get range through sonar contact?

[Asuriel]

Is there a way to determine the range and course of a contact with the information given by the sonar operator in 100% realism? Cause right now I can only find them by positioning myself behind them and then catching up at flank speed, which always ends me getting spotted by my prey and them initiating evasive manouvers (which cost torpedos).

I tried marking the bearings of a contact on the map relative to my boat, but there is no way i can determine the range, and without range there is no course and speed.

now i read something about an ekelund range but what is that and how do you implement it in ones computations to get ahead and set up a perfect shot using the Basic or Andvanced 90 method?

now i am quite new to this game (just got it 3 days ago) but I am able to find and sink ships on 100% realism *thanks to the wiki and Wazoo's plotting manual* but it always ends in a cat and mouse game which I don't think is very professional and stealthy. Plus I won't have much success with convoys or warships if I first have to pass them on the surface to give them a taste of my stern torpedos.

many thanks in advance

[Azordian]

Hello!

In my simple understanding of the u-boat controls that I undertake (mind you, I'm still in the early war), I believe it's impossible to get a distance without the use of sonar ping. Calculating the speed of the wave in water by the time of the outgoing and return ping. But that won't be available until 1942, I believe. :)

EDIT: I see what you mean now! Ok, there is a way to do this, pre-sonar in the early war.

Once the boat has been spotted by your sonar, you will see a degree of the boat. If the contact moves "away" from you, as your operator informs you, see which way the contact moves in bearing. If caught at 30 degrees, and the contact is moving 31-32-33-34, he's moving away southeast of your position. In general, this is a hard-to-catch target. But you could set yourself to position him at around 320 degrees to yourself and see if you can intercept him. Once you set yourself to this course, see whether the contact moves degrees - if he moves 321-322 or 319-318 - this will inform you whether you are keeping a direct intercept course or if you're 'losing/gaining' on the target.

In an hour or so (since the range of the contact would be between 10-15km), you will begin to get a visual ID on the target. If in heavy fog, that could become incredibly difficult. I once came up on a ship at 400m because of heavy fog, and almost had a collission.

This visual ID will be your basis for attack, to 'see' how much more you need to gain on him, get the manual ID of the ship, distance by 'trig', the angle-to-bow, and the speed of the target. Plot these points, get a general sense of the target's course, and once you reach it make a turn for the attack. Await for him to come at 80-100 angle-to-bow (depends on the side) into your '0' zone and launch your pre-set torpedos. Of course you can launch torpedos at any angle, so long as they're magnetic - but the sure thing is an impact torpedo straight into the fuel tank.

Azordian

[supposedtobeworking]

from what i can remember there is a sound trainer mission and manual someone created which, if i am not mistaken, goes through a tutorial on how to plot targets and fire on them completely and soley using passive sonar. no visuals....just look up "sound trainer" i can't really remember where i found it---actually i think it is on the subsim downloads page...but for the life of me i tried it and couldn't figure out how to do it...

[SteamWake]

What I do although it is not realistic is to place a mark at or near the contact line on the map at a known time. After a period of time say 5 or 10 minutes I place another mark.

Then you can get a rough estimate as to the targets course and speed by measuring the distance between the two marks and a little math. The line between the two marks indicate the approximate course. Measuring the distance between your current position to the latest mark will give you the range.

Beware though that these are rough estimates and generally used to make closure with the target easier. The contact lines are notoriously sketchy.

There is a reather extensive thread here about these concepts Ill go find it and edit in a link :up:

"The hunt" an excellent thread discussing contact persicution http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

Wazoo's charting guide
http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

[Sailor Steve]

Are you talking about Sonar or hydrophones? With hydrophones, no, the range is not obtainable. If you have active sonar you can ask the soundman and he will give you the exact range.

Of course, the 'ping' will tell all the escorts exactly where you are, but what's life without a little excitement?

[Asuriel]

I already looked at those tutorials on how to intercept and how to plot (stated that in my original post as well). The thing is that I played without updated contacts on the nav map, meaning once i am submerged there is no more dot on the map nor bearing\estimated range markings from my SO. I managed to intercept quite well with them enabled though.

I just installed NYGM TOnnage War mod and disabled the "hide contacts on map" option. got it working, but was only able to play a little and didn't get any passive sonar contacts yet, so I am still unsure if I see them or not. hope they show up.

[Dantenoc]

The answer is yes an no.

The game's limited sound model and your lack of training prohibit you from doing it. You can force the issue by asking your sonarman to report on the nearest target, and he'll tell you wether it's in close, medium or long range.

Close is within 1 km
Medium is more than 1 km but less than 3km
Long is more than 3km but probably less than 15km
If he reports "no contact" even though YOU can hear it, then that means that the target is probably farther than 15 km but less than 32 km.

You can cheat a bit by paying attention to the exact moment when it changes from long to medium or from medium to close, at wich point you'll now the exact range.

Maybe this will help
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92743

[P_Funk]

I already looked at those tutorials on how to intercept and how to plot (stated that in my original post as well). The thing is that I played without updated contacts on the nav map, meaning once i am submerged there is no more dot on the map nor bearing\estimated range markings from my SO. I managed to intercept quite well with them enabled though.

I just installed NYGM TOnnage War mod and disabled the "hide contacts on map" option. got it working, but was only able to play a little and didn't get any passive sonar contacts yet, so I am still unsure if I see them or not. hope they show up.

I actually only began manual plotting after I installed GW and had it so that the contacs were never shown on the map itself. This meant that I had to plot their course myself in order to know evben where they were going and at what speed and so on. It is hard for sure. However ultimately it is simple once you get the hang of it. And you can get range while submerged. However you do not get the advantage of the Watch Officer's reading of the target. This leaves the stadimetre. This while submerged isn't very easy to use because firstly it can be hard to accurately measure the target at a long range. Secondly the UZO is better suited to using it because it has a stabilizing mechanism. The periscopes do not.

So what do we learn from this? It is far easier to plot a target's course, speed, and range from the bridge than from the periscope. But this doesn't mean you cannot still attack while submerged. You can gather your data while surfaced and shadowing your target and then place yourself ahead of your target's course and submerge in anticipation.

It is a much more involved process without an updated map. If a convoy makes a sudden course change you can find yourself panicing as the lead escort suddenly is whipping at you at 25 knots. Your difficulty I think is more a lack of experience than anything else. Remember the limitations of the U-boats. They are not true submarines. In fact they are really just weapons platforms which have the ability to submerge. They were designed to attack on the surface and to submerge as a defensive mechanism.

The surface is where you will find it easiest to plot manually, especially without an updated map.

Hope that helps some.