US 'cannot allow' nuclear N Korea (Merged)

[NEON DEON]

North Korea has announced it will conduct nuclear tests and a whole lotta peops aint happy! Me included.:down:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061003/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_nuclear_12;_ylt=AozHaL42ydaZK1GnihPlyxWCscE A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[SubSerpent]

I'm not worried! The North Koreans have stated they would never launch first and not allow their nukes to leave their country.

US is the only one instilling fear in me. The US is crazy enough to use WMD first. It happened before in WWII - twice within 3 days apart!

[August]

US is the only one instilling fear in me.

Good.

[tycho102]

Yeah, what's the big deal? So they're testing a bomb. Is it going to disrupt our satellites or something?

[ASWnut101]

then why don't you go to NK? They would "love" to have you there......you know, they just love Americans:up:

[SubSerpent]

US is the only one instilling fear in me.

Good.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Is it your goal to instill fear into the hearts and minds of your own countrymen? If so, you are a terrorist since instilling fear into someone is to commit a terrorist act.

[SubSerpent]

then why don't you go to NK? They would "love" to have you there......you know, they just love Americans:up:


Why don't you go there instead? Tell them that you are brainwashed Bush supporter and that you're there to take over their country. I'm sure that would go over a lot better than me going there. I hear they love Pro Bush Americans even more :up:

[ASWnut101]

maby I should, and take a few tac-nukes with me, to "test" them out......

[SkvyWvr]

then why don't you go to NK? They would "love" to have you there......you know, they just love Americans:up:


Why don't you go there instead? Tell them that you are brainwashed Bush supporter and that you're there to take over their country. I'm sure that would go over a lot better than me going there. I hear they love Pro Bush Americans even more :up:

:o Don't we already have several Bush bashing threads?

[SubSerpent]

Yeah, what's the big deal? So they're testing a bomb. Is it going to disrupt our satellites or something?


It's all about control. If you are gungho American Pro Bush patsy of course you are going to have a problem with anyone else in the world having nukes and testing them out.

I say, it's their country, it's their right to do WTF they want to do in it or below the ground for that matter. I'm sick of the US always saying "no no no, that's a naughty and the world is going to be mad about it'... How gay! :nope:

[ASWnut101]

wonder if your still going to say that after they nuke japan and south korea, as well as teh west coast USA?

[SubSerpent]

maby I should, and take a few tac-nukes with me, to "test" them out......


Go for it! I'm sure they will just love that even more! :up:

[SubSerpent]

then why don't you go to NK? They would "love" to have you there......you know, they just love Americans:up:


Why don't you go there instead? Tell them that you are brainwashed Bush supporter and that you're there to take over their country. I'm sure that would go over a lot better than me going there. I hear they love Pro Bush Americans even more :up:

:o Don't we already have several Bush bashing threads?


Don't we already have enough Bush threads with you pinpointing that we already have enough Bush threads?

[ASWnut101]

they wont have anything left to love......

[ASWnut101]

then why don't you go to NK? They would "love" to have you there......you know, they just love Americans:up:


Why don't you go there instead? Tell them that you are brainwashed Bush supporter and that you're there to take over their country. I'm sure that would go over a lot better than me going there. I hear they love Pro Bush Americans even more :up:

:o Don't we already have several Bush bashing threads?


Don't we already have enough Bush threads with you pinpointing that we already have enough Bush threads?



Ive only found this one in which he said that.

[Perilscope]

Kim Jong I should feed the poors instead of bolstering its army, NK is going nowhere like that.
Damn it I hate that guy as much I hate fire-ants. :88)

Ooops! Crap! I made a mistake there, Pyongyang is the city.
Thanks ASWnut101 for placing me.

[ASWnut101]

....that guy

Kim Jong Il? who dosen't?

[SubSerpent]

Kim Jong I should feed the poors instead of bolstering its army, NK is going nowhere like that.
Damn it I hate that guy as much I hate fire-ants. :88)

Ooops! Crap! I made a mistake there, Pyongyang is the city.
Thanks ASWnut101 for placing me.


Why do you hate him so much? Have you ever met him in real life? All you know is what anti-communistic media tells you. Obviously you hate him because you hate communism. Communism however is not that bad a thing. To state you hate communism you are stating you hate China, Vietnam, several countries that split up after the collapse of the former Soviet Union. Yet these countries have managed to survive for eons now under this form of government and for some strange reason everyone outside of that country's government has a problem with it.

I say A)It's none of your beeswax what Kim Jong il does with his country B) Don't hate people who are possibly better than you C) Stop worrying what everyone else does and worry only about yourself.

[ASWnut101]

so then stop worring about what we are saying:up:

[August]

I say A)It's none of your beeswax what Kim Jong il does with his country B) Don't hate people who are possibly better than you C) Stop worrying what everyone else does and worry only about yourself.

Maybe you ought to start following your own advice Mr. Bush hater.

[VipertheSniper]

I say A)It's none of your beeswax what Kim Jong il does with his country B) Don't hate people who are possibly better than you C) Stop worrying what everyone else does and worry only about yourself.

Maybe you ought to start following your own advice Mr. Bush hater.

If we would only worry about ourselves what a world would that be? Certainly not one I'd like to live in, that's for sure.

[Perilscope]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:

[ASWnut101]

I actually hope we get to war with them so we can remove a tack in the worlds side. (unless you are from china!)

[waste gate]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:

Don't put subserpent on your ignore list. The man should be heard by you and everyone else. It gives insight as to the thinking of 1/3 of humanity. I personally disagree whith his paradigm but I will not block his view for it only strengthens my position. Open the debate and let all judge the opinion as they will.

[SubSerpent]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:

The truth is too much to take sometimes and people like Periscope feel they should hide it from themselves so they can live in a make believe and fairytale world.

[ASWnut101]

yes, it can be annoying, but by blocking him, that will show that you are weak and dumb (which you aren't), and that will strengthen his will to continue his "conservitives are dumb imbiciles who hate peace"

just re-consider the block. don't show weakness, as it will lead to failure.

[SubSerpent]

yes, it can be annoying, but by blocking him, that will show that you are weak and dumb (which you aren't), and that will strengthen his will to continue his "conservitives are dumb imbiciles who hate peace"

just re-consider the block. don't show weakness, as it will lead to failure.


:rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:
The truth is too much to take sometimes and people like Periscope feel they should hide it from themselves so they can live in a make believe and fairytale world.

Ah. The truth cannot be found on left-wing kook internet blogs or Michael Moore movies. :lol:

Somebody please pass that popcorn.:up:

[Bum]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:

Good idea. I'm just afraid insanity could be contagious and I don't need exposure to a carrier. I can't tell if he really believes that rot or if he's invented some new, weird form of super-trolling. :o

[ASWnut101]

I think both, stuka.

[NEON DEON]

I'm not worried! The North Koreans have stated they would never launch first and not allow their nukes to leave their country.

US is the only one instilling fear in me. The US is crazy enough to use WMD first. It happened before in WWII - twice within 3 days apart!


When I was 7 years old in October of 1962, JFK, Castro, Cruschev, my parents, and TV managed to scare the crap out of me. I lived in New Orleans at the time. This was within striking distance of nuclear missiles that were based in Cuba.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/

I threw my parents into the mix because while I was watching afternoon cartoons, they would often come in and change it to the news. They never bothered to conceal their anguish over the situation and their worry was clearly projected on to their faces. So fixated they were on the crisis, they failed to shoo me out of the room when it came on the news. I, curious to understand what frightened them so, watched along with them. After all, these were my parents. They always protected me and kept me safe. But now, for the first time ever, my parents were scared and unsure of themselves?

I would like to say that my family was the only one affected by this. But that was not the case. This was happening to scores of families around the U. S. Every noon as a test, the Air raid sirens would unleash an eerie wail that kept pitch but changed volume: Civil Defense would hold air raid drills in the schools; as the crisis grew larger, basic survival supplies like canned food and water started to disappear from store shelves. This sort of thing was not new to New Orleans as the same hoarding of goods often took place with the approach of a hurricane. But, this was no hurricane the people were stocking up for; this was the fear and threat of nuclear war.

I am a baby boomer. It is the largest group of people in the U.S. Even though George Bush is a republican (I am a democrat) he is still a boomer too. I am sure he knows the horrific consequences of nuclear war as I am sure that the boomers in the Senate and congress also know.

IMHO

The U.S. is worried about North Korea obtaining Nuclear Weapons.

[Sea Demon]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:
Good idea. I'm just afraid insanity could be contagious and I don't need exposure to a carrier. I can't tell if he really believes that rot or if he's invented some new, weird form of super-trolling. :o


No. His insanity is derived from conspiracy theories. And the belief in those are derived from a perverse hatred of George W. Bush, and seemingly all Republicans. :hmm:

[ASWnut101]

kinda reminds me of Dale Gribble on King of the Hill........

[DanCanovas]

sub serpent is living in a fairy tale land. to call China communist is absolutely absurd! Today China is as capitalist as the West in terms of economics and lets face it, Communism according to Marx is supposed to be about economics. Bush bashing is such an easy wagon to jump on, its boring.. Some people cant accept defeat.

[SubSerpent]

sub serpent is living in a fairy tale land. to call China communist is absolutely absurd! Today China is as capitalist as the West in terms of economics and lets face it, Communism according to Marx is supposed to be about economics. Bush bashing is such an easy wagon to jump on, its boring.. Some people cant accept defeat.


China is still communist and that I'm afraid is a fact Sir. Pure ignorance to state otherwise.


Fact: http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/44515.htm

[ASWnut101]

Fact: that website is four (4) years old.:up:

[joea]

SubSerpent what is wrong with you? I was kind of agreeing with you but taking the side of North Korea is a bit wacko wouldn't you think? Hell if you think their system is so great just answer this question:

Why does South Korea have such a bigger population than the North? How many passed from north to South as opposed to the opposite? In fact, why the heck did so many more people try (and in some cases succeed others not) to cross from East to West Germany and not the opposite?

[TteFAboB]

Kim can't stand being put aside for Iran and Ahmadinejadingdong.

All the concern is with Iran now and Kim has almost been completely forgotten. Nothing hurts Kim more than being forgotten. That's why every North Korean walks with a pin of his Daddy-O, why there are statues, paintings and billboards of him and his old man everywhere you go.

This freak can do whatever he wants with North Koreans. Starve them to death, keep them out of the age of information. Their ancestors accepted it, fought for it and didn't revolted against it, so now their sons will face the consequences, fair enough. What I ask is for a shield, an umbrella, to protect Japan against any funny jokes Kim comes up with.

[waste gate]

sub serpent is living in a fairy tale land. to call China communist is absolutely absurd! Today China is as capitalist as the West in terms of economics and lets face it, Communism according to Marx is supposed to be about economics. Bush bashing is such an easy wagon to jump on, its boring.. Some people cant accept defeat.



China is still communist and that I'm afraid is a fact Sir. Pure ignorance to state otherwise.


By your own admission NK is not communist;

I say A)It's none of your beeswax what Kim Jong il does with his country


That is a dictatorship.

[SubSerpent]

SubSerpent what is wrong with you? I was kind of agreeing with you but taking the side of North Korea is a bit wacko wouldn't you think? Hell if you think their system is so great just answer this question:

Why does South Korea have such a bigger population than the North? How many passed from north to South as opposed to the opposite? In fact, why the heck did so many more people try (and in some cases succeed others not) to cross from East to West Germany and not the opposite?

Nothing is wrong with me. I see nothing wrong with another nation to be able to practice or do what they want to do so long as it doesn't commit to doing it to another nation. What's wrong with that?

I'm not stating the Kim Jong il is my friend or that I worship him or the ground he and his father walked on. Fact is, I know nothing about Kim Jong il and niether do you or any of the rest of us on this forum. The man is a recluse. He is hardly ever seen in public and chooses to live a quiet lifestyle. It is reported that he is a fan of movies and that he likes to make his own. That's about all anyone knows of him.

The non-communistic world would lead you to believe the man is like some form of Dr. Evil or something. Where's the proof? Has he demanded $100 Billion dollars or he will destroy Earth with laser beams from outerspace? No, he hasn't!

Non-communistic society would like you to believe that little green men live on Mars and mean to do us harm. Come on and get real! I really think Micheal Moore was onto something in his 9-11 movie. He stated that Bush's administration created fear into the hearts and minds of the US people with their whole green yellow orange red color scheme. It will never be at green and this makes you afraid. It is a scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers. Of course the only answers that you will get is from the Bush administration that further state that you should be afraid and live in fear. This only empowers them even more.

I really think some of you are scared of your own shadows sometimes. :lol:

Look out! There's a terrorist behind you! No. I'm serious!



They fall for it every time. Just like taking candy from a baby!

:rotfl:

[waste gate]

scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers.

Where did you get this from? If that were the case then all the 'western meddling in the ME and against Islam' would have made them lambs.

[NEON DEON]

scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers.

Where did you get this from? If that were the case then all the 'western meddling in the ME and against Islam' would have made them lambs.

I don't think he will or can answer you.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Kim Jong I should feed the poors instead of bolstering its army, NK is going nowhere like that.
Damn it I hate that guy as much I hate fire-ants. :88)

Ooops! Crap! I made a mistake there, Pyongyang is the city.
Thanks ASWnut101 for placing me.

Why do you hate him so much? Have you ever met him in real life? All you know is what anti-communistic media tells you. Obviously you hate him because you hate communism. Communism however is not that bad a thing. To state you hate communism you are stating you hate China, Vietnam, several countries that split up after the collapse of the former Soviet Union. Yet these countries have managed to survive for eons now under this form of government and for some strange reason everyone outside of that country's government has a problem with it.

I say A)It's none of your beeswax what Kim Jong il does with his country B) Don't hate people who are possibly better than you C) Stop worrying what everyone else does and worry only about yourself.
Let's see, what nice things has Kim Jong Ill done?

1. In 1997, murdered some coup plotters by setting them on fire w/kerosene
2. Got chubby in a country where the average daily intake of calories was like 400 calories
3. Wants aid, but no oversight for that aid. Most likely so he can prioritize food for his armed forces.

And him possibly being "better" than others: did he EARN his position? Is running a country as personal property w/in the teachings of true communism?

Oh, I can go on...

[joea]

SubSerpent, yes in general I believe every country should choose the system it wants. I am also leary of states comdemning other states for what they do in their borders, seems to be a case of wolves scolding wolves if you know what I mean. Still, first of all I think individuals and NGOs (like Amnesty International) have every right to comment on and condemn what goes on in their country or others, better that they have information though, not from Fox news please. My point about more people fleeing communist states to come to the West than the opposite still stands though, I noticed you did not respond to that. ;)

I disagree that North Korea is not a threat, to South Korea first of all (obviously not the USA)...after all the North did try to reunify the two Koreas by force and has been behind a lot of provocations since the ceasefire in 1953. Again, look at how vibrant and active South Korea is...they went through some nasty periods under dictators as well. North Korea would only gain from letting the South help them.

Oh I never have and never will use the ignore function, if I don't like someone I just don't respond.

[DanCanovas]

SubSerpent what is wrong with you? I was kind of agreeing with you but taking the side of North Korea is a bit wacko wouldn't you think? Hell if you think their system is so great just answer this question:

Why does South Korea have such a bigger population than the North? How many passed from north to South as opposed to the opposite? In fact, why the heck did so many more people try (and in some cases succeed others not) to cross from East to West Germany and not the opposite?

Nothing is wrong with me. I see nothing wrong with another nation to be able to practice or do what they want to do so long as it doesn't commit to doing it to another nation. What's wrong with that?

I'm not stating the Kim Jong il is my friend or that I worship him or the ground he and his father walked on. Fact is, I know nothing about Kim Jong il and niether do you or any of the rest of us on this forum. The man is a recluse. He is hardly ever seen in public and chooses to live a quiet lifestyle. It is reported that he is a fan of movies and that he likes to make his own. That's about all anyone knows of him.

The non-communistic world would lead you to believe the man is like some form of Dr. Evil or something. Where's the proof? Has he demanded $100 Billion dollars or he will destroy Earth with laser beams from outerspace? No, he hasn't!

Non-communistic society would like you to believe that little green men live on Mars and mean to do us harm. Come on and get real! I really think Micheal Moore was onto something in his 9-11 movie. He stated that Bush's administration created fear into the hearts and minds of the US people with their whole green yellow orange red color scheme. It will never be at green and this makes you afraid. It is a scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers. Of course the only answers that you will get is from the Bush administration that further state that you should be afraid and live in fear. This only empowers them even more.

I really think some of you are scared of your own shadows sometimes. :lol:

Look out! There's a terrorist behind you! No. I'm serious!



They fall for it every time. Just like taking candy from a baby!

:rotfl:


no but we know he starves his own people while constructing nuclear weapons. IF you have have no care for humanity then I can see your point, leave him be. But if you do care for humanity then you have to dislike the freak.

[SubSerpent]

SubSerpent what is wrong with you? I was kind of agreeing with you but taking the side of North Korea is a bit wacko wouldn't you think? Hell if you think their system is so great just answer this question:

Why does South Korea have such a bigger population than the North? How many passed from north to South as opposed to the opposite? In fact, why the heck did so many more people try (and in some cases succeed others not) to cross from East to West Germany and not the opposite?

Nothing is wrong with me. I see nothing wrong with another nation to be able to practice or do what they want to do so long as it doesn't commit to doing it to another nation. What's wrong with that?

I'm not stating the Kim Jong il is my friend or that I worship him or the ground he and his father walked on. Fact is, I know nothing about Kim Jong il and niether do you or any of the rest of us on this forum. The man is a recluse. He is hardly ever seen in public and chooses to live a quiet lifestyle. It is reported that he is a fan of movies and that he likes to make his own. That's about all anyone knows of him.

The non-communistic world would lead you to believe the man is like some form of Dr. Evil or something. Where's the proof? Has he demanded $100 Billion dollars or he will destroy Earth with laser beams from outerspace? No, he hasn't!

Non-communistic society would like you to believe that little green men live on Mars and mean to do us harm. Come on and get real! I really think Micheal Moore was onto something in his 9-11 movie. He stated that Bush's administration created fear into the hearts and minds of the US people with their whole green yellow orange red color scheme. It will never be at green and this makes you afraid. It is a scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers. Of course the only answers that you will get is from the Bush administration that further state that you should be afraid and live in fear. This only empowers them even more.

I really think some of you are scared of your own shadows sometimes. :lol:

Look out! There's a terrorist behind you! No. I'm serious!



They fall for it every time. Just like taking candy from a baby!

:rotfl:


no but we know he starves his own people while constructing nuclear weapons. If you have have no care for humanity then I can see your point, leave him be. But if you do care for humanity then you have to dislike the freak.

I care about humanity, but at the same time I don't see how N. Korea is really our concern. I say, cutt ties with Japan and let them deal with N.Korea. That goes for China as well.

I am more of a believer that if you don't step on my toes I won't kick you in the shins....If you do step on my toes, prepare to walk funny the rest of your life.

This means that I think the middle east should be dealing with their own problems

This means that the asians in the south pacific region should be dealing with their own. If N.Korea is ever foolish enough to lauch first, then I say go all out on them. For every 1 nuke they have, we have a 1000 or more, so it would be complete suicide for them to even consider launching nukes at us.

Kim Jong Il may be starving his people to death and things may be bad for them. So why don't THEY do something about it? I think its HIGH time that THOSE people stand up and take control of their futures and quit waiting from some miracle nation to come along and win control for them.

[Iceman]

Everything done on thje planet effects everyone else don't you see that.To sit idly by as others prepare to commit atrocites is unaccpetable. I understand your pov but you need to try to see, that to sit back with the "Wait and see approach" is folly.After the nukes fly it will be too late....after Iran has launched a nuke at Israel it is too late.I am not saying, nor promote pre-emptive strikes, "Unless" the potential striker has professed time and time again of there intentions twords one of it's neighbors.To me they are like a child that Must be removed on behalf the rest of humanity who doesn't want to particularly die today...and for the rest of the world to sit back and not join in unity behind a country trying to preserve life then they cannot ,or have anyplace to speak angainst a country trying to secrure life,liberty,freedom.Whether or not a country wants these things is not the point the point is to have a planet left for our children.You either fight for what you have or it will be taken.Ergo the mess we have everyone fighting for what they think is right.

You decide though SubSerpent....is telling your neighbor that you would wipe them off the map if you had the chance correct?...and if so then why would you be surprised when the same is done to you before you can do what you said you would?

I know this was about Korea but it matters not, whovever the aggrerssor is the same is true.

[SubSerpent]

Everything done on thje planet effects everyone else don't you see that.To sit idly by as others prepare to commit atrocites is unaccpetable. I understand your pov but you need to try to see, that to sit back with the "Wait and see approach" is folly.After the nukes fly it will be too late....after Iran has launched a nuke at Israel it is too late.I am not saying, nor promote pre-emptive strikes, "Unless" the potential striker has professed time and time again of there intentions twords one of it's neighbors.To me they are like a child that Must be removed on behalf the rest of humanity who doesn't want to particularly die today...and for the rest of the world to sit back and not join in unity behind a country trying to preserve life then they cannot ,or have anyplace to speak angainst a country trying to secrure life,liberty,freedom.Whether or not a country wants these things is not the point the point is to have a planet left for our children.You either fight for what you have or it will be taken.Ergo the mess we have everyone fighting for what they think is right.

You decide though SubSerpent....is telling your neighbor that you would wipe them off the map if you had the chance correct?...and if so then why would you be surprised when the same is done to you before you can do what you said you would?

I know this was about Korea but it matters not, whovever the aggrerssor is the same is true.


I'm not sure I'm following you here so I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for?

The first sentence isn't for me to decide. I am just a pawn in the scheme of the world so I don't see how it's my decision to make. My opinion is another thing altogether and it doesn't count for much either in the world scheme.

No I don't believe someone should wipe their neighbor off the map.

I'm not worried that anyone in this world is planning to, or crazy enough to use nuclear warfare. Even the craziest of the crazy people would know that this would just end them as well.

I HIGHLY doubt Kim Jong iL would use them on anyone, even his most hated foe, Japan.

He is just mad (as well as he should be) that the world keeps telling him, "NO. You can't do that and you can't do this". It's his country to run the way he see fit IMHO. If the people of N.Korea feel so oppressed by his rule THEY need to rise up and take it from him, not the US or any other nation.

It would be impossible for them to fail. What are Kim Jong iL and his loyalist going to do, kill EVERYONE of them? He's not that stupid. He knows that the more people he kills off of his own the less powerful he becomes to the world. If he killed them all off, N.Korea would just have 1 person living in it and that would be Kim Jong iL. Then he would have no country to run or rule and the south would easily march up North and claim the extra land.

I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes. It would be impossible in a post 9/11 world for them to get away with it and set it up to look like Russia or china did it for instance. We in the US would know for sure who it was and then it would be BYE BYE time for all of the middle east, because the US WOULD go all out crazy and nuke the whole damn world for just 1 nuke going off in our country.

This wouldn't even work out for their cause and just mean the death of themselves and their families as well. Nobody wants to die in this world unless they are suicidal. The terrorist aren't suicidal. If they were, they would just turn their AKs around and put them in their mouths and pull the trigger.

Yes, they use suicidal tatics to their advantage but so did Japan in the 2nd world war and Japan didn't want to destroy the existence of life on Earth. Japan had world take over on its mind and so do the terrorist. They don't want to end ALL life.

[Iceman]

Everything done on thje planet effects everyone else don't you see that.To sit idly by as others prepare to commit atrocites is unaccpetable. I understand your pov but you need to try to see, that to sit back with the "Wait and see approach" is folly.After the nukes fly it will be too late....after Iran has launched a nuke at Israel it is too late.I am not saying, nor promote pre-emptive strikes, "Unless" the potential striker has professed time and time again of there intentions twords one of it's neighbors.To me they are like a child that Must be removed on behalf the rest of humanity who doesn't want to particularly die today...and for the rest of the world to sit back and not join in unity behind a country trying to preserve life then they cannot ,or have anyplace to speak angainst a country trying to secrure life,liberty,freedom.Whether or not a country wants these things is not the point the point is to have a planet left for our children.You either fight for what you have or it will be taken.Ergo the mess we have everyone fighting for what they think is right.

You decide though SubSerpent....is telling your neighbor that you would wipe them off the map if you had the chance correct?...and if so then why would you be surprised when the same is done to you before you can do what you said you would?

I know this was about Korea but it matters not, whovever the aggrerssor is the same is true.


I'm not sure I'm following you here so I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for?

The first sentence isn't for me to decide. I am just a pawn in the scheme of the world so I don't see how it's my decision to make. My opinion is another thing altogether and it doesn't count for much either in the world scheme.

No I don't believe someone should wipe their neighbor off the map.

I'm not worried that anyone in this world is planning to, or crazy enough to use nuclear warfare. Even the craziest of the crazy people would know that this would just end them as well.

I HIGHLY doubt Kim Jong iL would use them on anyone, even his most hated foe, Japan.

He is just mad (as well as he should be) that the world keeps telling him, "NO. You can't do that and you can't do this". It's his country to run the way he see fit IMHO. If the people of N.Korea feel so oppressed by his rule THEY need to rise up and take it from him, not the US or any other nation.

It would be impossible for them to fail. What are Kim Jong iL and his loyalist going to do, kill EVERYONE of them? He's not that stupid. He knows that the more people he kills off of his own the less powerful he becomes to the world. If he killed them all off, N.Korea would just have 1 person living in it and that would be Kim Jong iL. Then he would have no country to run or rule and the south would easily march up North and claim the extra land.

I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes. It would be impossible in a post 9/11 world for them to get away with it and set it up to look like Russia or china did it for instance. We in the US would know for sure who it was and then it would be BYE BYE time for all of the middle east, because the US WOULD go all out crazy and nuke the whole damn world for just 1 nuke going off in our country.

This wouldn't even work out for their cause and just mean the death of themselves and their families as well. Nobody wants to die in this world unless they are suicidal. The terrorist aren't suicidal. If they were, they would just turn their AKs around and put them in their mouths and pull the trigger.

Yes, they use suicidal tatics to their advantage but so did Japan in the 2nd world war and Japan didn't want to destroy the existence of life on Earth. Japan had world take over on its mind and so do the terrorist. They don't want to end ALL life.

I appreciate your response.

If it isn't for you to decide who's is it?...

"I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes."

This is a gamble that you are willing to take...I am not....and it is my duty and obligation to my children,my friends here and in Israel or in Tim-Buck-TOO to make sure threats like these are addressed and setteled.

Again thk u for your respone.

[Happy Times]

US 'cannot allow' nuclear N Korea

The US will not accept a North Korea armed with nuclear weapons, a top US envoy has said, days after Pyongyang announced plans for a nuclear test.

North Korea must choose either to have a future or to have nuclear weapons "but it cannot have them both", top US negotiator Christopher Hill said.

He did not specify how the US would respond if a nuclear test took place.

The US wants allies to present a common front against the test plans, but talks at the UN have been inconclusive.

"At this stage, there's division," said the US envoy to the UN, John Bolton.



However, state department spokesman Tom Casey said the US hoped to see "some action there in the near future".

Russia and South Korea have said that North Korea's plans to conduct a nuclear test are unacceptable.

Their foreign ministers, Sergei Lavrov and Ban Ki-moon, agreed in a telephone conversation that a test would only aggravate the situation, Russia said.

The new Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, is to visit China and South Korea in the next few days.

Diplomatic drive

Mr Hill, Washington's top envoy at stalled six-party talks with North Korea, said the US was rallying its allies in a diplomatic push against Pyongyang.

"I am not prepared at this point to say what we are going to do but I am prepared to say we are not going to wait for a nuclear North Korea, we are not going to accept it," he said.

South Koreans gaze into the North through binoculars on the border
The true extent of the North's nuclear programme is unknown

He said North Korea had reached "a very important fork in the road - it can have a future or it can have these [nuclear] weapons but it cannot have them both".

Mr Hill said the message had been conveyed to Pyongyang's envoy at the UN but had yet to elicit a response.

Mr Hill, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have been in touch with their counterparts in Asia and Europe over the North Korea's planned nuclear test.

They want to send "a strong and unified signal... that these kinds of threats are certainly not acceptable", a state department spokesman said.

Mr Hill has had nuclear talks with North Korea in the past while Mr Burns plays a key role in America's diplomatic efforts to combat Iran's nuclear programme.

Sanctions

China has appealed for calm saying it hopes North Korea will "exercise the necessary calm and restraint".

It says the issue should be handled in a revival of six-nation talks.



North Korea announced its plans for a nuclear bomb test on Tuesday, saying it would boost security in the face of US hostility.

It is thought to have developed a handful of warheads but never before announced it would test one.

US and South Korean reports suggest the North has at least one underground test site.

The North appears increasingly angry at sanctions imposed by the US and other countries on North Korean businesses accused of arms sales and illegal activities.

In 2002, it restarted its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon and forced two UN nuclear monitors to leave the country. It is unclear how far work has progressed at the plant since then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5408246.stm

[SubSerpent]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then.

[Happy Times]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then. If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.

[SubSerpent]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then. If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.

Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?

[August]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then. If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.
Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?

:roll: You two must realize that the more countries and groups that have nuclear weapons the more likely that someone will eventually pop one or fifty off right?

[SubSerpent]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then. If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.
Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?

:roll: You two must realize that the more countries and groups that have nuclear weapons the more likely that someone will eventually pop one or fifty off right?

I disagree! I don't think that there is a person in this whole world that would EVER be crazy enough to use them. For starts, the people under the government of that country would most likely take over their government for even thinking about doing something so nuts, secondly no government would be crazy enough to even consider using them in the first place against another nation that has them.

I think most of these smaller countries like N. Korea want them for self protection. They fear that if they are ever attacked or taken over by a larger nation (like the US) that their whole world would have come to an end. If they have nukes then no country would ever be foolish enough to attack them to begin with.

Look at the US and China for example. China has nukes and USA has nukes. We are both afraid of each other because of this and therefore there will NEVER be a fight between us, NEVER!

If one nation doesn't have nukes and the other one does, there is a MUCH GREATER chance of war happening between them.

It's just like fighting. You wouldn't get in a fight with someone you knew could stomp your a-- into the ground. You'd find a way to avoid it. If you knew you could beat them to a bloody pulp then you would!

[August]

I disagree! I don't think that there is a person in this whole world that would EVER be crazy enough to use them. For starts, the people under the government of that country would most likely take over their government for even thinking about doing something so nuts, secondly no government would be crazy enough to even consider using them in the first place against another nation that has them.

It'd be nice if you were right but I don't have any faith in that theory at all.

First off, if you look hard enough you can find someone willing to do anything, including being willing to destroy the planet in a global thermonuclear war.

Secondly, in a country like North Korea the nation goes to war on just one mans say so. No congressional oversight here, Kim would have no problem getting his military to fire a nuke in anger if he wanted it. As for his people, they would never even know about it until afterwards and even then only if the government told them. This is a country where the peoples news and information is 100% state controlled.

And lastly, a nuke can be covertly delivered to its target as easily as it can by missle or bomber. The Chinese, the USA and the Russians may have enough nukes between us to wipe out the entire planet a hundred times over but if we don't know who sent it, how could we respond?

Look at the US and China for example. China has nukes and USA has nukes. We are both afraid of each other because of this and therefore there will NEVER be a fight between us, NEVER!

Bull. India and Pakistan, both nuclear armed nations, have gone to war several times and managed to keep it conventional, the US and China have fought a war too.

But Mao certainly could have ordered a nuclear strike if he chose to, and so could have Stalin, and their orders would have been obeyed without question. You seriously underestimate the power of an entrenched dictatorship. Troops march, ships sail and bombs go off on the word of one man and if that man is insane he is capable of anything.

It's just like fighting. You wouldn't get in a fight with someone you knew could stomp your a-- into the ground. You'd find a way to avoid it. If you knew you could beat them to a bloody pulp then you would!

Again Bull. The nuclear armed might of the United States is capable of instantly vaporizing every muslim country on the planetbut that didn't stop Al Quaeda from attacking us on 9-11, nor would our western social values, which they don't share stop them from using a nuke if North Korea or someone else gave it to them.

[Yahoshua]

Had Germany acquired the bomb they would've used it. Had Japan acquired the bomb, they would've used it against the United States.

Had Germany held out longer than the Japanese, refusing to surrender, we would've bombed Germany as well. Nuclear weapons were nearly used against the United States in the Cuban missile crises.

That nutjob in Iran, equal to the terrorists in Iraq, would be willing to annihilate the arabs near Israel in order to wipe Israel off the map.

Communists have no morals, why should they care whom they hurt, maim, injure and kill. Arabs justify murdering their own brethren by claiming that the deaths of the shachids (martyrs) would give the "collateral damage" a free-ticket to paradise, and the victims would get the same ride.

People are capable of the most gruesome atrocities because they become desensitized to it. If a Waffen SS trooper or an NKVD agent can slit the throats of women, smash children against rail cars, torture, drown, and ultimately kill those who are defenseless with their own hands, how much more difficult is it to achieve the same end with the press of a button?

Not difficult at all.

=========================================

August, are you referring to the "Silent Wars" b/w China and the U.S. as being that of the armed conflicts in Korea and Vietnam?

Curious here.

[August]

August, are you referring to the "Silent Wars" b/w China and the U.S. as being that of the armed conflicts in Korea and Vietnam.

Korea, but there was nothing silent about 270,000 Chinese troops attacking across the Yalu river.

[Yahoshua]

"Silent" being that we never actively declared war on the Chinese but were involved in battle with them.

[Bort]

It is precisely this sort of situation that formed one of the cornerstones of my argument not to have invaded Iraq. North Korea is a far more dangerous state than Iraq ever was, and now has the bomb and a possible means of using against the USA. If we had not gone into Iraq, we could mobilize a massive military response, similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis, reinforcing our forces in South Korea by at least an additional division, preferably several, in addition to multiple CVBG's and additional Air Force Wings from the US in order to show that we will not tolerate a nuclear test. Instead we are handcuffed to idle and noncommittal threats by a lack of deployable forces.:damn: The North Koreans tend to be very dense when negotiating, but they do understand force-look no further than Operation Paul Bunyan (http://www.f-106deltadart.com/Korea-DMZ/axe_murders.htm) for proof.

[August]

* Bort']It is precisely this sort of situation that formed one of the cornerstones of my argument not to have invaded Iraq. North Korea is a far more dangerous state than Iraq ever was, and now has the bomb and a possible means of using against the USA. If we had not gone into Iraq, we could mobilize a massive military response, similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis, reinforcing our forces in South Korea by at least an additional division, preferably several, in addition to multiple CVBG's and additional Air Force Wings from the US in order to show that we will not tolerate a nuclear test. Instead we are handcuffed to idle and noncommittal threats by a lack of deployable forces.:damn: The North Koreans tend to be very dense when negotiating, but they do understand force-look no further than Operation Paul Bunyan (http://www.f-106deltadart.com/Korea-DMZ/axe_murders.htm) for proof.

You have to remember that NK is in Chinas sphere of influence. Anything we do to them risks Chinese intervention in support of NK. Besides, stationing more troops in South Korea only puts them squarely in the NK nuclear bullseye.

[Bort]

You have to remember that NK is in Chinas sphere of influence. Anything we do to them risks Chinese intervention in support of NK. Besides, stationing more troops in South Korea only puts them squarely in the NK nuclear bullseye.

China in the early 1950's was a very different country than it is today. In the event of a war between North Korea and UN forces today, I really doubt that China would interfere against the US and its allies. And about the "nuclear bullseye", does that mean that we should just leave S. Korea- Oh my gosh, we might be in danger! Lets get out of there! How about Japan, that's in the 'nuclear bullseye" too! I guess we should just let North Korea be then... Gee, I would have loved to have seen your strategy for the Cold War!

[Konovalov]

My concern is that if North Korea does conduct an underground nuclear test then that could be the catalyst for an even greater arms race down in my home countries neck of the woods along with greater instability within South East Asia. What will Japan's response be? With the ever growing nationalism there along with a new Prime Minister who is more of a nationalist than Junichiro Koizumi ever was. Will they change their pacifist constitution? The question even arose in Japan's parliament yesterday if launching a pre-emptive attack was within the Japanese constitution. These are troubling times.

[Happy Times]

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then. If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.
Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?
:roll: You two must realize that the more countries and groups that have nuclear weapons the more likely that someone will eventually pop one or fifty off right? Who will guarantee 100% that they will come and fight or strike back for Finland if we are invaded or attacked by nuclear weapons? Would you?

[fredbass]

It is a serious threat when certain countries like N. Korea and Iran acquire the capability to use Nuclear Weapons. It's not something that will be taken lightly by the U.S. and I'm sure that at some point in time those threats will be eliminated, so don't worry folks.

[August]

* Bort']China in the early 1950's was a very different country than it is today. In the event of a war between North Korea and UN forces today, I really doubt that China would interfere against the US and its allies.

Well thank you very much General MacArthur, for that detailed analysis of Chinese intentions. You know he said the very same thing in 1950 and it got a lot of our people killed, not to mention causing the longest retreat in American Military history so please spare me the sarcasm.

And about the "nuclear bullseye", does that mean that we should just leave S. Korea- Oh my gosh, we might be in danger! Lets get out of there! How about Japan, that's in the 'nuclear bullseye" too! I guess we should just let North Korea be then... Gee, I would have loved to have seen your strategy for the Cold War!

And what purpose would it serve to put more troops in Korea General? You think the South Koreans are going to allow this? We have trouble keeping the troops we have there already, let alone adding an invasion force, and that's exactly what it would be seen as.

[August]

Who will guarantee 100% that they will come and fight or strike back for Finland if we are invaded or attacked by nuclear weapons? Would you?

Do you seriously think the one or three nukes Finland might be able to build/obtain would keep the Russians from obliterating your country if they had a mind to do so? It might make you feel better to have them but that's all they would be good for.

Besides, it wouldn't be Finland I would worry about. Your premise was that all nations should have nukes. You do not see the danger in a country like Iran or Chad or Somalia or Venezuela or Chechnia having nukes at their disposal?

[The Noob]

SubSerpent can rant away all he wants from now on, I just included him in my ignore list, thus, I will never see his posts again, never. RANT ON!:arrgh!:

Very well, if you haven't included me into your Fancy "Bush-Censor-This-Please-it's-questioning-my-deals-and-is-Anti-America" list jet, then do so.

Just include everyone into your list wich is no american republican, then you can have it here just like at home, with America **** Yeah attitude and Anti America threads blocked so you can't see them. This is so Crazy! You were correct, Bush doesn't censor anything, you censor it yourself. :rotfl:

SubSerpent, i agree with all your posts about this N Korea Subject. :up:

[Happy Times]

Who will guarantee 100% that they will come and fight or strike back for Finland if we are invaded or attacked by nuclear weapons? Would you?
Do you seriously think the one or three nukes Finland might be able to build/obtain would keep the Russians from obliterating your country if they had a mind to do so? It might make you feel better to have them but that's all they would be good for.

Besides, it wouldn't be Finland I would worry about. Your premise was that all nations should have nukes. You do not see the danger in a country like Iran or Chad or Somalia or Venezuela or Chechnia having nukes at their disposal? Nothing technically prevents us making 50, 100, 200 or more. It seems Iran is allowed to build theirs and N-Korea allready might have one. It seems you cant stop them. The only country from your list that could maybe produce them is Venetzuela. Question remains, who will gurantee Finlands sovereignty 100%? It seems were heading in to large wars and theres nothing we can do about it.

[Oberon]

I think that saying that the US cannot allow a nuclear DPRK is a bit late, it already has, the DPRK has at least one nuke, Iran will probably have one shortly, if it hasn't already. So the time of debating on whether we should let them have nuclear weapons is past, now we should be focusing on what we should do now that they have nuclear weapons. Rather than pumping money into mini-nukes and bunker busters, the west should be focusing on ABM strategies, and planning on putting those strategies into place in countries like South Korea and Japan, after all, there's no point in having a nuclear missile if it's not going to reach its target. Once they've launched their compliment of nukes, thus giving away the launch sites and storage areas if we don't know them already, and the nukes are intercepted and destroyed...then it's time to strike back, and then there'll be a perfectly solid reason that no nation can argue against intervention.

[SubSerpent]

Well, one things for sure. If the US or any other nation attacks N.Korea anytime now, you can gurantee that they will use the nukes on the basis of provocation. I say, "Leave them the hell alone" and learn to live with it. It's too late now to go barking up that tree and to do so will mean nuclear war. If we the US attack in a conventional manner it will mean nothing to N.Korea and they will use nukes on the US, Japan, and S.Korea. Any use of nukes from the US on N.Korea spins us into a nuclear war with communist China.

It would be COMPLETELY foolish now to go to war with N.Korea.

There is nothing the US can do to N.Korea now accept to learn to live with them. US is just worried that N.Korea is going to use this new power to gain bargining chips for higher level world politics and for free food.

I think China will keep N.Korea in line, since all the US has to really do is tell china if they don't put their little dog on his leash than we aren't going to buy any more "Nikes" from them. China can't afford this and China (even though they are communist) are trying hard to play the game with a clean nose with the world. They want to be liked and they aren't going to let little 3rd world countries like N.Korea ruin it for them.

[Happy Times]

US spy satellites detect N Korea's nuclear moves

By Colin Joyce in Tokyo and Richard Spencer in Beijing
(Filed: 05/10/2006)

The United States has detected activity in North Korea indicating possible preparations for an underground nuclear test.

Spy satellites have picked up unusual movement of vehicles at potential test sites, although an American official said it did prove that a test was imminent.


The images were seen the day after North Korea said it would conduct its first test, a prospect which Russia, South Korea and Japan yesterday described as "unacceptable".

The issue is expected to dominate a trip by Japan's new prime minister, Shinzo Abe, to China and South Korea to mend deeply damaged relations.

Mr Abe will meet the Chinese president, Hu Jintao, on Sunday and South Korea's President Roh Moo-hyun the following day.

The countries refused to meet Japan's previous leader, Junichiro Koizumi, because of his visits to Yasukuni Shrine, which many say glorifies Japanese aggression in the Second World War.

The Beijing visit, the first by a Japanese prime minister since 2001, had been predicted but China refused to confirm it until yesterday. It has set a tough but simple test for Mr Abe, saying that good relations depended on visits to the shrine being stopped.

Mr Abe has declined to say whether he will visit Yasukuni as prime minister, though he has done so in the past. The summit announcement indicates that some agreement has been reached.

There has been speculation in China that Mr Abe will continue to visit the shrine but in secret. The flamboyant way in which Mr Koizumi paid his respects, often dressed in full Shinto regalia, caused particular offence in Beijing.

The summits became more urgent after North Korea's announcement about its test.

The Japanese are increasingly concerned by the perceived threat from the isolated Stalinist nation.

Mr Abe said yesterday that Japan "simply could not accept" a North Korean nuclear test and Japan has already imposed sanctions on Pyongyang. But analysts believe that Mr Abe will face a tough task in convincing Beijing and Seoul to take a stronger line.

Both countries have adopted a conciliatory approach, though Seoul said a test could cause a "shift" in its policy of engagement.

China balanced its call for North Korea to show restraint with warnings that "all relevant parties", meaning America, should "address their concerns through dialogues and consultations instead of taking actions that may intensify the situation".

China's ambassador to the United Nations said it was opposed to action by the UN Security Council against North Korea and said the issue should be discussed in the long-running "six-party talks" between the two Koreas, America, China, Russia and Japan. North Korea has refused to join those talks for a year in protest at American sanctions.

It is not clear whether North Korea has the ability to carry through its test in the near future, though analysts say that the statement suggests that a political decision has been taken and that America's freezing of North Korean bank accounts has strengthened the hand of hard-liners.

But many sense that an end-game is approaching, either to allow Pyongyang to become a nuclear power or to see an escalation of military tensions. Pak Myong-guk, a North Korean diplomat in Australia, said: "The situation around the Korean peninsula is very tense. It may be breaking out [into] a war at any time." Yu Myung-hwan, the South Korean vice-foreign minister, said a test could prompt Japan to develop its own nuclear weapons.

Some members of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party have supported this option, once considered unthinkable for Japan. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/05/wkorea05.xml

[Happy Times]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHfsKO0bh4&search=North%20Korea%20South%20Korean%20DMZ%20Kim% 20Jong%20Il%20nuclear%20dictator%20war%20NK%20miss ile%20UN%20regime%20Dear%20Leader%20Cold%20propaga nda :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Fish]

SubSerpent what is wrong with you? I was kind of agreeing with you but taking the side of North Korea is a bit wacko wouldn't you think? Hell if you think their system is so great just answer this question:

Why does South Korea have such a bigger population than the North? How many passed from north to South as opposed to the opposite? In fact, why the heck did so many more people try (and in some cases succeed others not) to cross from East to West Germany and not the opposite?

Nothing is wrong with me. I see nothing wrong with another nation to be able to practice or do what they want to do so long as it doesn't commit to doing it to another nation. What's wrong with that?

I'm not stating the Kim Jong il is my friend or that I worship him or the ground he and his father walked on. Fact is, I know nothing about Kim Jong il and niether do you or any of the rest of us on this forum. The man is a recluse. He is hardly ever seen in public and chooses to live a quiet lifestyle. It is reported that he is a fan of movies and that he likes to make his own. That's about all anyone knows of him.

The non-communistic world would lead you to believe the man is like some form of Dr. Evil or something. Where's the proof? Has he demanded $100 Billion dollars or he will destroy Earth with laser beams from outerspace? No, he hasn't!

Non-communistic society would like you to believe that little green men live on Mars and mean to do us harm. Come on and get real! I really think Micheal Moore was onto something in his 9-11 movie. He stated that Bush's administration created fear into the hearts and minds of the US people with their whole green yellow orange red color scheme. It will never be at green and this makes you afraid. It is a scientific fact that fear causes people to become weak and to look for answers. Of course the only answers that you will get is from the Bush administration that further state that you should be afraid and live in fear. This only empowers them even more.

I really think some of you are scared of your own shadows sometimes. :lol:

Look out! There's a terrorist behind you! No. I'm serious!



They fall for it every time. Just like taking candy from a baby!

:rotfl:


no but we know he starves his own people while constructing nuclear weapons. If you have have no care for humanity then I can see your point, leave him be. But if you do care for humanity then you have to dislike the freak.

I care about humanity, but at the same time I don't see how N. Korea is really our concern. I say, cutt ties with Japan and let them deal with N.Korea. That goes for China as well.

I am more of a believer that if you don't step on my toes I won't kick you in the shins....If you do step on my toes, prepare to walk funny the rest of your life.

This means that I think the middle east should be dealing with their own problems

This means that the asians in the south pacific region should be dealing with their own. If N.Korea is ever foolish enough to lauch first, then I say go all out on them. For every 1 nuke they have, we have a 1000 or more, so it would be complete suicide for them to even consider launching nukes at us.

Kim Jong Il may be starving his people to death and things may be bad for them. So why don't THEY do something about it? I think its HIGH time that THOSE people stand up and take control of their futures and quit waiting from some miracle nation to come along and win control for them.

As they did in Roemenië. :up:

[Oberon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHfsKO0bh4&search=North%20Korea%20South%20Korean%20DMZ%20Kim% 20Jong%20Il%20nuclear%20dictator%20war%20NK%20miss ile%20UN%20regime%20Dear%20Leader%20Cold%20propaga nda :rotfl: :rotfl:


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Brilliant!!

[fredbass]

Actually there are many options available to the U.S. and our allies. And one of them certainly would be to hit them first with precision bombs preventing them from responding with nukes. And just because we make a specific strike does not necessarily mean a War will take place. Actually I believe if we strike first that N. Korea will come to its knees and realize that they'd better straighten up or things will will only get worse for them.

So I say "ATTACK". :ping: :know:

[Oberon]

Or alternatively, they'll take that move as acceptance of their own flawed view of the decadent west enforcing their will on the world. China is likely to agree with that and side with the DPRK, possibly encouraging and aiding the reconstruction of their nuclear program, and the ROK won't be happy either at the fear of an escalation or invasion from the DPRK as retaliation for an attack. I think the happiest nation after a surgical strike on DPRK nuclear assets would be Japan, as there's no way the DPRK can strike Japan other than via nuke.

[Tchocky]

The DPRK's weapons program accelerated after the "Bush Doctrine" was announced. Every test so far has been a cry for attention, this one will be the same.

For the US to say they wont allow a nuclear NK is ridiculous grandstanding. Hold on while I prepare statements concerning absent horses and stable doors

[SubSerpent]

Actually there are many options available to the U.S. and our allies. And one of them certainly would be to hit them first with precision bombs preventing them from responding with nukes. And just because we make a specific strike does not necessarily mean a War will take place. Actually I believe if we strike first that N. Korea will come to its knees and realize that they'd better straighten up or things will will only get worse for them.

So I say "ATTACK". :ping: :know:


Yeah, then what? China is watching us very closely if we attack one of its allies. A strike on N.Korea will only lead to war with communist China. Smart move!:down: NOT!

[August]

"Silent" being that we never actively declared war on the Chinese but were involved in battle with them.

Ah. Well I guess by that standard nearly all modern wars are silent.

[August]

Actually there are many options available to the U.S. and our allies. And one of them certainly would be to hit them first with precision bombs preventing them from responding with nukes. And just because we make a specific strike does not necessarily mean a War will take place. Actually I believe if we strike first that N. Korea will come to its knees and realize that they'd better straighten up or things will will only get worse for them.

So I say "ATTACK". :ping: :know:

Yeah, then what? China is watching us very closely if we attack one of its allies. A strike on N.Korea will only lead to war with communist China. Smart move!:down: NOT!

You could be right and i seriously doubt that the US would ever do what Fred is suggesting unless it was with Chinas blessing. Of course if Jong Il becomes too bothersome China just might give the green light secretly or even take care of it themselves. I don't think conventional airstrikes will do the job though no matter who does it.

[Yahoshua]

Well, I disagree in this case.

Conventional weapons would do the job.......if you wanted to commit the amount of resources required to empty your reserves that is.

[Oberon]

Indeed, and the US can't really face a conflict in Korea until its managed to pull itself out of the quagmire that is Iraq, and it can't do that without attracting international condemnation (again) without stabilising the situation in the country, and it can't do that without neutralising the insurgents, and it can't do that without more resources...

So...we've got a little while to wait yet....

[fredbass]

Maybe a secret Strike without Officially revealing who did it. :know:

(Don't look at me, I didn't do it :) )

And I really don't think China would intervene, not just for a preemptive strike.

[Oberon]

Maybe a secret Strike without Officially revealing who did it. :know:

Risky...on both approaches:

If it works, then you run the risk that the DPRK will blame the attack on the ROK and hit the DMZ running.

If it doesn't work, then the DPRK will find out that it was the US that made the strike, and all diplomatic **** will hit the fan.

Best case scenario is that it works, and in its embarrisement the DPRK covers up the incident.

IMHO, one of the best ways to break the DPRK is encourage a revolution against Kim, but considering some of the majorly fanatical support that he has from some quarters (mainly those who benefit from his regime), it won't be an easy task.

[fredbass]

I'll agree it's risky and debatable. One has to look at all alternatives. What happens if we don't. Is it really wise to let countries like N. Korea have them. I think not. IMO

[Oberon]

Indeed, and I'm not saying that they should, a nuclear NK is a bad idea....but, so's a nuclear China, a nuclear Pakistan, a nuclear Russia...all of these countries are not very warm with the US, and Iran will probably have nukes shortly.
In addition, if you attack NK...even if you were to take out all of its nukes (which is a steep prospect considering that chances are that they have two sites we don't know about to every site we do), you still have a country that is capable of creating severe problems for its neighbours. You kick a tiger up the rear end, it's going to turn around and bite you, and chances are, the dragon across the border will join in the fight, lending military aid to the DPRK. So just storming in and bombing the **** out of NK isn't going to get anyone anywhere, especially when a sizable amount of the US military is tied up in Iraq and thus unable to provide support to the ROK who would bear the brunt of any assault by the DPRK. Seoul isn't that far from the DMZ after all.

[SubSerpent]

Reminds me of a Dave Matthews Band song...

"It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, and Herr Bush feels fine!"

[NEON DEON]

Reminds me of a Dave Matthews Band song...

"It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, and Herr Bush feels fine!"

or Wizard of OZ song:

"Well I'd while away the hours,

conversing with the flowers,

if I'd only had a brain."

:ping: :ping: :ping: :ping: :ping:

[The Noob]

Reminds me of a Dave Matthews Band song...

"It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, It's the end of the world as we know it, and Herr Bush feels fine!"
or Wizard of OZ song:

"Well I'd while away the hours,

conversing with the flowers,

if I'd only had a brain."

:ping: :ping: :ping: :ping: :ping:

I'm the king of the Anti-Bush pictures.
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4906/ozat4.jpg

You can't beat me. :D

[Oberon]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5415304.stm

The DPRK ups the ante. :damn:

[SubSerpent]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5415304.stm

The DPRK ups the ante. :damn:

I'd say S. Korea upped the ante after they were the ones to fire the warning shots at N. Korea!

What is going to happen if N. Korea DOES test an underground nuclear bomb in their own country? Is this REALLY grounds for war?

I think the world has gone mad if they think that is provocation and grounds for a war with N.Korea.

That would be like N.Korea stating they are going to go to war with the US for the basis that N.America is the number one country to cause the most world polution and increases global warming nearly twice as fast as any other nation in the world. (Due largely in part to all the vehicles driven in N.America on a daily basis)

I'd say America is about the most harmful nation in the world right now based on that alone. Global warming is going to be the worlds Silent Killer! You guys think a nuke is bad, wait till you see what another Ice Age is like!

[Oberon]

ROK opened fire after DPRK troops entered the DMZ:



After intruding some 30 metres (yards), the Northern troops returned to their side of the military demarcation line, it added. One Southern military source, speaking anonymously to The Associated Press, said it was unclear whether the intrusion was "intentional or whether it was to catch fish".

I doubt this one test will be enough to spark a US led war, but it is one more step on the road towards one, I wouldn't be surprised that when the DPRK tests this nuke (there's no way it's an if) , the ROK requests that it be allowed to restart its nuclear program as a MAD defensive method, the US (of course) will say no, but ROK will do it anyway...China will probably stage some major military movements to discourage Japan who'll probably send a few more ships into the sea of Japan.
Then its back to the negociating table until Iran distracts the US again, in which case Kim will get jealous and test another Taepo.


Just looking up the possible test sites for the underground nukes, one of them looks to be very near Musudan-ri, the other looks to be north of Pyongyang, closer to the Chinese border than Pyongyang though...looking at that area in Google Earth it is possible to see an underground base...here, I'll get a screenshot:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4614/dprknuketestinghr3.jpg

It's no simple mining facility, as SAM and AAA sites are just about visible in the hillsides around the area...so it's something important, that's for sure ;)

(Third edit) Looking at it though...would you detonate a nuke there? I certainly wouldn't, look at the water sources on the mountain there...not that the DPRK would care about such things admittedly...

[SubSerpent]

ROK opened fire after DPRK troops entered the DMZ:



After intruding some 30 metres (yards), the Northern troops returned to their side of the military demarcation line, it added. One Southern military source, speaking anonymously to The Associated Press, said it was unclear whether the intrusion was "intentional or whether it was to catch fish".

I doubt this one test will be enough to spark a US led war, but it is one more step on the road towards one, I wouldn't be surprised that when the DPRK tests this nuke (there's no way it's an if) , the ROK requests that it be allowed to restart its nuclear program as a MAD defensive method, the US (of course) will say no, but ROK will do it anyway...China will probably stage some major military movements to discourage Japan who'll probably send a few more ships into the sea of Japan.
Then its back to the negociating table until Iran distracts the US again, in which case Kim will get jealous and test another Taepo.


Meanwhile,

While the world is playing war games with one another, there is a starving child collapsing down in the middle of a dusty road from exhaustion about to die without food and water. :nope:

[SkvyWvr]

ROK opened fire after DPRK troops entered the DMZ:



After intruding some 30 metres (yards), the Northern troops returned to their side of the military demarcation line, it added. One Southern military source, speaking anonymously to The Associated Press, said it was unclear whether the intrusion was "intentional or whether it was to catch fish".

I doubt this one test will be enough to spark a US led war, but it is one more step on the road towards one, I wouldn't be surprised that when the DPRK tests this nuke (there's no way it's an if) , the ROK requests that it be allowed to restart its nuclear program as a MAD defensive method, the US (of course) will say no, but ROK will do it anyway...China will probably stage some major military movements to discourage Japan who'll probably send a few more ships into the sea of Japan.
Then its back to the negociating table until Iran distracts the US again, in which case Kim will get jealous and test another Taepo.


Meanwhile,

While the world is playing war games with one another, there is a starving child collapsing down in the middle of a dusty road from exhaustion about to die without food and water. :nope:

I believe ROK can handle it. They have a tough and dedicated armed forces. Probably thre toughest i've ever seen. As for the Kid, give him an M-16 and let him feed himself. (just kidding Sub)

[ASWnut101]

Well maby that starving child should get a job so he can feed himself

[Happy Times]

Well maby that starving child should get a job so he can feed himself Critizising some goverment or culture would be more correct, not an individual child.:roll:

[ASWnut101]

well there are still some people who don't want to work, and they just soak up money that we (the employed) pay with our hard earned money. Im really speaking for the "purposely" poor.

[fredbass]

A kid can get water here in the U.S. whether he's poor or not and whether the government plays war games or not. And there's places for the poor to get help and food if they choose.





"attack N. Korea now" b4 it's too late. :ping: