rock:

No pistols?

Where's the bayonets?

If anyone ever decided to invade America, they'd have to come up with a better word than "insurgency".

Forget the Army, it's the civillians they'd really need to worry about.

[VipertheSniper]

If anyone ever decided to invade America, they'd have to come up with a better word than "insurgency".

Forget the Army, it's the civillians they'd really need to worry about.

Hmm...If you replace America with Iraq, I think someone should've told that Bush before going into Iraq.

[madDdog67]

Coda...don't have too many pix of my pistols. Also, don't have anywhere near as many pistols as rifles.

I've got a few bayos for some of the milsurps, but nothing too exotic. I'm into the modern stuff a little more, although I do have the obligatory M1 and M1 Carbine, 1911, etc.

What I need to pick up is an '03..still don't have one of those. Come to think of it, that might make a nice Xmas present to myself. :D

[Coda]

Should start a "Post Your Arsenal" thread. I need to find the pic I got of my new DE and a watermelon. :)

I bet American civilians have more weapons than some armies.

[SUBMAN1]

a peace loving person that like to draw knives in peoples hands is this the same type of peaceful person that owns a 357 magnum or an assault rifle

Is that so ? :roll:
So i guess that over 50% of the american population should go to jail seeing as they possess firearms, automatic weapons etc...
220.000.000 firearms are freely circulating in the USA.

Yep - Lots of guns. How do we get the rest of the world armed so that we become a more polite society? These are the first generations in history to have their boys grow up unarmed without rifle/pistol, and without sword.

Anyway, I put 750 rds through mine this afternoon. All I smell right now is gunpowder. Did I mention my shoulder hurts? :)

-S

[SUBMAN1]

One more thing since we are on the gun subject - Can I hire someone to clean these things for me? I really hate cleaning them up after a day like today!!! If you're interested, I pay $10 an hour! :p

-S

[VON_CAPO]

I pay $10 an hour! :p

-S Exploiter cheapskate. :lol::lol::lol:

[fredbass]

This thread is 5 pages of making mountains out of mole hills started by a person who never misses a chance to villify the US.

A couple representatives from the Secret Service interviewed the girl for a whole 15 minutes and then let her go back to class, but Skybird would have you imagining it was a Gestapo style raid with machineguns, tanks and the blood of innocent villagers running freely in the streets.

:roll:

You got that right. :ping: She seems like a spoiled brat anyway.

Besides, I tend to think that from time to time a little story like this keeps the public informed on what they should or shouldn't do or say.

[VON_CAPO]

[quote=August]
Besides, I tend to think that from time to time a little story like this keeps the public informed on what they should or shouldn't do or say.
I agree. :yep::yep::yep:

[madDdog67]

One more thing since we are on the gun subject - Can I hire someone to clean these things for me? I really hate cleaning them up after a day like today!!! If you're interested, I pay $10 an hour! :p

-S


let me know if you do...you can send 'em my way when you get done. $10 and hour, and all the Hoppes #9 they can inhale. :D

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.

[August]

Besides, I tend to think that from time to time a little story like this keeps the public informed on what they should or shouldn't do or say. I agree. :yep::yep::yep:

Fixed.

I do believe it's representative of a wider problem however. Both parties are guilty of over the top rhetoric.

It's a point that was made during the abortion debates; If you call your political opponents "baby murderers" over and over, is it any wonder when someone believes the rhetoric enough to try to blow up an abortion clinic or murder a doctor in order to stop it?

Same thing with things like "bush=hitler". After 8 years of this it is small wonder we have impressionable young people advocating the murder of the President.

After all, who of us, if we could somehow go back in time and had the means to, would not try to kill Adolf Hitler before he murdered 6 million people and set the world on fire?

I often wonder how long it will be before some foolish youngster actually tries to murder Bush?

[SUBMAN1]

One more thing since we are on the gun subject - Can I hire someone to clean these things for me? I really hate cleaning them up after a day like today!!! If you're interested, I pay $10 an hour! :p

-S


let me know if you do...you can send 'em my way when you get done. $10 and hour, and all the Hoppes #9 they can inhale. :D

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.

A friend of mine has an ultrasonic cleaner and he just field strips his guns and pops them in and comes back later. I think I need one of these things.

-S

[tycho102]

Here's another one for 'ya.
Anyone need a Mac-10? (http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.970828.0.girl_14_accused_of_supplying_ machine_guns.php)

In other news:

One solution put forward by Superintendent Logan is the US initiative of "street pastors".
Under the American scheme volunteers from local churches, wearing overtly religious clothing, patrol crime hotspots.
The report claims that black males aged between 13 and 19 are less likely to commit crime if they know a pastor is around.

[VON_CAPO]

Here's another one for 'ya.
Anyone need a Mac-10? (http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/display.var.970828.0.girl_14_accused_of_supplying_ machine_guns.php)

In other news:

One solution put forward by Superintendent Logan is the US initiative of "street pastors".
Under the American scheme volunteers from local churches, wearing overtly religious clothing, patrol crime hotspots.
The report claims that black males aged between 13 and 19 are less likely to commit crime if they know a pastor is around. Interesting, but I think that you should initialize another thread. ;)

Now, it looks like the thread has been hijacked by NRA members.

[Coda]

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.

Dirtbag. I can't believe anyone would treat a weapon like this. you should be flogged. :)

You must have never been in the military. I couldn't sleep until all my weapons are cleaned, oiled and properly stored. I do PM once a month on all of them, fired or not. Just one of those old habits I can't break.

Another habit I got from the Army is sleeping in daylight. In the military if you are laying in a bed and there is daylight shining in the window, your arse is in trouble. You know you should already be somewhere doing something. That stuck with me.

[Yahoshua]

Okay, I never disagreed with that. However - this is only the mechanism thatcreates symptoms, it is not answering WHY these mechanisms come to life. How could it be that we have created and accept a society where more and more families obviously are increasingly vulnerable to detoriating of parental functions/responsebilities and family structures? WHY is there a lack of examples and idols, values and morals, social support for weak families?

The answer I believe, would lie with the individuals themselves. These individuals take what they learn to heart, for good or ill.

I was at a friends house this last weekend and I watched as his 3 yr old daughter would look around to see if anyone is watching her while she takes sweets off a tray on the table.

What motivates her other than a greed for food? Nobody taught her to be greedy, it was a motivation she created herself.



And as for Maddog, do you know your ABCs?

Armalite
Bushmaster
Colt
DPMS.....

I see you have some DPMS in there and are those rock river ARs'? (probably should move that subject to a diff. thread though).

[SUBMAN1]

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.
Dirtbag. I can't believe anyone would treat a weapon like this. you should be flogged. :)

You must have never been in the military. I couldn't sleep until all my weapons are cleaned, oiled and properly stored. I do PM once a month on all of them, fired or not. Just one of those old habits I can't break.

Another habit I got from the Army is sleeping in daylight. In the military if you are laying in a bed and there is daylight shining in the window, your arse is in trouble. You know you should already be somewhere doing something. That stuck with me.

So am I in trouble then for drinking beer and going to bed last night instead of cleaning my rifles? :p I figure they are military rifles anyway and they can both take another couple thousand rounds before starting to have issues from grime build up anyway. Besides, the AR has that button for forcing a round into the chamber under these circumstances anyway, right?? :)

-S

[August]

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.
Dirtbag. I can't believe anyone would treat a weapon like this. you should be flogged. :)

You must have never been in the military. I couldn't sleep until all my weapons are cleaned, oiled and properly stored. I do PM once a month on all of them, fired or not. Just one of those old habits I can't break.

Another habit I got from the Army is sleeping in daylight. In the military if you are laying in a bed and there is daylight shining in the window, your arse is in trouble. You know you should already be somewhere doing something. That stuck with me.
So am I in trouble then for drinking beer and going to bed last night instead of cleaning my rifles? :p I figure they are military rifles anyway and they can both take another couple thousand rounds before starting to have issues from grime build up anyway. Besides, the AR has that button for forcing a round into the chamber under these circumstances anyway, right?? :)

-S

Three words: "Corrosive powder ammo".

[SUBMAN1]

I hate to admit this, but I've got more than a couple of rifles I haven't cleaned since the last outing. Usually happens if I take more than 2 of 'em to the range. Nothing worse than having 5 or 6 that need cleaning at once. At that point, I admit defeat and head to the Barcalounger.
Dirtbag. I can't believe anyone would treat a weapon like this. you should be flogged. :)

You must have never been in the military. I couldn't sleep until all my weapons are cleaned, oiled and properly stored. I do PM once a month on all of them, fired or not. Just one of those old habits I can't break.

Another habit I got from the Army is sleeping in daylight. In the military if you are laying in a bed and there is daylight shining in the window, your arse is in trouble. You know you should already be somewhere doing something. That stuck with me.
So am I in trouble then for drinking beer and going to bed last night instead of cleaning my rifles? :p I figure they are military rifles anyway and they can both take another couple thousand rounds before starting to have issues from grime build up anyway. Besides, the AR has that button for forcing a round into the chamber under these circumstances anyway, right?? :)

-S
Three words: "Corrosive powder ammo".

Yeah yeah. In the 20 to 50 years it will take to harm the rifle, I will have sold it and bought 20 more! :)

[August]

Three words: "Corrosive powder ammo".
Yeah yeah. In the 20 to 50 years it will take to harm the rifle, I will have sold it and bought 20 more! :)

It doesn't take that long Subman. You'll get barrel pitting within a few days.

[ASWnut101]

build one out of cement!:arrgh!:

[SUBMAN1]

Three words: "Corrosive powder ammo".
Yeah yeah. In the 20 to 50 years it will take to harm the rifle, I will have sold it and bought 20 more! :)
It doesn't take that long Subman. You'll get barrel pitting within a few days.

I never let it go longer than 24 hours, so no big deal (I don't like unclean guns that won't do their job in my house!). I usually do it the same day, but last night was getting late when I got in. Got ropped into going to the furniture store on the way home. Walked out of their with $2K less in my pocket than when I went in.

-S

[ASWnut101]

I sure hope it was a bookcase turned gun-shed bought at the flea market! Thats a lot of money.

[SUBMAN1]

I sure hope it was a bookcase turned gun-shed bought at the flea market! Thats a lot of money.

Try a mattress. Had a deal on those Tempurpedic things since you got the boxspring and pillows for free (Worth about $700 alone). SHould be delivered by the end of the month.

Yeah - boring - I know.

[ASWnut101]

how would the "sweedish sleep system devloped by NASA" (an american assosiation) be of any help? unless you have springs going through the top of the thing, no need spending big $$$ on air pillows.

[SUBMAN1]

how would the "sweedish sleep system devloped by NASA" (an american assosiation) be of any help? unless you have springs going through the top of the thing, no need spending big $$$ on air pillows.

Sit on one and then you will know. I have yet to try and sleep on one though.

-S

[Yahoshua]

Ammunition made before 1990 I wouldn't leave in any of my guns for more than 10 mins after firing.

Most powders made after 1990 are fairly decent and you can let it slide for a day but no more than that.

The acids in the powder will eat away at the bore (barrel pitting).

So it's usually my reccomendation to clean your toys after you're done with them ( I know, I hate doing that too).

[SUBMAN1]

Ammunition made before 1990 I wouldn't leave in any of my guns for more than 10 mins after firing.

Most powders made after 1990 are fairly decent and you can let it slide for a day but no more than that.

The acids in the powder will eat away at the bore (barrel pitting).

So it's usually my reccomendation to clean your toys after you're done with them ( I know, I hate doing that too).

I hear ya, but when Stoner made the AR-15, he originally designed it so that it would never need cleaning - hence the chrome lined barrel, etc. I'm not too worried about this rifle going a day or two without being brushed down, even though I've never let it go for more than 24 hr's.

My Kimber however I do worry about and clean religiously.

-S

PS. When they first sent the M-16 over to Vietnam, they didn't even include a cleaning kit with it since it wasn't supposed to need it. Of course, they also shippend the wrong ammo type, which sorta makes the cleaning kit neccesary at that point since it was a very fouling type of ammo that was never intended for the rifle.

[Yahoshua]

Not to mention jungle rust.

[August]

Not to mention jungle rust.

Rust wasn't the issue. Powder residue clogging up the gas tube was.

[ASWnut101]

man, the suddeness that a thread's topic can change!:o :)

[SUBMAN1]

man, the suddeness that a thread's topic can change!:o :)

It does, doesn't it? Issue is dead, but some side issues are still open. All guns are clean to a decent standard. All I smell is not gunpowder anymore, but BreakFree. All I can smell now is Breakfree. I finish up with a coat of Miltec 1, but at least that doesn't smell.

-S

[Biggles]

USA goverment in a nutshell......:shifty:

[The Avon Lady]

USA goverment in a nutshell......:shifty:
Baseless liberal European opinion in a nutshell.......

[fredbass]

USA goverment in a nutshell......:shifty:
Baseless liberal European opinion in a nutshell.......

It seems that Europeans are going to have to learn the hard way. While our economy continues to be fine and grows in leaps and bounds, theirs continues to fall apart.

Maybe they should rethink their outlook towards us b4 it's too late.

[SUBMAN1]

USA goverment in a nutshell......:shifty:
Baseless liberal European opinion in a nutshell.......

That about sums it up! Good call Avon Lady.

-S

[The Noob]

The last few posts after Biggles one show me that all hope for Americans to return to sanity is lost.

[The Avon Lady]

The last few posts after Biggles one show me that all hope for Americans to return to sanity is lost.
Why am I not surprised?

Enjoy your EU. :lol:

[The Noob]

Enjoy your EU. :lol:

No. I'll enjoy my sweden or my austria, but not my EU. ;)

[fredbass]

Enjoy your EU. :lol:

:lol: When we start turning our backs on them and stop helping everybody, maybe they'll realize how important we really are.

[Biggles]

Seems that I started quite a racket here.....

No offense lads, I love U.S, been there......10 times I think, it's just that in Sweden, at least in my parts, we have our.....jokes about U.S.A,Bush,etc. This little event with the girl is for many quite ridicolous up here......

Oh, by the way, I think that it seemed like you supported me "the noob", so cheers!:up:

Seriously though, I think this event was quite stupid. Not America, but this little incident.

[ASWnut101]

tats all right! We have jokes about sweeden here too....

[Biggles]

tats all right! We have jokes about sweeden here too....

Oh REALLY!:hulk:

Seriously, what jokes do you have, I wanna know:rotfl:

[ASWnut101]

*looks in joke book*

hmm, let me see.......

AH!:
"here in america we have jokes about sweeden here too...."

:up: *hides under rock*

[Biggles]

*looks in joke book*

hmm, let me see.......

AH!:
"here in america we have jokes about sweeden here too...."

:up: *hides under rock*


.................thats it? Well mate, I actually HOPED you'd tell me the one about polar-bears.....:doh:

obviously, that is a swedish joke about americans jokes about swedes. (ye still follow me?)

[ASWnut101]

Ok, you lost me at the "Sweedish Joke......"

[The Avon Lady]

Did you hear about the Swede who went ice fishing and returned home with 10 kilos of ice?

[Biggles]

Ok, you lost me at the "Sweedish Joke......"

Ah well.......:/\\x:

That's how we deal with norweigans telling us the're smarter than us! (jokejokejoke, no offense people from Norway)

[Coda]

Did you hear about the Swede who went ice fishing and returned home with 10 kilos of ice?

No, I've never heard that one. Please tell it to us.

[Biggles]

Did you hear about the Swede who went ice fishing and returned home with 10 kilos of ice?

LOL, gotta hand it to ya, that was quite good......

Question: How many of you have gone under the theory that Polar bears lives in Sweden?

[ASWnut101]

dont reindeer live there though?

[Coda]

Question: How many of you have gone under the theory that Polar bears lives in Sweden?

I just read everything about Sweden here. Very informative. They must have polar bears there, because it's one of the national dishes.

"The two Swedish traditional dishes are meatballs (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Meatballs), made from polar bears, and a kind of raw, rotten fish (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Fish) called surströmming (http://uncyclopedia.org/index.php?title=Surstr%C3%B6mming&action=edit). The tradition (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Tradition) is said to have started when shipments of Sushi (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Sushi) from Japan (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Japan) went bad on their way to Switzerland (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Switzerland), but the polite and simple-minded Swedes forced themselves to eat it, and by courtesy they have been doing so ever since."

Found here: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Sweden



It must be true, I read it on the Internet.

[The Noob]

Oh, by the way, I think that it seemed like you supported me "the noob", so cheers!:up:

No problem, i like the governement of sweden and think it is a nice country anyway. I love the tolerant "Northern Countrys" as we in austria call it, but sweden is my faforite.

:up:

[The Noob]

@Coda

That trick works in the other direction too...:lol:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Germania

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Republic

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Armenia

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/United_Spades_of_Amerika

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/The_United_States_of_Whatever

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/George_W_Bush

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Unamerica

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Republican



My faforites:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/USA

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Americanism

We strike back major. :|\\ :rotfl:

[Bum]

Where is Sweden? It's a really small country covered in snow most of the time, right? Their main claim to fame is they make Volvos... sounds like a part of a woman's reproductive system.

After travelling through Sweden last summer, I noticed that they had something written on the bottom of their soft drink bottles, "Åpnas på andra sidan" (Opens on the other end).

We don't care, we have Minnesota.

The Russians have found a new easy way to sink Swedish subs. The method is very simple, they just send a diver down to knock on the sub's hatch. Upon which the Swedes reply, "Kom inn" (Come in). After the diver has waited awhile he knocks again, and then the Swedes will open the hatch to see who it is.


A swede made a trip to New York and while standing in front of the Empire State building, he started to count all the floors. A policeman came by and thought to himself: "That one must be swedish" and decided to take advantage of him. He went up to him and said: "Do you know that it's illegal to count the floors on buildings in the United States?" The swede replied: "No sir, I did not." The police officer then said: "I'm afraid I'll have to charge you $10.00 per floor you counted." The swede then said: "Oh, I counted 50 floors sir." The police officer left, very happy. Then, a swedish comrad came along and asked what had just happened. His friend replied: "My, how these Americans are stupid! I told him that I had counted 50 floors when I had really counted 51!"

[The Avon Lady]

Their main claim to fame is they make Volvos...
A company owned by Ford Motor Corp., USA. :smug:
sounds like a part of a woman's reproductive system.
Whose divine design seems to have been based on the Trabant.

Or is it vice versa? :hmm:

[The Noob]

Their main claim to fame is they make Volvos... A company owned by Ford Motor Corp., USA. :smug:
Is there one thing that is not already owned by USA one way or another on this planet? :roll:

[The Avon Lady]

Their main claim to fame is they make Volvos... A company owned by Ford Motor Corp., USA. :smug:

Is there one thing that is not already owned by USA on this planet? :roll:
Europe. China. Russia. Saudi Arabia.

And the list goes on...........................................

[Biggles]

Where is Sweden? It's a really small country covered in snow most of the time, right? Their main claim to fame is they make Volvos... sounds like a part of a woman's reproductive system.

After travelling through Sweden last summer, I noticed that they had something written on the bottom of their soft drink bottles, "Åpnas på andra sidan" (Opens on the other end).

We don't care, we have Minnesota.

The Russians have found a new easy way to sink Swedish subs. The method is very simple, they just send a diver down to knock on the sub's hatch. Upon which the Swedes reply, "Kom inn" (Come in). After the diver has waited awhile he knocks again, and then the Swedes will open the hatch to see who it is.


A swede made a trip to New York and while standing in front of the Empire State building, he started to count all the floors. A policeman came by and thought to himself: "That one must be swedish" and decided to take advantage of him. He went up to him and said: "Do you know that it's illegal to count the floors on buildings in the United States?" The swede replied: "No sir, I did not." The police officer then said: "I'm afraid I'll have to charge you $10.00 per floor you counted." The swede then said: "Oh, I counted 50 floors sir." The police officer left, very happy. Then, a swedish comrad came along and asked what had just happened. His friend replied: "My, how these Americans are stupid! I told him that I had counted 50 floors when I had really counted 51!"

1. The sub thing is probably more likely to happen a Norwiegan sub.

2. It's "Kom IN", not "Kom inn"

And 3. A swedish comrade to another would in that case say: Jisses, vad dumma amerikanerna är! Jag sa till honom att jag hade räknat 50 våningar, när jag faktiskt hade räknat 51!

There you have some swedish.....:ping: