SUBMAN vs Skybird - Round 2

[TteFAboB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFIQ-7TxMw

Well, Skybird can take some shots and deflect them like a Jedi. SUBMAN can just keep firing, though his mobility is very poor given the size and weight of his gun. Look at Skybird's temper, however: cold, firm and unshocked by the heavy fire just like a brick wall -> :damn: That's SUBMAN's head banging on it.

...

Is this video real? Poor sword! :cry:

EDIT: This sword survived, I guess that's why they went for the 50 cal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ftIPiziWs

[Yahoshua]

It's real.

[Skybird]

I haven't heared of something like this being done before, but have no problem to believe it is real, since I own both an industrially-manufactured modern and an old, ancient Katana myself. I feel a bit nervous whenever I clean the blade especially of the latter and need to move my fingertips close to the sharp edge - for you do not feel when you hurt yourself with it, that sharp it is, not before several seconds passed by. A surgeon's scalpel is like made of rubber, compared to it.

Actually, a Katana nevertheless is easy to brake when handling it inadequately, and handling a Katana is difficult and needs more physical power in arms, shoulders and chest than it appears to be when watching some movie scenes. You can bend it when hitting a tree with the broad side, or brake it when hitting a hard object and the blade not exactly adjusted to hit in a 90° angle. One Katana can brake another one when the strike is blocked not with the backside of the blade, but the broadside. I know by my own eyes that these blades, at least the old, hand-crafted ones, can cut deep into blocks of metal - without the sharp edge suffering a nick (?). Modern technology and science so far has proven unable to create blades of the quality old ancient swords can have.

A very astonishing item a well-manufactured Katana is, and therefore old masteroieces can be very expensive, but it needs constant care, seen that way it is an obligation to own a real Katana, like owning a pet that must be feeded and taken care of so that it does not become ill. Katanas can rust, if one does not pay attention.

[Wim Libaers]

I know by my own eyes that these blades, at least the old, hand-crafted ones, can cut deep into blocks of metal - without the sharp edge suffering a nick (?). Modern technology and science so far has proven unable to create blades of the quality old ancient swords can have.

Perhaps some overidealisation of the old techniques.

First, some of the methods have been rediscovered, are used, and produce good quality swords. However, with the possible exception of some nanocomposite tricks (involving the vanadium for example), most of the classic techniques were inferior to modern steel. Pattern welding was neve really forgotten, but only used for its artistic qualities after modern steel manufacturing made it mostly obsolete. The special composites can be made again (the technique has been rediscovered) but are expensive and labour-intensive.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/road_to_damascus/sword_forum1.html
http://swordforum.com/summer99/ricfurrer.html
http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_5/advanced/t5_1_1.html

[Skybird]

There are currently only three or four handworking manufactures in Japan, Wim, they all were old when I heared of them several years ago and there even is a 1 hour TV docu about them, and one of them was closing down his business back then, they all are focussing on kitchen knifes for the most, but also making swords. Then I heared of a specialist, native German, here in Germany, in the area were I live, who is expert for recreating swords in chinese forging technique: he currently is forging (or probably has finished) the sword for the king of Buthan - in Buthan they have lost the knowledge of how to do it, too. I do not know much about damascened blades, which are also said to be extremely sharp and special. I do not know how the situation for backsmiths in this field is. Had such a knife in my hands only once, and realized that this is a special kind of blade, too.

Japan produces top class knifes also in mass production. They are good, no doubt. But they do not match a good handmade work of old master blacksmiths, and that is not just about how to create a well-looking Harmon to a Katana's blade.

I have two swords, an acient one, and a modern, industrially manufactured one (the latter costed roughly 10.000 D-Mark in the early 90s, which is not top class for modern Katana prices, but also not the lower price segment, prices for industrial swords range from 300 to 17.000 Euro, i think: 600 - 34.000 D-Mark). Compared to the old blade, very late 16th century or very early 17th century, the modern one is a toy only. The balance is not as good, and the Ha tends to attract corrosion close to the tip if one does not take care of it (and thus is not as hard as it should be due to bad compositon of metals and bad manufacturing, I assume the falting process went somehow wrong and the steel contained too much carbon, decreasing the "structural integrity" of the steel substance and layers it forms). It comes down to this: the old sword can "bite" the new one - but not the other way around.

You must not believe that old master blades are better then modern ones from hitech production, it is okay. Most people do not believe that, for they cannot imagine it, as long as they haven't seen it with their own eyes. I haven't believed myself when I was young and was shown a real sword for the very first time.

Forging in Japan is an almost spiritual act, and declare me crazy: but some of that working attitude is reflected in the overall quality of a blade. Technical knowledge alone is not enough and also cannot replace experience of the blacksmith.

Celebrate: i managed to write this without mixing up the terms iron, steel and stainless steel ! :lol: Usually I do, an old weakness of mine. Produced that kind of error just days agao (again) in another forum :lol:

[SUBMAN1]

You're gonna have to wait till I get back from Florida for me to deal with this one. Beach / Sun / Sand is way more important right now! I'll be here another week. :p

-S

[ASWnut101]

SUBMAN lives in florida too? cool....

[Wim Libaers]

OK, to prevent confusion, my point was:

1. most old swords are made of inferior materials compared to what industrial steel manufacturing produces. (Keeping in mind that modern sword makers can still use different grades of steel forged together)

2. some of the best old swords are better, due to them using better steel and processing it correctly. It is believed that this art was lost because the smiths themselves did not know all factors involved. It required a special trace elements in the ore, impossible to easily distinguish from worse ore with the techniques available at the time. As ore supplies were depleted, the techniques became less useful and were abandoned by most people.

3. the trick to make those superior steels again was rediscovered recently, and a reasonably good processing technique found by trial and error. It is not likely to be used often because, just like the old method, the modern replication is incredibly labour-intensive and requires considerable skill.


For balancing and manufacturing quality, well, I guess most modern manufacturers are just cutting corners, or making swords for decorative purposes only. There may even be legal obstacles in some countries for some weapons (for example, a prohibition on knives that are balanced for throwing).

Stainless steel in swords? It has an advantage for maintenance, but it is always a compromise between mechanical quality and corrosion resistance.

[SUBMAN1]

SUBMAN lives in florida too? cool....

Nope! Just visiting!

-S

[ASWnut101]

oh....:damn: