U.S. military can do little to secure region in western Iraq

[bradclark1]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

[Kapitan]

Now had the americans gone about it this way none of this would have happend:

They should have left Saddam Hussien alone to run the country after all he is now what in his 70's chances are he is going to die sometime within the next few years because of health issues.

If they had left him to run till he died then when he did die the country would fall into anarchy and who comes to the rescue but britian and america, riding along baghdad streets peace keeping and setting up democracy.

If they had gone about it this way instead of invading in 2003 i think the following would have happend.

1) There wouldnt have been a war anyway
2) The peace keeping forces would have been accepted from every nation in the UN
3) The votes would have turned out alot diffrent
4) Both Blair and Bush would have gained popularity instead of being black sheep
5) Public opinion would be more in favour of helping to peace keep then war.
6) Seacret service could have kept thier nose's in joint

Thats just for starters.

[The Avon Lady]

Here's some more mind slipping (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013084.php).

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6515/ahmadinejacketiraq1ak4.jpg

[Skybird]

Time to get out of there. I keep saying that since - wowh, THAT long...? :-?

This should become a credo: "No GI's life for helping to install and strengthen Iranian theocracy in Iran and Iraq." Politicians are selfish, they are cynical, they are suffering from pathologic loss of sense for reality, and they are cowards. They will keep on sacrificing their own men just to avoid to admit that they made misjudgements, messed it up, don't know any realistic way out. They pick some hopeful, wishful thinking, wrap it into some tough-.sounding catch-phrases, spice it up with some patriotic slogans - and the mob on the street is buying it.

Who is the greater fool: the fool in lead, or the fool following him?

[SkvyWvr]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.

[Skybird]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.
According to Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, yes.

Concerning Brad, he did not command in his posting. He just legitimately thinks.

[SUBMAN1]

I have to agree. The amount of troops needs to be increased. Fix the problem already. Yes, Rumsfield proved that a small lighting fast force can take over a country using superior technology, but to hold that country, you then need a much larger force!

Just my 2 cents.

-S

[SkvyWvr]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.
According to Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, yes.

Concerning Brad, he did not command in his posting. He just legitimately thinks.

And because I think differently, it's wrong?

[fredbass]

This news isn't really a surprise. Hell, we've been there 3-1/2 years now and the job isn't done yet. duhhh.

I say bring back the draft temporarily so we can beef up our military numbers to get the job done and then we can leave that pig pen.

[Skybird]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.
According to Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, yes.

Concerning Brad, he did not command in his posting. He just legitimately thinks.

And because I think differently, it's wrong?

Who knows what you are thinking? Wou did not express any thoughts on the topic. Only a lame stab at Brad. That he pointed at something that you did not like to be expressed is my interpretation. But I think I interpreted it right. Else you wouldn't have had a reason to make that comment.

[SkvyWvr]

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14757615/
That area is about 1/3 of Iraq. Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
I guess this slipped Bush's and Cheney's mind.

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.
According to Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld, yes.

Concerning Brad, he did not command in his posting. He just legitimately thinks.

And because I think differently, it's wrong?

Who knows what you are thinking? Wou did not express any thoughts on the topic. Only a lame stab at Brad. That he pointed at something that you did not like to be expressed is my interpretation. But I think I interpreted it right. Else you wouldn't have had a reason to make that comment.

I thought my opinion was clear. Short pehaps but clear none the less.

[The Avon Lady]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)

[SkvyWvr]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)

He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.

[The Avon Lady]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)
He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.
So, now what do you think of Brad's original post?

Should we pump 10s of 1000s more troops into Iraq or get out of their way? :hmm:

[SkvyWvr]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)
He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.
So, now what do you think of Brad's original post?

Should we pump 10s of 1000s more troops into Iraq or get out of their way? :hmm:

I think we should throw as many troops into it as we can. Isolate the country and exterminate the terrorists. Unfortunately many Americans don't have the stomach for this yet. I say yet because I believe we will be hit again and hard. Then maybe America will wakeup and realize that this is a war of survival, much like what Israel has had to face alone for so long. IMO the only way to win this is to be ruthless.

[The Avon Lady]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)
He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.
So, now what do you think of Brad's original post?

Should we pump 10s of 1000s more troops into Iraq or get out of their way? :hmm:

I think we should throw as many troops into it as we can. Isolate the country and exterminate the terrorists. Unfortunately many Americans don't have the stomach for this yet. I say yet because I believe we will be hit again and hard. Then maybe America will wakeup and realize that this is a war of survival, much like what Israel has had to face alone for so long. IMO the only way to win this is to be ruthless.
Identify the enemy.

[SkvyWvr]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)
He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.
So, now what do you think of Brad's original post?

Should we pump 10s of 1000s more troops into Iraq or get out of their way? :hmm:

I think we should throw as many troops into it as we can. Isolate the country and exterminate the terrorists. Unfortunately many Americans don't have the stomach for this yet. I say yet because I believe we will be hit again and hard. Then maybe America will wakeup and realize that this is a war of survival, much like what Israel has had to face alone for so long. IMO the only way to win this is to be ruthless.
Identify the enemy.
Anyone possessing a weapon. I do understand what you are saying. These are problems your country has had to deal with all along.

[Iceman]

JihadWatch's Hugh FitzGerald: What did you think of the Iran-Iraq War? (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013086.php)
He has a good point. We should have armed them both and let the kill each other off.
So, now what do you think of Brad's original post?

Should we pump 10s of 1000s more troops into Iraq or get out of their way? :hmm:

I think we should throw as many troops into it as we can. Isolate the country and exterminate the terrorists. Unfortunately many Americans don't have the stomach for this yet. I say yet because I believe we will be hit again and hard. Then maybe America will wakeup and realize that this is a war of survival, much like what Israel has had to face alone for so long. IMO the only way to win this is to be ruthless.

You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us.

The horror... the horror...

War (http://www.cyberallies.com/sitefiles/war1.swf)...

[Skybird]

discussing morals is for peacetime. decide on moral legitimacy before you declare war. War is the absence of moral and order. that is it's nature, so do not complain. Once you declared war, leave morals out of it.

Iraq has not been the threat it was said to be (WMDs, terror, aggressive expansion) as an excuse for attacking it. It has not been the great supporter of international terrorism. No WMDs had been found. It's military power was broken. Our attack has turned it into exactly that terror threat. We made a lying prophecy - and fulfilled it by our own deeds. We got what we deserved by our lying.

Options: destroy Iraq completely and kill all males age 15-55, or pull out, and invest the freed ressources in Afghanistan to save what there is left to save (which is not much, I think). It's not a decision on the basis of morals, but a decision basing on what you want: an theocratic Iraq under masisve Iranian influence, supporting international terror, then let it live, or you want it not: then annihilate it. There is nothing to win anymore. Only question is how much the loss will be. If we let it live, the big winner will be: Iran, and Shia theocracy. we then must decide if we can and want to live with it. Again, no question of morals that is.

Only alternative is a longterm strategy that cuts off some long-held political paradigms. The key issue is oil. You cannot fight Islam (that's what you need to do when wanting to fight "terror") and at the same time be hopelessly dependant on Muslim oil. They are in the stronger position, strategically. We need to change that before we can strike at terror factions with all our might. Currently, our dependency dictates us to take into account too many considerations of Muslim interests, for they are feeding us with oil - and can stop to do so. they have the hand on the control buttons of our economies and finances. Oil crisis in the early 70s should have taught us a lesson, but we refused to learn. Stupid we are. As long as we are depending on Muslim oil, we are helpless against Islamic terror, and are loosing.

the whole longterm perpective of the West and especially America towards the Me, the Gulf and Afghnaistan, has been a massive strategical misplanning, born from arrogance, lacking understanding of what Islam is, and lakcing knowledge of people's mentality in these regions. The nature of the enemy is not correctly identified. That's why we are loosing Iraq and Afghanistan, and also loose more and more options for acting in general.

[bradclark1]

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.

Yes it is. It makes it easier to see the screw-ups

[SkvyWvr]

It sure is easy to command from the comfort of your livingroom.

Yes it is. It makes it easier to see the screw-ups

And comfortable too.

[The Avon Lady]

discussing morals is for peacetime. decide on moral legitimacy before you declare war. War is the absence of moral and order. that is it's nature, so do not complain. Once you declared war, leave morals out of it.
A little bit louder, please (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/09/out_of_respect.html). :nope:

[tycho102]

Somewhere else I read that it would take fifty to sixty thousand more troops to secure the area.
There's 38,000 troops in South Korea. The young-adult population (18-25) don't want us there, I don't want us there. Rotate them through Iraq.

There's another 10,000 in Germany. Germans don't want us there, I don't want us there. Get the hell out of Germany.

Same goes for Italy and Spain. Get the F. out. I forget, but there's something like another 10,000 between those two (mostly Navy, so they don't really count -- but get the F. out, just the same).

A bunch in Bosnia with NATO. And some more in Britain. There's gotta be 10-15k infantry between those two camps. Rotate them through Iraq.

A bunch of Marines in Japan. They hate our arses, too, so get them right the heck out. Last time I looked, it was something like 8000.


*********** All this should have been done back in March of 2003. *********

[bradclark1]

And comfortable too.

Yes. A nice side effect.