P-class, Salmon, Tambor and Gato

[(SH3)JOHN LAMARRE]

can someone put those 4 classes on here like the photos what they look like

[WilhelmSchulz.]

P-Calss
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6673/172smallpm3.jpg

http://www.valoratsea.com/pclass.htm

Salmon/Sargo Class
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1350/ss193smallfk1.jpg

http://www.valoratsea.com/Salmon1.htm

Tambor/Gar Class.
http://www.valoratsea.com/SS-201_Triton_small.gif

http://www.valoratsea.com/Tambor.htm

[cmdrk]

Here are the subs profile silhouettes
http://members.socket.net/%7Eklhulett/files/subs.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong,
The P Class had 6 tubes 4/2
The Salmon had 8 tubes 4/4
The Tambor and Gato had 10 6/4

Five P's had 2 external tubes forward added.
A few Salmon's also had 2 external tubes.

[Safe-Keeper]

Wow, the difference between an S-Class and an argonaut:o.

I want an S-Class boat after seeing those. Looking forward to seeing it either in-game or as a mod'.

[Lurchi]

This is what makes me sad that there will be no playable japanese subs. The Pacific is nice and U.S. subs are okay, but the technical specs from P-class to Gato are very similar and they 'feel' almost the same - an evolutionary design.

The only U.S. sub which were different are S-class, Argonaut, Nautilus and Barracuda - but they all don't make it into the game ... :damn:

[Zero Niner]

Would be nice to see silhouettes of the Type II, VII and IX on the same scale just to compare the relative sizes...

[Payoff]

Not sure of the scale above. This one is 1:700 scale.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4343/uboatsiv4.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uboatsiv4.jpg)

[(SH3)JOHN LAMARRE]

only subs in sh4 only

[Highbury]

only subs in sh4 only


... interesting.....


Thanks for the profile pics, again I echo the lack of variety in subs. S Class would be nice. I always like little boats, big Type II fan in SHIII

[cmdrk]

Pictures from www.navsource.org (http://www.navsource.org)

P Class
http://members.socket.net/%7Eklhulett/files/Permit.jpg

Salmon/Sargo
http://members.socket.net/%7Eklhulett/files/Skipjack.jpg

Tambor/Gar
Tambor (SS-198), off Diamond Head, Hawaii, circa 1943.
http://members.socket.net/%7Eklhulett/files/Tambor.jpg

Gato
Albacore (SS-218) off Mare Island during her last overhaul, May 1944.
http://members.socket.net/%7Eklhulett/files/Albacore.jpg

[MGR1]

Pictures from www.navsource.org (http://www.navsource.org)

P Class
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0817813.jpg

Salmon/Sargo
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0818404.jpg

Tambor/Gar
Tambor (SS-198), off Diamond Head, Hawaii, circa 1943.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0819803.jpg

Gato
Albacore (SS-218) off Mare Island during her last overhaul, May 1944.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0821803.jpg

The pics aren't showing up.:-?

IIRC the guy who runs Navsource (Paul Yarnall) blocks direct linking as it eats up his bandwidth.

Only way round that is to host the images somewhere else, then link.:cool:

Mike.:)

[anthrax]

Sub warfare in the Pacific was very different to the Atlantic. US WWII submarines were typically much larger than the germans. The Gato / Balao class is quite abit bigger than the IX type uboats. They also were equipped with many features that the german subs lack such as air-conditioning, advance TDC's etc. etc.

The large US fleet subs worked well for the US in the pacific theatre.


Perhaps the most important thing thou is that the Japanese where no where as advance as the allies in terms of ASW warfare. They lacked advance electronics , radar equiped search planes, radar warning recivers etc.etc.. Conversely, american fleet type submaines benfited from decent Radars. lots of japanese ships were detected on radar then subsequently engaged with torps.

SH IV will offer a fairly different gameplay style. Lots more shallow water operations, more torpedoing of fast moving warships etc. etc.

[cmdrk]

Pictures from www.navsource.org (http://www.navsource.org)


The pics aren't showing up.:-?

IIRC the guy who runs Navsource (Paul Yarnall) blocks direct linking as it eats up his bandwidth.

Only way round that is to host the images somewhere else, then link.:cool:

Mike.:)

Thanks
I cropped the pictures and hosting them from my personal site.
Should be viewable now.

[VoodooPriest]

Perhaps the most important thing thou is that the Japanese where no where as advance as the allies in terms of ASW warfare. They lacked advance electronics , radar equiped search planes, radar warning recivers etc.etc.. Conversely, american fleet type submaines benfited from decent Radars. lots of japanese ships were detected on radar then subsequently engaged with torps.

So while in SH3 the challenge and excitement grows as the war progresses, it will decrease in SH4? Not a very good concept for a game :D

[cmdrk]

Perhaps the most important thing thou is that the Japanese where no where as advance as the allies in terms of ASW warfare. They lacked advance electronics , radar equiped search planes, radar warning recivers etc.etc.. Conversely, american fleet type submaines benfited from decent Radars. lots of japanese ships were detected on radar then subsequently engaged with torps.
So while in SH3 the challenge and excitement grows as the war progresses, it will decrease in SH4? Not a very good concept for a game :D
Yea... that's why the original Silent Hunter was such a flop as a game.

[Capt. D]

Perhaps the most important thing thou is that the Japanese where no where as advance as the allies in terms of ASW warfare. They lacked advance electronics , radar equiped search planes, radar warning recivers etc.etc.. Conversely, american fleet type submaines benfited from decent Radars. lots of japanese ships were detected on radar then subsequently engaged with torps.


So while in SH3 the challenge and excitement grows as the war progresses, it will decrease in SH4? Not a very good concept for a game :D


Yea... that's why the original Silent Hunter was such a flop as a game.


Tell that to the 52 boats sunk over the course of the war and the ones sunk just prior to the end of the war. USS Lagarto on May 3, 1945 off Thailand (resently found) and the Bullhead August 6, 1945 (I believe the last sub lost). 8 boats total were lost in 1945.

We are always looking at this needs to be real or that needs to be real (as noted in other threads), so of course if we go on historic value - there will be less ships to sink. But this is a sim so it should follow what really happened.

I guess the real question will be: "If they do it right" - will we last until the end of the war or be one of the 52!

My feelings are if the sim is done correctly:D and will hold the interest with the right graphics and opportunities (e.g. crew management, type of subs avaliable, enemy subs, etc. as noted in many of the other threads) the game value will be there.:know:

Happy Hunting :ping:

[VoodooPriest]

My feelings are if the sim is done correctly:D and will hold the interest with the right graphics and opportunities (e.g. crew management, type of subs avaliable, enemy subs, etc. as noted in many of the other threads) the game value will be there.:know:

I think the challenge in SH4 should originate from a slightly different concept.
While in SH3 the excitement came from questions like "how do I get into this convoy at best?" or "will I be found by this destroyers radar?" or "am I silent enough to not be heard by the escorts at once?", you know, all this tactical stuff caused by the enemys technical superiority later in the war, I think in SH4 it should come from questions like "do I operate the sensors correctly?" or "did I trim the buoyancy right?".
What I mean is, while in a game simulating the atlantic war it is challenging enough to try and beat the odds, in a pacific sim there needs to be additional challenge from really simulating the technology and it's usage, as the odds become quite short on your side after a while.

[Btw, while the US lost 8 boats in roughly 7 month, germany lost 120 in about half the time (4 month). Thats what I mean when I say the US subs were in comparably little danger.]

[Torgen]

Well, things got more dangerous for the US boats as the war went on, but not like the U-boats saw. One of the perks of fighting _for_ an industrial powerhouse as opposed to fighting _against_ one. ;) The IJN got radar and such later in the war, as well as getting more experience, so things did get more difficult. More difficult than they needed to be.

In the early part of the war, the Japanese had no idea how deep our boats could go- until a dumbass US Senator told a crowd to not worry about their boys in the submarines, as the Japanese were setting their DCs too shallow! :stare:

Soon afterwards, US sub loses increased as the enemy suddenly started setting the DCs much deeper...

[Hylander_1314]

Don't forget too that the closer you get to Japanese Home Islands, the easier it will be for a fishing boat or other small watercraft to spot you and if equipted with a wireless, they can repot your position and estimated course, and speed. And there is a miriad of other things that can be ordered that I'm sure will help break up the monotony.

And there should be the everpresent danger of a torp. runnung wild, and coming back at you.

[Capt. D]

Don't forget too that the closer you get to Japanese Home Islands, the easier it will be for a fishing boat or other small watercraft to spot you and if equipted with a wireless, they can repot your position and estimated course, and speed. And there is a miriad of other things that can be ordered that I'm sure will help break up the monotony.

And there should be the everpresent danger of a torp. runnung wild, and coming back at you.

USS Tang 1944

Yup, the Pacific had it's own issues and as the war continued and subs patroled closer and closer to Japan they were in danger of being spotted by fishing boats etc. - as Hylander mentions - it became just as important (if not more) to be on alert at all times. Also the Japanese equipment did improve and detection was just as critical to US subs at the end of the war as was in the begining if not more so due to the equipment improvement by Japan.

As long as the sim incorporates all the issues surrounding the Pacific Theater and includes the improvements that Japan had and used - the battle will be fought in ernest to the end.

Happy Hunitng :ping:

[cmdrk]

Silent Hunter I was a success and I don't see why Silent Hunter IV can't be also.

Read about Tang's 'Empire' patrol and you will see the challenges faced by US subs.

I've read that the majority of U-boats never sunk a ship. I wonder how many were sunk just trying to get to the shipping lanes. I suspect a good number of loses were in the Bay of Biscay, as the Allies had ASW forces camped right on the U-boats doorstep.

US subs operated with a huge strategic advantage compared to the U-boats. US subs could come from anywhere in the Pacific.