Help me put my thoughts down on torpedos and navigation

[Immacolata]

One of the best inventions for SH3 was Jiims et. al.'s rulers and other utilities useful for plotting targets with manual targetting. However I felt that the experience of plotting manually could have been enhanced if the SH3 engine had allowed for it. But I cannot exactly put into a somewhat coherent description what it is I am lacking.

It all revolves around the key gameplay experience in SH3: the stalking of the prey, the preparation for attack, the actual attack and then the evasion. I felt that the stalking part is one of the most exhilerating. Keeping track of targets, plotting their movements, determining their course and their speed. This was somewhat problematic in SH3 due to the too-powerful God's Eye and the alternative, the almost impossible to use no map updates at all.

When plotting manually I found that I really missed an officer function "plot bearing and distance to chart" so that I could faster keep track of my targets. That is just one of the parts I found a bit annoying. What is it that Sh3 lacked for manual solution making (still computer assisted) to work better ?

[_Seth_]

Lets hope SHIV implements that.

[Safe-Keeper]

For the lower realisms, what if you could place ship icons on the map and define what they were and how fast they travelled? For example, if you hear a sonar contact and find out it's a T-2, travelling at 6 knots due east, you can place an icon, change it to "Hostile", and define it as a T-2 travelling east-wards at 6 knots. There you go, an icon on the map as if you were travelling on the surface.

For higher realisms, I have no clue.

[finchOU]

I, for one, liked the idea of all manual solutions. It is not impossible to track contacts in the no map update mode. The annoying part was the instant ranging from the watch officer...which made plotting super easy. Finding the range accurately on the other hand I found to be one of the hardest parts of SH3. To do actual manual plotting required one to do 4 things at once: Hit the stop watch, take a range, take a bearing, and mark present position on the map. A command function to help out would be great....like a mark function that would have a crew member (at the press of a button) write down the current sensor bearing reading (periscope or UZO), time, and mark pesent position....leaving only range for you to find.

[Dantenoc]

My opinion is that one of the weakest things in SHIII was that you could only get information on the closest contact (i.e. both from the sonarman and the watch officer). But you were completely on your own if you wanted info on a particular ship, which allways struck me as something ackward and silly.

This became an impossible problem when trying to track convoys without the navmap auto-update on, since asking information from your officers on two separate ocations would almost always yield results from TWO DIFFERENT ships, because now the "closest ship" focus had shifted from one ship to the next, making impossible to plot a particular ship's track.

Of course, you could do it yourself 100% on the periscope but then it would feel like your manning a one man sub without any crew to help you at all.

[Threadfin]

Good points in the last two posts. I also want the ability to call 'marks'. In SH3 you had to leave the scope up to generate speeds. I really hope in SH4 the skipper can put the scope up, get a mark. Then put the scope down, wait 5 or 10 minutes, then get another mark.

On US fleet boats they had a 'tracking party'. One guy on the periscope, one on the TDC, another on 'plot', several on sound (more than one type and fore and aft) and another on radar. Each of these stations contributed to the overall picture of the setup, and each could be cross checked against the other. When it all checked you were reasonably certain of a good solution. If the generated bearing of the TDC was the same as your radar or sound bearing the setup was good.

I'm hoping that SH4 will make some progress over SH3 in this direction, to somehow have a functioning team, or at least give us the ability to have this info available as skipper at a glance. I don't want to be forced to man the hydrophone or radar to see if the bearing is the same as the TDC.

Some months ago I made a post with some wishes, and one of the ideas I had was what I called the 'Captain's Eye'. Essentially it would be a screen where all known info was displayed in a 3D format with the player's sub in the center. As objects are sighted and identified, or detected on sound of radar, they would also appear on the Captain's Eye. A healthy fog of war is necessary, I'm thinking sort of how Combat Mission shows things first as a generic icon, then as more becomes known, the object on the map becomes more detailed.

[Immacolata]

Yeah, I guess that is all we need. A bit of AI assistance on "plot to bearing, range" as called out by you when using the scope.

Also it would be nice if you could designate Target 1, Target 2 etc and have the AI crew mark appropriately on the tac map so you can keep tabs on more than one ship.

That and a nomometer and the great ruler tools that was modded in, then it would be settled! Thanks.

[don1reed]

...another point of view...

100% manual to some of us also included navigation and target acquisition...by that I mean we don't use the built-in charts offered by the "sim", instead, we've always used external means (paper & pencil, dividers & parallel rules or a pair of 45-90 triangles, maneuvering boards, etc.) to navigate and plot targets.

...its not that we're old dogs and can't cope with modern tech...its because we're creatures of habit and in our own way, keep to the "KISS" formula and we like the feel of handling nautical tools of the trade. Its like treasuring an old ball glove you had as a kid.

cheers,