No Balao class submarine?

[CaptainNemo]

"DD: Silent Hunter IV aims to give an accurate representation of the US submarine campaign against Japan. Taking both this, and our own development schedule, into consideration, we chose the most representative US fleet boat classes: P-class, Tambor, Salmon, and Gato. Of course, each of them will come with several development variations."

Does this mean there will be no Balao class submarine and or Tench class ? :( Or is the Balao a "development variation" of the Gato?:hmm:

Save the Balao!! ^^
http://www.waypointtours.com/images/Img125.jpg

[SmithN23]

My guess it that is will be a variant of the Gato, according to wikipedia they are pretty much the same accept for the different pressure hull allowing it to go deeper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_class_submarine (Gato class characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balao_class (Balao class characteristics)
http://www.battleshipcove.com/ss298-history.htm (some good information about the USS Lionfish a Balao class sub that is at Battleship Cove in Fall River, Massachusetts)

[PeriscopeDepth]

There are quite a lot of posts about this. I bet it'll be in there.

PD

[Onkel Neal]

".....we chose the most representative US fleet boat classes: P-class, Tambor, Salmon, and Gato. Of course, each of them will come with several development variations."

Does this mean there will be no Balao class submarine and or Tench class ? :( Or is the Balao a "development variation" of the Gato?:hmm:




The Balao is a variation of the Gato, I'm betting the Balao will be in SH4.

[Zero Niner]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Balao look similar to a Gato, externally?
If so then it shouldn't be too difficult to include it in, right?

[Hartmann]

I have sh1 installed and running with dos box and in the reference it say that the only differences are the maximum depth ,300 in gato and 400 ft in balao class.


the speed, torpedoes are the same, with a very little difference in displacement, :hmm:

[SmithN23]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Balao look similar to a Gato, externally?
If so then it shouldn't be too difficult to include it in, right?

yeah, if you check out the wikipedia links that I posted above the characteristics are exactly the same except for the test depth of the Balao class which was 100 feet deeper than the Gato class

[CaptainNemo]

Of course are the gato and balao very simmiliar but there is one optical difference even the conning tower. Have a look:

Gato (Modell)
http://www.steelnavy.com/images/RustyFletcher/Gato%204.jpg


Balao (real photo)
http://www.aotd-clan.com/Bilder/ubootkrieg/redtower.jpg

And this is one of the reasons why I do like the balao more than the gato ;)
http://http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0836304.jpg

[Steeltrap]

Quite a few Gatos were fitted with the same bridge structure as the Balao class after major re-fits. This was done to the 'Wahoo', for example.

[MGR1]

CaptainNemo wrote: "DD: Silent Hunter IV aims to give an accurate representation of the US submarine campaign against Japan. Taking both this, and our own development schedule, into consideration, we chose the most representative US fleet boat classes: P-class, Tambor, Salmon, and Gato. Of course, each of them will come with several development variations."

Does this mean there will be no Balao class submarine and or Tench class ? :( Or is the Balao a "development variation" of the Gato?:hmm:

Perhaps this can be viewed in the same way as the Type-VIIC vs Type VIIC/41 "issue".

Assuming that there will be an "SHIVCommander", the difference in test depth could be sorted out that way, as well as expanding the roster entries to include the Balao's, if the Gato roster doesn't already include them.

I would say it's pretty evident that the devs view the Balao's as a variant of the Gato's, rather than a completely different class.

My 2p,

Mike.:)

[Kruger]

Why is this difference in crush depth between the german and american subs ? It's not a small one.

[Sailor Steve]

Rated test depths are advisories, not true crush depths. U-boats and American subs both reported surviving depths of 600 feet and more. There really wasn't that much of a difference.

In Das Boot (both book and movie) the rated test depth of 'UA'/U-96 is only 90 meters.

[Safe-Keeper]

Even if the Balao's not added, I suppose it'd be quite easy for a modder to just add a new conning tower to a Gato duplicate and re-name it Balao-class.

Rated test depths are advisories, not true crush depths.What if the shipyard had a change of routines and decided that "rated test depths" would be equal to crush depths?

"The shipyard guarantees 250 metres, and a bit more if your aft dive planes are jammed and there's still 30 minutes left of the movie, but of course we can go deeper."
[Goes to 300 metres]
[Ambient Crunching sound]
"Er, let's get back up. Our correspondent is sweating quite badly, and Bernard's pissed his pants".
[Crunching sound, leaks appear everywhere]
"Oh shi--"

Mission Ended

Sub destroyed by pressure and n00b arrogance.

Start: 0 minutes into movie.
End: 19 minutes into movie.
Crew:
4 Officers [4 Dead]
10 Petty Officers [10 Dead]
30 Sailors [30 Dead]
1 Annoying Nazi Correspondent [1 Dead]

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Actuly the Balao and Trench had deeper crush depths than the thin-skined Gato.

[ssbn627g]

The balao is a variant of the gato. The gato's had a thin pressure hull (5/8"). Test depth to 350 ft. The balao's pressure hull was 7/8" thick and test depth was 450 feet. Dick O'Kane, in his Tang had an offical (although accidental) deep depth of 647 ft.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

The Tang I do Belive was a Balao. :hmm:

[ricnunes]

Yeap the Balao can be considered an "updated" Gato but nevertheless I hope that they include the Balao on SH4. Note that more Balaos existed and therefore more Balaos saw action on the Pacific than the gato. It would be real bad if the devs decided to leave the Balao out of the game!

[Hitman]

The Tang I do Belive was a Balao.

That's right SS-306 was already a BALAO

The Balaos were essentially improved hull-Gatos, same design, but improved hull resistance AND what was almost as important, prepared to be assembled from pre-built parts (like teh german Type XXI or the Victory/Liberty ships)

As for the conning tower, ALL US subs where it was possible received that refit during 1943, intended to have a smaller visual silhouette for night surface actions. Perchs, tambors and also salmos & sargos received that refit plus the first SJ radar and also a new repaint in grey later (At the start of the war and during the first months, US subs were all painted in very dark grey, nearly black).

[cmdrk]

As for the conning tower, ALL US subs where it was possible received that refit during 1943, intended to have a smaller visual silhouette for night surface actions. Perchs, tambors and also salmos & sargos received that refit plus the first SJ radar and also a new repaint in grey later (At the start of the war and during the first months, US subs were all painted in very dark grey, nearly black).
Wartime experience dictated changes to the sub's superstructure during refits. It seems the most common changes were cutting down the front to provide a gun platform, the "front porch". And later, removing some of the fairwater under the aft cigarette deck to reduce the silhouette.

One book speculated that with all the modifications on the superstructure at Mare Island, Pearl, Midway, etc. that no two submarines looked alike. The book showed a picture of 5 or 6 subs berthed side by side. Two of them were commissioned within months of each other from the same yard. Each one had something different about it.

[AirborneTD]

Yeap the Balao can be considered an "updated" Gato but nevertheless I hope that they include the Balao on SH4. Note that more Balaos existed and therefore more Balaos saw action on the Pacific than the gato. It would be real bad if the devs decided to leave the Balao out of the game!

This is not quite true. Yes, there were, eventually, more Balao's than Gato's in the Pacific, but the Gatos ran more war patrols than the Balao's and Tench classes combined. The latter 2 classes came out much later when targets were becoming scarce. The Gatos bore that brunt of the fighting as well as the earlier boats.

The Balaos numbered 105 boats compared to the Gato 54 by war's end, but the Gatos ran 587 patrols to the Balao 423.

[Capt. D]

The Balaos numbered 105 boats compared to the Gato 54 by war's end, but the Gatos ran 587 patrols to the Balao 423.
Also, only 11 Tench class boats made any patrols in WWII. The brunt of the patrols were made by Gatos and Balaos. The USS Flasher ran up the highest score in tonnage sunk and she was a Gato class.

The Tautog, a Tambor class boat (class prior to Gatos), ran up the most ships sunk, though, with 26 confirmed sinkings. So number vs class did not matter at times.



Happy Hunting :ping:

[ricnunes]

Yeap the Balao can be considered an "updated" Gato but nevertheless I hope that they include the Balao on SH4. Note that more Balaos existed and therefore more Balaos saw action on the Pacific than the gato. It would be real bad if the devs decided to leave the Balao out of the game!

This is not quite true. Yes, there were, eventually, more Balao's than Gato's in the Pacific, but the Gatos ran more war patrols than the Balao's and Tench classes combined. The latter 2 classes came out much later when targets were becoming scarce. The Gatos bore that brunt of the fighting as well as the earlier boats.

The Balaos numbered 105 boats compared to the Gato 54 by war's end, but the Gatos ran 587 patrols to the Balao 423.

Ok, that the Gatos did more patrols than the Balaos, afterall the Gatos entered in service first and like the Balaos they were fought till the end of the war but the number of patrols of the Balao was also very big so I think that very few would disagree that the Balao shouldn't be included in SH4.

For example the German TypeXXI according to many sources never saw actual combat in WWII but nevertheless it was included in SH3 so I think not having the Balao in SH4 would be a HUGE mistake from the SH4 devs. I even think that not having the Tench in SH4 is a mistake (despite seeing limited service in WWII - But so the German TypeXXI did).
But I do hope that the Balao (and even the Tench) is included as a "variantion" of the Gato.

[Hitman]

The Gatos bore that brunt of the fighting as well as the earlier boats.


Yeah, and in fact the highest scoring submarine was .... a T class! USS Tautog (SS204??) was it. :rock:

[Capt. D]

Ok, that the Gatos did more patrols than the Balaos, afterall the Gatos entered in service first and like the Balaos they were fought till the end of the war but the number of patrols of the Balao was also very big so I think that very few would disagree that the Balao shouldn't be included in SH4.


But I do hope that the Balao (and even the Tench) is included as a "variantion" of the Gato.[/QUOTE]

If my memory serves me correctly - SH had all classes of boats from the S- Boat up. I believe that included the Salmon. Permit, Tambor, Gato, Balao, and Tench. I remember being given the opportunity to "transfer" to a new boat with classes of Balao and Tench so I guess why would the dev. team NOT include them in SH4? If a sim - SH "way back when" could include these boats and their individual operational "properties" - I see no reason a sim of the 21st century can not have at minimum what SH had!:|\\

Happy Hunting :ping:

[Sailor Steve]

If a sim - SH "way back when" could include these boats and their individual operational "properties" - I see no reason a sim of the 21st century can not have at minimum what SH had!:|\\
SHI also had the Narwhal, Nautilus and Argonaut. The problem is that SHI only had to have a different 'Gauges' panel, repair view and 'Exiting the port' clip; whereas SHIV will have to have a fully detailed control room interior plus exterior shots for each class. I would love to see them all, but I'll understand if I don't.

I'm sure the Balao and Tench should be easy as derivatives of the Gato, but each of the others is a separate class.

Gotta have them 'S'-boats, though.:stare:

[Capt. D]

[quote=Sailor Steve] SHI also had the Narwhal, Nautilus and Argonaut. The problem is that SHI only had to have a different 'Gauges' panel, repair view and 'Exiting the port' clip; whereas SHIV will have to have a fully detailed control room interior plus exterior shots for each class. I would love to see them all, but I'll understand if I don't.

I'm sure the Balao and Tench should be easy as derivatives of the Gato, but each of the others is a separate class.

Gotta have them 'S'-boats, though.:stare:

Your right to a degree. Minus the V class you mention though, Gatos thru Tench had very very little in the way of different detail in the control room or conning tower (we need the conning tower as it was the 'control center' of the attack) or for that matter any of the compartments. Some different arrangments of where some equipment may have been placed but otherwise not much that one would be upset about if not just exact. Exterior wise should not be an issue if the "Birds eye view" of SH3 and SH2 are not kept. One never had that view anyway. Same with "under water" views. If I had to do without those would be my choice.

T-class were very close to the Gatos + also. the Ps, Salmon class may have been the most different from the other 'fleet boats' but still should not have been that much. They may have had one scope accesable from the control room rather than both in the conning tower and only one engine room rather than the two of the later classes. (I do not believe we will have entrior shots of the torp rooms so 4 or 6 forward or 2 or 4 aft should not be that much at all other than adding to whatever we are given for firing controls.) The S-Boats on the other hand had the most difference and would take the most time to develope intrior graphics vs the others, but yes should be included.

I still think it can be accomplished without to much trouble if we keep the Gatos+ differences to a bare minimum and Ts are very close that they could in fact get away with almost the same shots. The Ps and Salmons would need more of a change and of course the S-Boats so maybe just three different views?

We'll see what the finished product is. Can wish though!

Happy Hunting :ping: