For 9/11 Conspiracy nutters! This for U

[kiwi_2005]

Taken from another forum the guy who put this up is (was) so anti 9/11 a true believer in the USA govenment setup 9/11 blah blah yet this article CHANGED his views and now he realised how wrong he was. Time magazine has just published a story entitled "Why the 9/11 conspiracy theories won't go away". Apparently 1/3 of the American population has bought into various conspiracy theories (call it the X-files effect). According to psychologists, people simply need grand "DaVinci Code" like explanations for tragic events. Our minds simply can't grasp how something of this magnitude could occur, without a corresponding grand theory to explain it all. THE TRUTH.... ITS OUT THERE! :yep::arrgh!:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304-1,00.html

[SubSerpent]

I wasn't aware that there were any 9/11 nutters on here?:hmm:

I've read the article, but this is an article based on the writers "theory" of how the rest of the world is making up conspiracy theories about 9/11.

Most of us know that the planes were responsible for the damage and lives taken that day. I think the "conspiracy theory" that most of us "nutters" agree on is that the government doesn't have a good defense on this and for the fact that they knew about this PRIOR to the event and did not do a thing to try and stop it from happening. This is just as bad as doing it yourself. For instance, if I knew someone was about to be killed and did nothing to try and stop it I would be found just as guilty as the killer in a court of law.

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act. Several senior officials have stated that there was plenty of creditable evidence and reports from the CIA and NCIS and other foriegn intelligence agencies that the US was going to be hit by a terrorist act on that day by the usage of commercials planes. Why wasn't security boosted at ALL US airports that week for Christ sake? That would have been the least Bush and his administration could have done to prevent that day from ever happening. Notice how Bush was on a trip down in Florida that day and not at the Whitehouse! Maybe he didn't want to be there for a reason?

Bush reminds me of the pompas a-hole mayor of Amity Island in the Jaws movie. Notice how that A-hole wanted to keep the beaches open AFTER the shark had already killed people! It was all about making money and Bush is no different. All he cares about is his fat wallet getting ever fatter with his greed. May he rot in hell for all eternity!

[Sea Demon]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.

:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D

[Ishmael]

I don't think they planned the attack but I do believe they were aware of the very distinct possibility and ignored the plethora of warnings because a catastrophic attack suited their purposes in wanting to invade Iraq. Consider what we know:

1.The Project For a New American Century publishes an article in the mid-90's calling for an invasion of Iraq and recognizing that it will probably take "A Pearl Harbor-type event" to rally the nation for such an invasion.

2.According to Richard Clarke, the Bush transition team didn't want to hear about al-Qaeda and wanted only briefings on Iraq. At the same time, they hosted emissaries from the Taliban in order to secure an oil pipeline deal to connect the oil fields of Central Asia to the Indian subcontinent. They promote closer ties to Pakistan and their Interservices Intelligence Agency who not only financed and promoted the Taliban but also had members linked to providing money to the 9/11 hijackers.

3. As the 9 months between the inauguration and the attack unfold, Clarke's group is demoted and ignored. Meanwhile, alarm bells are sounding around the nation as FBI reports Muslim men taking flight school instructions only in flying without training in take-offs or landings. According to Woodward's new book, Condoleeza Rice as National Security Advisor is told in July by both Tenant and Negroponte that al-Qaeda is planning an attack in the US using hijacked airliners as weapons. We also have the Presidential Daily Briefing in August warning of similar attacks. All of these warnings are ignored and minimized.

4.The attacks happen and the US goes into Afghanistan. However, they use local surrogate militias under the alleigance of local warlords allowing the top al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders to escape Tora Bora into Pakistan's Northwest Frontier.

5. Taliban and al-Qaeda prisoners that are captured are tortured, providing unreliable information that is used by the Bush administration to make their case for the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld draws down troop levels from Afghanistan and prepares to invade Iraq.

6. The US goes into Iraq with the fig leaf of the Coalition of the Willing. The Army they send is enough to defeat the Iraqi Army, but not enough to secure order in the country.
They disband the Iraqi Army and send the troops home with their arms while looting breaks out. Rumsfeld dismisses the looting as normal. The Coalition Provisional Authority is organised to run Iraqi reconstruction, but the main Hiring executive, Jim O'Beirne is more interested in hiring Bush loyalists than in hiring expeienced and competent people with backgrounds in such reconstruction. Halliburton and other US corporations are given no-bid contracts. In the ensuing months, billions of dollars disappear. The companies tasked with reconstruction hire people from other third-world countries instead of Iraqis fueling the growth of the insurgency.

7. As the insurgency developsand increases, Rumsfeld and the Bush Admin. deny it is occuring. Meanwhile, US troops spend their time in an endless cycle of clearing insurgents out of towns then move on only to have the insurgents come back as US troop strength is not large enough to hold what has already been secured. Meanwhile, the Abu Ghraib Scandal breaks further fueling the insurgency. Even though evidence and photos show that the torture is authorised by the highest levels of the DOD and the Bush Admin, and that private contracors/mercenaries from Blackwater are present during the tortue sessions, no officer, contractor or civilian official is ever punished or even charged. In the ensuing Courts-martial of the reservist enlisted men tried. The General in charge of interrogations for Iraq and Guantanamo Bay invokes his 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination.

8. throughout all of this, The Republican controlled congress never has one hearing of oversight on any of these issues, essentially becoming a rubber-stamp for the administration's increasingly failed and incompetent actions and policies.

There's more I can point to, but my fingers are cramping. Is it any wonder that any reasonably intelligent person familiar with the history might think that it was an inside job?

[ASWnut101]

:nope: Sure Ishmael, we caused 9/11 to happen so bush could kill Iraqis. You apparently don't realize that OBL's plans to bring down the world trade center were around in the 1980's, when Ronald Regan was in office. then in 1993, under the Clinton administration, the first WTC attacks occured. What did Clinton do? get laid with Monica, and refused to kill OBL 3(THREE) times. then under pressure from the Monica scandal, he threw a TLAM at him, which obviously didn't work. he is more responsible for 9/11 than bush will ever be.


Now, which story sounds more crazy?

[Sea Demon]

:nope: Sure Ishmael, we caused 9/11 to happen so bush could kill Iraqis. You apparently don't realize that OBL's plans to bring down the world trade center were around in the 1980's, when Ronald Regan was in office. then in 1993, under the Clinton administration, the first WTC attacks occured. What did Clinton do? get laid with Monica, and refused to kill OBL 3(THREE) times. then under pressure from the Monica scandal, he threw a TLAM at him, which obviously didn't work. he is more responsible for 9/11 than bush will ever be.


Now, which story sounds more crazy?

No. Wait a minute. You forgot Bush invaded Iraq for the sole purpose to steal their oil and enrich his friends at halliburton. I think that's how it goes. :roll: :doh: :doh: :doh:

[ASWnut101]

Oh, yeah!

cant forget that:nope:

[kiwi_2005]

I wasn't aware that there were any 9/11 nutters on here?:hmm:



Good point. I apologise if subsimmers think im saying ya 9/11 nutters, :arrgh!: Ive never read a anti 9/11 on subsim either, i thought i would just put it up as their are anti 9/11's out there.

Maybe we can just have a good laugh at these ppl:hmm:

[ASWnut101]

Maby!:cool:

[waste gate]

Apparently 1/3 of the American population has bought into various conspiracy theories (call it the X-files effect).

These are the same people who believe Al Gore won the 2000 presidential election, and also couldn't get their vote right in the same election. Now we know.

They also believe in UFOs, the holocaust didn't happen, life begins at 60, and when all else fails punt.

[SubSerpent]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.

:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D

Of course your lopsided views have led you to admit that you and your radical ideals would do this to your fellow countrymen! You are one sick puppy Sea Demon, I've got to hand it to you! :yep:

You are probably the kid that used to burn ants alive with your dad's magnify glass. Sick sick sick! :nope:

[SubSerpent]

Apparently 1/3 of the American population has bought into various conspiracy theories (call it the X-files effect).

These are the same people who believe Al Gore won the 2000 presidential election, and also couldn't get their vote right in the same election. Now we know.

They also believe in UFOs, the holocaust didn't happen, life begins at 60, and when all else fails punt.

Just like Republicans believe in make believe WMD, the war in Iraq is a good thing, and that the 2000 election wasn't fixed by Bush and his thieving party! :nope:

[Sea Demon]

Of course your lopsided views have led you to admit that you and your radical ideals would do this to your fellow countrymen! You are one sick puppy Sea Demon, I've got to hand it to you! :yep:

You are probably the kid that used to burn ants alive with your dad's magnify glass. Sick sick sick! :nope:

No, I think most believe that insane people need hospitalization. :smug:

[SubSerpent]

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:

How old are you? 12? :yep: :roll: :doh:

[SubSerpent]

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:

How old are you? 12? :yep: :roll: :doh:

Old enough to start a war!

[Sea Demon]

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:

How old are you? 12? :yep: :roll: :doh:

Old enough to start a war!

Uh-oh. Are you frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog again? :)

[SkvyWvr]

Just like Republicans believe in make believe WMD, the war in Iraq is a good thing, and that the 2000 election wasn't fixed by Bush and his thieving party! :nope:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2479/looney500zn2.jpg

[mr chris]

Apparently 1/3 of the American population has bought into various conspiracy theories (call it the X-files effect).

These are the same people who believe Al Gore won the 2000 presidential election, and also couldn't get their vote right in the same election. Now we know.

They also believe in UFOs, the holocaust didn't happen, life begins at 60, and when all else fails punt.

Sorry mate if you look at the facts Al Gore did win the election:yep: Just lucky for Bush his daddy cronies were all sitting on the supreme court. Way to go the bush clan by disinfranshing a large slice of the popualtion.:nope:

[SkvyWvr]

Apparently 1/3 of the American population has bought into various conspiracy theories (call it the X-files effect).

These are the same people who believe Al Gore won the 2000 presidential election, and also couldn't get their vote right in the same election. Now we know.

They also believe in UFOs, the holocaust didn't happen, life begins at 60, and when all else fails punt.

Sorry mate if you look at the facts Al Gore did win the election:yep: Just lucky Bush his daddy cronies were all sitting on the supreme court. Way to go the bush clan by disinfranshing a large slice of the popualtion.:nope:

Yeah, just like the Dems threw out all those Military absentee ballots.

[stabiz]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.
:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D

Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.

[SubSerpent]

Agreed Stabiz. They should change the name of the country to the "UnUnited States of America" since all we do is agree to disagree on EVERYTHING.

If I say, "Black", then one of the rightwing fools is just going to say, "White".

Again, it's all about personal gain on both sides.


True. I have more to gain if a Democrat is in the Whitehouse and as an Independent this is why I am leaning heavily to the left side on issues. Most of this was brought on by my hatred of the war in Iraq which I found to be a completely useless and undeserving war and still do.

Since I am a man of peace I don't believe in war to be used to "control or occupy" another nation that did not attack my own to begin with. Unlike Japan which did attack my country first, I do agree on war efforts. I feel the A-bombs used at the end were a bit too extreme and uncalled for though.

I even agree when Bush stated we were going after Bin Laden. I had no problem with us going to Afganistan to find him and bring him to justice. It was only when Bush declared war on Iraq (almost immidately after getting Afganistan) that I started having a problem with him and his policy. The was about the lowest form of warfare a US president could even dream up.

Just WHAT did Iraq do to our country in the last 10+ years. NOT A DAMN THING! The first gulf war was a needed war to keep Sadaam from taking over Kuwait, but was Sadaam going after Kuwait when we invaded him the second time - NO!

This was an obvious war that Bush wanted and pushed for. When the United Nations didn't agree to war, Bush bypassed them and did it anyways...WTF?!?!

This truly shows that Bush thinks that he and the US are better than any other nation that makes up the United Nations. Bush expects other countries to follow the "rules" but he feels he doesn't need to follow the rules.

He claims that he's "protecting the American people" all the time. Just what the hell is he protecting us from? There was no WMD in Iraq and never was. There is no proof that Sadaam and Bin Laden even said a word to one another, much less Bin Laden ever being in Iraq in his lifetime.

This war is what I consider to be a COMPLETE breakdown in world humanity as well as US law. For one man to be able to start a war and invade another country for no apparent reasons other than his personal vendetta has shown the world that G.W. Bush has way too much power at his fingertips.

It's too bad that soooo many people on this forum support him the way they do. They appear to me to be puppets on Bush's strings. I call their "following" nature unpatriotic and cowardly! These types of people live in fear of everything I imagine. Most of them probably went out and bought a bomb shelter for their garden in the backyard thinking Sadaam had WMD. It's funny how fear can control a person so much that he is willing to do just about anything to avoid the fear anymore and this includes supporting a US president that has committed murder and destruction to the Iraqi people and their families. This is a US president who has committed the beginnings of genocide towards muslims in the world. This is a US president that in the works and bent on world takeover.

[SkvyWvr]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.
:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D

Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.

Like anyone in the US cares about "world polls".

[SkvyWvr]

[quote=SubSerpent]Agreed Stabiz. They should change the name of the country to the "UnUnited States of America" since all we do is agree to disagree on EVERYTHING.

If I say, "Black", then one of the rightwing fools is just going to say, "White". /quote]

And who's to say the one that says "Black" isn't the fool?

[SkvyWvr]

Agreed Stabiz. They should change the name of the country to the "UnUnited States of America" since all we do is agree to disagree on EVERYTHING.

If I say, "Black", then one of the rightwing fools is just going to say, "White".

Again, it's all about personal gain on both sides.


True. I have more to gain if a Democrat is in the Whitehouse and as an Independent this is why I am leaning heavily to the left side on issues. Most of this was brought on by my hatred of the war in Iraq which I found to be a completely useless and undeserving war and still do.

Since I am a man of peace I don't believe in war to be used to "control or occupy" another nation that did not attack my own to begin with. Unlike Japan which did attack my country first, I do agree on war efforts. I feel the A-bombs used at the end were a bit too extreme and uncalled for though.

I even agree when Bush stated we were going after Bin Laden. I had no problem with us going to Afganistan to find him and bring him to justice. It was only when Bush declared war on Iraq (almost immidately after getting Afganistan) that I started having a problem with him and his policy. The was about the lowest form of warfare a US president could even dream up.

Just WHAT did Iraq do to our country in the last 10+ years. NOT A DAMN THING! The first gulf war was a needed war to keep Sadaam from taking over Kuwait, but was Sadaam going after Kuwait when we invaded him the second time - NO!

This was an obvious war that Bush wanted and pushed for. When the United Nations didn't agree to war, Bush bypassed them and did it anyways...WTF?!?!

This truly shows that Bush thinks that he and the US are better than any other nation that makes up the United Nations. Bush expects other countries to follow the "rules" but he feels he doesn't need to follow the rules.

He claims that he's "protecting the American people" all the time. Just what the hell is he protecting us from? There was no WMD in Iraq and never was. There is no proof that Sadaam and Bin Laden even said a word to one another, much less Bin Laden ever being in Iraq in his lifetime.

This war is what I consider to be a COMPLETE breakdown in world humanity as well as US law. For one man to be able to start a war and invade another country for no apparent reasons other than his personal vendetta has shown the world that G.W. Bush has way too much power at his fingertips.

It's too bad that soooo many people on this forum support him the way they do. They appear to me to be puppets on Bush's strings. I call their "following" nature unpatriotic and cowardly! These types of people live in fear of everything I imagine. Most of them probably went out and bought a bomb shelter for their garden in the backyard thinking Sadaam had WMD. It's funny how fear can control a person so much that he is willing to do just about anything to avoid the fear anymore and this includes supporting a US president that has committed murder and destruction to the Iraqi people and their families. This is a US president who has committed the beginnings of genocide towards muslims in the world. This is a US president that in the works and bent on world takeover.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4844/squarelargecatmb4.jpg

[SubSerpent]

Oh, I see you have a fasination with cats and their private parts Skvywvr. Can you milk me Focker?:doh:

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry mate if you look at the facts Al Gore did win the election:yep: Just lucky for Bush his daddy cronies were all sitting on the supreme court. Way to go the bush clan by disinfranshing a large slice of the popualtion.:nope:
Umm...not exactly. The facts are that Bush won the Florida vote. The Gore camp demanded a recount. The vote still went to Bush. The Gore camp demanded another recount. Finally the Florida state Attorney-General said "enough is enough" (yes, I know she's a rabid Republican conservative, but that decision is within her job description). The Gore people got the Florida State Supreme Court to overturn her decision. The Bush camp got the US Supreme Court to overturn their decision. Call names all you like, the fact is that none of the recounts came close to winning Florida for Gore.

I could just as easily state that Gore tried to steal the election, and failed. And my claim would be just as right (or no more right) as yours.

[Sailor Steve]

They also believe in UFOs, the holocaust didn't happen, life begins at 60, and when all else fails punt.
I sure hope so. Gettin' close.

[SkvyWvr]

Oh, I see you have a fasination with cats and their private parts Skvywvr. Can you milk me Focker?:doh:

Yea, I can squeez the milk out of ya, but you won't like it.:smug:

[SkvyWvr]

Oh, I see you have a fasination with cats and their private parts Skvywvr. Can you milk me Focker?:doh:

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpg

[SubSerpent]

Oh, I see you have a fasination with cats and their private parts Skvywvr. Can you milk me Focker?:doh:

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpg


Then you admit guilt to this forum then? The point here SkvyWvr is not to "piss" anyone off, it's to bring facts and theories to the table for all to read into and base a ground for everyone to walk on. Simply being here to "piss" off the other side of what you deem to be right is a violation of forum rules (provoking) and now I truly am offened as well as anyone on this forum who leans more to the left side should be.

Your callus and crass behavior should not be tolerated considering you are here to start trouble and I refuse to debate with the ignorant who are only here to start such trouble. If you are here to "piss" me off or anyone else, then you don't really have a true side of your own and are only on here to further cause grief. Again, this IS a violation of forum rules and considered to be "provoking" or "pouring gas on the fire".

[Bertgang]

I never voted Bush, if I were american, but I hardly could thik to another outcome for 9/11 under a different administration.

Easy to make the right interpretation of small clues, after the horrible thing has happened; to understand something totally out of our mental attitude before is a very different affair.

[SubSerpent]

I never voted Bush, if I were american, but I hardly could thik to another outcome for 9/11 under a different administration.

Easy to make the right interpretation of small clues, after the horrible thing has happened; to understand something totally out of our mental attitude before is a very different affair.

Well I remember not too long ago as I served in Naples at the AFSOUTH base, the Italians there didn't like Bush too much either. They painted a HUGE green peace symbol in the middle of the road and painted "Fock" Bush all over the place. Obviously those Italians are smart people! :up:


Edit:
I was going to put the ":rock:" but I know that is offensive in Italy. I've seen an American friend of mine get his arse kicked by several Italian men for giving them that signal. ":rock:" = BAAAAAADDDDDD in Italy. Just don't do it!

[SkvyWvr]

Oh, I see you have a fasination with cats and their private parts Skvywvr. Can you milk me Focker?:doh:

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpg


Then you admit guilt to this forum then? The point here SkvyWvr is not to "piss" anyone off, it's to bring facts and theories to the table for all to read into and base a ground for everyone to walk on. Simply being here to "piss" off the other side of what you deem to be right is a violation of forum rules (provoking) and now I truly am offened as well as anyone on this forum who leans more to the left side should be.

Your callus and crass behavior should not be tolerated considering you are here to start trouble and I refuse to debate with the ignorant who are only here to start such trouble. If you are here to "piss" me off or anyone else, then you don't really have a true side of your own and are only on here to further cause grief. Again, this IS a violation of forum rules and considered to be "provoking" or "pouring gas on the fire".
I'm sorry if you took it personal however you don't discuss things, you preach. Take a look at both our past posts and you'll see I have expressed what I believe to be valid arguments while you post mini books.

[Subnuts]

I've been considering writing an article about the state of political discourse in this country for some time now.

But, nevermind...:shifty:

[SubSerpent]

I've been considering writing an article about the state of political discourse in this country for some time now.

But, nevermind...:shifty:

:rotfl:

Beatcha to it!!!

[Sailor Steve]

I never voted Bush, if I were american, but I hardly could thik to another outcome for 9/11 under a different administration.

Easy to make the right interpretation of small clues, after the horrible thing has happened; to understand something totally out of our mental attitude before is a very different affair.
I've never been a fan of Bush, and I've long thought that Iraq was a mistake, but it's been my observation that there are a lot of Bush-haters who are just that; they would be squawling if he hadn't gone into Iraq. Likewise if Gore had been elected, and had responded in exactly the same manner; Conservatives would be bashing him and Liberals would be defending him.

If you don't believe me, look at the Clinton "impeachment": Get past all the arguments about "lying" and such, but at the bottom it was just another witchhunt.

[SubSerpent]

I'm glad you were never a fan of one of the most evil and greedy men on this planet. I don't know why anyone would be a fan of him to begin with.:hmm:

[ASWnut101]

because he is actually SANE.

[SubSerpent]

because he is actually SANE.

Yeah, killing babies and women and other innocents in Iraq is really sane! Whatever dude! :nope:

[ASWnut101]

yep, and so was killing 3000+ people on 9/11. but what the hell, right. GWB was president so we deserved it.

[stabiz]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.
:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D
Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.
Like anyone in the US cares about "world polls".

Most Americans do, I would think. Maybe not you guys in NRA, though.

[SubSerpent]

This is why I think several people in the Bush administration should be put behind bars and this includes Bush. Since he was the head honcho at the time he should be found guilty of dereliciton to duty for not attempting at least to stop the act.
:lol: Ain't gonna happen. But anyway, do you think we should put Clinton in jail for the years he let terrorism happen and did nothing to stop those acts? How about Clinton's refusal to put security in our national labratories? How about Clinton categorizing military space applications as dual use...basically giving China the keys to the kingdom? How about label FDR a criminal posthumously for not stopping the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Dude, you are a lost soul. :doh: You totally have no clue whatsoever.

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D
Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.
Like anyone in the US cares about "world polls".

Most Americans do, I would think. Maybe not you guys in NRA, though.

Bush is down in ALL polls. He is nearing Nixon's level of disgust among most Americans. Also, in the 2000 election Bush LOST the "popular vote" and supposedly won on a technical one. The popular vote is the main one though and he lost on that. This is the first time since the 1800s that this has happened and the "loser" became the winner somehow!

[Sea Demon]

Bush is down in ALL polls. He is nearing Nixon's level of disgust among most Americans. Also, in the 2000 election Bush LOST the "popular vote" and supposedly won on a technical one. The popular vote is the main one though and he lost on that. This is the first time since the 1800s that this has happened and the "loser" became the winner somehow!

Actually, Bush's numbers are still above 40% which is historically high for a second term President. Beats out both Reagan and Clinton. The country doesn't think like you. And you forgot to mention that in 2004 Bush won more votes than any President in American history. :)

[SubSerpent]

Bush is down in ALL polls. He is nearing Nixon's level of disgust among most Americans. Also, in the 2000 election Bush LOST the "popular vote" and supposedly won on a technical one. The popular vote is the main one though and he lost on that. This is the first time since the 1800s that this has happened and the "loser" became the winner somehow!

Actually, Bush's numbers are still above 40% which is historically high for a second term President. Beats out both Reagan and Clinton. The country doesn't think like you. And you forgot to mention that in 2004 Bush won more votes than any President in American history. :)

No he didn't! That's BS once again. Man you sure do come up with some bogus things! Silly Rabbit! :roll:

[Sea Demon]

No he didn't! That's BS once again. Man you sure do come up with some bogus things! Silly Rabbit! :roll:


Ooh. Look at all those Republican voters. Oooh.:lol: Bush got 62,040,606 votes in election 2004. More than any other President in US history. :yep:

[Payoff]

Those are impressive numbers when you think about all of the illegals, drug addicts, union strong armed and dead folks that voted for the democrats. Speaking of stolen elections, I seem to recall a fellow named . . . Kennedy who stole an election for the dems by using said dead voters in Chicago. Funny how the dems are fighting mandatory photo I.D.s to vote. Hmmmm. :hmm:

[The Noob]

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D
Sea Naz...Sea Demon, i normally do not say things like this, but please make sure we never really meet. I do not think the outcome would be nice for anyone.

Posts like Sea Demon's just above show why Comparing American Republicans to Nazis is not wrong. It proves that it is a correct Comparsion. Currently Sea Demon, our litte Right Wing Radical is on the Position of "Left Wing people are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication.", now let's just imaginery put him one step further thorwards the right. Then he would have said "Left Wing people are nuts, dumb, and gernerally worse compared to the American Republican Master Race. They are Untermenschen and should not be walking on the streets, they are having bad influence on our kids. They should be put in camps getting gas'ed."

Do we want such People to make the decisions on what the Future of this Planet depends, because they are a Superpower?

Most People will say no. Or think that comparsion is a bit drastic because they are hiding in thier glass house, or rather, Nuclear Bunker Named "USA", with Oncle sam telling them storys to candlelight and marshmellows. :nope:


Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.
Agree totally. But....


Like anyone in the US cares about "world polls".
Thats your Problem. You don't care how Reckless, Idiotic, Nazi, Aggressive, or Rude your actions seem to the Rest of the World. This is one of the reasons why Europe and US people hate each other so much.


Since I am a man of peace I don't believe in war to be used to "control or occupy" another nation that did not attack my own to begin with. Unlike Japan which did attack my country first, I do agree on war efforts. I feel the A-bombs used at the end were a bit too extreme and uncalled for though.
I am leftie too, and i go even one step farer, calling the A-Bomb attack a Inhuman action. The US could have invaded Japan, saving many Civilist lives wich are still lost today due radiation. But no, the US had to test it's new toy. :nope:

The Attack of The Japanese Empire was a attack from Military forces on a Military Target, a Military used Harbor. I did some reserch and found out that the attack killed 68 civilians and 2,403 American Military Personell. How much Civilians did the Attack with the A-Bomb cost? I am sure as hell more Civilians then Military!

The US excuse is that the bombings ended the war months sooner than would otherwise have been the case, saving many lives that would have been lost if the planned invasion of japan had taken place. Well, my attitude is that if you go to the Army you should be ready to get your Head blown off anyway, and it would have saved many, many Japanese civilian lives.


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4844/squarelargecatmb4.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpg
You have succeeded, you pissed me, and them off by calling us fags with no balls. Well, then i can just piss you off too!

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4346/squarelargeskvywvrisdumbqi8.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1733/pissthemoffqp5.jpg

Take that.


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2479/looney500zn2.jpg
I could now Insert the Michael Moore DVD and make a Propagande pic (Wich your's is too!) showing the Faces of Bush and his Dumb Assistants faces with bonanza hats and clothes and then write "The Backwards and Trigger-Happy Right" under it, but i am to lazy.

Now let's continue with the Serious stuff...

I'm sorry if you took it personal however you don't discuss things, you preach. Take a look at both our past posts and you'll see I have expressed what I believe to be valid arguments while you post mini books.
SubSerpent does not post "mini books". He Points out that he thinks the decisions of the Republican governement SUCK and are bad. And i agree. All left wing people will agree, because bush did some very right wing things. Like invading Iraq even if the bin Laden sucker was in afganistan, simply because he couldn't do nothing, nor could he invade Afganistan, cause that would have meant no pipeline for little Georgie.

He has valid points, and his "mini books" rule compared to your posts , wich just consist out of "Your wrong, america **** yeah, Republican is teh r0x0rz !!111!". :nope:

There are only Americans on the Internet as it seems. :shifty:

And the People here in austria are even worse. Stupid Right Wing!

"Right" Politics mean thougher laws, Harder Restrictions, Military interventions, and other **** nobody wants. And the Republicans are simply:

1.Conservative (Wich always will suck, because it means begin not open for new better ways)
2.Republican Reign means that not People are in charge, it means money is. And Money has no Ideals, Political Ideas, or Mercy. It only cares how it can get more.
3.I could list some more but i have better things to do and my English sucks, SubSerpent can take that part.

because he is actually SANE.
Yeah, killing babies and women and other innocents in Iraq is really sane! Whatever dude! :nope:
They can't controle thier Soldiers. But no wonder, they just don't care anymore what thier soldiers do down there, if they kill civilians or die, they are just still down there because bush needs an excuse for certain things.

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:
How old are you? 12?
Ah, the Good 'ol Age argument all Right wing people use if they run out of Arguments or Feel Annoyed.

Wow, my Longest post on the Matter in a while. Can i get a medal for this?
No, because it's still shorter than the Average Skybird posts. Well, no one Managed to beat this intelectuall jet. But i can at least say i tried.

[SkvyWvr]

At any rate, this isn't so hard to figure out. 1/3 of the voting population are hardcore lefties. They are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication. :D
Sea Naz...Sea Demon, i normally do not say things like this, but please make sure we never really meet. I do not think the outcome would be nice for anyone.

Posts like Sea Demon's just above show why Comparing American Republicans to Nazis is not wrong. It proves that it is a correct Comparsion. Currently Sea Demon, our litte Right Wing Radical is on the Position of "Left Wing people are nuts. They shouldn't be walking the streets. They should be in padded cells getting medication.", now let's just imaginery put him one step further thorwards the right. Then he would have said "Left Wing people are nuts, dumb, and gernerally worse compared to the American Republican Master Race. They are Untermenschen and should not be walking on the streets, they are having bad influence on our kids. They should be put in camps getting gas'ed."

Do we want such People to make the decisions on what the Future of this Planet depends, because they are a Superpower?

Most People will say no. Or think that comparsion is a bit drastic because they are hiding in thier glass house, or rather, Nuclear Bunker Named "USA", with Oncle sam telling them storys to candlelight and marshmellows. :nope:


Posts like this explain why USA is down in the world polls.
Agree totally. But....


Like anyone in the US cares about "world polls".
Thats your Problem. You don't care how Reckless, Idiotic, Nazi, Aggressive, or Rude your actions seem to the Rest of the World. This is one of the reasons why Europe and US people hate each other so much.


Since I am a man of peace I don't believe in war to be used to "control or occupy" another nation that did not attack my own to begin with. Unlike Japan which did attack my country first, I do agree on war efforts. I feel the A-bombs used at the end were a bit too extreme and uncalled for though.
I am leftie too, and i go even one step farer, calling the A-Bomb attack a Inhuman action. The US could have invaded Japan, saving many Civilist lives wich are still lost today due radiation. But no, the US had to test it's new toy. :nope:

The Attack of The Japanese Empire was a attack from Military forces on a Military Target, a Military used Harbor. I did some reserch and found out that the attack killed 68 civilians and 2,403 American Military Personell. How much Civilians did the Attack with the A-Bomb cost? I am sure as hell more Civilians then Military!

The US excuse is that the bombings ended the war months sooner than would otherwise have been the case, saving many lives that would have been lost if the planned invasion of japan had taken place. Well, my attitude is that if you go to the Army you should be ready to get your Head blown off anyway, and it would have saved many, many Japanese civilian lives.


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4844/squarelargecatmb4.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpg
You have succeeded, you pissed me, and them off by calling us fags with no balls. Well, then i can just piss you off too!

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4346/squarelargeskvywvrisdumbqi8.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1733/pissthemoffqp5.jpg

Take that.


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2479/looney500zn2.jpg
I could now Insert the Michael Moore DVD and make a Propagande pic (Wich your's is too!) showing the Faces of Bush and his Dumb Assistants faces with bonanza hats and clothes and then write "The Backwards and Trigger-Happy Right" under it, but i am to lazy.

Now let's continue with the Serious stuff...

I'm sorry if you took it personal however you don't discuss things, you preach. Take a look at both our past posts and you'll see I have expressed what I believe to be valid arguments while you post mini books.
SubSerpent does not post "mini books". He Points out that he thinks the decisions of the Republican governement SUCK and are bad. And i agree. All left wing people will agree, because bush did some very right wing things. Like invading Iraq even if the bin Laden sucker was in afganistan, simply because he couldn't do nothing, nor could he invade Afganistan, cause that would have meant no pipeline for little Georgie.

He has valid points, and his "mini books" rule compared to your posts , wich just consist out of "Your wrong, america **** yeah, Republican is teh r0x0rz !!111!". :nope:

There are only Americans on the Internet as it seems. :shifty:

And the People here in austria are even worse. Stupid Right Wing!

"Right" Politics mean thougher laws, Harder Restrictions, Military interventions, and other **** nobody wants. And the Republicans are simply:

1.Conservative (Wich always will suck, because it means begin not open for new better ways)
2.Republican Reign means that not People are in charge, it means money is. And Money has no Ideals, Political Ideas, or Mercy. It only cares how it can get more.
3.I could list some more but i have better things to do and my English sucks, SubSerpent can take that part.

because he is actually SANE.
Yeah, killing babies and women and other innocents in Iraq is really sane! Whatever dude! :nope:
They can't controle thier Soldiers. But no wonder, they just don't care anymore what thier soldiers do down there, if they kill civilians or die, they are just still down there because bush needs an excuse for certain things.

Then I suppose it's off to the hospital for you then! :rotfl:
How old are you? 12?
Ah, the Good 'ol Age argument all Right wing people use if they run out of Arguments or Feel Annoyed.

Wow, my Longest post on the Matter in a while. Can i get a medal for this?
No, because it's still shorter than the Average Skybird posts. Well, no one Managed to beat this intelectuall jet. But i can at least say i tried.

You sure have a thing about Nazis, don't you, I lost count on how many times you mentioned them in your mini book. And yes I am a right winger and a member of the NRA but not a cowboy (Puerto Rican actually). But for all the pissing and moaning you do, you are not in a position to do anything about it. At least I can vote. I am a republican because I don't agree with the Dems policy of raising taxes to provide funds for welfare and other give aways. I almost voted for Clintion the first time around till he said he tried pot but didn't "inhale". That told me he thought the American public was stupid. How he ran his 2 terms prove this. If the Dems provide a viable canidate I might vote for him. You see, I listen to the canidates speeches and make informed decisions based on their plans for the future of the country. I know this sounds strange to you since you are so hung up on Nazis and left wing ideals.

[The Noob]

You sure have a thing about Nazis, don't you, I lost count on how many times you mentioned them in your mini book.
I only mentontion them if i see a good chance to do so.


And yes I am a right winger and a member of the NRA but not a cowboy (Puerto Rican actually). But for all the pissing and moaning you do, you are not in a position to do anything about it.
Member of the NRA? Holy Crap, even worse then i thought. Gun nut...:nope:

And yes, we are in a position to do something about it. Let's see in 20 Years. America will have changed. The rest of the world is pissed at USA. So i am.

Still you are totally sick for saying we wouldn't have balls...i can't help it, but i have to flame back...Moron.


At least I can vote.
So what, i can too, in my country.


I am a republican because I don't agree with the Dems policy of raising taxes to provide funds for welfare and other give aways.
You Sir, are a very selfish person. You only care about yourself, no matter if the rest of the World dies. I'd be glad to pay the Welfare taxes, because i help the poor with it. Cause of "Me First!" people like you america now has enought money to succesfully tyrann the World. :nope:


I almost voted for Clintion the first time around till he said he tried pot but didn't "inhale".
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

So you Really think Bush didn't try such sh** when he was yunger? :rotfl:
He just wasn't honest, and thats why you voted for him. :rotfl:

It's too funny! :rotfl:


That told me he thought the American public was stupid.
He was entirely right.


You see, I listen to the canidates speeches and make informed decisions based on their plans for the future of the country.
Everyone does this. And here in my Country the Left wing is the only acceptable candidate. The Capitalists only care about economy, the Right Wing are Nazis over here, so only the Left wing is useful. And i believe it is the same way for the USA. With a Left Wing in power, bush's sh** could have been avoided. Or do you really think the Iraq war was good..:rotfl::rotfl:


I know this sounds strange to you since you are so hung up on Nazis and left wing ideals.
Correct.

[The Avon Lady]

You sure have a thing about Nazis, don't you, I lost count on how many times you mentioned them in your mini book.
I only mentontion them if i see a good chance to do so.
I haven't seen any of these good chances you are talking about.

And yes I am a right winger and a member of the NRA but not a cowboy (Puerto Rican actually). But for all the pissing and moaning you do, you are not in a position to do anything about it.
Member of the NRA? Holy Crap, even worse then i thought. Gun nut...:nope:
I have no position on gun control, simply because both sides are constantly presenting facts that contradict one another and I cannot figure out whose statistics are lying (might be both sides, BTW).

Since you're such an expert, however, and since every NRA member must be a gun nut in your book, can you please respond in detail to this article:

Newsflash: Criminals, it seems, don’t obey laws (http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2006/10/newsflash-criminals-it-seems-dont-obey.html).

I'm sure you can easily counterpoint the article, being so assured in your opinions.
And yes, we are in a position to do something about it. Let's see in 20 Years. America will have changed. The rest of the world is pissed at USA. So i am.
As an American citizen I'd just like to say that frankly, Noob, I don't give a damn.
Still you are totally sick for saying we wouldn't have balls...
I'm safe here...........................

I am a republican because I don't agree with the Dems policy of raising taxes to provide funds for welfare and other give aways.
You Sir, are a very selfish person. You only care about yourself, no matter if the rest of the World dies.
You're a very pig-headed person. Saying that you do not believe in a massive social welfare policy does not make a person selfish. Get over your supposed moral superiority.
I'd be glad to pay the Welfare taxes, because i help the poor with it.
Great idea. I'd love to see voluntary taxes imposed and then watch the bleeding heart masses put up or shut up.
Cause of "Me First!" people like you america now has enought money to succesfully tyrann the World. :nope:
There's a perfect word for this type of talk: rhetoric.

[The Noob]

I have no position on gun control, simply because both sides are constantly presenting facts that contradict one another and I cannot figure out whose statistics are lying (might be both sides, BTW).

Since you're such an expert, however, and since every NRA member must be a gun nut in your book, can you please respond in detail to this article:

Newsflash: Criminals, it seems, don’t obey laws (http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2006/10/newsflash-criminals-it-seems-dont-obey.html).
Hmmm. That Article brings up a valid point.


I'm sure you can easily counterpoint the article, being so assured in your opinions.
I Fear you are wrong there.


And yes, we are in a position to do something about it. Let's see in 20 Years. America will have changed. The rest of the world is pissed at USA. So i am. As an American citizen I'd just like to say that frankly, Noob, I don't give a damn.
And i don't doubt that. You just don't give a damn what the Rest of the World thinks of you, as an American citizen. Your leaders can do what they want. You don't give a damn.

Sometimes i really wish i would be a Braindead American who don't gives a damn, my life would be more enjoyable then. But no, i'm a Austrian Leftie and have to suffer...:damn:


You're a very pig-headed person.
:shifty:


Saying that you do not believe in a massive social welfare policy does not make a person selfish.
Well, i just think the other way around. Those People need help, and someone has to pay it. Everyone a bit is the best choice for stuff like this.


Get over your supposed moral superiority.
No. NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

There's a perfect word for this type of talk: rhetoric.
I think it can be better explained by a Flame War of the Sides and Ideoligys. Such things cost much power wich could be used someware else better (at least for me). Still everyone does take a part in it. And my side is always heavily outnumbered.

I better stop now.

It's always like that. I always swear to never open my mouth on Politics again but all the time i come back to it. :damn:

But things like "The Looney left" or this pictures by SkvyWvr are on a level i don't lower myself to. Such sh** wich is only intended to piss off or provocate is just damn RETARDED and last but not least, CHILDISH.

End of Rant.

*Stands up and Runs outta thread*

[SkvyWvr]

*Stands up and Runs outta thread*

:sunny: :sunny: :D :D :|\\ :|\\

[The Avon Lady]

And yes, we are in a position to do something about it. Let's see in 20 Years. America will have changed. The rest of the world is pissed at USA. So i am. As an American citizen I'd just like to say that frankly, Noob, I don't give a damn.
And i don't doubt that. You just don't give a damn what the Rest of the World thinks of you, as an American citizen. Your leaders can do what they want. You don't give a damn.
Not true at all. Once again you make false assumptions. Whether I agree or disagree with a policy of my country is not or need not be dependent on the rantings of others, whom I'm just as much entitled to agree or disagree with.
Sometimes i really wish i would be a Braindead American who don't gives a damn, my life would be more enjoyable then. But no, i'm a Austrian Leftie and have to suffer...:damn:
Bummer. :smug:

You're a very pig-headed person.
:shifty:
That's what you get for making wild assumption about other people here and misconstruing their words to suit your obvious anti-American non-left stereotype.

Saying that you do not believe in a massive social welfare policy does not make a person selfish.
Well, i just think the other way around. Those People need help, and someone has to pay it. Everyone a bit is the best choice for stuff like this.
I didn't understand your last sentence but by the time you explain it to us, Sweden's social state will be that much more of a social case.

Too much of a good thing is no good.

[Immacolata]

I think it is slightly myopic to believe that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world. That makes you fall for the same one-eyedness you accuse americans of. Swedens redistribution model is one way to achieve welfare. The american jobs and consumption for everyone is another. Both systems produce losers that turns into junkies, drunkies, munchies etc.

[The Avon Lady]

I think it is slightly myopic to believe that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world.
On the contrary. I don't. And I thought I had clearly stated so.

Read: Sweden drowning in crime, unemployment, high taxes (http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Stories.aspx?StoryId=152D1CF8-6929-4912-B74F-A81EC8822412&page=1).

For a crazier read, see Crazy for Work (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=091806D). :88)

[Immacolata]

AVL, you argue against me yet we say the same. Ill rewrite that then. I believe it is naïve to think that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world. By that I mean that even if the system rules have all the nice sweet things written down, the actual modern swedish society isn't a dance on roses or how to put it. It has losers, many losers, but stowed away on various "accounts" to make it look like all is bliss and well.

[The Noob]

*Stands up and Runs outta thread*
:sunny: :sunny: :D :D :|\\ :|\\
*Comes back, From Hairs to Boots Covered with ammo, like some crazy midjet rambo* :stare:

I didn't understand your last sentence but by the time you explain it to us, Sweden's social state will be that much more of a social case.
DISAGREE.

Sweden Rocks. :smug:
I seriously consider to move to Sweden. :up:

Too much of a good thing is no good.
A thing we like to say over here too. But in Sweden it is not too much. It's nice there.

Sweden was long time speaked of by the Left wing of europe as a third way between Socialism and Capitalism. Thanks to some reform's this has changed since the 90's.

Still it is nice to be over there. :yep:



You're a very pig-headed person.
:shifty: That's what you get for making wild assumption about other people here and misconstruing their words to suit your obvious anti-American non-left stereotype.
No, what made me using the pissed smiley was the fact that you could be correct.

I think it is slightly myopic to believe that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world.
Well, there is no more social country then sweden, in my opinion the best country in the world. Does not make any military interventions like America. Builds nice Conventional submarines. And rocks.

That makes you fall for the same one-eyedness you accuse americans of.
Hmmmmm. Could be correct. :hmm:

The american jobs and consumption for everyone is another.
Wich i do not like.

Both systems produce losers that turns into junkies, drunkies, munchies etc.
Every system does.

[The Avon Lady]

AVL, you argue against me yet we say the same. Ill rewrite that then. I believe it is naïve to think that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world. By that I mean that even if the system rules have all the nice sweet things written down, the actual modern swedish society isn't a dance on roses or how to put it. It has losers, many losers, but stowed away on various "accounts" to make it look like all is bliss and well.
Ah! :up:

This calls for a quote:

"Liberalism has its own history and its own tradition. Socialism has its own formulas and aims. Socialism seeks to pull down wealth; Liberalism seeks to raise up poverty. Socialism would destroy private interests; Liberalism would preserve private interests in the only way in which they can be safely and justly preserved, namely, by reconciling them with public right. Socialism would kill enterprise; Liberalism would rescue enterprise from the trammels of privilege and preference. Socialism assails the pre-eminence of the individual; Liberalism seeks, and shall seek more in the future, to build up a minimum standard for the mass. Socialism exalts the rule; Liberalism exalts the man. Socialism attacks capital; Liberalism attacks monopoly."
- Winston Churchill, Kinnaird Hall, Dundee, May 14, 1908.

;)

[SkvyWvr]

[quote=The Noob]
Sweden Rocks. :smug:
I seriously consider to move to Sweden. :up:[quote]

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1508/3560741458113bm1.jpg

[joea]

I am leftie too, and i go even one step farer, calling the A-Bomb attack a Inhuman action. The US could have invaded Japan, saving many Civilist lives wich are still lost today due radiation. But no, the US had to test it's new toy. :nope:

The Attack of The Japanese Empire was a attack from Military forces on a Military Target, a Military used Harbor. I did some reserch and found out that the attack killed 68 civilians and 2,403 American Military Personell. How much Civilians did the Attack with the A-Bomb cost? I am sure as hell more Civilians then Military!

The US excuse is that the bombings ended the war months sooner than would otherwise have been the case, saving many lives that would have been lost if the planned invasion of japan had taken place. Well, my attitude is that if you go to the Army you should be ready to get your Head blown off anyway, and it would have saved many, many Japanese civilian lives.


I am REALLY getting tired of this comaprison, WWII in the Pacific was NOT just between Japan and the United States. Or are 10 million Chinese and however many Koreans and Fillipinos not important??? Well not for a European maybe, I mean you do know the US military certainly killed more German civilians than US civilians killed by German forces (I know in Europe the USAAF tried precision bombing more German civilians were killed by RAF bombing or the Red Army) still you can make your point without distorting history. Pearl Harbour was not an honourable attack against a military target, it's real target was Asia, and purpose to allow the aggression against China and other places to go unchecked. Sort of like Hitler's attack against France and attempt to knock out Great Britain by, while partly to avenge the humiliation of 1918, was mainly to allow Germany to keep the western front quiet to allow Barbarrosa to proceed unmolested. Honestly both sides here are getting hysterical. :damn:

[Fish]

I think it is slightly myopic to believe that Sweden is the welfare paradise of the world.
On the contrary. I don't. And I thought I had clearly stated so.

Read: Sweden drowning in crime, unemployment, high taxes (http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Stories.aspx?StoryId=152D1CF8-6929-4912-B74F-A81EC8822412&page=1).

For a crazier read, see Crazy for Work (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=091806D). :88)

Right wing news:
We at TCS believe strongly in the power of free markets

[The Avon Lady]

Right wing news:
:ping: :ping: OH MY GOSH! :ping: :ping:

:ping: :ping: :ping: A A A L A A A R M ! ! ! :ping: :ping: :ping:
We at TCS believe strongly in the power of free markets
Gasp!

So they must've made the whole thing up. :yep:

[Fish]

Right wing news:
:ping: :ping: OH MY GOSH! :ping: :ping:

:ping: :ping: :ping: A A A L A A A R M ! ! ! :ping: :ping: :ping:
We at TCS believe strongly in the power of free markets
Gasp!

So they must've made the whole thing up. :yep:

Now you say?:hmm:

[joea]

I seem to be peeing in the wind here. :nope:

[August]

I am leftie too, and i go even one step farer, calling the A-Bomb attack a Inhuman action. The US could have invaded Japan, saving many Civilist lives wich are still lost today due radiation. But no, the US had to test it's new toy. :nope:

The Attack of The Japanese Empire was a attack from Military forces on a Military Target, a Military used Harbor. I did some reserch and found out that the attack killed 68 civilians and 2,403 American Military Personell. How much Civilians did the Attack with the A-Bomb cost? I am sure as hell more Civilians then Military!

The US excuse is that the bombings ended the war months sooner than would otherwise have been the case, saving many lives that would have been lost if the planned invasion of japan had taken place. Well, my attitude is that if you go to the Army you should be ready to get your Head blown off anyway, and it would have saved many, many Japanese civilian lives.


I am REALLY getting tired of this comaprison, WWII in the Pacific was NOT just between Japan and the United States. Or are 10 million Chinese and however many Koreans and Fillipinos not important??? Well not for a European maybe, I mean you do know the US military certainly killed more German civilians than US civilians killed by German forces (I know in Europe the USAAF tried precision bombing more German civilians were killed by RAF bombing or the Red Army) still you can make your point without distorting history. Pearl Harbour was not an honourable attack against a military target, it's real target was Asia, and purpose to allow the aggression against China and other places to go unchecked. Sort of like Hitler's attack against France and attempt to knock out Great Britain by, while partly to avenge the humiliation of 1918, was mainly to allow Germany to keep the western front quiet to allow Barbarrosa to proceed unmolested. Honestly both sides here are getting hysterical. :damn:
You have to understand Joe, that people like the Noob aren't here to debate issues or gain a better understanding of different viewpoints, they are here for the sole purpose of jerking peoples chains into getting angry. It's our disgust and irritation they feed upon.

Because of this you can make the strongest argument possible and they will ignore it. You can counter their wild accusations with facts and figures and it won't matter one bit to them. It's not that they can't see your point, they just refuse to, because if they did that would stop the fun they're having.

[The Noob]

You have to understand Joe, that people like the Noob aren't here to debate issues or gain a better understanding of different viewpoints, they are here for the sole purpose of jerking peoples chains into getting angry.

This is wrong. I am not here to flame or Troll, i have stated this various times now. To make this clear, i quote the "Grand-and-mighty-all-approved-Wikipedia" section about trolling. Take a look at "Internet Troll" by yourself, thats how it's actually written there.


Often, a person will post a sincere message about which he is emotionally sensitive. Skillful trolls know that an easy way to upset the person is to falsely claim that they are a "troll." In forums where most users are similar to each other, outsiders may be perceived as trolls simply because they do not fit into the social norms of that group. It can sometimes be difficult to distinguish between a user who merely has different values, views, or ideas, and a user who is intentionally trolling. This can lead to genuinely hostile behavior, including flame wars.


This should show it. And i guess you all know that i have different views wich may seem stupid, lunatic, or crazy to you, but not to me. I am not intentionally trolling. Most of my "rant" posts get written this way if another thing wich i just can't take because it is SO MUCH against my personal ideas of how a governement should behave that it makes me freak out a bit...:oops:

(Sorry! :smug:)

I am here in General forum's Political Topics to debate issues and gain a better understanding of your viewpoints, wich i did in the process of discussing with you all. (And of course, talk about subs)

And i found out, you aren't that way i thought.
Your views are still strange to me, but in a different way. ;)


It's our disgust and irritation they feed upon.

No. I am disgusted from your political views. And i try not to irritate anyone. If my posts should be offending against you it is not done on purpose. But of course this is a fact, that right wing gets irritated and disgusted on left wing people.

Thats the nature of politics. ;)


Because of this you can make the strongest argument possible and they will ignore it. You can counter their wild accusations with facts and figures and it won't matter one bit to them.

Again Wrong. You could not convince me jet. Because you arguments, facts, or figures are all based on loose accusations and Excuse-Alike things.

At least it seems this way for me. Wich could be Irritating, Dusgusting, Strange, Annoying or otherwise offending to some people.

(I should put this in my signature:
Warning: My posts could be Irritating, Dusgusting, Strange, Annoying or otherwise offending to some people.)


It's not that they can't see your point, they just refuse to, because if they did that would stop the fun they're having.

Do you seriously think writing "mini-books" as you call them is fun? Do you think endless arguing with various persons in a "1 vs. 4" discussion wich will never get your point is fun? Du you think defending against SUCH accusions that you make is fun? Do you seriously think Sea Demons sh** like "Put all lefties under drugs!" is fun?

(Actually that made me nearly smashing on the keyboard, because i never heard anything more stupid. In my entire life.)

No, it is living hell.

I am only here to discuss the Worlds concerns, argue on important matters to bring my idea in the Discussion, and last but not least, defend my viewpoint and ideals from People like Sea Demon, who should be the ones not walking on the streets, because such comments are beyond good and evil, they are already in the "Dumb or Retarded?" Section.

Did i loose my patience again? Did i overreact or get to angry about things i shouldn't? Well then forgive me. Please. :)

[TteFAboB]

(Actually that made me nearly smashing on the keyboard, because i never heard anything more stupid. In my entire life.)


If you ever do this make sure you film it so we have a new version of this old video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45IXLsUSpKA :cool: :smug:

[The Noob]

(Actually that made me nearly smashing on the keyboard, because i never heard anything more stupid. In my entire life.)

If you ever do this make sure you film it so we have a new version of this old video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45IXLsUSpKA :cool: :smug:
Good one...:rotfl::up:

"LMAO" would be the right forumish word for this...:rotfl::rotfl:

But this video is wrong. I've seen worse germans, believe me. :D

(Apart from that i'm Austrian. But it's nearly the same anyway.)

And that video is actually a fake. :D
But anyway, great. :rotfl::up:


Wanna know what i did today in the morning? This!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxq2QbMg-H8

Enjoy. :rotfl::rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Do you seriously think writing "mini-books" as you call them is fun? Do you think endless arguing with various persons in a "1 vs. 4" discussion wich will never get your point is fun? Du you think defending against SUCH accusions that you make is fun? Do you seriously think Sea Demons sh** like "Put all lefties under drugs!" is fun?

(Actually that made me nearly smashing on the keyboard, because i never heard anything more stupid. In my entire life.)

defend my viewpoint and ideals from People like Sea Demon, who should be the ones not walking on the streets, because such comments are beyond good and evil, they are already in the "Dumb or Retarded?" Section.


Uh. I actually didn't say that all left-wingers should be drugged. That's where you're wrong. I never start these threads, but I've noticed there's a couple of bomb-throwers that come here for the sake of flaming threads. And yes, they both are insane left-wingers who are obsessed with President Bush. And I will usually respond to such stupidity. But what I did say was that insane people should be hospitalized and given medication. There's a difference there buddy. Yes, I do think many socialists are nuts. For example, how many times do we have to see their worldview come crashing to the floor before they realize that their solutions are unteneble? They hang on to a dreamworld utopia called communism despite the fact that human nature does not allow for the implementation of this fallacious political system. This system, when implemented always leads to low standards of living and eventually political oppression.

I'll ignore your personal insults, as I realize you are a kid. You haven't any experience in paying taxes, paying bills, or raising a family. You haven't even finished school yet. You haven't been a part of a military unit. And you probably live with your parents. You may actually change your thinking once you grow up and start taking on more responsibility for yourself. I've seen other lefties I know finally grow up when they've reached adulthood and start paying bills, paying taxes, and raise families. Some people never grow up and hang on to this failed worldview. But it's amazing how people start thinking once they have a larger stake in their own societies.

[The Noob]

I never start these threads, but I've noticed there's a couple of bomb-throwers that come here for the sake of flaming threads.
There are, and i dislike them. I do generally do not like Trolls.


And yes, they both are insane left-wingers who are obsessed with President Bush.
Or they fake a certain kind of personality to troll more succesfull.


I'll ignore your personal insults, as I realize you are a kid.
I'll ignore this sentence as i realize - it sucks.


You haven't any experience in paying taxes, paying bills, or raising a family.
No, but my Father has, and even he is Left-Wing. What does that tell us? Yes, little david is rather poor compared with the Average person. And poor people like Left Wing ideas.


You haven't even finished school yet.
You are wrong there. Because i never actually started school. I got my education from elseware, as i left school in the 3. Class. Then i had education at home. My english might be bad, but i learned it all by myself, a thing i am proud of. :smug:

(And most other Austrians can't speak a single word of it.)

And i am 14, just for the records. I know that now everyone will stop to cummunicate or respond to me with the normal excuse "He's still a kid". This in fact, this the thing that pissed me off the most in real life. And People of my age usually just give idiotic blather, a level i am not going down to. Normal 14 Year old are Morons with that you can't discuss talk or do anything useful. (And most of the time they cheat at counterstrike by the way)

I am not.

No, i am no 8 year old crazy one who saw to many Stalin Documentations, friend.


You haven't been a part of a military unit.
MUHAHAHAHA!

And if there's one thing i can assure you it's that i never will. I am not going to the military and fight or die for ideals i don't even stand for.

F*ck Military. If someone from another country attacks MY House, and then it actually starts to matter for me, i and my neihbors blow them away with all we got.

Like in Swiss!

If there would be a Country and it's Military wich represents my views and wich has a fighting chance, maybe, i said maybe, i would go there.

But under these circumstances, all they get is a big Fat NO. But i can avoid military here in Austria in doing something called "Civil Service", where you have to work for Civil services for the benefit of the People to compensate your lack of will to get yourself shot - a thing i galdly do.


And you probably live with your parents.
Of course i do, and everyone who doesn't is a bit of a fool. The Dishes magically dissapear and reappear washed, the Living, Bed, and Power is for free...nice people, those parents.

In this point, i am very italian.


You may actually change your thinking once you grow up and start taking on more responsibility for yourself.
My father hasn't, so why should i? I took a quick glance on Western Governements and ideals, the ideals aren't even bad, the execution sucks. No matter if Communism or Socialism can be archived, left wing politics in the Democratic System, can be.

With Semi-Communistic ideas.

This does work. *Points Finger Thorwards Sweden*

And no matter how much you, Avon Lady, or Svrrwrasf or however it's written rant against sweden, it is still the best country in the world, from my viewpoint.

Of course you could say the same of America, oh sorry, "The USA". It's all a matter of the viewpoint.


I've seen other lefties I know finally grow up when they've reached adulthood and start paying bills, paying taxes, and raise families.
Those are not Lefties then. They are crazed Kiddies, a group i do not fall under. They say they would be commies but are the biggest consumers. I dislike them, they have no idea what they talk about.


But it's amazing how people start thinking once they have a larger stake in their own societies.
You mean once they get Selfish, rich, and Greedy enought? It's sure amazing.


Some people never grow up and hang on to this failed worldview.
Some People never wake up and hang on to this failed worldview - a sentence i could use against the Right-Wing. It's quite funny that we always conter with the same sentences, only slightly altered to suit cilces.

[SubSerpent]

Do you seriously think writing "mini-books" as you call them is fun? Do you think endless arguing with various persons in a "1 vs. 4" discussion wich will never get your point is fun? Du you think defending against SUCH accusions that you make is fun? Do you seriously think Sea Demons sh** like "Put all lefties under drugs!" is fun?

(Actually that made me nearly smashing on the keyboard, because i never heard anything more stupid. In my entire life.)

defend my viewpoint and ideals from People like Sea Demon, who should be the ones not walking on the streets, because such comments are beyond good and evil, they are already in the "Dumb or Retarded?" Section.


Uh. I actually didn't say that all left-wingers should be drugged. That's where you're wrong. I never start these threads, but I've noticed there's a couple of bomb-throwers that come here for the sake of flaming threads. And yes, they both are insane left-wingers who are obsessed with President Bush. And I will usually respond to such stupidity. But what I did say was that insane people should be hospitalized and given medication. There's a difference there buddy. Yes, I do think many socialists are nuts. For example, how many times do we have to see their worldview come crashing to the floor before they realize that their solutions are unteneble? They hang on to a dreamworld utopia called communism despite the fact that human nature does not allow for the implementation of this fallacious political system. This system, when implemented always leads to low standards of living and eventually political oppression.

I'll ignore your personal insults, as I realize you are a kid. You haven't any experience in paying taxes, paying bills, or raising a family. You haven't even finished school yet. You haven't been a part of a military unit. And you probably live with your parents. You may actually change your thinking once you grow up and start taking on more responsibility for yourself. I've seen other lefties I know finally grow up when they've reached adulthood and start paying bills, paying taxes, and raise families. Some people never grow up and hang on to this failed worldview. But it's amazing how people start thinking once they have a larger stake in their own societies.

Sea Demon,

Sorry to have to break wind in front of you, but you make NO SENSE at all. Firstly, you state that your side is the "peaceful" side to the resolution. However, your side wants to commit violence to get to that "peaceful" goal. I'm sorry, but committing violence against others is NEVER the best way to go about things, NEVER. Didn't your mommy ever tell you that? Are you mad that you were never breast fed as a child? Perhaps she took the nipple away too soon? Where is all this hatred and pent up rage coming from within you? I think you are low my brother, way low. I think your heart is as black as coal and all you are on here to do is to build up hate among others that are unknowing just so they can be like you!

The Noob and I, as well as many others on here have stated that we want peace and Iraq should never have been invaded. History has shown us that war is never the way to resolve a problem unless it is done in pure self defense and by that I mean the US should have been attacked first by a particular nation or organization. True, Al Qaeda did attack the American nation and should be attacked right back and eliminated from existance, but Iraq never attacked the US directly and never had plans to do so apparently.

Your mentallity is one of a bully, meaning that you are that tough kid who came to school and let your presence be known by throwing punches into the faces of innocent classmates just to show off your might. This only works against you later on though as those school kids NEVER forget you and the harm you committed to their noses and mouths. As they grow older they sometimes have the edge on you and turn right back around and pummel you into the dirt. After all, you did it to them first. That is what most people would call a well deserved beating. This is why war is never a good thing. One nation may have the edge today, but tomorrow is always unknowing.

We live in a spoiled rotten nation. Do I hate this? No. I love to be able to have multiple cars and own my own home. I love to have food in my stomach at night and to be able to live with my family. I love freedom. However, I have lived abroad in other countries as part of my military job. I have seen what poverty and starvation truly is. This is why I liked Clinton. I didn't view him as a man who had a good time with his secretary. I viewed him as a president and a person who cared not only about his country, but cared about the other countries in the world as well. You say he sold us out to China and dropped our American guard. I say he made a friend out of China for us and I say he dropped the American fists that are always displayed to every nation out there. We come across as a bully nation and a stingy one at that. We have all this extra money and food that goes to waste every day when it could be going to other nations and people that need coats to wear in the winter and food in their stomachs as well. There are starving childern all over this planet and yet all America can do is ask the world, "What have you done for me lately" as she so boldly holds her fists up in front of her face.

It takes a special type of person I guess to see this from inside his own country. Perhaps it's because I have lived abroad in a foriegn land before, but I am not alone. There are many American just like me that feel this way. Some are afraid to come out and state how they truly feel and hide behind that tough boy image that is so much easier to flaunt off when you live in the worlds superpower nation. It's so easy to pick favorites and say, "I like you, but I don't like you" when you have that much power. You are easy to judge onto people and cultures you know nothing about except for what TV and racist bigets tell you. I say open up your heart and learn to love and talk with your fellow man. Learn to tell him how you feel and don't be afraid to hear what he has to tell you. Confront your problems but don't be afraid of change. Listen with your soul and not with your eyes! Peace can happen if you let it. Talking is the way to start!

[Sea Demon]

For the record Noob, it's not you that I refer to when I speak of these looney lefty "bomb-throwing" trolls here in Subsim. You seem like a very smart kid, and rather idealistic. Not quite a bad trait in young people. But you still have no right to call anybody greedy for believing in economic freedom and personal responsibility. I found it interesting that here in the USA, the most generous states (charitable donations) are Republican states. 27 out of 30 of the least generous are from the more lefty democrat states. Like it or not, you still have alot to learn. And you still have yet to experience the things that form the backbone of opinion in your own life.

Don't say that poor people prefer socialism with such broadness. I had many lean years at times, and yet I still held on to personal freedom and economic liberty. You should have seen the way I had to budget to make ends meet in college. It was tough. But nevertheless, I have never felt that people's private property are privy to state confiscation as a means of redistribution. That's economic slavery, friend. Don't grow up thinking you have all the answers right now. You may surprise yourself years from now on how some of your own views change. Some of the things I believed at your age have withered away into oblivion as I've grown and experienced things in life. Look at the world around you, and learn from it.

[The Noob]

Very Well.

For the record Noob, it's not you that I refer to when I speak of these looney lefty "bomb-throwing" trolls here in Subsim.
There are certain individuals who use the Left vs. Right "Duell" as a oppertunity to start huge, sites long flame wars, this is true.

I never got what is the motivation of these people or what sense such things make, anyway. :88)

Like it or not, you still have alot to learn. And you still have yet to experience the things that form the backbone of opinion in your own life.
Sounds Good. But currently these are my only ideals, and i will continue to stand for them till something convinces me that they are not good or that there are better ones around.


Don't grow up thinking you have all the answers right now. You may surprise yourself years from now on how some of your own views change. Some of the things I believed at your age have withered away into oblivion as I've grown and experienced things in life.
We will see what i believe in 5-10 Years with a postcount of 7000..:lol:


Look at the world around you, and learn from it.
A important law of life.

[SkvyWvr]

No, but my Father has, and even he is Left-Wing. What does that tell us? Yes, little david is rather poor compared with the Average person. And poor people like Left Wing ideas.

Oh my, did you just go running home to Daddy?:nope:

[joea]

You have to understand Joe, that people like the Noob aren't here to debate issues or gain a better understanding of different viewpoints, they are here for the sole purpose of jerking peoples chains into getting angry. It's our disgust and irritation they feed upon.

Because of this you can make the strongest argument possible and they will ignore it. You can counter their wild accusations with facts and figures and it won't matter one bit to them. It's not that they can't see your point, they just refuse to, because if they did that would stop the fun they're having.

Well August, your responses for the most part show me you are a person I would gladly have a beer with, even if we disagree on a many (not all) things. Most others here are the same. I have real world friends with whom I have had some big arguments on politcs and history but we remain good friends.

@ N00b you might be a nice guy with a silly edge I find amusing, but the fact you ignored the arguments in my post (which are about history and don't involve the United States directly) to respond directly to August shows me you are obsessed with attacking the US and Americans. This even to the point of ignoring certain historical facts or posters like myself, who are not American, even share some of your opinions but don't want to go to the same extreme and show some nuance.

[Fish]

back to topic.

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.09.14.NewDesecrater-X.gif

[tycho102]

This is worth some kind of correlation:
Steel girders don't melt when exposed to burning liquid. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070429/ts_nm/usa_crash_bridge_dc;_ylt=A0WTUcDOQTVG3ycAUgCs0NUE)

It was the Navy using resonance charges. They're still pissed about Almeda and that ship museum.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

........ just end this thread already... already had a s***storm about it... who cares about them it happened years ago in the PAST... lets forget and move on..:roll:

edit: and y is subserpent banned?? did he talk to much smack?? (PWNED lol had to say that)

[The Avon Lady]

........ just end this thread already... already had a s***storm about it... who cares about them it happened years ago in the PAST... lets forget and move on..:roll:
This coming from someone linking to crackpot 911 conspiracy sites here on the forum not too long ago.

The truth hurts. :oops:

It's just sad that someone has to bother telling a bunch of nutters "we told you so" for something relatively rational.

[Tchocky]

The tragedy of the Internet......everyone can get at it

My God, the traffic on this site....80 posts....1400 views

[jumpy]

Looks like too many people here just can't resist having a dig when they feel the opportunity is ripe... no real surprise for the usual suspects there then, eh? :nope:

Were it not from so many established members it would be laughable. Unfortunately, it is, so it isn't even remotely amusing; just disappointingly revealing.

Have yourselves a miserable 'one star' rating. This thread gets a big :down::down: from me.

[Safe-Keeper]

1.The Project For a New American Century publishes an article in the mid-90's calling for an invasion of Iraq and recognizing that it will probably take "A Pearl Harbor-type event" to rally the nation for such an invasion.And they were right. They made an assessment of the situation that turned out to be accurate. Your point?

As an analogy, let's say that you want a stretch of road secured against landslide. The authorities are stubborn, and you go 'it'll take a catastrophe for them to actually secure this place'. A year later, the stretch of road is hit by a landslide, and then secured. Is your quote indicative of you setting off the landslide? Nope. You made an honest assessment on how humans, when it comes to safe-guarding, almost always wait until its' too late before they get off thier asses and do something. It's a law of nature.

Likewise, it did take a 'Pearl Harbour-type event' to convince the right-wing US sheep to invade Iraq. Honest assessment. Plain and simple.

2.According to Richard Clarke, the Bush transition team didn't want to hear about al-Qaeda and wanted only briefings on Iraq. At the same time, they hosted emissaries from the Taliban in order to secure an oil pipeline deal to connect the oil fields of Central Asia to the Indian subcontinent. They promote closer ties to Pakistan and their Interservices Intelligence Agency who not only financed and promoted the Taliban but also had members linked to providing money to the 9/11 hijackers.Which, along with Ritter's report and the Downing Street Memo, is part of proving that they're war-mongers who used the tragedy of 9/11 for their own gain, but does not prove that they were behind 9/11.

3. As the 9 months between the inauguration and the attack unfold, Clarke's group is demoted and ignored. Meanwhile, alarm bells are sounding around the nation as FBI reports Muslim men taking flight school instructions only in flying without training in take-offs or landings. According to Woodward's new book, Condoleeza Rice as National Security Advisor is told in July by both Tenant and Negroponte that al-Qaeda is planning an attack in the US using hijacked airliners as weapons. We also have the Presidential Daily Briefing in August warning of similar attacks. All of these warnings are ignored and minimized.See point #1. Governments neglect people all the time. Bush and his predessesors ignored the danger of attack from ibn Ladin and 3000 people died as a result. Just like thousands of other politicians and bureaucrats have neglected dangers in the past. But this does not mean they were behind the attack. Being neglective of a threat and being in charge of the threat are two different things.

4.The attacks happen and the US goes into Afghanistan. However, they use local surrogate militias under the alleigance of local warlords allowing the top al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders to escape Tora Bora into Pakistan's Northwest Frontier.Strategic mistakes are incriminative now? I suppose the French wanted the Germans to invade them, then? I suppose the US wanted Pearl Harbour to be bombed. I suppose that when the policemen failed to catch Cho before he shot 31 more people, it was because they wanted him to shoot 32 more people.

Or it's that Bush didn't care much about ibn Ladin. Even so, it doesn't mean he was behind 9/11. It just proves he's got his priorities messed up.

5. Taliban and al-Qaeda prisoners that are captured are tortured, providing unreliable information that is used by the Bush administration to make their case for the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld draws down troop levels from Afghanistan and prepares to invade Iraq.We all (well, most of us) know the US wanted to invade Iraq. This does not prove they were behind 9/11.

6. The US goes into Iraq with the fig leaf of the Coalition of the Willing. The Army they send is enough to defeat the Iraqi Army, but not enough to secure order in the country.
They disband the Iraqi Army and send the troops home with their arms while looting breaks out. Rumsfeld dismisses the looting as normal. The Coalition Provisional Authority is organised to run Iraqi reconstruction, but the main Hiring executive, Jim O'Beirne is more interested in hiring Bush loyalists than in hiring expeienced and competent people with backgrounds in such reconstruction. Halliburton and other US corporations are given no-bid contracts. In the ensuing months, billions of dollars disappear. The companies tasked with reconstruction hire people from other third-world countries instead of Iraqis fueling the growth of the insurgency.In short: The US invades a stable dictatorship and turns it into a civil war-ridden anarchy, causing the deaths of untold numbers of innocents and sacrifcing thousands of US servicemen.

Now tell me how it proves he was behind 9/11:-?. I'm waiting.

7. As the insurgency developsand increases [goes on to elaborate on torture, failure to control Iraq, and so onLook, we already estabilished they're incompetent. Now prove they were behind 9/11.

8. [more of the sameEr, 9/11?

No. Wait a minute. You forgot Bush invaded Iraq for the sole purpose to steal their oil and enrich his friends at halliburton. I think that's how it goes. Pretty much.
Downing Street Memo (http://www.google.no/search?source=ig&hl=no&q=Downing+street+memo&btnG=Google-s%C3%B8k&meta=). Condensed form (http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html).
Ritter's reports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter#Weapons_inspector). <- He's worth reading up on. Really. He was in charge of finding WMDs in Iraq, and his own reports fly in the face of everything reported by FAUX News and the GOP.

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3526/9401822240x240frontoe8.jpgThere's what I love about the US. The civil debates. The way leftists and rightists get along and debate maturely instead of resorting to bigotted insults and generalizations.

Oh, and a side note: Bronze age religion and modern-day politics... don't go very well together. Bronze-age bigotry ('heathen') and modern-day societies don't go well together either.

At least I can vote.Wow:up:.

I am a Republican because I don't agree with the Dems policy of raising taxes to provide funds for welfare and other give aways.Let me try to be civil here:

The US is fighting a war. Wars cost (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/www.costofwar.com)money (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/www.costofwar.com). Without money, the troops don't get supplies, weapons, and machinery needed to fight. Without money, they drive around in Baghdad in Humvees armoured with plywood and communicate with Motorolas - litterally. Without money, they don't secure Iraq.

You can't lower taxes during wartime when your country is already in a deficit. This is why Dubya is taking flak - not becuase he's not giving people enough welfare, but because he's lowering the taxes of those who don't need tax cuts so that he can gain voters among the rich.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1508/3560741458113bm1.jpgI, and many others I know, have been greatly helped by welfare systems, and beg to differ. Welfare gets you back up on your feet, and provides for you until you can provide for yourself. Though, of course, the volunteering spirit of the USA is nothing short of a shining, outstanding example for the rest of the world to follow, and the European countries need to pick up on it.

Oh, and Avon Lady? Sweden stills ranks as number 5 on the HDI list. Above the USA. Norways ranks as number 1. Iceland ranks as number 2. The US is all the way down at 8. The HDI is measured in:
A long and healthy life, as measured by life expectancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy) at birth.
Knowledge, as measured by the adult literacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy) rate (with two-thirds weight) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_enrollment_ratio) (with one-third weight).
A decent standard of living, as measured by the log of gross domestic product (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) (GDP) per capita at purchasing power parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity) (PPP) in USD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar).The evil leftists have catapulted Norway and Sweden into a third world state of long, healthy lives, knowledge and litteracy rates, and high standards of living. Can I move to Israel:cry:?

[robbo180265]

OMG it's off again:o

[joea]

Geeez Safekeeper, did you notice when this thread started why drag it up again???

[Heibges]

The only "conspiracy" is why didn't the American Airline Industry use the same procedures that El Al has used for 30 years regarding cockpit security.

[The Avon Lady]

The only "conspiracy" is why didn't the American Airline Industry use the same procedures that El Al has used for 30 years regarding cockpit security.
The procedures start at pre-check-in. In its most elementary form, it's called profiling, although there's much more added to that.

If they're on the plane, there's a good chance you're too late.

[joea]

If they're on the plane, there's a good chance you're too late.

Indeed. :yep:

[The Avon Lady]

Do you dare visit 429thruth.com (http://www.429truth.com/)? :o

Hat tip: Fark.com (http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2772159). :rotfl: Enjoy the pic parodies. :rotfl: