Convoy advice please

[kylania]

So I ran into my first convoy tonite, a large one too! After a days of chasing one, and a week of sitting in a spot waiting for others, I came across one directly in my path as I headed home.

The large convoy consisted of 20 ships! 16 merchants and 4 escorts. A Hunt I Destroyer running point, two Flower Corvettes on the port and starboard flanks and a Fiji Light Cruiser inside formation. As far as I could tell the Fiji never got involved in defense, but remained in formation throughout. Two juicy Large tankers formed the core, with a Medium Cargo ahead and a Light Tanker behind.

The conditions were possibly perfect. Low moonlight, calm seas, intercept at 2100. Since the convoy was coming at me I was ahead of it. I read a few threads and decided on a head on surface attack with a surface withdrawal. I got into position aligned about 1km off the Destroyers path between the two port side ranks of the convoy. One Flower Corvette was to my starboard. When the Destroyer got within 2000m I fired a spread of 4 torpedos at a 10 deg spread at the large tankers at a bit of an angle, hoping missed shots would hit anything else. One massively prematurely went off about 500m from me, next to the destroyer, maybe even hit it? Of the others I believe one hit from my crew reaction, but I saw no evident damage. After letting the volley loose I turned hard to starboard and shot past the Flower which was turning towards my last position. It was obvious neither of those escort ships had seen me!

I did a bit of a box move, but got greedy in coming back around. Coming in from their port side, I was seen by the flower corvette which had taken up station again. So I was coming in at about 250 deg to the convoy, 1.5km behind the Flower as it started to turn around. The Hunt I also turned around and beelined right for me. I let loose my two reloaded torps into the training large tanker, and turned and started to run. Aft tube V left a torpedo for the Flower, but I missed.

At first I thought I'd get away again, since I had a big lead on the two escrots, then I noticed the starboard side Flower had also joined and was shooting at me. ALAARRRM!!!! Crash dive, hard to starboard and silent. They spent about an hour depth charging me, but never near me, I was at 120m and never felt a thing, all distant surface drops maybe? After the silence and lost hydrophone contacts I raised to periscope depth and took stock.

Both tankers WERE hit! They were dropping behind now, 6kts compared to the 9kts of the convoy. I surfaced and started to head in, hoping to catch up to them. About 8km behind I noticed a Flower had remained with the two injured ships. Darn! Drop to periscope again and waited a hour or so. Took a look around and they'd finally moved on.

After a while the main group was 20km ahead, one tanker was 14km ahead and the trailing tanker was all alone 8km from me. I flanked in and tried to take out the tankers with my remaining two torps. Both missed or something, both were 359 gyro angle shots on straight line moving slow ships. Argh! Ranges were 3000m and 8000m. One last torpedo was reloaded, I closed to 800m and it hit, but no sinking!

So instead I decided to deck gun it. 20-30 shots later it's nearly underwater but still hasn't sunk. Now the warships are returning, so I dive to 120m again and easily evade. Stay down for 6 hours, check on my ship.. still there. Down for another 8 hours.. still there. Finally 20 hours later I surface and start in with the deck gun again, this time it sinks!!

So 20 ships and I get 1, and only after 20 hours of waiting. :( What did I do wrong?
What ranges and angles should you try to take out a convoy from? Should I have come in from behind at first?

Thanks for any advice or stories anyone can give. :p

[bigboywooly]

So I ran into my first convoy tonite, a large one too! After a days of chasing one, and a week of sitting in a spot waiting for others, I came across one directly in my path as I headed home.

The large convoy consisted of 20 ships! 16 merchants and 4 escorts. A Hunt I Destroyer running point, two Flower Corvettes on the port and starboard flanks and a Fiji Light Cruiser inside formation. As far as I could tell the Fiji never got involved in defense, but remained in formation throughout. Two juicy Large tankers formed the core, with a Medium Cargo ahead and a Light Tanker behind.

The conditions were possibly perfect. Low moonlight, calm seas, intercept at 2100. Since the convoy was coming at me I was ahead of it. I read a few threads and decided on a head on surface attack with a surface withdrawal. I got into position aligned about 1km off the Destroyers path between the two port side ranks of the convoy. One Flower Corvette was to my starboard. When the Destroyer got within 2000m I fired a spread of 4 torpedos at a 10 deg spread at the large tankers at a bit of an angle, hoping missed shots would hit anything else. One massively prematurely went off about 500m from me, next to the destroyer, maybe even hit it? Of the others I believe one hit from my crew reaction, but I saw no evident damage. After letting the volley loose I turned hard to starboard and shot past the Flower which was turning towards my last position. It was obvious neither of those escort ships had seen me!

I did a bit of a box move, but got greedy in coming back around. Coming in from their port side, I was seen by the flower corvette which had taken up station again. So I was coming in at about 250 deg to the convoy, 1.5km behind the Flower as it started to turn around. The Hunt I also turned around and beelined right for me. I let loose my two reloaded torps into the training large tanker, and turned and started to run. Aft tube V left a torpedo for the Flower, but I missed.

At first I thought I'd get away again, since I had a big lead on the two escrots, then I noticed the starboard side Flower had also joined and was shooting at me. ALAARRRM!!!! Crash dive, hard to starboard and silent. They spent about an hour depth charging me, but never near me, I was at 120m and never felt a thing, all distant surface drops maybe? After the silence and lost hydrophone contacts I raised to periscope depth and took stock.

Both tankers WERE hit! They were dropping behind now, 6kts compared to the 9kts of the convoy. I surfaced and started to head in, hoping to catch up to them. About 8km behind I noticed a Flower had remained with the two injured ships. Darn! Drop to periscope again and waited a hour or so. Took a look around and they'd finally moved on.

After a while the main group was 20km ahead, one tanker was 14km ahead and the trailing tanker was all alone 8km from me. I flanked in and tried to take out the tankers with my remaining two torps. Both missed or something, both were 359 gyro angle shots on straight line moving slow ships. Argh! Ranges were 3000m and 8000m. One last torpedo was reloaded, I closed to 800m and it hit, but no sinking!

So instead I decided to deck gun it. 20-30 shots later it's nearly underwater but still hasn't sunk. Now the warships are returning, so I dive to 120m again and easily evade. Stay down for 6 hours, check on my ship.. still there. Down for another 8 hours.. still there. Finally 20 hours later I surface and start in with the deck gun again, this time it sinks!!

So 20 ships and I get 1, and only after 20 hours of waiting. :( What did I do wrong?
What ranges and angles should you try to take out a convoy from? Should I have come in from behind at first?

Thanks for any advice or stories anyone can give. :p

Well sounds like you hurried a lot of things there
Stay calm
If you have to move in a hurry save your torps
Overhaul the convoy if you can and plot a second attack
Personally I prefer to be at PD
I would have let 2 fish go at 1st tanker and then changed course and let the other 2 go at the second - going for a mag shot if a bad angle as sea was calm
Then dived under the convoy - away from where I fired the torps
Dont watch your hits just go
If all the escorts move round to where you were you have a chance to use your stern tubes at another target on the way out the convoy
Normally then I turn away and go deep silent running

Wait til its all clear then take a peep up top
Any stragglers trailing - I follow at a distance and let convoy pull ahead a good distance before attempting DG
As you found out the escorts will come back

Still at least you live to sail another day
Experiance will come in the end :up:

[P_Funk]

Sounds as if your only real mistake was not being as godly as Otto Kretschmer.:p

See usually you don'y sink the whole convoy. Even on noobish auto TDC settings. Many real Kaleuns walked away with only a few sunk. However if it's very early in the war you should be able to use all your torpedoes to good effect. The escorts are usualluy inept and useless.

[HunterICX]

In a Good convoy attack my U-9 VIIC is capable to sink 3 – 4 ships,
And still I might have 3 torps left for my way back home.
Also shooting at chasing DD’s isn’t what you should do, too high chance that u will miss and what is it worth it? Nothing much, stay focused on capital ships. Also you let the Fiji go? I would have keelhauled you for that! The Cruisers that are in the middle of the convoys are rare opportunity that you will ever get the chance of shooting a big battleship unless you like raiding harbours.

I normally do not use Salvo fire with my torps unless it’s a BB (nelson or Revenge)

Tankers have their weak spots, but where it is exactly I cant tell you, because I mostly aim on her Engine compartment and between the 2 control towers and when I,m not looking I hear an big bang.

My U-9 Mess up was about an Taskforce that was going to Gibraltar, I was in an good position to intercept her, what I didn’t noticed that when I knew I was close my Crew fatigue paid its price, I hadn’t changed my crew in the Radio/Sonar compartment so they where very tired so the Sonar guy didn’t do its job, I didn’t noticed until I was in my command room look around on the Navmap and when I asked my Helms officer the depth I heard screws and an KLANG!!! When my sub was stabilized again I looked with my scope and saw the light on of an Revenge that just rammed me:damn: …he spotted my scope and yep….the DD’s went after me…Crash dived to 70 meters and continued to dive till 120 going 1knt I managed to escape and left the TF alone. I was like HOW?! Pressed the Crew Management button and saw that my Sonar guy was too tired to do its job….I still suspect Bernard for putting sleeping pills in the Sonar man’s Coffee…..BERNAARD!!!!!

[Shahed]

Kylania could you please give me some links to the threads you read ? I'd like to read em too.

What you did wrong ? I'm not sure you did anything "wrong" as such. There are things I would have done differently, and here's how it would go:

1. Convoy has been spotted.

IMMEDIATELY send a contact report to BdU !

Watch the convoy carefully. Identify the most valuable targets.
These are, in order of firing solution and targetting priority:

Fiji Light Cruiser: Capital ship ! SINK it INSTANTANEOUSLY!
2 Large Tankers: Sealane interdiction, that's our job. Oil is the highest priority for the enemy's war machine.
1 Small Tanker: Reason as above.
Any Large cargoes or merchants.Medium cargoes may be worth it, but not for my crew. We don't hunt anything less than 5k except Corvettes, Armed Trawlers, and Tramp Steamers, mainly for deck gun practice.

2. Trace the path of each target on tha map using a ruler. Watch the targets moving along the traced lines, are they on them and following them exactly ? Precision is important, as this will determine the intercept angle. Try to make it as close as possible. Know the targets' course and speed (doh?)

3. Observe and trace the lead escort's search patterns, time them, and know if the pattern begins after a specific time interval or is random. If there is a specific time interval, commit it to memory. When you say "Now baby !", the escort should start it's lapdance, on your command !. Make sure the trace on the map is accurate. You will need this to infliltrate the formation. Observe the other escorts, do the same.

4. All this time we are shadowing the convoy, watching it and knowing it's behaviour. Like a lion stalking his prey, we remain unseen and unknown to the enemy. Speed is set that we do not lag the convoy but lead it gently, maintain at least 5.5-6 kms stright line distance from the closest prey, in clear weather, in daytime. AT nightime you can get a LOT closer, but don't. Be patient.

5. Plot intercept course which arriives at the best firing position to fire at primary target, but also allows a possible shot at the secondary (Large Tankers) and tertiary (Small Tanker). This intercept must have it's final waypoint at 90 degrees perpendicular to the course of the Fiji, and must halt the sub maximum 400 meters from the Fiji's path.

6. Change crew ! All hands ! Combat stations ! Flank speed AHEAD ! To intercept course!.

You are now moving for the kill. Stay calm even though your blood should be boiling for the kill. Continue to observe the convoy. Remember the search pattern you timed, say "Yeah Beotch !" and ? ... does she perform when you say so ? Watch that lead escort, and keep checking your planned course for the targets, are they on that traced line ? following it to the degree ? If not, correct as necessary, and correct course as necessary. Watch the crew, you need every man on station at 100% as close to 100% of the time as possible.

I've taken this from an After Action Report by RealJambo @ the ubi forum. This is an excellent example of a perfect infiltration. This man has completed 16 100k patrols IIRC.

The target lines and your intercept should look like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/Theattackcommences2.jpg

Source: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/9121033774

7. Lie in positon in the path of the convoy. Wait till the last possible moment to submerge. When lead escort is 5.5 kms away, dive to periscope depth (I rarely do surface attacks though they are entirely feasible and exceptionally successful in early war, later = radar, surface = death).

Flood all tubes !!! Set your wepaons to impact, magnetic, and set the depths to surface, 2m , 4 m etc of your choice. This is to save you time in case you are ambushed and need to fire in a hurry.

Keep the periscope up and watch that lead escort, make sure she is going to pass right by you, giving you a bow or aft shot 400 meters way as she goes. Do NOT take this shot, unless you absolutely have to. You almost never have to, so.. do not take this shot. It will reveal your location to the world and give away your primary strength: stealth. If stealth has been lost already take the shot and kill her OR if she is turning to you and will detect you, then fire. But you MUST be 100% sure she will detect you. If the chance is 99%, do not fire. Drop the peri and adjust your position running silent, make sure you remain unseen.

8. As she passes, quickly readjust your position to the firing spot. Ideally your firing position position and the initial infiltration position (where you had the possible shot on DD) are identical. Use her blind spots to give a sharp burst to engine power for maximum 10 seconds when necessary. Now you should be in your firing spot.

9. Periscope 1 meter above water. You should be just outside the minimum arming range of your weapons. Keep an eye on the escorts. You want to fire at 90 degree perpendicular to the other targets ALSO, watch them and try guess where they will go on first impact. Quickly aim and practice the attack run with the peri, by now you should have 100% situational awareness.

10. As the Cruiser passes in front, fire tube 1 !! Carefully aimed at the engine room, gyro = close to 0 as can be, surface TII, TIII, if T1 set to slow. You want the most delayed impact so that the other prey are closer to you when the first hit occurs.

11. If the other targets are in the same line but different columns, gyro not more than 355->005, then you have to shoot so that the first salvo hits simultaneous impact. Do not give the enemy time to react. I'm sure this is not the case though, maybe the small tanker is to your rear in the 2nd column from center, or in the other colum ahead of you towards the middle of the column. The large tankers are obviously trailng the cruiser in the same column.

12. Secure from silent running ! Reload TI in tube 1 ! Now you want the faster torpedoes. Do not watch your impact, immediately turn your peri on the following target, if the small tanker is passing behind at 90 degree, Fire ! This one should be a fast one T1. Aim for the Fuel bunker in the small tanker or the engine room. The Cruiser should not survive the first hit, and should be blowing up, you can hear it in the background. If you are not sure you will kill it, fire two in the first shot and reload immediately.

13. The secondary targets are now turning hard port or starboard to avoid the cruiser, before they enter a zigzag. The lead escort is now coming to your firing location. The flank escorts are now weaving through the convoy to your location. Quickly check their distance. Sonarman, follow nearest warship contact. be sure you can see them at all times if possible, always know where they are.

14. Now, you attack has succeded ! Congrats !
You now have a choice:

Press the attack
Escape and evade, resurface away and run in again.15. I'm out of time for now... will update this space in the coming hours.. Till then good luck !

[kylania]

Well, using that great screenshot and tactics as above I ran into a convoy two days ago. I tried a surface attack. I waited between the outter two columns of the convoy about 2500m from the lead escort. Since it was night, he went right past me. Then I started to move in at 1/3 speed to get into position in the middle of the convoy, so I could head on fire at two large cargos and aft fire at another as it passed me behind.

Apparently getting greedy was my downfall. The front line merchants turned their lights on and the starboard rear escort started shooting at me before i was even in place!! I turned into the convoy, sprayed a wild volley hoping for anything, then crash dove under the convoy using their prop sounds to hide and get away. I ended up being depth charged, but only minor damage and it was repaired well. Turns out I'd hit a single large cargo and I finished him off later.

Tonite I found another convoy. I tried something similar, but this time I only went one column deep, ignoring the juicy large cargos in the middle. 24 ships in all. Escort went past me no problem, I moved in at slow, and no one reacted. There was 900m between the columns and I was smack in the middle of it, silent and still. Than the large cargo spins it's search light RIGHT on me and the whole convo starts to turn. I was about 600m away so being hit was a big possibilty!! I even got a "we're being rammed!" message. So I turned into the convoy trying to keep my cool. Luckily their turn matched mine and I let loose ALL my torps. Two into the large cargo in front of me, two more into the trailing medium cargo behind it, and my aft tube into the orginal large cargo that was my primary target and the one that found me. ALL the escorts were on me this time.

They never depth charged tonite, I think they just couldn't find me. I easily evaded them and headed back the way they came. About 11km away I lose all sound contacts and surface. Looking back I see a stopped large cargo!! In the distance TWO smoke trails. One is another large cargo moving at 4kts and the other one is a Small Merchant!? Wow, talk about a lucky shot.

I move in and finish off the stalled large, but in doing so one of the Flower Corvettes comes rushing back to defend. Too late! Down I go again, wait a bit... then when clear move against the large cargo. At this point the small is 10km ahead and the convoy is 20km ahead. I put another torp into the large and than I notice TWO escorts coming at me. Choices choices.. do I finish off the large, and leave the small? HECK NO! One more torp finishes off the large then I full ahead (flank speed was broken this whole patrol!) at the small. 5km away.. escorts are 8k and closing FAST! Four tubes are ready now, I put one more into the small and she goes down, then I rush the flower covrette!! At 2500m I launch two torps and crash drive to port. I guess I missed with my throat shots. Oh well, my first engagement with a military ship. Tried to ambush a destroyer eariler, but was seen.

So, my convoy skills are getting better I think. Got 3 from this latest convoy, but I'm still iffy on distances and stuff. Next time I'll try submerged.

[bigboywooly]

Well, using that great screenshot and tactics as above I ran into a convoy two days ago. I tried a surface attack. I waited between the outter two columns of the convoy about 2500m from the lead escort. Since it was night, he went right past me. Then I started to move in at 1/3 speed to get into position in the middle of the convoy, so I could head on fire at two large cargos and aft fire at another as it passed me behind.

Apparently getting greedy was my downfall. The front line merchants turned their lights on and the starboard rear escort started shooting at me before i was even in place!! I turned into the convoy, sprayed a wild volley hoping for anything, then crash dove under the convoy using their prop sounds to hide and get away. I ended up being depth charged, but only minor damage and it was repaired well. Turns out I'd hit a single large cargo and I finished him off later.

Tonite I found another convoy. I tried something similar, but this time I only went one column deep, ignoring the juicy large cargos in the middle. 24 ships in all. Escort went past me no problem, I moved in at slow, and no one reacted. There was 900m between the columns and I was smack in the middle of it, silent and still. Than the large cargo spins it's search light RIGHT on me and the whole convo starts to turn. I was about 600m away so being hit was a big possibilty!! I even got a "we're being rammed!" message. So I turned into the convoy trying to keep my cool. Luckily their turn matched mine and I let loose ALL my torps. Two into the large cargo in front of me, two more into the trailing medium cargo behind it, and my aft tube into the orginal large cargo that was my primary target and the one that found me. ALL the escorts were on me this time.

They never depth charged tonite, I think they just couldn't find me. I easily evaded them and headed back the way they came. About 11km away I lose all sound contacts and surface. Looking back I see a stopped large cargo!! In the distance TWO smoke trails. One is another large cargo moving at 4kts and the other one is a Small Merchant!? Wow, talk about a lucky shot.

I move in and finish off the stalled large, but in doing so one of the Flower Corvettes comes rushing back to defend. Too late! Down I go again, wait a bit... then when clear move against the large cargo. At this point the small is 10km ahead and the convoy is 20km ahead. I put another torp into the large and than I notice TWO escorts coming at me. Choices choices.. do I finish off the large, and leave the small? HECK NO! One more torp finishes off the large then I full ahead (flank speed was broken this whole patrol!) at the small. 5km away.. escorts are 8k and closing FAST! Four tubes are ready now, I put one more into the small and she goes down, then I rush the flower covrette!! At 2500m I launch two torps and crash drive to port. I guess I missed with my throat shots. Oh well, my first engagement with a military ship. Tried to ambush a destroyer eariler, but was seen.

So, my convoy skills are getting better I think. Got 3 from this latest convoy, but I'm still iffy on distances and stuff. Next time I'll try submerged.

Try to keep your speed down to 2\3 kts as you close in on convoy
Silent running helps also
That way they wont detect you so easy before you fire

[Shahed]

Sorry did'nt update as mentioned. Will do so today (hope). :rock:

EDIT: Just reread your post: GREAT job Herr Kaleun !