Fed. Judge dismisses NFA trial against LEO.....

[Yahoshua]

Judge clears Illinois officer of gun charge
By Tim O'Neil
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Wednesday, Aug. 30 2006

SEE THREAD http://www.hk94.com/hk/State-trooper-plead...gun-t20151.html For Past Discussion

Charges that an Illinois State Police sergeant illegally possessed a machine
gun were dismissed Wednesday by a federal judge, who ruled that the law was
"unconstitutionally vague" as applied to him.

In federal court in East St. Louis, U.S. District Judge David R. Herndon
dropped the charges against Sgt. James V. Vest of O'Fallon, Ill., who was lead
rifle instructor for the department's District 11 in the Metro East area.
Herndon's 26-page order says the confusion is over the federal law's exception
for police officers, and whether Vest could reasonably be expected to know
whether he was breaking the law.

Vest was one of four people, including two other Illinois state troopers,
separately accused in January of illegally possessing machine guns. Such fully
automatic weapons are banned by federal law except for certain uses, such as by
the military and police agencies, or by people with a special license, which
the four did not have.

A machine gun fires multiple rounds with one squeeze of the trigger.

How Herndon's ruling would affect the other cases was unclear Wednesday, partly
because the charges against them are not identical.

Two other defendants, State Police Special Agent John Yard of Collinsville and
Dr. Harold Griffiths of Spaulding, Ill., have similar constitutional claims
pending before U.S. District Judge Michael J. Reagan in East St. Louis.

The remaining defendant, Senior Master Trooper Greg Mugge of Jerseyville,
pleaded guilty July 25 of possession of an unregistered machine gun. His
lawyer, John Delaney Jr., said Wednesday that he was studying the Vest case
ruling. "Who knows what will happen?" he said.

Clyde Kuehn, one of Vest's lawyers, said Wednesday "was a very relieving and
happy day" for his client. Vest remains on administrative leave.

The four were charged after investigations by the federal Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. It was not clear at the outset what triggered
the probe. None of the four was accused of using the weapons in any crimes.

U.S. Attorney Randy Massey, whose office brought the charges, declined
Wednesday to discuss Herndon's ruling. Massey's office had opposed Vest's
motion to dismiss.

"We are evaluating the order and are looking into our options," he said.

The charges carry a maximum prison term of 10 years and a fine of up to
$250,000, although federal guidelines call for less when defendants have no
criminal records.

Gun used in classes

The case against Vest concerned an M-4 machine gun, essentially a short-barrel
form of the standard M-16 military weapon, that he bought in 1998 and used in
his state police training classes. The charges allege that he lacked authority
from the state to buy or possess the weapon.

Vest argued that he bought and used it under the "law enforcement exception" in
the federal law. Some police agencies have machine guns in their arsenals,
particularly for their tactical teams.

Herndon noted that the prosecution never claimed that Vest ever used the M-4
for anything but official purposes. The judge said the government argued that a
law enforcement agency, not a single police officer, has the authority to
permit possession of a machine gun.

But Herndon wrote that the federal law granting that authority was too vague in
this instance to support the charges against Vest.

"How would a police officer/lead rifle instructor such as Vest ever know
whether his possession of a machine gun or other prohibited weapon was legal,
as there is no guidance under the (statute) as to what constitutes proper
authority," the judge wrote. "It does not appear that this statute was designed
to criminalize police officers even if they may be guilty of mere technical
violations."

Given that Vest apparently used it only for law enforcement purposes, Herndon
said, charging him "seems to go against the purpose" of the federal law.

A spokesman for the Illinois State Police headquarters in Springfield had no
comment on the ruling and said he could not discuss personnel matters regarding
Vest.

In February, 10 Metro East police chiefs, two county sheriffs and two state
senators publicly urged leniency for the accused officers.


-----------------------------------------------------------
You're a cop, so you're not expected to understand the law?

But if you're not a cop you are expected to understand the law?


Lovely to think that if I were in that mans' position, I would become Emperor of my own 8x8 cell for the rest of my life.

All hail the Red Tape.....and the Beaureaucracy controlling it.:damn:

[Perilscope]

You're a cop, so you're not expected to understand the law?
But if you're not a cop you are expected to understand the law?
It's not new; these special U-turns are always for people with a badge or with higher ranking in the society.:nope:

[Yahoshua]

(reminisce...Mike Jack)

[August]

Sounds to me like the judge made the proper ruling in this case.

[Yahoshua]

You pressed the buttton, thou hast activated: THE RANT

Rant On *click*

If you are not active/reserve duty in the Military. You are a civilian.

If you are not part of the clergy. You are a civilian.

Politicians are civilians. Celebrities are civilians. The corporate CEO of Enron is a civilian. the stripper in the bar around the corner is a civilian. The bum on the street is a civilian.

Civilians are obligated to obey laws so long as they do not infronge on the rights of the people as set in the Bill of Rights.

Law Enforcement Officer = LEO.

A LEO is a glorified civilian given the powers to oversee, and enforce the law.

This man himself, a civilian, BROKE the law. So we give him a slap on the hand and send him on his way.

Lets' see an example of someone who is a civilian, but not a LEO.

http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm

http://www.byington.org/Carl/ruby/ruby1.htm

Too extreme? Perhaps you're right.

Lets bring this down a little more.


http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190226649&path=!news&s=1045855934842

Wait a second, doesn't this sound familiar? Doesn't the bill of rights protect us from this sort of thing? And on that course, wouldn't the NFA laws be illegal? Why won't a judge decide what laws are constitutional vs unconstitutional instead of using his own bias?

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200608/NAT20060825a.html

Well, that law sounds reasonable, it'll help us track down the criminals and put them in jail.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_21_54/ai_93370303

Oops. I guess it doesn't help!

So what do we do about it?

I guess we have to go to our legislators for help when the courts can't/refuse any course of action to correct the situation.

My, look at how successful our legislature and courts have been in preserving our rights!!

And just LOOK at the results!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

And the result for us civilians that don't wear a badge is (I had to post the article itself since the Salt Lake Tribune that carried the story is no longer hosting it, the highlights are fom the search I made):


BOUNTIFUL - When Gregg Revell packed his bags for a trip to Pennsylvania last April, he had no idea how far he'd be traveling.
Before the week was out, the 57-year-old suburban real estate agent and grandfather would be arrested, thrown into one of the country's most notorious jails, strip searched and inoculated against his will. The soft-spoken Utah native would be on his way to becoming a poster child for the National Rifle Association in a $3 million lawsuit.
During a nearly five-day stay in a Newark, N.J., jail, he would meet a terrifying side of America that most Utahns see only on television and briefly would become a jailhouse mentor to drug dealers and violent criminals.
It started as a trip to pick up a BMW in Allentown, Pa., for a relaxing road trip back to Utah.
"I fix them up and sell them," Revell says. "Sometimes I make a profit. It's something I do for fun."
Revell, who has a Utah concealed weapon permit, usually takes a handgun with him for protection on his car trips.
Transporting a firearm in your luggage across country on an airline is not illegal, but involves some paperwork. Revell who has made a couple dozen such car-buying trips, knows the process. He fills out the Federal Aviation Administration paperwork, packs his .45 caliber pistol in a locked case, his hollow-point ammunition in another locked case and puts both in his checked luggage. He declares the gun to the ticketing agents.
"Sometimes I get a look, but it's never been a problem," he says.
Unfortunately, for Revell, his Allentown trip required a change of planes in Newark, N.J.
His plane was late arriving in Newark Liberty Airport and he missed his connection. Five hours later, he found himself boarding an airline chartered bus for Allentown, 90 miles away.
Revell also discovered his luggage had not made the connection. Northwest Airline agents apologized that his bags had been mismarked to stop in Newark. By the time he tracked the bags down, his bus had left and he was stuck overnight in New Jersey.
When he returned to the airport the next morning, April Fools' Day, and rechecked his bags - again declaring his handgun and ammunition - he was stopped by security officers of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
"I wasn't the least bit nervous," Revell says. "I was only nervous about missing another flight."
Despite his explanations, Utah concealed weapon permit and his FAA document, Revell missed the flight because he was arrested and handcuffed: "I have never been arrested before. I have never felt anything degrading like that in my life."
"You don't have a permit to carry a gun in New Jersey," a Port Authority officer told him, according to Revell. "And you don't have a permit to carry hollow-point ammunition."
"I asked an officer if this had something to do with April Fool's Day," Revell remembers. "He said it most certainly did not."
In 1986, Congress passed the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) for citizens who are transporting firearms through various jurisdictions.
"Law abiding citizens who happened to wander into anti-gun jurisdictions could wind up being harassed and imprisoned," says Scott Bach, a New York-based attorney and member of the NRA board of directors. "FOPA was passed to end abuses."
Under the law, a citizen can transport an unloaded gun between two jurisdictions that don't prohibit it - as long as it is locked in a hard case with the ammunition locked in a separate hard case, "regardless of what local law says," explains Bach.
The law is routinely violated in "anti-gun" jurisdictions, Bach says, notably New York, Los Angeles and New Jersey.
Revell soon found himself in Newark's Essex County Jail.
"It is the lowest, it is the worst and it has the most hardened criminals of any correctional facility in the nation," says Bach. "It is horrific."
Revell, who would spend nearly four days in the jail, agrees.
"The jailers asked me, 'What the heck did you do to be in here?' They felt bad for me. But there was nothing they could do."
A judge set his bail at $15,000 and required the amount be paid in cash, not through the usual bail-bond arrangement.
"It's tough to come up with $15,000 on a weekend," Revell says.

While his family back in Utah got the money together, he spent nearly five days in jail, sometimes in holding cells crowded with 28 other prisoners.
"People were passed out on the floor in their own vomit," he says.
Prisoners were strip-searched in an a public room.
"For the only person with a white butt in a jail with 1,000 people, it was not a good situation," he says. "I could have given some people some ideas."
Revell figured that for survival, "I'd better make friends as fast as I could."
He listened to the hard luck stories of his cell mates.
"I would give them encouragement because a lot of them weren't very happy to be there. Because I was older than everybody, I was known as 'Pop.' ''
Everyone knew he was in on a gun charge, and some prisoners assumed it was for a violent crime.
"They all talked jive. It was hard for me to understand," Revell says. Until one of them asked him, "How many people did you waste?"
After a heart-to-heart with the prisoner, the man asked Revell if he would get him guns. "He would give me a great price."
Several prisoners befriended Revell despite the suburbanite's many faux pas, such as asking about their tattoos.
"There are some tattoos you just don't ask about," he says. "But some people would stand up for me if there was a problem."
His jail savvy friends told him they were in a tuberculosis quarantine for a few days, but after testing would join the rest of the jail.
"We can't protect you when we get in with the general population," his friends warned Revell.
"That scared me."
Hours before being transferred into the general prison population, a bail bonds employee finally showed up with the bail money. Ultimately, the bail was lowered, but by the time he had met the bail bond company's requirement that he pay in advance for a bounty hunter to track him back to Utah if necessary, Revell was out $20,000.
He was also 10 pounds lighter and had a blister on his arm from a tuberculosis inoculation. But he was free.
"I took the best shower of my life."
Within two months, prosecutors dismissed the charges against him. New York and New Jersey Port Authority officials did not respond to requests for an interview.
But the Utahn's story had come to the NRA's attention. The NRA is funding the $3 million lawsuit filed in January in federal court in New Jersey against the Port Authority. Revell and the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs are co-defendants.
Though he had grown up in a hunting family and had a concealed weapon permit, Revell had never been a guns-rights activist or even a member of the NRA.
"I am now," he says. "As is my wife."
The $3 million damage figure was set to make sure the case gets the attention of airports across the country, says Bach, who is president of the New Jersey gun clubs association.
"Unfortunately, that's the way things work," Revell says. "We want to get the laws adhered to or get new laws made if we need to do that. If I should win, a fair amount of the settlement will go to the NRA as a donation."
Revell never got his .45 back; Essex County never responded to his lawyers' requests.
But he did drive the BMW home from Allentown despite his traumatic experience.
"My family offered to fly me home," Revell says. "But I told them I needed a few days to clear my head. It was good to have a little thinking time."



Need some more proof?

http://www.krgv.com/2005/10/11/4725/Senator-s-charge-thrown-out

Thanks for letting us steal your taxes without your consent, abridging your rights by using the courts, enjoying loads of money without being subject to laws as the underlings are, and especially for being the "Good" citizen.

Have a nice day.


Rant Off. *click*

[P_Funk]

Herndon's 26-page order says the confusion is over the federal law's exception for police officers, and whether Vest could reasonably be expected to know
whether he was breaking the law.
How can a cop be confused as to the law? Isn't that supposed to be his specialty? I mean the constitution has nothing to do with it. Well it does but the fact is that there is a law which prohibits him owning the gun and every single law is considered constitutional, otherwise it isn't a law.

Once again we see how we are in a police state. The lines between the judicial and the executive blur once more. Who needs a machine gun? Not even the cops need a machine gun. There is no reason to have one and that's why it's illegal. Bollocks if he's a cop.

The US is a very ironic place.