Dual core compatibility

[Respenus]

OK, I'm writing this post from ym fathers Linux comp as I'm waiting for my neighbour to put together my new comp.

It's gonna be the new Intel 2 DUO E6300 1,866 GHz processor (I know that it's not the best one out there, but remember I need a completetly new motherboard), Gigabyte GeForce 7600 GT (passive cooling) and 2 GB DDII 800 MHz RAM.

Now I want to know if Silent Hunter III in any way works better on the new dual-core machines (too bad it's not a 64bit game :down:). I heard that the new Intel processor works wonders, even with my new "not so best" processor.

I already play the game at full detail, but is there any difference. I'm sure some of you already have dual-core machines and will be able to tell me if there is any difference at all!

[fredbass]

OK, I'm writing this post from ym fathers Linux comp as I'm waiting for my neighbour to put together my new comp.

It's gonna be the new Intel 2 DUO E6300 1,866 GHz processor (I know that it's not the best one out there, but remember I need a completetly new motherboard), Gigabyte GeForce 7600 GT (passive cooling) and 2 GB DDII 800 MHz RAM.

Now I want to know if Silent Hunter III in any way works better on the new dual-core machines (too bad it's not a 64bit game :down:). I heard that the new Intel processor works wonders, even with my new "not so best" processor.

I already play the game at full detail, but is there any difference. I'm sure some of you already have dual-core machines and will be able to tell me if there is any difference at all!

Well I'm not an expert, but the purpose of dual core is that certain programs would run on one core while others run on another at the same time, so the game is run on one while your antivirus is running on another. At least I think that's what is supposed to happen. So to me, if it does what's intended then the answer to your question should be yes, generally speaking. So as I see it, with one core, I am forced to close all other programs while I play to avoid conflicting issues, but by having a second core, you could in theory keep a program open like your AV.

[SteamWake]

I have no problems with one.

[Respenus]

I have no problems with one.

But does the game work any differently. I know that in others high-res games the new cores help, but I'm not sure what will the difference be in SH3.

Well I'm not an expert, but the purpose of dual core is that certain programs would run on one core while others run on another at the same time, so the game is run on one while your antivirus is running on another. At least I think that's what is supposed to happen. So to me, if it does what's intended then the answer to your question should be yes, generally speaking. So as I see it, with one core, I am forced to close all other programs while I play to avoid conflicting issues, but by having a second core, you could in theory keep a program open like your AV.

I'm no expert either, but I belive that dual-core processors don't work that way!

[fredbass]

Well I'm not an expert, but the purpose of dual core is that certain programs would run on one core while others run on another at the same time, so the game is run on one while your antivirus is running on another. At least I think that's what is supposed to happen. So to me, if it does what's intended then the answer to your question should be yes, generally speaking. So as I see it, with one core, I am forced to close all other programs while I play to avoid conflicting issues, but by having a second core, you could in theory keep a program open like your AV.

I'm no expert either, but I belive that dual-core processors don't work that way!

Well maybe we can get an expert to help us out a bit.:help:

[spork542]

Well I'm not an expert, but the purpose of dual core is that certain programs would run on one core while others run on another at the same time, so the game is run on one while your antivirus is running on another. At least I think that's what is supposed to happen. So to me, if it does what's intended then the answer to your question should be yes, generally speaking. So as I see it, with one core, I am forced to close all other programs while I play to avoid conflicting issues, but by having a second core, you could in theory keep a program open like your AV.
I'm no expert either, but I belive that dual-core processors don't work that way!
Well maybe we can get an expert to help us out a bit.:help:
It does work like that.

[CCIP]

My dual-core Pentium IV (3.06GHz) is running the game beautifully. It's not a huge improvement over my previous single-core Athlon, to be honest, but I think there is a certain performance ceiling for the game that I have already hit. Likewise, I have not observed that much difference between 1 and 2GB of RAM.

Does it work with Dual-core processors well? You bet.
Is it worth getting a Dual-core processor? Yes, I think so. But not for SHIII. You won't see much change from a decent non-dual-core machine.

[Henry_pl]

I already play the game at full detail, but is there any difference. I'm sure some of you already have dual-core machines and will be able to tell me if there is any difference at all!

What kind of difference were you expecting ?
FPS is all that can change when you get a new cpu.

If you already play at 100% details.

[Respenus]

What kind of difference were you expecting ?
FPS is all that can change when you get a new cpu.

If you already play at 100% details.

In fact don't really know. That's why I asked. You never know.

Well I get the machine today and then I'll be able to tell you guys if there was any difference at all!

[ecm747x]

Will the dual core help? yes it will. How it will help is split what programs are running on what cpu letting your game have more cpu resorces to work from. Dual core systems are more geared for multi tasking. Having several programs running at once. There is not a lot of software out right now that utilizes the benefits of dual cores but it is comming.
I have an AMD 4800+x2 processor. I play BF2 a lot as well. It helped this game due to taking other programs and running them on the other cpu. That is where your better game play will come in. WIll you get a rise in FPS. Maybe a few but not a whole lot. That comes from the actual speed of the cpu, graphics and bus.

[HanSolo78]

What kind of difference were you expecting ?
FPS is all that can change when you get a new cpu.

If you already play at 100% details.

In fact don't really know. That's why I asked. You never know.

Well I get the machine today and then I'll be able to tell you guys if there was any difference at all!

The core 2 duos have a stronger MHz power perciycle than P4 or Athlon64.
I just bought a dualcore a few weeks ago and I realized that some situation got more FPS! For example the landing at D-day got about 7 to 10 FPS more.
All in all you shouldn´t notice much different but if you try to overclock that cpu you´ll
should see more differents @ 3GHz Core2Duo.

regards
Han

[Respenus]

Well I'm writing this from my new machine (haven't installed SH3 yet).

But I got the picture! I was running the anti-virus programme and played a game at the same time. My old computer would go balistic if I tried to do that. I does help a lot.

I have an AMD 4800+x2 processor.


I was going for the 4200+ X2, but they ran fresh out!

All in all you shouldn´t notice much different but if you try to overclock that cpu you´ll
should see more differents @ 3GHz Core2Duo.


Then I'd need liquid nitrogen cooling for that. Going from 1,866 to 3 GHz is an almost 100% overclock. I really doubt anything would take it. It would probably fall aprt. Plus with this new Core 2 DUO proccesors. you really can't look at it's speed. It outranks Athlon, if you compare processors with similar speeds.

[Henry_pl]

Then I'd need liquid nitrogen cooling for that. Going from 1,866 to 3 GHz is an almost 100% overclock. I really doubt anything would take it. It would probably fall aprt. Plus with this new Core 2 DUO proccesors. you really can't look at it's speed. It outranks Athlon, if you compare processors with similar speeds.

Then you'll be suprised by core 2 processors :lol:

e6300 (1,86 ghz) overclocks without any problems even to 2,8ghz on STOCK cooling (yeah on that pathetic cooler incuded in the BOX version)- when a mobo is not in a case- just on a table with appropriate air flow.
If you can provide good ventilation you may reach similar results in a comp case.

If using better heat sink (ex. scythe ninja) you can reach 3ghz easily.

Read xtremesystems, especially this thread :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106321

And remember that if they write there "prime stable" that means that their system works good with prime95 programme (google it to find out what it is)- other applications, even games, hardly ever use as much CPU resources as p95 does.

[Cdre Gibs]

Ok, I confess, I'm playing SH3 on a PIII 1.2 GHz PC.........DUAL. Yep thats right, a DUAL PIII setup. Now I'm not talking about a 2 in 1 Dual CPU, but 2 Completely independant CPU's. No real different than a Dual core tho. If you dont believe me look up this Intel CPU.

PIII -SM Tualitin 1.2GHz L2/512 FSB133MHz

These are a MP Architech CPU.

Now Technicaly speaking I'm well below Minimum System Spec's as far as a CPU is concerned for SH3. And as for my RAM, well you must be thinking - SDRAM @ 133MHz, it must run like CRAP! Well heres another interesting tid bit, I dont run SDRAM, No Sir, I'm running DDR RAM, yep you heard me right, DDR. On a PIII - He's full of it you must be thinking. Nope, MSI made a wee lil M/Board for the PIII -SM Tualitin CPU's that could handlel DDR RAM and upto 4GB's of it at that! Now I use to have 4GB of 333MHz (clocked back to 266MHz) but after a small run in with a drink spill I'm down to 2GB's. Now remember tho, this is still a PIII M/Board, so my AGP slot is only a 4 x AGP.

So what does all this lead to, well you asked "Would a Dual Core make any difference to SH3". I can answer whole heartedly........YES. And heres the proof, at 40-60FPS depending on conditions (remember this is out of a 4 x APG - PIII set up), my game looks like this.

http://www.git.com.au/~voyager_tek/DawnatSea01.jpg

http://www.git.com.au/~voyager_tek/DawnatSea02.jpg

Not to foul for a 4 year old PC, if I do say so myself!

[Henry_pl]

Gibs- Literally your comp is "dual core"- but today's "dual core" processors mean something slightly different :oops:
Allright you have 2 cores- but the purpose of using 2 cores in 1 processor instead of one is not to "HAVE 2 COREs" but to boost performance :know:
How much L2 memory does those dual PIII have ? 256 or 512 for each processor.
New Core2 duo have 2mb or 4mb L2 cache to share for both cores.
Comparing 2 old processors made to work together with new dual core cpus is useless.
Completely different technology, different architecture etc.
Tuluain- 130 micrometers technology, Conroe- 65 micrometers


But apart from all that-
If you want to buy a (faster/dual core/other brand) CPU- Do not expect ANY other difference than (higher/lower) Frames Per Second and (better/worse) general performance (freezes, choppiness etc.) in ANY game !
CPU is just a kind of calculator which works on basic electrical signals- the only difference between CPUs is HOW FAST they can do calculations.

[tycho102]

It's gonna be the new Intel 2 DUO E6300 1,866 GHz processor (I know that it's not the best one out there, but remember I need a completetly new motherboard),

The game will only use one core of your processor, so you are going to want the absolute fastest core you can afford.

Many, many, many other games will only use one core. You need to prioritize your compents while keeping this in mind. First-Person-Shooters have extremely complex AI and physics engines (the Havoc engine, in particular), and will choke on a slow core.

It's the "drawback" of going dual core. You've got to plan for games that can only use one of them.

[stabiz]

This is correct, and that is why I just bought an AMD Athon 3800+ ... for now.

[Cdre Gibs]

Gibs- Literally your comp is "dual core"- but today's "dual core" processors mean something slightly different

I know, that's why I said NOT 2in1. Mine is Pyshicaly 2 CPU's, and yes it makes a difference.

Allright you have 2 cores- but the purpose of using 2 cores in 1 processor instead of one is not to "HAVE 2 COREs" but to boost performance

Again, I know. Mine, given their age and speed, do cope quite well, in fact if it wasnt for the Dual setup my PC would really struggle. And as you can see by the screen shot, its not to foul at all.

How much L2 memory does those dual PIII have ? 256 or 512 for each processor. New Core2 duo have 2mb or 4mb L2 cache to share for both cores.

They have 512 each.

Comparing 2 old processors made to work together with new dual core cpus is useless. Completely different technology, different architecture etc.

Actually its not, since MP architecture used on 2 single CPU's is not really any different to a single dual core CPU, both require MP enabled boards and MP system files. The only real difference is pyshical, in that 1 system has 2 CPU's with single cores still needing MP architecture to run, as apposed to 1 CPU with 2 cores still needing MP architecture to run. The real difference between my now aging CPU's and todays new Dual Cores, is the Speed and the L2 mem. And there aint that much difference in the speed department but the L2 mem there is. And thats about it. In fact I have been so pleased with what my lil old PIII Dual setup can do (far beyond what it was ever concieved of being able to run) and at times still even today, besting more uptodate systems in what it can handle, that I decided to build a new MP PC. Keeping my new PC in the same design concept, I have used a Dual XEON MT64 Board and placed 2 3.2GHz Xeon MT64 CPU's L2 2mb L3 6mb onboard. The old PIII MB had ATA RAID that I ran Striped. My new MB has SCSI Raid plus SATA RAID as well as standard ATA/IDE. The old 4 x AGP slot will now given way to a PCIEx16 slot and when I can finaly get it the new Vid card will be a xFx GFX7950GX2. With the ability to run 16Gb of DDR2 @ 400Mhz dual channel I think my new PC will see me through another 4-5 years, just like my lil old PIII has. So yes MP PC's do make a difference, what you do with them tho is up to you. :)

PS: Ohh and before you ask, yes I do need that much grunt. When you do as much modding as I and as many models that I have done over the years, its nice to be able to do all this with out sitting there waiting for the PC to catch up.

[Respenus]

:dead::dead::dead:

OK GUYS YOU GOT ME THERE!!!

I honestly don't know what to post as a reply.

Nice work everyone and I thank you very much for your efford.


Then I'd need liquid nitrogen cooling for that. Going from 1,866 to 3 GHz is an almost 100% overclock. I really doubt anything would take it. It would probably fall aprt. Plus with this new Core 2 DUO proccesors. you really can't look at it's speed. It outranks Athlon, if you compare processors with similar speeds.
Then you'll be suprised by core 2 processors :lol:

e6300 (1,86 ghz) overclocks without any problems even to 2,8ghz on STOCK cooling (yeah on that pathetic cooler incuded in the BOX version)- when a mobo is not in a case- just on a table with appropriate air flow.
If you can provide good ventilation you may reach similar results in a comp case.

If using better heat sink (ex. scythe ninja) you can reach 3ghz easily.

Read xtremesystems, especially this thread :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106321

And remember that if they write there "prime stable" that means that their system works good with prime95 programme (google it to find out what it is)- other applications, even games, hardly ever use as much CPU resources as p95 does.

I checked the page! WOW!!! :huh::huh::huh: Going to 3 GHz on the E6300, and the Extreme version was only bumped to 3,7 GHz! When I get some more cash (just spent everything on my new comp and school books (don't you just hate the prices they're giving us these days) I'll buy a good vent and bump it to 3 GHz.

I already have a closed and goodly vented (:oops:) box as I use Silent Pipe II for my Geforce card! So I'll be having an UBER computer in no time!

[Henry_pl]

I'll buy a good vent and bump it to 3 Ghz

Slow down a bit and don't get too excited by what you have seen on xtremesystems ;)

Before you do ANY overclocking- read a lot about it, look for some basic overclocking guides, read topics on xtremesystems etc.

It's really NOT like "yeah, i'll buy a core 2, set FSB to 400 and in a minute i have 2 times better performance" :roll:

Overclocking takes a lot of time- it can take a whole day to get optimal values.
Remember that your aim is not to have as many Mhz as possible- but to get as much STABLE performance as possible- Which means testing each configuration with ex. prime95 for a longer time and checking temps and general stability.
There are many variables that must be changed/monitored: FSB, Vcore, temperature, memory timings...
You'll notice that when you read overclocking guides

Those 3Ghz results are achieved with mobos on a table, with many coolers cooling many parts of a mobo.

There are also parts other than CPU that need to be cooled- mosfets, north bridge, sometimes- ram.


I'll give you my own example- I overclocked 10% my e6300 (form 1866 to 2052, just by increasing FSB) and it reaches even 60 degrees in stress- which is too much for core 2 processors.
I have good case ventilation (rear/back fans, airduct fo cpu cooler)- but still, BOX cooler is too weak for it.
OK, I'll replace it with something better, add another 120mm fan- but still, I'm not expecting to reach extremely high overclocking values .

There is a big difference between extreme overclocking (done to break records) and regular overclocking (done to have a slightly faster system)

[Respenus]

I'll buy a good vent and bump it to 3 Ghz

Slow down a bit and don't get too excited by what you have seen on xtremesystems ;)

Before you do ANY overclocking- read a lot about it, look for some basic overclocking guides, read topics on xtremesystems etc.

It's really NOT like "yeah, i'll buy a core 2, set FSB to 400 and in a minute i have 2 times better performance" :roll:

Overclocking takes a lot of time- it can take a whole day to get optimal values.
Remember that your aim is not to have as many Mhz as possible- but to get as much STABLE performance as possible- Which means testing each configuration with ex. prime95 for a longer time and checking temps and general stability.
There are many variables that must be changed/monitored: FSB, Vcore, temperature, memory timings...
You'll notice that when you read overclocking guides

Those 3Ghz results are achieved with mobos on a table, with many coolers cooling many parts of a mobo.

There are also parts other than CPU that need to be cooled- mosfets, north bridge, sometimes- ram.


I'll give you my own example- I overclocked 10% my e6300 (form 1866 to 2052, just by increasing FSB) and it reaches even 60 degrees in stress- which is too much for core 2 processors.
I have good case ventilation (rear/back fans, airduct fo cpu cooler)- but still, BOX cooler is too weak for it.
OK, I'll replace it with something better, add another 120mm fan- but still, I'm not expecting to reach extremely high overclocking values .

There is a big difference between extreme overclocking (done to break records) and regular overclocking (done to have a slightly faster system)
*
*
*
THX!!! I didn't mean to just go and overclock it in 10 secs. In intented to do it with someone who knows more about computers then I ever will (it's his job).

I have a Gygabite S series motherboard (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2314)
The S series come programes that you can use to safely overclock the processor (inside the OS). It will be a while before I anything like that, but thank you nonetherless for your words of wisdom.

[CruiseTorpedo]

Ok, I confess, I'm playing SH3 on a PIII 1.2 GHz PC.........DUAL. Yep thats right, a DUAL PIII setup. Now I'm not talking about a 2 in 1 Dual CPU, but 2 Completely independant CPU's. No real different than a Dual core tho. If you dont believe me look up this Intel CPU.

PIII -SM Tualitin 1.2GHz L2/512 FSB133MHz


Wow that is too cool! I was a huge fan of the pentium 3s when they came out. They were so stable and fast! Reminded me of the jump from 486 to pentium 1. I always read about the dual core stuff but never bought one because of the huge cost. Do you remember how much all that stuff was when you bought it??

[Respenus]

Ok, I confess, I'm playing SH3 on a PIII 1.2 GHz PC.........DUAL. Yep thats right, a DUAL PIII setup. Now I'm not talking about a 2 in 1 Dual CPU, but 2 Completely independant CPU's. No real different than a Dual core tho. If you dont believe me look up this Intel CPU.

PIII -SM Tualitin 1.2GHz L2/512 FSB133MHz

Wow that is too cool! I was a huge fan of the pentium 3s when they came out. They were so stable and fast! Reminded me of the jump from 486 to pentium 1. I always read about the dual core stuff but never bought one because of the huge cost. Do you remember how much all that stuff was when you bought it??
Well I can tell you that my Gigabyte motherboard, Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 1,866 GHz, Gigabyte GeForce 7600 GT 256MB with passive cooling, a 550W power supply and a new housing (NO HARD DRIVES, ALREADY HAD THEN) was around 1000$ (from my local currency to US dolars).

OK, I might mention I worked hard during the summer to pay the computer (my dad "donated" the CPU and motherboard)!

[tycho102]

Having a "dual core" machine, and having a machine that has two seperate processor sockets isn't all that much different, from a gaming standpoint.

The socket-940 Opteron boards generally have seperate memory slots for each processor. This allows a NUMA-aware operating system to divvy up the memory according to each processor's process. This means that the main bus isn't being used as much. Very, very helpful when you're running virtualized servers. The dual-core socket AM2/939 processors are missing a memory controller. This allows them to use unbuffered memory, as opposed to registered memory. It used to be that the socket 940 boards had the advantage of PCI-X slots. This is completely moot now that PCIe 8/12/16 channel raid cards have appeared on the market.

So, there is a difference between dual-core flip chips, and a pair of single-core flip chips. As a gamer, the dual-core route is better in every possible way. It's cheaper, and for the games that are actually multi-threaded, you will receive the full benefit of having two physical processors. You will even receive a small boost in the games that are serial threaded, because all the system calls can be handled by the second processor.

[SubSerpent]

My core 2 duo E6600 2.4Ghz runs perfect with tons of extra frames even in heavy ports. I have 2GB of XtremeRAM DDR2 also which also helps and a 7900GT 512MB GDDR3 vid card - plays all my games with highest level graphics and minimum to no lag in all games depending on what it is. I get a tiny bit of lag in thick forest areas in Oblivion with everything maxed out. Hope that explains how poweful this beasts is! ;)

[Cdre Gibs]

Wow that is too cool! I was a huge fan of the pentium 3s when they came out. They were so stable and fast! Reminded me of the jump from 486 to pentium 1. I always read about the dual core stuff but never bought one because of the huge cost. Do you remember how much all that stuff was when you bought it??

Yep, an funny enough they were a tad more than the Xeons I just bought a few weeks ago!
I paid $1031:80AU for my 2 Xeons - the 2 PIII -SM's I paid $1040:60AU some 4 years ago!!!! The worst part is that the PIII's had to be a matched pair, so I couldn't buy 1 at a time. Nope, It had to be both at once. The Xeons dont have to be a matched pair, but I decided to get them both at the same time anyway.

My PIII rig is/was an entry level server in reality. The new Dual Xeon is the same, just a tad more powerfull. :)

[SubSerpent]

Here's a video blog from user of Gamespot that just upgraded to the E6300 1.8ghz core 2 duo. He's overclocked it to 2.8Ghz :o and still has room for more! I have the 2.4 E6600 version. Wonder if I can overclock mine to 4.5 Ghz and still have room to go? :hmm: :hmm: Better not. I'm happy with the stock speed right now. Perhaps if applications really demand more processor speed will I attempt such a thing, and I probably won't go any higher than 3.6Ghz just to be safe!

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/video_player.php?user=jediskilz173&id=Kn0wljHx5bsLvjPa

[Steeltrap]

Bear in mind the RAM and, especially, video card are both vital as well.

If a game is heavy on graphics, you can get a good boost in performance simply by having more RAM and a better graphics card without any change to your CPU.

A primary issue is where/how the various system demands of a programme are handled.

It's true that not much is taking advantage of dual core technology to the extent that is possible, just as the same applies for dual SLI graphics. That's why there are still single cards available that are more effective than dual SLI.

I'm getting a new rig which includes a new ATI Radeon graphics card
(ATI Radeon X1950 XTX, 512Mb, GDDR4)....will outperform SLI cards on games currently available.

[nikimcbee]

Bear in mind the RAM and, especially, video card are both vital as well.

If a game is heavy on graphics, you can get a good boost in performance simply by having more RAM and a better graphics card without any change to your CPU.


:know: Amen to that. My Athlon 2400 XP still holds its own. When I upgraged my RAM, it's performance change was like night and day. I don't plan on buying a new computer til next year anyway.

[Jusa_Finn]

According to my experience adding ram above 1 GB doesn’t increase fps.

Processor speed and graphics card make the difference.

I upgraded AMD Athlon 3200+, Ati x800 Pro and 2 Gb of memory to
AMD Athlon 64 x2 4600+, Ati Radeon x1900XT, 2GB and that increased fps about 50 percent.

[CruiseTorpedo]

[Yep, an funny enough they were a tad more than the Xeons I just bought a few weeks ago!
I paid $1031:80AU for my 2 Xeons - the 2 PIII -SM's I paid $1040:60AU some 4 years ago!!!! The worst part is that the PIII's had to be a matched pair, so I couldn't buy 1 at a time. Nope, It had to be both at once. The Xeons dont have to be a matched pair, but I decided to get them both at the same time anyway.

My PIII rig is/was an entry level server in reality. The new Dual Xeon is the same, just a tad more powerfull. :)

That's awesome! Sounds like you dont want to sit around watching the hour glass on your PC!! Me love big fat fast cpus.. Mmmmmm cpus...

[Cdre Gibs]

Just out of idle curiosity, how many Processor's do you all have in your PC's. I'm refering to all Processor Units, be they the CPU, GPU, APU ect. I have 5 PU's in my PIII rig, the Xeon rig, when done, will have 6 (cant wait for the day when I hit the ON button to this baby).

[Rcsubs]

Hello Group,

I was at wal-mart shopping and picked up the game Silent Hunter III and I was going to buy the game but decided not to buy the game, why I am not sure however to day I visited UBI website and read the info for their download of the game and after reading about the game I am glad that I did not buy the game because of a software protection warning they posted.

I will never buy any software with protection software that causes problems with my computer. And if their download contains StarForce I do not want anything to do with it, from what I have read about software like Starforce, their software protection software insured one thing, a loss in sales................................

Darrell
http://www.againsttcpa.com

[CruiseTorpedo]

Just out of idle curiosity, how many Processor's do you all have in your PC's.

I dont know, just have the standard pentium 4 system with an agp video card. Whatever that adds up to is what's under the hood. I assume most people use a similar system to mine, just a single cpu unless they own a more up to date computer with either the x2 amd or dual core intel.

[Rcsubs]

Hello,

My system has a Pent4 and a ATI Radeon Pro 256mb, however I have ordered a new graphics card a VGA|3D FUZION 3DFR66256 6600 AGP, I have had nothing but trouble from my ATI card, every card that I have purchased before has been ATI and this card has caused more problems that I care to think about.
I tried the ATI tech help and I can say for sure they DO NOT have any tech help.:down:
I recently downloaded some old drivers and removed the new drivers from my system, the card performance has been ok since the older driver installation, however it has a big problem with the PA RC4 high res install, needless to say the card has not performed as it should and I am not sure a different set of drivers will help, however if someone has a suggestion about another driver to try let me know.

Thank you for your time and help,
Darrell

[Cdre Gibs]

Whats considered as a Processor are:
CPU - Centeral Processor Unit
GPU - Graphic Processor Unit
APU - Audio Processor Unit

Most PC's have just 1 of each type listed above, but as has been pointed out the new dual core's or like my PC a Dual CPU install account for 1 more. That would give a total of either 3 (standard) or 4 (Dual's of whatever type). So how do I get 5 you must be thinking. Well there is 1 more type and I have that installed.

PPU - PhysX Processor Unit.

So now we have 5 Processor Unit's. :)

My PIII
CPU - 2 x PIII-SM 1.266GHz L2@512
GPU - 1 x xFx GFX7800GT 256DDR3
APU - 1 x SB Audigy 2
PPU - 1 x Ageia BFG PhysX PCI

My Xeon
CPU - 2 x Xeon 3.2GHz L2@2mb L3@6mb MT64
GPU - 2 (1 x xFx GFX7950GX2 1GBDDR3)
APU - 1 x SB X-Fi Fatal1ty - Xtreme Fidelity Pro Gamers
PPU - 1 x Ageia BFG PhysX PCIX

I can just here you now "WTH is a PPU and WTF does it do!"
In a nutshell - Its a small stand alone PC of sorts, and all that it does is calculate ALL of a game's Physical Enviromental Elements. What happens is that instead of the CPU having to not only run the OS, run the network (online play), orchastrate the game, run the AI and calculate all of a games physic's, the PPU takes over all of the games physic's and applies a complex set of mathamatics to produce a Real Life Physical Enviroment. This is 1 of the most CPU intensive appliations of any game, now suddenly all removed from the CPU's work load. The finished physic's are then passed over to your GPU for rendering and the GPU does NOT now have to work out HOW to render it. It doesn't take a much to see how this would improve any games performance.

I must warn you tho, the PhysX Card is mainly ment for games that are PhysX's enabled, SHIII is of course not. BUT even tho you will be told by the sales guy that it wont do didly to a non PhysX enable game, hes wrong. The PhysX card WILL make a difference to ANY game. The most obvious 1 straight up is how much Smoother a game runs. Now with that statement you'd expect that you would recieve a massive FPS boost, well you dont. You do get some but thats not what the card's about, its about relieving the CPU of its overhead and freeing up resources. Of providing Enhanced Partical Effects to reflect Real World Physic's.

The PhysX Processor Unit is made by Ageia and is enbedded into 2 card only made by either BFG or ASUS. I have the BFG card and at a cost of $489:00AU I'm very glad that I bought 1.

I'd recommend that before you consider buying 1, got to Ageia and take a peek at what this thing can do.

LINKAgeia PhysX (http://www.ageia.com/about/index.html)

Enjoy.

[CruiseTorpedo]

Everything I've heard about the agia card is that it doesnt help enough to be worth the high cost. They could be wrong though, everyone told me getting a faster hard drive wouldnt do squat either and it definitely helped! If Oleg's new flight sim coming out supports the physics card though it could be worth it. In those flight sims everything you can do to help the cpu out is a big help. I'm drooling just thinking about how many planes can be flying over london right now in a big raid with a PC like yours.. You must buy Battle for Britain when it's released!

[Cdre Gibs]

That would be the fact that not many games are PhysX enabled so ppl dont really understand what it does. Its not just about making the game run faster or even smoother, thats just a side effect. Its about how ALL of a games Physics behave. Case in Point, Ragdoll - this is how a 3d model of a animated body behave in a game, how it falls down, how it moves how REAL it looks, now in 99.99% of games this is a SCRIPTED Physical animation that has only so many LIMITED results when its shot, blown up, burnt, hit, bumped, droped ect ect. Now do the same with a PhysX enabled game and the Ragdoll is subject to TRUE real world physic's. That means that if its shot at it reacts to the impact Correctly to the amount of force its received, the direction of that force, the size of the projectile, the surface that the ragdoll hits, at what angle it hits it at, the weight of the ragdoll at the time of impact, the speed of the ragdoll at time of impact, the direction of travel of the ragdoll at impact. In other word all the Physic's of the real world are imparted INTO your game, so now no 2 actions/reactions are ever the same.

Say you blow up a fuel truck in a normal game, big bang a few bits of shrapnel for eye candy and thats about it. Do the same with a PhysX enabled game and all those bits of shrapnel are now Leathal, fly at the right speed, direction, BOUNCE off surfaces that real world Physic's would determine it should.

And as for your system :
Benchmark 3DMark 2003 on the PIII without the PhysX card - 8237
Benchmark 3DMark 2003 on the PIII with the PhysX card - 12622

Benchmark 3DMark 2006 on the PIII without the PhysX card - 200
Benchmark 3DMark 2006 on the PIII with the PhysX card - 3478

I'd say its worth it. :)

[CruiseTorpedo]

I thought the game still needed to be programed to allow for shrapnel and extra physics before the agia card could do any good. I dont see how it magically enables all that stuff. Is the programming already in the game engine but it's just not enabled till it sees an agia card in your system?

ps: those are amazing score improvements! I'm just not realizing how all this extra stuff will suddenly happen by plugging in the card.

[Steeltrap]

I'm running this:

AMD® Athlon™ 64 FX-62 (2.8GHz) Dual Core Processor, Socket AM2 - 2 x 1Gb L2 Cache

2Gb DDR2 PC5300 at 667Mhz (2 x 1GB)

ATI Radeon® X1950 XTX, 512Mb, GDDR4

Samsung 204B 20.1" LCD, Black - 1600 x 1200, 5ms

Seems to do the trick.....

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Cdre Gibs]

I thought the game still needed to be programed to allow for shrapnel and extra physics before the agia card could do any good. I dont see how it magically enables all that stuff. Is the programming already in the game engine but it's just not enabled till it sees an agia card in your system?

ps: those are amazing score improvements! I'm just not realizing how all this extra stuff will suddenly happen by plugging in the card.

Read the post again matey, you will see the term "PhysX enabled" before the parts about the extra bits. But having said that I do get more effects rendered in NON PhysX enabled games than I ever did before. The PhysX card has the ability to expand on whats in game already, not to the same effect as a game that been written with the PhysX card in mind, but it still will improve on the games SCRIPTED physic's. Ok every game has some sort of game world physic's already SCRIPTED into a game, these will always behave the same each and every time they are called by the games programing, now when a PhysX card is added to the mix, it takes these SCRIPTED Physic's and Builds on them - expands on them. Now in a game that been PhysX enabled this will have been written in such away that its no longer SCRIPTED. Each game world physic's is now determined by the PhysX engine on the card so its now entirley different for each game physic's thats called by the games programing and these effect are determined by Real World Mathamatical physic's to determine how each effect looks, takes shape, performs, what it will effect.

[Rcsubs]

Hi CDre Gibs,

I have been reading your post that you are making about the Physics cards and I ran a search for the AGIA and check out the product, it looks very impressive and I would like to have a card that would perform like that, there is just one problem I just bought a new graphics card and installed it yesterday, I do not think the wife would understand wanting to buy another card.
Do you know if the AGIA drivers would work on a pc that does not have an AGIA card???:hmm: I know it is a stupid question, but thought that I would ask any way...

Darrell

[Cdre Gibs]

Well you could try loading the drivers, but without the card and the relivante PhysX engine there in, it be pointless I'm sorry to say. I can understand the issue regards the money side of things, for a card that just sits in your PC that you dont plug anything else into but to all intents LOOKS like a graphics card - $400 odd dollars AU is a lot of money, for what to some may seem like a waste but in truth is not. BUT heres the thing, more and more games will slowly become PhysX enabled, this means that hopefuly the price will come down relitive to the power of the card going up. So yeah I'm 1 of the first few through the door, so I'm paying for it. But when its all said and done I'm glad that I did, an so is my PC. :)

[CruiseTorpedo]

Thanks for the explanation Gibs, could you do something for me though? If you have IL2 pacific fighters can you run the black death recorded track and let me know what your avg fps number is? I'm curious how IL2 reacts to this card.

[Cdre Gibs]

Sorry matey, I dont have IL2 pacific fighters, so no can do. Flight Sim are not really my cup of tea, planes are an un-natural act ! ;)

In fact ask either Pants or Kpt Lehmann how great I am in a Flight Sim game (read I SUCK big time :lol: )

[Pants]

You're not that bad mate *Cough* *Cough*
Yup he gets bored very easierly...dont fly with him in a tail turret, He'll shoot your tail off :rotfl:

[Cdre Gibs]

Gess I'm a dill, I do have PF, I just didnt realise its IL2 PF ! :lol:

But no "Black Death" recorded track. Um not real sure if I should have that or not, as I have the stand alone version of PF.Ohh and just to show you how much I play PF, ummm how do I get FPS to show up during those Recorded play backs ?

[CruiseTorpedo]

To show FPS in PF just hit the ~ key while flying then type in:

fps START SHOW

and it's case sensitive so you have to type it in exactly as I showed ya. Least I think that's how you do it, it's also been a little while for me. I've been so busy with work and family I havent had time to fly for months. Just run some of the tracks and let me know if you dont mind!

Here's how to turn it off to reset it so you get fresh numbers for each different track you play:

fps STOP HIDE

[CruiseTorpedo]

You're not that bad mate *Cough* *Cough*
Yup he gets bored very easierly...dont fly with him in a tail turret, He'll shoot your tail off :rotfl:

lol I've done that many times as well, tail gunning is boring. I think the late war fighters are so popular online is simply because they're so fast and there's less time waiting to get into a fight. Plus everyone wants to fly the best variant of their fighter possible. I enjoy flying the fighters a lot, early or late doesnt matter. Cant wait for the next sim by Oleg: Battle for Britain! Some of the screen shots have looked a bit disapointing though, but even if it comes out looking how it does in the pics the new features will make up for it I'm sure! Such as:

- Setup your ammo belt loadouts how ever you want, like AP, AP, HE (can finally remove the tracer ammo)
- Supposedly loads of planes in the air at once (although we'll see, keeping my fingers crossed it's true)
- Much larger maps
- Longer visibility distance so the world looks like earth from 40,000ft not a fish bowl

More stuff but those are the big ones to me!