Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges

[Narcosis]

HSBC Bank has established a special unit, Amanah Bank, to offer Muslim banking services, which are organised so that they do not levy interest charges, which are condemned in the Koran as usury.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9063-2381575,00.html




Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?

[Yahoshua]

Too late....

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/HitlerAndTheMufti.mp4

[Skybird]

Actually, this is one of the extremely rare occasions were I tend to agree with Islam, at least in parts, in principle. I think the world would be better off if no one could make additional money by just lending and leasing money to others. It is neither a constructive nor a creative effort. Economical policy and the behavior of companies and the widespread economic selfishness would look different if the principle of interest earnings (Zinserträge) coming from lending/leasing money would not exist.

But I am straying off into utopias...

[lesrae]

HSBC Bank has established a special unit, Amanah Bank, to offer Muslim banking services, which are organised so that they do not levy interest charges, which are condemned in the Koran as usury.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9063-2381575,00.html




Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?

So what?

[Konovalov]

HSBC Bank has established a special unit, Amanah Bank, to offer Muslim banking services, which are organised so that they do not levy interest charges, which are condemned in the Koran as usury.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9063-2381575,00.html




Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?

Who the *&%! do you think you are calling me a Nazi? How the heck does it hurt or affect you in me seeking an account at a bank that does not earn me interest/money in an improper way that's against my religious beliefs. Give me a break. I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm done here.

[aaken]

Even the thread name is wrong. Muslims are not excused paying bank charges, there are special bank account types for muslims in which they do not get any interest. They do pay the bank account charges. They just don't get any interest. Posting an article without even reading it :nope:

[August]

Actually, this is one of the extremely rare occasions were I tend to agree with Islam, at least in parts, in principle. I think the world would be better off if no one could make additional money by just lending and leasing money to others. It is neither a constructive nor a creative effort. Economical policy and the behavior of companies and the widespread economic selfishness would look different if the principle of interest earnings (Zinserträge) coming from lending/leasing money would not exist.

But I am straying off into utopias...

But without interest what incentive would there be to lend a person money for a new house or car or whatever? Every time a bank makes a loan to someone they risk that person being unable to pay it back. It seems to me what you're asking is for free money.

[XabbaRus]

What's the big deal.

Maybe you should go back to your Daily Mail.

[STEED]

HSBC Bank has established a special unit, Amanah Bank, to offer Muslim banking services, which are organised so that they do not levy interest charges, which are condemned in the Koran as usury.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9063-2381575,00.html


This is old news I remember this from last year.

[Skybird]

Actually, this is one of the extremely rare occasions were I tend to agree with Islam, at least in parts, in principle. I think the world would be better off if no one could make additional money by just lending and leasing money to others. It is neither a constructive nor a creative effort. Economical policy and the behavior of companies and the widespread economic selfishness would look different if the principle of interest earnings (Zinserträge) coming from lending/leasing money would not exist.

But I am straying off into utopias...

But without interest what incentive would there be to lend a person money for a new house or car or whatever? Every time a bank makes a loan to someone they risk that person being unable to pay it back. It seems to me what you're asking is for free money.

Well, if an apple costs one dollar, and you have three dollars - how many apples can you buy...?

Sure it would be a different world. But would it necessarily be worse? Polcie considers you to fulfill one criterion for identifying you as a terror suspect if you do not have a certain ammount of financial debts on your banking account. That normal we consider it to live on tick! Escpeically the USA is living on tick, too, massively, and all Western nations also do so, to lesser degrees. We are consuming financial values that even do not exist! And this is not absurd...?

[August]

Well, if an apple costs one dollar, and you have three dollars - how many apples can you buy...?

Sure it would be a different world. But would it necessarily be worse? Polcie considers you to fulfill one criterion for identifying you as a terror suspect if you do not have a certain ammount of financial debts on your banking account. That normal we consider it to live on tick! Escpeically the USA is living on tick, too, massively, and all Western nations also do so, to lesser degrees. We are consuming financial values that even do not exist! And this is not absurd...?

That's all very interesting but it has absolutely nothing to do with asking people to lend you money for that house or car or whatever you need now without them getting some compensation for the risk they're taking.

[Skybird]

And where it is written that lending money must be considered as a common business? I told you, the world would look different without this mechanism. Look beyond it. Families would need to help their offspring to get a house for their families started. It would be build on soldi existing financial ground, therefore. Instead people ned to take risks and makeing bits on a future that is uncertain, and spend money that they actually do not have. People would have learned since their childhood that they can only pay with what they have. The idea of credit frames and living on tick would be unknown, somehow. Today, kids are learning that they could get a plastic card, and then can pay with what they will not have even one year later. Bank's power and influence would be much more minor. No speculation at stock markets. Sounds far more healthy to me. for arch-capitalists that take profit from the existing system this necessarily must sound like heresy. but it would lead to a situation where people that own more than others still would be in a siutation where they could have oinly far lesser power over others, than it is today. Instead we have an economy that makes decisions not in the interests of a comopany and it'S owner and employees, but hires and fires in a way that maximize the profits of speculating outsiders that have nothing to do with that company'S business at all, and have no interests for it other than to make as much money by letting others do the dirty work.And somehow, that complete system is absurd. especially the last 10-15 years have tought millions of employees in Western nations how absurd it is indeed. They saw totally foreign people makiong big cash by destroying the jobs where the wokrers had to work before - for the profit interests of those that now kicked the down the stairway. Globalisation is fun? The blowback from Asia has started to roll. We already feel it in strength in Europe, and in America sooner or later you will, too. It's our own recipe, turned against us. And it will hurt us immensely.

[August]

And where it is written that lending money must be considered as a common business? I told you, the world would look different without this mechanism. Look beyond it. Families would need to help their offspring to get a house for their families started. It would be build on soldi existing financial ground, therefore. Instead people ned to take risks and makeing bits on a future that is uncertain, and spend money that they actually do not have. People would have learned since their childhood that they can only pay with what they have. The idea of credit frames and living on tick would be unknown, somehow. Today, kids are learning that they could get a plastic card, and then can pay with what they will not have even one year later. Bank's power and influence would be much more minor. No speculation at stock markets. Sounds far more healthy to me. for arch-capitalists that take profit from the existing system this necessarily must sound like heresy. but it would lead to a situation where people that own more than others still would be in a siutation where they could have oinly far lesser power over others, than it is today. Instead we have an economy that makes decisions not in the interests of a comopany and it'S owner and employees, but hires and fires in a way that maximize the profits of speculating outsiders that have nothing to do with that company'S business at all, and have no interests for it other than to make as much money by letting others do the dirty work.And somehow, that complete system is absurd. especially the last 10-15 years have tought millions of employees in Western nations how absurd it is indeed. They saw totally foreign people makiong big cash by destroying the jobs where the wokrers had to work before - for the profit interests of those that now kicked the down the stairway. Globalisation is fun? The blowback from Asia has started to roll. We already feel it in strength in Europe, and in America sooner or later you will, too. It's our own recipe, turned against us. And it will hurt us immensely.

You'll get no argument from me on that, but the practice of lending money for profit is far too entrenched in society for it to be changed now.

[fredbass]

Businesses won't stay in business if they don't make money. :know: August is correct. Lending will continue. The risk will still be there, so the interest charges will still be there for most. It's a fact of life. But remember, you don't have to borrow. That is still your option to make.

[SUBMAN1]

To remove lending from society would have been to hinder the progress of a society. Look at Muslims for evidence of this.

How would the US Gov borrowed so much to do so much if it had no ability to borrow? Freeways is an example of this. If the US Gov did not borrow to pay for Freeways way back when, it would have not taken over as the richest country the world has ever seen.

-S

PS. Do not be fooled by our National Debt either - the US Gov has already worked it out to only pay $.05 on the dollar of it. This is your first clue as a citizen that saving money is a bad idea, regardless what you were told by your parents.

[Skybird]

To remove lending from society would have been to hinder the progress of a society. Look at Muslims for evidence of this.

How would the US Gov borrowed so much to do so much if it had no ability to borrow? Freeways is an example of this. If the US Gov did not borrow to pay for Freeways way back when, it would have not taken over as the richest country the world has ever seen.

-S

PS. Do not be fooled by our National Debt either - the US Gov has already worked it out to only pay $.05 on the dollar of it. This is your first clue as a citizen that saving money is a bad idea, regardless what you were told by your parents.

All those arguments are complete nonstarters. We had this discussion before, and I wrote about it before and adressed this points, 1.5-2 years ago, so I just refer to the superb book by Paul Kennedy (once again :D ) which holds a thourough description of the interaction between economy, finance sector/taxes, and military in the european nations since 1500: "Rise and Fall of the great Powers" (one of the best history books I've ever red, highly recommended!), note that the talk is not only if "rise", but also of "fall"; and if you are fluid in German: Herfried Münkler "Imperien. Die Logik der Weltherrschaft, vom Alten Rom bis zu den Vereinigten Staaten", which also is an outstanding read. The situations and unhealthy financial structures of today are nothing new, they had been seen by empires before, and in one way or another also contributed to their fall. Think of it as financial overstretching like the term usually is used for military descriptions.

If one apple costs one dollar, and you have three dollars - how many apples can you buy...?

[The Avon Lady]

If one apple costs one dollar, and you have three dollars - how many apples can you buy...?
From 1 to 3.

What if I need 20 for a luncheon? :hmm:

[Skybird]

You spend 17 additional days to put one dollar separate each day. ;)

BTW, I am living myself by the principle of not spending more money than I have. Works great, and gives a calm consciousness - I have no financial debts. Needless to say that I cannot buy everything that I want, but that can be dealt with by switching off TV commercials, for example :lol:

[SubSerpent]

Money is just evil altogether! We should just trade! :rock:

Skybird will you build me a BMW if I bake you some cookies?

I'd like the convertable top Z3 model :up:

What type of cookies do you like?

[Skybird]

You don't want me to build a BMW, believe me. ;) I even don't own a car :lol: and haven't driven one since 18 years (some landrover adventures during travelling not counted - but that has nothign to do with car driving in germany... :lol: )What I like in rally-style driving is that I must not take care of traffic signs and other traffic on the road.

that's the deeper reason behind my love for SBP :lol:

[SubSerpent]

You don't want me to build a BMW, believe me. ;)


Just do it! And stop arguing with me or I'll burn your cookies! :p

[TteFAboB]

Responsibility.

Yes, virtual money, inflation and Keynes suck. So does Rockfeller and Rothschild. But with the internet at anyone's disposal the reason for people's failure to maintain a healthy financial life is certainly not rational.

If you want a realistic idea to fix living on credit, get every kid out there a 50$ or 100$ limit CC card and let them learn from an early age that you're supposed to spend only as much as you can afford and that credit should be invested, not wasted or spent, on assets, not passives, since you must return the interests. It's better to have them suffer for one year attempting to pay for the Playstation 4 and learn a valuable life-long lesson from it than wait untill adulthood to deal with big toys, such as a house. We also need better Business Management schools. They need to teach people not to rely on loans and to avoid putting a company at a bank's feet, depending on loan after loan untill the company finally can't pay them anymore and the Bank buys them off, same for agricultural companies and independant farmers.

Yes, I have not a single debt, owe nothing to nobody, I used to have 4 or 5 CC's with a huge combined credit sum, good for withdrawing all at once and running away if I ever needed to but a waste to be used on consumer goods and that's the reason why I've never used it. Now I'm down to 2 CC's and even though they keep throwing fantastic offers at me, I only use them when I want to pay for something on the following month or at internet shops that leave me no alternative. To me a CC is not a magic piece of plastic from the neverending credit land, but a convenient tool to carry less hard cash on my wallet. If this use of a CC is not profitable for the company, then they shouldn't be playing with imaginary money and hoping for me to bite onto this dream, should they?

What Islam has to do with any of this? Well, their Iman needs improving: this bank is charging interests everywhere else, can't they see the blatant infidelity or do they just want some of the infidel's credit to call it their own? We can lend them other things too, if they're interested.

[Narcosis]

Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?
Who the *&%! do you think you are calling me a Nazi? How the heck does it hurt or affect you in me seeking an account at a bank that does not earn me interest/money in an improper way that's against my religious beliefs. Give me a break. I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm done here.
Every one else has the burden of paying higher interest rates, while these Muslim spongers get free hand outs.

As for Nazis. What part of history don't you understand , Here educate your self:

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

[Narcosis]

Even the thread name is wrong. Muslims are not excused paying bank charges, there are special bank account types for muslims in which they do not get any interest. They do pay the bank account charges. They just don't get any interest. Posting an article without even reading it :nope:

Interest charges are bank charges. :lol:

As for not reading the article, i did. May be it's the English language that you have difficulty in ?

[aaken]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. These bank accounts (which already exist, at least here in belgium) you're talking about won't earn the owner of the bank account an interest. Ergo, it is the owner of the bank account who does not get the interests from the bank, not the other way around. I'll try to be even more clear. The muslim that opens such an account will pay his bank charges (for account opening, annual fees for the bank account, fees for the credit cards, fees for the ATM card and so on). But he will not get the interest rates. If the muslim guy asks a loan to the bank, he will pay the interests on the money he's borrowed from the bank. Ergo these "muslim spongers" are not getting any free hand out. I think you've been confusing the interest rates on a loan from a bank with the interest rates of a normal bank account.

As for not reading the article, i did. May be it's the English language that you have difficulty in ? :rotfl: you're a funny guy, you know?

[Konovalov]

Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?
Who the *&%! do you think you are calling me a Nazi? How the heck does it hurt or affect you in me seeking an account at a bank that does not earn me interest/money in an improper way that's against my religious beliefs. Give me a break. I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm done here.
Every one else has the burden of paying higher interest rates, while these Muslim spongers get free hand outs.

As for Nazis. What part of history don't you understand , Here educate your self:

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

Insults and arrogance won't get you very far and I'm referring to before your post was detoxed by the moderators. :nope:

My brother-in-law is a bank manager for HSBC and if you like I can have him run you thru how things work. Better still why don't you phone HSBC and find out for yourself. In the end you will find that it is no different from any other account in terms of overall cost.

I don't appreciate being labelled by you as a "Muslim sponger". I have never taken a single handout in my life be it any benefit from the UK government. HSBC like ALL Banks charge fees, charges and interest. Besides, there is nothing stopping you from opening one of these accounts with HSBC. Anyone within the UK can open one of these accounts.

It's all about choice. YOU HAVE THE CHOICE of any account with any bank. Find the one that's best for you. Stop your hysterical sensationalist whining. Xabbarus put it best when he said earlier in this thread:


What's the big deal.

Maybe you should go back to your Daily Mail.


Here endeth the lesson! :roll:

[Narcosis]

Who they hell do they think they are, NAZIS ?
Who the *&%! do you think you are calling me a Nazi? How the heck does it hurt or affect you in me seeking an account at a bank that does not earn me interest/money in an improper way that's against my religious beliefs. Give me a break. I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm done here.
Every one else has the burden of paying higher interest rates, while these Muslim spongers get free hand outs.

As for Nazis. What part of history don't you understand , Here educate your self:

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
Insults and arrogance won't get you very far and I'm referring to before your post was detoxed by the moderators. :nope:

My brother-in-law is a bank manager for HSBC and if you like I can have him run you thru how things work. Better still why don't you phone HSBC and find out for yourself. In the end you will find that it is no different from any other account in terms of overall cost.

I don't appreciate being labelled by you as a "Muslim sponger". I have never taken a single handout in my life be it any benefit from the UK government. HSBC like ALL Banks charge fees, charges and interest. Besides, there is nothing stopping you from opening one of these accounts with HSBC. Anyone within the UK can open one of these accounts.

It's all about choice. YOU HAVE THE CHOICE of any account with any bank. Find the one that's best for you. Stop your hysterical sensationalist whining. Xabbarus put it best when he said earlier in this thread:


What's the big deal.

Maybe you should go back to your Daily Mail.

Here endeth the lesson! :roll:


HSBC Bank has established a special unit, Amanah Bank, to offer Muslim banking services. Which are organised so that they do not levy interest charges ( the plural), which are condemned in the Koran as usury.

They don’t pay interest on bank services (plural)

It simple English.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9063-2381575,00.html

[Konovalov]

Narcosis,

Have a look at the fees and charges and restrictions on these accounts. In addition these accounts from HSBC do not earn interest payed into your account. Again as I said earlier, these types of accounts are open to all of the public, even you Narcosis. As consumers we all can pick and choose be it banking and finance, internet service provider, or any thing else for that matter. This is not sponging as you wrongly label it. Please go and speak with your financial advisor. :lol:

[Narcosis]

[quote=Konovalov][quote=Narcosis]





As for Nazis. What part of history don't you understand , Here educate your self:

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
Insults and arrogance won't get you very far and I'm referring to before your post was detoxed by the moderators. :nope:



http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

Denying the truth is no insult.

Arrogance, is denial of the truth

Just like Iran denies the Holocaust as most Mulsims do. Hence why they have holocaust cartoon competitions.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2027749,00.html

[Konovalov]

[quote=Konovalov][quote=Narcosis]





As for Nazis. What part of history don't you understand , Here educate your self:

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
Insults and arrogance won't get you very far and I'm referring to before your post was detoxed by the moderators. :nope:



http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

Denying the truth is no insult.

Arrogance, is denial of the truth

Just like Iran denies the Holocaust as most Mulsims do. Hence why they have holocaust cartoon competitions.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2027749,00.html

What does this have to do with the price of a loaf of bread or in this case with Muslims banking in Britain?

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.

[The Avon Lady]

The article is inconclusive to answering the only question I see here as being relevant: can non-Muslims open such an account if they want to or are these accounts exclusively for Muslims only?

There is another relevant subject here, the Islamization of Europe, with England being one of the first that will fall. However, there are plenty of existing threads that already deal specifically with that overall issue.

[Narcosis]

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.


False and utterly misleading :rock:, so where is your evidence or references, ?

Here i will help you look for it. Go and visit the HSBC bank on line and search the subject that i started, and go and prove me wrong.

http://www.hsbc.co.uk (http://www.hsbc.co.uk/)

[Konovalov]

The article is inconclusive to answering the only question I see here as being relevant: can non-Muslims open such an account if they want to or are these accounts exclusively for Muslims only?

Simple answer. Yes. Call HSBC yourself if you like. The only requirements that you need to open an account are the normal things such as proof of residency in the UK, passport, id documentation and so forth.

[Konovalov]

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.


False and utterly misleading :rock:, so where is your evidence or references, ?

Here i will help you look for it. Go and visit the HSBC bank on line and search the subject that i started, and go and prove me wrong.

http://www.hsbc.co.uk (http://www.hsbc.co.uk/)

:roll:

From the HSBC Amanah Bank Account Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/bank-account/fees.html


Overdrafts
You are not permitted to overdraw this account.
If the account is overdrawn: overdraft review fee - £25.00*
*Important Notes

£25.00 may be charged on each occasion that you:- go overdrawn or further overdrawn
You will not be charged a review fee if you go overdrawn or further overdrawn by £10 or less.
You will not be charged a review fee if you have not gone overdrawn in the last 6 months.
You will not be charged review fees for more than the amount by which you have gone overdrawn in any one month.
You will only be charged review fees a maximum of 5 times in any one month.We reserve the right to change our fees and when we will and will not charge fees from time to time.
Debit card

Using your Card abroad
Cash Machines: At all machines displaying a Maestro/Cirrus logo 1.5% of the cash advance (minimum £1.75)
Point of Sale: Wherever you see the Maestro logo Free.
Full fee details are contained in the Amanah Price List
Important Information
† For charging purposes a month is not a calendar month but begins on the date your account opens. For example, if you opened your account on 20th January, your charging period will be from the 20th of each month to the 19th of the following month.


And now from the HSBC Amanah Home Finance Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/home-finance/fees.html


Fee NameFeePayable when…Application Fee£275you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Valuation FeeFrom £90 (based on the value of the property)you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Administration Fee£40your monthly Amanah payment is not received by the due date.Statement Fee£5you request an interim and / or duplicate statement.Copy Document Fee£5a copy document is requested.Copy Deeds Fee£5a copy of the Title Deeds is requested.Settlement Fee£210the property is sold under either the Promise to Sell or the Promise to Buy. This represents our legal costs relating to that sale.

Note: You will also be required to pay any additional costs covering independent legal representation and associated disbursement fees.
Important Information:
Your home will be at risk if you do not keep up the monthly payments on your Home Finance.


The above are all bank charges and fees hence the topic title is misleading and indeed false. Edited to add links directly to fee and charges sections at HSBC.

[Narcosis]

The article is inconclusive to answering the only question I see here as being relevant: can non-Muslims open such an account if they want to or are these accounts exclusively for Muslims only?
Simple answer. Yes. Call HSBC yourself if you like. The only requirements that you need to open an account are the normal things such as proof of residency in the UK, passport, id documentation and so forth.

:rotfl:Yes, ask also why you are denied credit cards (not debit) and other items, that Konovalov seems to have forgot to mention. Ask also, do they pay interest on loans while opening these accounts?

Which brings me back to the topic i started.

Every one who has credits cards, Loans and who see their bank charges go up. They are compensating for such dumb ass ideas of Sharia banking.
It's like council tax. It goes up if more people are sitting about, sponging on the benefits system.

If banks have to provide extra services and work for a minority who wish for a different banking system. Some one else has to pay, for these extra services and for those are not paying interest charges. (That is why they are not getting credit cards :rock:)

[Narcosis]

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.


False and utterly misleading :rock:, so where is your evidence or references, ?

Here i will help you look for it. Go and visit the HSBC bank on line and search the subject that i started, and go and prove me wrong.

http://www.hsbc.co.uk (http://www.hsbc.co.uk/)
:roll:

From the HSBC Amanah Bank Account Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/bank-account/fees.html


Overdrafts
You are not permitted to overdraw this account.
If the account is overdrawn: overdraft review fee - £25.00*
*Important Notes
£25.00 may be charged on each occasion that you:- go overdrawn or further overdrawn
You will not be charged a review fee if you go overdrawn or further overdrawn by £10 or less.
You will not be charged a review fee if you have not gone overdrawn in the last 6 months.
You will not be charged review fees for more than the amount by which you have gone overdrawn in any one month.
You will only be charged review fees a maximum of 5 times in any one month.We reserve the right to change our fees and when we will and will not charge fees from time to time.
Debit card

Using your Card abroad
Cash Machines: At all machines displaying a Maestro/Cirrus logo 1.5% of the cash advance (minimum £1.75)
Point of Sale: Wherever you see the Maestro logo Free.
Full fee details are contained in the Amanah Price List
Important Information
† For charging purposes a month is not a calendar month but begins on the date your account opens. For example, if you opened your account on 20th January, your charging period will be from the 20th of each month to the 19th of the following month.

And now from the HSBC Amanah Home Finance Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/home-finance/fees.html


Fee NameFeePayable when…Application Fee£275you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Valuation FeeFrom £90 (based on the value of the property)you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Administration Fee£40your monthly Amanah payment is not received by the due date.Statement Fee£5you request an interim and / or duplicate statement.Copy Document Fee£5a copy document is requested.Copy Deeds Fee£5a copy of the Title Deeds is requested.Settlement Fee£210the property is sold under either the Promise to Sell or the Promise to Buy. This represents our legal costs relating to that sale.

Note: You will also be required to pay any additional costs covering independent legal representation and associated disbursement fees.
Important Information:
Your home will be at risk if you do not keep up the monthly payments on your Home Finance.

The above are all bank charges and fees hence the topic title is misleading and indeed false. Edited to add links directly to fee and charges sections at HSBC.



I started the conversion about Interest charges. So what are you trying to point out here?

[Konovalov]

Which brings me back to the topic i started.

Every one who has credits cards, Loans and who see their bank charges go up. They are compensating for such dumb ass ideas of Sharia banking.
It's like council tax. It goes up if more people are sitting about, sponging on the benefits system.

If banks have to provide extra services and work for a minority who wish for a different banking system. Some one else has to pay, for these extra services and for those are not paying interest charges. (That is why they are not getting credit cards :rock:)

I have been around long enough to know and see that my bank fees, bank charges and interest rate fees have always been going up over my life time and that was before this relatively new service by HSBC. But feel free to go on blaming Muslims now for increasing fees and higher interest rates. :roll: By the way interest rates aren't determined or influenced by what you label as sponging Muslims. I don't know why I continue to bother. :shifty:

[Konovalov]

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.


False and utterly misleading :rock:, so where is your evidence or references, ?

Here i will help you look for it. Go and visit the HSBC bank on line and search the subject that i started, and go and prove me wrong.

http://www.hsbc.co.uk (http://www.hsbc.co.uk/)
:roll:

From the HSBC Amanah Bank Account Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/bank-account/fees.html


Overdrafts
You are not permitted to overdraw this account.
If the account is overdrawn: overdraft review fee - £25.00*
*Important Notes

£25.00 may be charged on each occasion that you:- go overdrawn or further overdrawn
You will not be charged a review fee if you go overdrawn or further overdrawn by £10 or less.
You will not be charged a review fee if you have not gone overdrawn in the last 6 months.
You will not be charged review fees for more than the amount by which you have gone overdrawn in any one month.
You will only be charged review fees a maximum of 5 times in any one month.We reserve the right to change our fees and when we will and will not charge fees from time to time.
Debit card

Using your Card abroad
Cash Machines: At all machines displaying a Maestro/Cirrus logo 1.5% of the cash advance (minimum £1.75)
Point of Sale: Wherever you see the Maestro logo Free.
Full fee details are contained in the Amanah Price List
Important Information
† For charging purposes a month is not a calendar month but begins on the date your account opens. For example, if you opened your account on 20th January, your charging period will be from the 20th of each month to the 19th of the following month.

And now from the HSBC Amanah Home Finance Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/home-finance/fees.html


Fee NameFeePayable when…Application Fee£275you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Valuation FeeFrom £90 (based on the value of the property)you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Administration Fee£40your monthly Amanah payment is not received by the due date.Statement Fee£5you request an interim and / or duplicate statement.Copy Document Fee£5a copy document is requested.Copy Deeds Fee£5a copy of the Title Deeds is requested.Settlement Fee£210the property is sold under either the Promise to Sell or the Promise to Buy. This represents our legal costs relating to that sale.

Note: You will also be required to pay any additional costs covering independent legal representation and associated disbursement fees.
Important Information:
Your home will be at risk if you do not keep up the monthly payments on your Home Finance.

The above are all bank charges and fees hence the topic title is misleading and indeed false. Edited to add links directly to fee and charges sections at HSBC.



I started the conversion about Interest charges. So what are you trying to point out here?

That your topic title is misleading and in the case of the UK utterly false.

[The Avon Lady]

Narcosis, can you or can you not open such an account?

[Narcosis]

By the way your topic title "Muslims in many countries are excused paying bank charges" is patently false and utterly misleading.


False and utterly misleading :rock:, so where is your evidence or references, ?

Here i will help you look for it. Go and visit the HSBC bank on line and search the subject that i started, and go and prove me wrong.

http://www.hsbc.co.uk (http://www.hsbc.co.uk/)
:roll:

From the HSBC Amanah Bank Account Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/bank-account/fees.html


Overdrafts
You are not permitted to overdraw this account.
If the account is overdrawn: overdraft review fee - £25.00*
*Important Notes
£25.00 may be charged on each occasion that you:- go overdrawn or further overdrawn
You will not be charged a review fee if you go overdrawn or further overdrawn by £10 or less.
You will not be charged a review fee if you have not gone overdrawn in the last 6 months.
You will not be charged review fees for more than the amount by which you have gone overdrawn in any one month.
You will only be charged review fees a maximum of 5 times in any one month.We reserve the right to change our fees and when we will and will not charge fees from time to time.
Debit card

Using your Card abroad
Cash Machines: At all machines displaying a Maestro/Cirrus logo 1.5% of the cash advance (minimum £1.75)
Point of Sale: Wherever you see the Maestro logo Free.
Full fee details are contained in the Amanah Price List
Important Information
† For charging purposes a month is not a calendar month but begins on the date your account opens. For example, if you opened your account on 20th January, your charging period will be from the 20th of each month to the 19th of the following month.

And now from the HSBC Amanah Home Finance Fees section:

http://www.hsbcamanah.co.uk/amanahuk/home-finance/fees.html


Fee NameFeePayable when…Application Fee£275you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Valuation FeeFrom £90 (based on the value of the property)you complete your Amanah Home Finance application.Administration Fee£40your monthly Amanah payment is not received by the due date.Statement Fee£5you request an interim and / or duplicate statement.Copy Document Fee£5a copy document is requested.Copy Deeds Fee£5a copy of the Title Deeds is requested.Settlement Fee£210the property is sold under either the Promise to Sell or the Promise to Buy. This represents our legal costs relating to that sale.

Note: You will also be required to pay any additional costs covering independent legal representation and associated disbursement fees.
Important Information:
Your home will be at risk if you do not keep up the monthly payments on your Home Finance.

The above are all bank charges and fees hence the topic title is misleading and indeed false. Edited to add links directly to fee and charges sections at HSBC.


I started the conversion about Interest charges. So what are you trying to point out here?
That your topic title is misleading and in the case of the UK utterly false.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2002/06/10/324525/index.htm


Islamic Banking is Not Islamic:

http://www.islamic-finance.com/item100_f.htm



The Great Islamic Mortgage Caper (using the Islamic banking pratices in the UK)

http://www.islamic-finance.com/item122_f.htm



“Islamic Finance is based on interpretations from the Qua ran. Its two central tenants are no interest can be earned on loans”

http://www.financeprofessor.com/islamicfinance/islamic%20finance.htm


So the above are also wrong and false in what they say….:rock::lol:


If you can not pass evidence or references to your claims (like i correctly do). Then stop waffling.

[Konovalov]

Narcosis, can you or can you not open such an account?

Avon Lady,

I have phoned HSBC who have confirmed to me that the opening of an Amanah account is open to anyone providing they meet the standard identity, secuirty, financial checks ect. You do not have to prove that you are Muslim or of any religous/ethnic background.

Also I know that the Islamic Bank of Britain has the same policy where these services are open to anyone. In fact from this article:

http://www.sundayherald.com/58052


The bank is advised by Islamic scholars, who must approve all new products, and it also undergoes a quarterly Sharia compliance audit. Piranie said that the bank’s ethical stance as well as the transparency of its charging structure and investment policy have attracted a number of non-Muslim customers. “At one point 20% of our customers in Leicester were non-Muslims,” he said.


I have not checked with Lloyds TSB who I'm sure also offer a similar product but I would assume that they would also have the same sort of policy as HSBC and the Islamic Bank of Britain. I hope that answers your question.

[Konovalov]

If you can not pass evidence or references to your claims (like i correctly do). Then stop waffling.

I present evidence to back up my claims and all you do is change the topic or move the goal posts from one issue to another. I'm afraid this has become a wasted exercise. I've got better things to do.

[Narcosis]

If you can not pass evidence or references to your claims (like i correctly do). Then stop waffling.
I present evidence to back up my claims and all you do is change the topic or move the goal posts from one issue to another. I'm afraid this has become a wasted exercise. I've got better things to do.

Again, read and check my original (The first Topic) comment and check message # 40.
We are talking about muslims not paying interest at banks.

The only one moving Goal posts, is you taking about who can have a Muslim accounts and over draft charges, and bread.

Your showing signs of a poor education, when ignorance and blind denial is all that you deliver, with wide sweeping remarks backed up by misleading information.
Using no references or links.

I have provided numerous links as evidence and repeated my self many times in this debate, we are talking about “interest charges” that Muslims don’t pay in many banks across the UK and World.

For your perusal I provided links to CNN (in message 40) with other links to prove my original comment. Yet you ignore them.


Ignorance they say is Bliss. In your case its pandemic.

[XabbaRus]

Hmmm

Do a search and you find that Muslims do get charged interest. Usary is considered when a bank charges excessive interest.

That article is badly written as to be confusing.

Even before this was posted I heard about these kinds of accounts and I have always understood it to mean that they don't receive interest.

How is a bank supposed to survive by not charging interest on a loan, muslim bank or any other bank?

Look there are some things in this world and the reaction of SOME muslims to events that have pissed me off but to suddenly blame muslims for increased bank charges that we have to pay is pretty much the same as Hitler blaming the jews for the depression in Germany after WWI. We pay increased bank charges because the banks can get away with it. Basically greed. A certain Barclays bank comes to mind.

Really I can't give two ****s as long as we get on. Oh as for the England being the first to fall, give me a break. I've had it with the hysteria and paranoia. I just want to live my life. And spare me any of your belittling comments, that's all I ask.

[The Avon Lady]

If you can not pass evidence or references to your claims (like i correctly do). Then stop waffling.
I present evidence to back up my claims and all you do is change the topic or move the goal posts from one issue to another. I'm afraid this has become a wasted exercise. I've got better things to do.

Again, read and check my original (The first Topic) comment and check message # 40.
We are talking about muslims not paying interest at banks.

The only one moving Goal posts, is you taking about who can have a Muslim accounts and over draft charges, and bread.

Your showing signs of a poor education, when ignorance and blind denial is all that you deliver, with wide sweeping remarks backed up by misleading information.
Using no references or links.

I have provided numerous links as evidence and repeated my self many times in this debate, we are talking about “interest charges” that Muslims don’t pay in many banks across the UK and World.

For your perusal I provided links to CNN (in message 40) with other links to prove my original comment. Yet you ignore them.


Ignorance they say is Bliss. In your case its pandemic.
You've lost me. I read everything you and Konovalov posted. Any UK citizen can open such an account and is free to chose between such an account versus other accounts.

[lesrae]

You've lost me. I read everything you and Konovalov posted. Any UK citizen can open such an account and is free to chose between such an account versus other accounts.

Ah yes, but that headline has no extremist or racist overtones so it'd be no fun for some people to post.

[kiwi_2005]

well i suppose if the world is willing to bend over backwards for them then whos to blame?

[Yahoshua]

(eats popcorn):up:

On with the show!!

[NEON DEON]

(eats popcorn):up:

On with the show!!

LOL! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Congrats!

That is beyond a doubt the best post I have read today!:rock: :rock: :rock:

Tune in for the next great General Forums thread:

"Hitler wasn't really a bad guy. He was just misunderstood."

[The Avon Lady]

(eats popcorn):up:

On with the show!!

LOL! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Congrats!

That is beyond a doubt the best post I have read today!:rock: :rock: :rock:
You must be new here. :roll:
Tune in for the next great General Forums thread:

"Hitler wasn't really a bad guy. He was just misunderstood."
You must be new here. :roll:

[porphy]

Might be interesting to see this thread in conjunction with the noble prize winner Muhammad Yunus and his Grameen Bank...

You know, there is no natural law that says that every man must pay interest charge. And the dubious conclusion that it's somehow unfair or even a kind of "bend over" if some don't, which seems to be the point of view of one or two people here, is simply blind to their own bending over in a system called capitalism.
It's also quiet a difference between compensation for risk when lending money and doing buissnes for profit by lending money.

Cheers Porphy

[Skybird]

It's also quiet a difference between compensation for risk when lending money and doing buissnes for profit by lending money.

:up: That is the point.

[Yahoshua]

Just to clarify my former post, It's because i have little knowledge in banking and watching people wave red flags when I have little understandable information as to how the intiricacies of the banking system works......and I was a bit bored.

(Okay, I admit that I'm too lazy to find out what it's about either right now).

[The Avon Lady]

(Okay, I admit that I'm too lazy to find out what it's about either right now).Same subject, new article:

Islamic-safe finance grows in the West (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013573.php)