Ultra received: SH4 update here!!!!!

[Onkel Neal]

Yup, time to lift the veil. Keep an eye on the Subsim.com news. Hours away.

UPDATE 8/23/2006 1100 CST:
SH4 Dev Team Interview with art and screens
http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh4/sh4_interview1.php (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh4/sh4_interview1.php)


__________

[bookworm_020]

Keeping a weather eye open, thanks for the warning. Lets hope it's all positive:up:

[PeriscopeDepth]

:rock:

PD

[McBeck]

Keeping an eye out ;)

[The Noob]

ALARM!

*My eyes Stare at the Subsim front Page*

[Safe-Keeper]

Here we go:arrgh!::

"Silent Hunter IV Cancelled!"
Link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/nah,%20not%20rly:p.)

...Wait, what:o?!

[Wilko]

what link was that Safe-Keeper, I just get a "Page not Found" error :doh:

Waiting :lurk:

[Safe-Keeper]

Joking, joking:p...

[Driftwood]

:D XO, float the radio buoy!

[STEED]

Up periscope. :D

[TDK1044]

I still don't see the target?:ping:

[Jmack]

still nothing from BDU ...

[Onkel Neal]

Stand by, I'm adding some last minute content just received.

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh4/sh4_in1.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

:o :huh: :-? :zzz:

[Syxx_Killer]

How much longer do we have to standby? The suspense is killing me! :huh::dead:

[Gizzmoe]

About an hour, probably less.

[The General]

Please [makers of SHIV] make the ocean surface slightly transparent from above! It isn't too much to ask.

Judging by the photos, the makers of SHIV are using the same graphics engine as SHIII. I can't say I blame them, as it costs alot of money to develop and produce a game from scratch and there is a limited market for this sort of sim/game. I'm still gonna buy it, just like the rest of you, but just be realistic in your expectations. They're probably just building new models, adding a few new graphical touches and tweaking the Campaign structure.

If I'm right, then it's not so bad, afterall SH3 is very good and the Greywolves team are bringing it ever closer to perfection. I think they're wisely keeping what made SHIII good and, having taken a few notes from the subsim forums, are aware of what could make SHIV great.

[Onkel Neal]

Live in 27 minutes....

www.subsim.com (http://www.subsim.com)

[mr chris]

Ah news at last!:rock:

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh4/sh4_interview1.php (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/sh4/sh4_interview1.php)

[The General]

Oh man this sounds awesome! Thanks Neal, for a great interview, the question about the phosphorescence was brilliant!

Nb: Just saw the trailer, this looks awesome!

[Sailor Steve]

"it will require much less babysitting...three watches system...Special objectives, events and many little (or not quite so little) things...lifeguard duty and photo recon missions...will not be the only special missions...commando insertions...supply drops...more varied patrol objectives...constant interaction with COMSUBPAC...All the major battles in pacific theater of operations will be represented..."


:cool: :rock:

[Jmack]

well ... no one mentions the naval air battles or the variety of planes you will see ...
and that was a big part of the pacific war and it must be a big part of SH4 .

will we be able to see planes engaging each others ?

i know sh4 is in a very early stage of development but ... i was hoping for a bit more info ...

[Safe-Keeper]

Dogfights would be so awesome, so I hope so.

You already have bombers' gun turrets machine-gunning fighters in Silent Hunter III, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Looking forward to seeing Pearl Harbour in all its Silent Hunter glory:arrgh!:!

[Jager]

Well here are the downers for SH4 for me:

Duchiron, 41, France: Did you plan to add a human manned destroyer (aka Destroyer Command 2) to SH4?
SH4 Dev Team: Not direct control, but as you can see in another answer above, we plan of giving command of enemy escort forces – during multiplayer – to a human.


I wanted to be on the bridge of the destroyer or on the depth charge racks so this is a real set back.


Ken Ho, 31, Japan: Can a Japanese submarine be controlled?
SH4 Dev Team: Negative, Japanese submarines will not be player controllable for SHIV.

Talk about lump sided.


David Drysdale, 28, Canada: I loved the 3d rendered control room, it really added to the atmosphere. Will you be expanding the amount internal 3d locations in the sub?
SH4 Dev Team: For now, the stations will remain the same. We still believe that captain’s job keeps him in the command and attack center of the sub most of the time. Would it be cool to be able to walk the whole sub and watch Torpedomates do their job? Yes! But at what cost in development?

Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?

Sorry for being harsh but I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me. :down:

[Jmack]

well ... i would say the same ... at the present time with the right mods SHIII looks far more interesting than SH4 .... in fact a mod that would allow us to play in pacifig in sh3 sounds more interesting than sh4 at the present moment

but i guess the ones modding for sh3 will be doing the same for sh4 ... so i wont say it just yet

[Bum]

Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?

Sorry for being harsh but I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me. :down:

Jager, don't feel bad, there are always players who expect more than a game delivers. Slots and I were betting who would be the 1rst guy to be "disappointed" with the game, months before it is finished. You rock, dood! :rock:

SH3 with improvements, set in the Pacific... that's sounds like a good description. I'll take two, plz! :rotfl:

[STEED]

Nice start on the info front. :yep: :)

[Jager]

Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?

Sorry for being harsh but I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me. :down:

Jager, don't feel bad, there are always players who expect more than a game delivers. Slots and I were betting who would be the 1rst guy to be "disappointed" with the game, months before it is finished. You rock, dood! :rock:

SH3 with improvements, set in the Pacific... that's sounds like a good description. I'll take two, plz! :rotfl:

One of many prehaps. The sad part is is that it is still in development which means that they can cut any of the good stuff, like the radio traffic, out just to get the game out on time. If they want to make the game worth every penny they have to go the extra mile.

[Safe-Keeper]

Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?"Fantastic" with a few improvements... Sounds good to me:up:.

[Nightmare]

I wanted to be on the bridge of the destroyer or on the depth charge racks so this is a real set back.


I’d rather have DC2 as a separate game instead of bundled into SH4. This way it gives the developer more time to focus on making each product: detailed, immersive, accurate, realistic, and detailed. With the timetables developers work under these days something would have to give, and I rather have two good to excellent games instead of a buggy one that had to make compromises.


Talk about lump sided.


No Silent Hunter game to date has had multination subs as playable, so I don’t understand the expectation that we’d have Japanese submarines playable this time around. While playing a Japanese sub would be interesting and would be refreshing, my understanding was they weren’t used effectively during the war.


Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?

Sorry for being harsh but I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me. :down:


It was pretty much acknowledge since the SH4 rumors started so close after the release of SH3 that it would be just an updated SH3 in the Pacific. Why fix something that isn’t broken?

As long as SH4: takes the series back to the Pacific (I don’t think this theater has been visited since the original SH), expands on SH3 gameplay, has more immersive campaign (radio), expanded missions while on patrol (lifeguard duty, photo reconnaissance), and fixed watch system/crew management I’ll be extremely happy. Any graphic upgrade is just icing on the cake for me. So far what I've read seems to meet all of that.

[mr chris]

Well i for one am going to sit back and see what develops. After all ive got SH3 to keep me ocupied.:arrgh!:
Good luck to the dev team for SH4 what i have seen so far is impressive:up:

[codefool]

Ubisoft using that crappy star-force copy protection junk really screwed my system up - so much I had to replace the damn thing before I realized it was SH3 that was screwing it up (even after uninstall, the system continued to degrade). If SH4 also uses star-force, sadly they will not get my gaming dollars.

The rumor is that Ubisoft has stopped using star-force:

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000047791.html

I will have to wait until somebody else installs the thing before I'll trust it.

[Jmack]

now ... that is an point they never mentioned in the enterview

[Godalmighty83]

no brit subs.... :cry:

oh well theres always sh5.

[Stary Wuj]

Screenshots Photoshoped to maximum :-) hmmmm, too much brown IMHO

What about THERMAL LAYERS ?

We will see, I hope SH4 will be better (and not easier) than SH3.

Best Regards

Stary Wuj

[Type941]

Of course. Very positive reactions, all looks wonderful. But i cant help but be a bit sceptical. About the realism of it, that is. I smell a rat every time the game is 'tuned' for an american audience - i.e. more 'accessible' (WHY?) and more 'fun'. So many racing sims suffered from this. I hope Sh4 stays true to its core fan base, not some 12 year olds who wanna "blow up things 'n stuff".... :|\\

[aanker]

Subsim: Which class of US subs are planned to be included?

SH4 Dev Team: The main types of subs we’re putting in are P-class, Salmon, Tambor and Gato. Obviously, the variations of these classes will be represented in detail
------------------------------------------------------------------

Too bad they didn't include the S-Boats and Narwhal this time.

Also, sailing all the way across the Pacific to the patrol area and assigning the crew tasks to perform along the way seems tedious to me.

Thanks for a great interview SubSim.

Art Anker

[Stary Wuj]

Of course. Very positive reactions, all looks wonderful. But i cant help but be a bit sceptical. About the realism of it, that is. I smell a rat every time the game is 'tuned' for an american audience - i.e. more 'accessible' (WHY?) and more 'fun'. So many racing sims suffered from this. I hope Sh4 stays true to its core fan base, not some 12 year olds who wanna "blow up things 'n stuff".... :|\\

Full agreement here, very well put Type 941 !!!

Stary Wuj

[PeriscopeDepth]

Other then the lack of S-boats, everything looks great!

PD

[Roads88]

It looks realy good to me. I'm glad they are not trying to get it out by Christmas.

After, Christmas i'm going looking at CPU's, Motherboards, and video cards.
Think I'm going to need the power.:up:

[Capt.Crackerjack]

I am sooooo glad we are going back to the Pacific! For those of you with negative attitudes towards the new SH4 GAME, you are free to stick with the U-boats if you prefer; for the rest of us, we're headed back to the gorgeous Pacific in the American subs! Hoorah, yeaaaah!!!

[rfbranch]

Other then the lack of S-boats, everything looks great!

PD
A Salmon Class is an S-Boat, so you are in luck :lol:

[DeepSix]

He means the old "sugar" boats (S-39, S-41, etc.). Or were you joking?:)

[Sailor Steve]

I Agree with DeepSix: 'S-Boat' refers to the 'old' S-class which were numbered. The Salmon/Sargo class were sometimes called the "New S-class", but were not the same thing.

I too am hoping to run an old tub out of Manila or Cavite.

[Nightmare]

They didn't mention it in the list but I wonder if they'll include the Balao class since they are so similar to the Gatos. Aren't Balao's pretty much Gatos that have higher strength steel in the pressure hull?

[PeriscopeDepth]

I believe in the interview they said they would model the variants of the mentioned classes.

PD

[HunterICX]

:-? about the fully 3D Submarine...its an Eye catcher...but the dev team of SHIV is right in his answer...if ur an Captain then ACT like one :|\\

whats the use of drooling around in the diesel room when ur supposed to be focused on ur mission!

[Fire]

Well on one hand, as I played SH1 very often, it makes me happy that SH4 may bring the old feelings back.

But on the other hand, the new Multiplayer confuses me.

It's written that I'll not able to be on my Destroyer's bridge, but that I can control the escort's.

Does this mean that it will look for the escort player like Command&Conquer while the Sub Players are sitting in their Submarines?

[Sheppard]

Hopefully the Narwhal and S-Classes will be added later in an expansion pack; what I'm really worried about is this

SH4 Dev Team: At this moment we make some test with 4096X but the player will need a powerful PC to deal with the amount of calculation involved. We need to make more tests and checks in order to be sure that this 4096X time compression is crash free and accurate.

This bodes a bit badly for future pacific patrols....then again, the pacific is mostly empty sea; with no shipping...I'd like it if there was an option in an ini file:

detailedshipcalcs=TRUE or FALSE

so we could sacrifice some realism for a faster patrol on slower machines.

[Chaps]

Does this sound like SH3 with a few improvements ?

Sorry for being harsh but I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me. :down:

The other side of the equation is that every additional improvement we want comes at the expense of more time until release. As I noted the lack of the 'S' boats I had to remind myself of just that fact. I'm happy with what they've described, coupling it with a Q1 '07 release date, which may well get pushed back.

We could have multinational subs with Japanese DDs crewed by humans in multiplayer, with an entirely new graphics engine, but that would be a release date of, what, Q4 2010? Save that stuff for Silent Hunter 7, I say! I'm happy with what I see for the next game. :yep:

[malkuth74]

Well I hope they keep the Crew in for SHIV.

[Syxx_Killer]

This is going to be a long, hard wait until spring 2007. I am really stoked about SHIV. I have never played a PTO sim (other than Silent Service for NES). It will be a great change of pace from the Atlantic to the Pacific. I sure hope they implement the Balao class sub. I'd love to take command of Lionfish. :lol: The only thing that worries me, though, are the system requirements. When they said they made some of the graphics better than SH3 I am a little concerned. If we can run SH3, should we be able to run SH4?

[lostsm]

thanks for the interview, sh4 is looking great, too bad another ~5 months to wait with who knows how many more teasing subsim email alerts

this means i'll probably end up playing a few more sh3 careers in the interim :D

btw, someone posted above something about a trailer? is this a sh4 trailer, and if so where can it be downloaded?

[Onkel Neal]

Check the main page, mate, there's a link there.

[Zero Niner]

Yes!!! :D

[Tigrone]

"... one of the most important we think will be the addition of a new multiplayer mode. We are very excited about it and believe this will boost interest in online games immensely."

The above is the only thing that worries me. It is a quest for the teenage arcade audience that may not be worth the cost to a really competent Artificial Inteligence.
_________________________________

"SH4 Dev Team: Q1 2007"

Really? Wow! That would be amazing considering the amount of new code that is being described.

[Charlie901]

No "wolfpacks"

No A.I. Japanese Subs to watch out for and sink

and

No additional internal sub compartments


is really putting me off this game


These are all things that I and many others had hoped for in a expansion to SHIII and at least of all in a follow up, stand alone version.

[The General]

The above is the only thing that worries me. It is a quest for the teenage arcade audience that may not be worth the cost to a really competent Artificial Inteligence.

It takes a long time to programme good A.I. and that time could've been better spent working on other stuff, like creating enemy subs. Multiplayer is the future. Don't stand in the way of progress. Don't worry about the kids, the complexity of this type of sim puts most of 'em off anyway.

[Safe-Keeper]

No "wolfpacks"

No A.I. Japanese Subs to watch out for and sink

and

No additional internal sub compartments

is really putting me off this gameThe lack of Japanese subs disappointed me, too:cry:. The 3D Compatments - no biggie. It'd be nice to have them, but no, no biggie.

As for wolf-packs, they haven't ruled them out entirely.

It takes a long time to programme good A.I. and that time could've been better spent working on other stuff, like creating enemy subs. Multiplayer is the future. Don't stand in the way of progress. Don't worry about the kids, the complexity of this type of sim puts most of 'em off anyway.But we're talking about a sub game, which are best played alone.

MP might be the future of FPS and RTS games, but sub sims are a different thing altogether.

[Type941]

I am sooooo glad we are going back to the Pacific! For those of you with negative attitudes towards the new SH4 GAME, you are free to stick with the U-boats if you prefer; for the rest of us, we're headed back to the gorgeous Pacific in the American subs! Hoorah, yeaaaah!!!


Hooraah, yeahh, yeeehaa.

Now, you do realize that bunch of criticism is the reason you are getting better graphics, better plots, better engines, better effects, better ... whatever. If people thought like you, then the rest of US would be playing the same thing over and over, just paying more everytime, adjusted for inflation. NO offence, just trying to make it sound as simple as possible. Next time you want to slag off people criticizing things. There was nothing unreasanable said as well. :up:

[Onkel Neal]

I am sooooo glad we are going back to the Pacific! For those of you with negative attitudes towards the new SH4 GAME, you are free to stick with the U-boats if you prefer; for the rest of us, we're headed back to the gorgeous Pacific in the American subs! Hoorah, yeaaaah!!!


Hooraah, yeahh, yeeehaa.

Now, you do realize that bunch of criticism is the reason you are getting better graphics, better plots, better engines, better effects, better ... whatever. If people thought like you, then the rest of US would be playing the same thing over and over, just paying more everytime, adjusted for inflation. NO offence, just trying to make it sound as simple as possible. Next time you want to slag off people criticizing things. There was nothing unreasanable said as well. :up:

I've been told many times by many guys in dev teams, the reason the games improve is because they want to make the game better. They know the market demands it, but most developers want to impress the players. And I haven't heard a programmer yet say a community with a positive attitude has discouraged them. I have had a number of conversations with devs where they say all the bitching and complaining makes them wonder why they bother.

Pushing for improvements in subsims is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with it. I'm sure you agree, criticism should be positive, fair, and in perspective. :yep:

[-Pv-]

Well said Neal. After thousands of posts in here, the devs know what we want. Let's let them know we'll reward their efforts with sales and thank them for the thoughtful features they have agreed to include and improving many of the features often complained about in SH3. You needn't worry backing off on the constant griping about what you didn't like in SH3 will leave you with an inferior sim. Based on what I've seen in the past, these guys will give us all their time and budget will allow and aggressively patch what's broken at release.

1) You will not get a perfect game.
2) You will not get all the features everyone has asked for.
3) You will get a playing experience no other game will offer at the time.
4) It will likely be priced competitively with other war sims.
5) It will run on hardware manufactured within the last couple of years.
6) It will set a new gaming standard new games will have to match.

Despite all the complaining about what's wrong with SH3 I still bought it, and I still play it. I'll do the same with the next one. It took 10 years to get Falcon4 whipped into shape. I played it the whole time.
-Pv-

[THE_MASK]

Ten years to whip falcon4 into shape hey . In ten years we should be looking forward to SH10 :lol:

[Capt. D]

:DExcellent reading and information! It seems that they will touch base with most of all the requests that have been posted! I realize that some requests must be left on "shore" as there is only so much space to use the create a sim such as SH4, however I am disapointed/concerned that there will only be compartments within the sub as in SH3. They feel that the compartments that the Captain needs to be in control of, during the attack, are most important. I must agree, however if my memory serves me correctly SH3 has very little in the way of Conning Tower graphics with no men included. If any place in a US boat held the center "heart beat" of the sub during attack, where the Captain stood and with his team took the neccessary actions to the fireing point, was in the conning tower with the control room following orders he "sends down". I hope that that is taken under consideration!

Otherwise full speed ahead!!!!:D

Happy Hunting! :ping:

[GT182]

Codefool, don't feel bad, there are many in the same boat as you, tho some don't want to admit it. My computer took a hard hit from SF. And then there are some that never had problems so they say. I just hope they never do... then they won't have to hear "You were warned by us that did have problems but wouldn't listen to us. Now the last laugh is on you".

Yes, StarForce will not be in the new Ubi games/sims, as said by Ubi. But from what I've been told by those that do know, the new copy protection being used is just as bad if not worse than SF. And it could even be SF under a new name. There are people looking into that right now.

[Chaps]

I have had a number of conversations with devs where they say all the bitching and complaining makes them wonder why they bother.

Pushing for improvements in subsims is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with it. I'm sure you agree, criticism should be positive, fair, and in perspective. :yep:

I'm convinced the reason Lucasarts didn't do a KOTOR III is because of all the bitching on the forums of KOTOR II. They eviscerated that game when it came out. KOTOR II ends with an obvious setup for it's sequel, but any talk of that died. To this day they're still swapping fake rumors of a new KOTOR III.

I agree totally, push for improvements, but do it with a smile and some style.

[The General]

I agree totally, push for improvements, but do it with a smile and some style.

"Are you paying attention Reiben? This is how to gripe."

[terrapin]

Ten years to whip falcon4 into shape hey . In ten years we should be looking forward to SH10 :lol:

:) and F4 could be MUCH better if the devs would do it still with their former 'Hey, we're freeware coding gods' attitude...:cry:

[Safe-Keeper]

I agree totally, push for improvements, but do it with a smile and some style.That goes for all kinds of presentations, not just video games.

It applies to singing, drawing, dancing, athletics, instrumen-playing, school-work, scenario editing for games, whatever you can think of. Destructive critisism [cough]Primitive Cave-men judge panel in Idol[cough] more often than not improve anything, it just discourages.

So a post phrased like "OMG Ubi$soft!!111 H0w culd u!!11 Dizz game r gonna b3 teh sux0rz!!:damn:!!" is far less effective than "with all due respect, I don't really like the idea of that because...".

[Immacolata]

I can't believe no one asked the visual range question...

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!

Sure hope they give us realistic view distance, not this 8000 m POS that SH3 launched with.

Otherwise, so excited to see that SHIV is on the way for real now. Im gettin giddy! Perhaps it will be a different experience when you lurk about near island chains waiting to pick off japanese trooper ships, or help invasion forces. Maybe run screen for a carrier fleet ^_^

[Immacolata]

No "wolfpacks"

No A.I. Japanese Subs to watch out for and sink

and

No additional internal sub compartments


is really putting me off this game


These are all things that I and many others had hoped for in a expansion to SHIII and at least of all in a follow up, stand alone version.

Why are people so obsessed about the damn wolfpacks? I want to sink my own ships. And you get to be part of operations overall they said.

[Hylander_1314]

Not much need for wolfpacks in the Pacific anyways. Japanese convoys weren't as large as the Allied convoys. Most usually between 5 and 9 merchants being normal, with or without escorts.

I can understand the hardcore simmer's disappointment though, as they are a historical reality, and they give the escorts someone else to shoot at, or at least divide the escorts attention.

Sh III would benefit from them as the later convoys can have up to 7 escorts, and having 5 u-boats attacking a convoy can break up the escorts so they can't target just one boat. Which can increase your survivability.

[Subsim Monitor]

I agree totally, push for improvements, but do it with a smile and some style.

"Are you paying attention Reiben? This is how to gripe."

Well said!:up:

[Charlie901]

WOLFPACK's

Is the lest of it!

This just means "in other words" NO A.I. Subs...PERIOD!!!!

It's just you verse the world again. :roll:


and I've read of U.S. subs being stalked and sinking Japanese subs......

just one more threat to have to watch out for.


I could really care less about operating in a wolfpack. But responding to an area patrolled by another sub who has spotted a convoy would be nice, especially if you weren't the only operational sub in the whole U.S. fleet. Also, it would be nice to have to aid or search for a damaged/ assumed lost U.S. sub once in a while, especially if you weren't the only operational sub in the whole U.S. fleet.

LACK OF A.I. SUBS
This also probably means that the Dev's won't bother spending the time to model A.I. torpedo's for any of the surface vessels and aircraft, ala SHIII all over again,....a real shame for a Pacific Theater Sub Sim.

Who cares about air to air battles if none of the aircraft can carry/drop torpedos!

You all really need to open your eyes and look at the bigger picture once in a while.

:damn:

[Steeltrap]

The total encounters with Japanese subs, when set against the total number of hours of all boats on all patrols, was so insignificant that this is really being pedantic, IMO.

As for other vehicles using torps, care factor for me = 0, for the same reason as that above.

Point is to simulate US submarine ops, the overwhelming majority of which consisted of operating singly in assigned patrol areas (typically large) until time expired, torps expended or sub destroyed.

I'll keep saying it over and over - get all the things which matter with respect to a sub's operations and that is what will make the difference. A good example is AAA - you're a nut if you use it unless absolutely forced to do so. US subs had good air search radar and submerged as soon as they had a contact, as they weren't there to kill aircraft. Very sensible. In fact, many subs spent the majority (if not the whole) of daylight hours submerged - they could still detect ships and wouldn't be spotted from the air except through extraordinarily poor luck.

Radar, radio, periscopes (including restricted use in poor light - US subs were virtually blind through their scopes at night unless there was strong moonlight, and again just before dawn), sonar, engine/endurance factors, escort performance and weapons/systems, convoy composition and behaviour, realistic air patrols etc etc are what matter to me. Everything else is a very distant 2nd.

[Immacolata]

Im with steeltrap. This aint Grand Theft: Torpedo with a sandbox world. Focus on the submarine and its foes. Make the gameplay dynamic of the submarine hunt, the stalk, the attack, the kill and the evasion work. The rest is just filler.

[McBeck]

No, wolfpacks does not exclude the possibility of AI subs per definition, but I agree with the others that the chances of running into another sub in real life was very slim.
Better to focus on the things that did really happen and model that perfectly.

[Capt. D]

No, wolfpacks does not exclude the possibility of AI subs per definition, but I agree with the others that the chances of running into another sub in real life was very slim.
Better to focus on the things that did really happen and model that perfectly.

I also agree that wolfpacks were not a major factor in US sub warfare. Most packs were formed towards the end of the war and were sent in the Sea of Japan to find shipping that was felt to be there. The fact is when the US wolfpack arrived at their general patrol area, they all split up to their own assigned area - within the packs general area - to conduct their own patrols. If possiable to have that option would be nice but not mandatory.

As far as chances of running into another sub in real life - the USS Batfish ran into three of them in one patrol in '43 and sank them all. Again this did not happen with any regularity for sure - but you could and so it should be a possibility at the min. Not an actual patrol objective though. Fact is boats coming from the Electric Boat Company on the east coast would probably have more a chance of running into a U-Boat then running into a Japanese boat while on patrol in the Pacific.

If time/space permits then let both issues be a possibility of a patrol.

Happy Hunting :ping:

[Dan D]

"Games Convention Leipzig 06-no promotion for the game yet"

Ze Onkel Neal had asked me to talk to ubisoft representatives at the Games Convention in Leipzig (23.08-27.08.06) to see if I could squeeze out some more news and info on SH4. Unfortunately, I have practically no news for the SH4 enthusiasts. Reason: All that happened at the Games Convention was the statement to the press that SHIV will be released. There was no SH4 stand at the gamers centers, no members of the SH4 developers team had come to Leipzig, they did not even have a press kit yet. So I basically said "hello" to ubisoft from subsim. The ubisoft contact person for SH4 at least could tell me, that the official sh4 page will go online soon, probably already in September and that it is planned to soon release a list of the subs that will be playable in the game, as an appetizer so to speak.
Oh, and the ubisoft guys follow the discussions on subsim, of course. So say:"Cheese:D", everybody.
That's all. The most urgent questions concerning SH4 have been answered in the interview anyway, which you can find at the beginning of this thread.
-End of transmission-

[Roads88]

Thanks for trying:up:

[Onkel Neal]

Don't get me wrong, I do want AI Japanese subs in this game. SH1 had them. SH3 and SH4 have numerous AI ships. SH4 should have a few types of AI Japanese subs that have realistic habits and behavior. For now, I am keeping quiet until I know more about the game. A few months more and we should have more info. It will not be too late to focus on a few key features and push for them...

...of course, it helps is everyone agrees on what are key features. :ping:

[Hylander_1314]

Even though they weren't encountered as much, the enemy subs were there. I think SH1 overdid it as far as that went. I remember seeing them on a regular basis, and I don't think the IJN had "that" many in their inventory.

I think you're right Neal, it's still a bit premature. Still plenty of time to get the most important things desired, as long as everyone can come to a mutual agreement. There are other things that can always be added later as modder add-ons, or patches.

Maybe the Devs should put a list together for what is still realistically feasable to put in, and let everyone vote on it. That way everyone has a say in what will be accomplished by the release date. I'm sure they have lots to pick and choose from, and this would let the community participate in what gets added, and what can be dropped for the time being. And if everything gets done ahead of schedule, they can maybe pull a few things from the grab bag if there's time enough left.

One thing that has bugged me is that every sub sim never has any ships colliding after a torpedo attack. Not that it should happen all the time, but once in a while, it would be nice to see a couple ships make a turning error and run into each other. It did happen from time to time, panick and a hasty order to start turning the wrong direction. It's been close in SHIII but no cigar. The ships always seem to stop and reverse before impacting.

[bookworm_020]

Even if they didn't have time to put everything in, it would be nice to see an add on come out six months later with more of what we would like, such as more ship types, AI subs, extra aircraft types, maybe even a extra playable sub or two.

I'm not going to jump to conclusions on the game before it's finished, as we don't know what in or out. I just hope they get it stable and easy to use.

From what I've seen it looks good, but it's hard to tell from a 60 second Video and a couple of screen shots.

Let's not be to hard on the dev team, remember, there human too:up:

[Immacolata]

Hehe, hello back to you, too, ubi!

/waves

What are the odds eh? running into a japanese sub on patrol or passing an ubi soft representative on these boards?

As for AI subs, nice to have them, but I _REALLY_ put that lower on my list of things I want improved in SHIV.

My own pet peeve is to get the manual target solution making to work better. With mod tools and a tutorial I got pretty good at it in SH3. But it was obvious to me that the designers didn't entirely understand how it worked, and therefore didn't give us the proper tools for it.

I hope so much this aspect will be fixed. That and the 8000 m visibility range of SH3 (for shame!)

[Safe-Keeper]

What are the odds eh? running into a japanese sub on patrol or passing an ubi soft representative on these boards?They do watch the boards, friend, we know that beyond all doubt. They just apparently have a policy of "staying submerged". Each to their own.

Has to take a ton of persistance, watching this board as a lurker and not registering and posting:p.

[finchOU]

I'm going to say I"m interested in the Idea of doing new and different missions, but what exactly are the New and Improved upgrades over SH3? Of course it is early on...so we dont know for sure, but this Q/A session didnt seem to put the idea that SH4 is New and improved over SH3. Nothing seemed to jump out at me and say "WOW, this is something I Must go out and buy". Some good stuff put out...but some definite major downers as well.

Waiting for more!

[John Channing]

They do watch the boards, friend, we know that beyond all doubt. They just apparently have a policy of "staying submerged".

Yup... they most certainly are here. Wanna know why they prefer to stay under cover?

From this thread alone...

"some definite major downers"
"it was obvious to me that the designers didn't entirely understand how it worked, "
"Well here are the downers for SH4 for me:"
"I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me"
"a mod that would allow us to play in pacifig in sh3 sounds more interesting than sh4 "
"Ubisoft using that crappy star-force copy protection junk"
"I smell a rat every time the game is 'tuned' for an american audience "
"It is a quest for the teenage arcade audience "
"is really putting me off this game"
" 8000 m POS that SH3 launched with"
"You all really need to open your eyes and look at the bigger picture once in a while."

With between 5 and 7 months to go can you blame them for staying submerged?

JCC

[Safe-Keeper]

John is dead on the money.

And just as a side note, I remember reading a Silent Hunter III interview where the developers stated that they didn't think it'd be a good idea to have a delay from the time you gave orders to when the order was carried out. They used a scenario where you need to rapidly crash-dive as an example (and admittedly, it would probably save a good deal of German subs and doom a good deal of enemy merchants and warships if orders were carried out instantly).

Yet, here we are, playing a Silent Hunter III where it takes several seconds for an order to be carried out. You hit the hot-key, the appropriate officer acknowledges and passes the order on, and then the crew starts to execute it. It's great.

So don't worry so much, people. Changes happen.

[finchOU]

They do watch the boards, friend, we know that beyond all doubt. They just apparently have a policy of "staying submerged".

Yup... they most certainly are here. Wanna know why they prefer to stay under cover?

From this thread alone...



Can you blame us??? Really?? Come on......we just represent the part of the Subsim community that actually (or at least puts it out there) wants a something new and improved....is that so much to ask for?? Sure it is way early in the developement...but this is the time to push (actually a little late) to make damn sure you get a top notch product. Anyone actually remember the development of SH3???? That game was not even suppose to have a Campaign:huh:

I'll be the first to admit that the level of whining and groaning with SH3 got to the point of everyone thinking they deserved a specific add on to the game. But some obvious things where just left out that 90% of everyone wanted....for whatever reason (I think time was the critical factor). Now when they tell you " For now, the stations will remain the same. We still believe that captain’s job keeps him in the command and attack center of the sub most of the time."...come on...honestly...read between the lines!

[Onkel Neal]

They do watch the boards, friend, we know that beyond all doubt. They just apparently have a policy of "staying submerged".

Yup... they most certainly are here. Wanna know why they prefer to stay under cover?

From this thread alone...

"some definite major downers"
"it was obvious to me that the designers didn't entirely understand how it worked, "
"Well here are the downers for SH4 for me:"
"I expected more out of SH4 and so far it died out pretty quickly for me"
"a mod that would allow us to play in pacifig in sh3 sounds more interesting than sh4 "
"Ubisoft using that crappy star-force copy protection junk"
"I smell a rat every time the game is 'tuned' for an american audience "
"It is a quest for the teenage arcade audience "
"is really putting me off this game"
" 8000 m POS that SH3 launched with"
"You all really need to open your eyes and look at the bigger picture once in a while."

With between 5 and 7 months to go can you blame them for staying submerged?

JCC


And my Favorite of the Month: "SH3 was a buggy mess" :rotfl:

That guy must have never played Fast Attack, eh, John ;)

Can you blame us??? Really?? Come on......we just represent the part of the Subsim community that actually (or at least puts it out there) wants a something new and improved....is that so much to ask for?? Sure it is way early in the developement...but this is the time to push (actually a little late) to make damn sure you get a top notch product. Anyone actually remember the development of SH3???? That game was not even suppose to have a Campaign:huh:

You have a point. But as John says, we can get heard and have improvements to the game without stooping to the level of ranting spewmonkies. :doh:

[Safe-Keeper]

Sure it is way early in the developement...but this is the time to push (actually a little late) to make damn sure you get a top notch product. Anyone actually remember the development of SH3???? That game was not even suppose to have a Campaign:huh: And it's either be 100% quiet or be downright rude? No in-between?

But some obvious things where just left out that 90% of everyone wanted....for whatever reason (I think time was the critical factor).A lot of features that "everybody" want aren't really features that everybody want. You're sure the whole community wants a certain feature, and then somebody makes a poll and it's 40% for and 40% against, 20% undecided.

As for 3D compartments (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95329), while there was admittedly a majority for all of the sub's compartments being 3D models, the count was far from 90%.

[John Channing]

Nothing wrong with wanting more. Nothing wrong with asking for it, either.

Where the problem arises is with the snse of entitlement that is already rearing it's head. Some people seem to think that because they may plunk down $30, $40 or $50 they have a right to talk to developers any way that they feel. They forget that these are real people they are talking to. One of the worst aspects of this is when people take a cheap shot at UbiSoft.... forgetting that it is not some faceless corporation that is producing these products, but real people.

It is the small percentage of enthusiasts that yell the loudest and make the demands that cause the problems. They make no allowance for the reality of software developement or, more importantly, the human factor.

I have seen too many really good sim developers pack it in and move on to other things because of this sense of entitlement that is too often displayed by the people who consider themselves the core of the hobby.

The real core of our hobby is the people who spend countless hours actually producing these simulations. I don't think it is too much to ask to treat them with respect. Words matter.

And Neal... I LOVED Fast Attack!

Bugs and all.

JCC

[PeriscopeDepth]

Nothing wrong with wanting more. Nothing wrong with asking for it, either.

Where the problem arises is with the snse of entitlement that is already rearing it's head. Some people seem to think that because they may plunk down $30, $40 or $50 they have a right to talk to developers any way that they feel. They forget that these are real people they are talking to. One of the worst aspects of this is when people take a cheap shot at UbiSoft.... forgetting that it is not some faceless corporation that is producing these products, but real people.

It is the small percentage of enthusiasts that yell the loudest and make the demands that cause the problems. They make no allowance for the reality of software developement or, more importantly, the human factor.

I have seen too many really good sim developers pack it in and move on to other things because of this sense of entitlement that is too often displayed by the people who consider themselves the core of the hobby.

The real core of our hobby is the people who spend countless hours actually producing these simulations. I don't think it is too much to ask to treat them with respect. Words matter.

And Neal... I LOVED Fast Attack!

Bugs and all.

JCC

Fer shizzle ;). Great post John.

PD

[finchOU]

I agree that the sense of entitlement is a little on the overboard side sometimes. People should feel some sort of entitlement though....you are paying for a Product right?? In this age of the Internet people can and should voice what they want in a sim....Short of demanding it that is.....the only real vote you get is buying or not buying the product. I think if it is done tactfully it can be an effective tool. I'm not saying the community should strive to be a watchdog to keep companies in check, but more of a tool for companies to improve their product. Unfortunately, frustration can get the best of us....and tact goes out the window....:damn:...as most all can be guilty of that. An sure its easy for anyone to spew anything on this forum without actualy knowing what you are talking about....which, if and when the developers read the site, makes it harder for them to get good info...I would think. I dont think this is about hurting real peoples feelings...its about business and making the best product possible.

[Charlie901]

I Love how People Hear the term "A.I. Subs" and immediately think Japanese Subs....ONLY! :roll:


The addition of A.I. Subs would mean that you wouldn't be the only U.S. Sub operating in the WHOLE PACIFIC DURING THE ENTIRE WAR.....!!!

I fail to see what's so unimportant about that!!!

If this new incarnation is supposed to have an active radio message log with interactice updates, while at sea, it would make sense to have occasional reports relayed from other FRIENDLY A.I. Subs operating in enemy waters, concerning enemy ship movements.

So lets not abstract this practice in a SHIV Campaign by having imaginary friendly A.I. subs making these contacts....for it would be nice to arrive at the location and assist these subs in attacking these ships. This would split up the DD escorts and allow for an easier get away.

What about having to rendevous with a friendly sub to transfer parts/ supplies/ fuel, while at sea, "never happened" I think not??? :hmm:

Rather than having the Dev Mentioned inserting of special forces onto a beachead missions I'd rather receive an occasional emergency message to search an area for a presumed lost U.S. Sub (as was done historically). Just think how ridiculious these missions would be if you knew the game had no U.S. A.I. subs whatsoever....why would you even waste your time:rotfl:

Bottom line is, even though you wouldn't have historically run into an enemy sub very often, seeing and sinking one during your career, would be the ultimate prize and made many a Captain famous. Also, having U.S. A.I. subs would add a lot to the campaign in many more ways than I've outlined, least of all adding to the immersiveness tremendiously. :up:

[Roads88]

i'm just greatfull that they are making these Sims. For awhile, it looked like everthing was going to game stations. Based on the amount of time I spend with the game, it is some of the best money I've spent. Of course the mods get a lot of credit for that.

I don't rally care about walking around the boat all the much. Its a nice touch but I'm there for the hunt!.

Thank you UbiSoft and the Mod Community.:up:

Because the god lord knows I can't write code.

[Immacolata]

I agree that the sense of entitlement is a little on the overboard side sometimes. People should feel some sort of entitlement though....you are paying for a Product right?? In this age of the Internet people can and should voice what they want in a sim....

No, in this age of the internet there's a maltorrent of nitpicking and complaining, and I believe JCC is right. There is NO entitlement that warrants that kind of behaviour, if you actually want something to change. The developer is obliged to deliver a working product. Our entitlement lies in the fact that the product we purchase works as intended. We know that games have bugs, and developers have limits. If a game does not work as we EXPECTED, but none the less works, there is no entitlement of anything.

My favourite peeve with SH3 was the 8 km Vis range. I was really bummed about that. But even if I felt I was "let down", it was just not the case. I got a sub sim, it worked, I played it. That they chose to implement a 8000 range was a decision I didn't expect. Im glad someone modded it, but I should not have spent so much time bitching about it.

Remember the grand mother advice. Would your grand mother have done it? If not, its probably for a reason. Thanks JCC, for setting things straight ^^

[Immacolata]

I Love how People Hear the term "A.I. Subs" and immediately think Japanese Subs....ONLY! :roll:

Bottom line is, even though you wouldn't have historically run into an enemy sub very often, seeing and sinking one during your career, would be the ultimate prize and made many a Captain famous. Also, having U.S. A.I. subs would add a lot to the campaign in many more ways than I've outlined, least of all adding to the immersiveness tremendiously. :up:


Bottom line is, that you are way way out in the fringes of realistic expectations of the game. These are features, however nice they would be, are something that should be modded only. It would be super swell if the devs left some "hooks" to hang community developed ai subs on, but the primary aim and purpose of a submarine was to, in solitude, to hunt enemy ships and sink them. Id love to have ai subs, but that comes way after thermal layers, better damage model, a REALLY great manual plotting and solution making experience, better sound effects, more radio activity and scripted missions, more music for the grammophone, better AI for the enemy destroyers and airplanes etc.

[finchOU]

I agree that the sense of entitlement is a little on the overboard side sometimes. People should feel some sort of entitlement though....you are paying for a Product right?? In this age of the Internet people can and should voice what they want in a sim....

No, in this age of the internet there's a maltorrent of nitpicking and complaining, and I believe JCC is right. There is NO entitlement that warrants that kind of behaviour, if you actually want something to change. The developer is obliged to deliver a working product. Our entitlement lies in the fact that the product we purchase works as intended. We know that games have bugs, and developers have limits. If a game does not work as we EXPECTED, but none the less works, there is no entitlement of anything.

My favourite peeve with SH3 was the 8 km Vis range. I was really bummed about that. But even if I felt I was "let down", it was just not the case. I got a sub sim, it worked, I played it. That they chose to implement a 8000 range was a decision I didn't expect. Im glad someone modded it, but I should not have spent so much time bitching about it.

Remember the grand mother advice. Would your grand mother have done it? If not, its probably for a reason. Thanks JCC, for setting things straight ^^


Opinions, opinions, opinions....and we all have them. Look, all I'm saying that if done tactfully, we look at the things from SH3 that we thought were good or bad, and voice them out now, before the product hits the stores.....after the game comes out...it is too late (especially if the game is hard to mod).

[The General]

It will not be too late to focus on a few key features and push for them...

...of course, it helps is everyone agrees on what the key features are.

Maybe a team sould be assembled with the intent of approaching the developers with a list of demands, I mean 'to politely suggest a few ideas', as Neal has alluded to above? Obviously, I would love to be on the team but it should be the senior officers, Neal included, who make up this special Task Force.

Suggestion 1: For what it's worth, I'd like to see the water surface slightly opaque, like it is in BF2.

[_Seth_]

The guys here at subsim and all of the people playing SHIII, is the best group to give feedback to SHIV dev. team. We have all played SHIII, and know what "makes us going". Ubi should let the excellent freeware modders help them...
Example: The GW mod beats the h*** out og Uboat: battle in the mediterranean stolen mod. collection. (No disrespect to the modders who "contributed" to those thieves..) :D

[John Channing]

It will not be too late to focus on a few key features and push for them...

...of course, it helps is everyone agrees on what the key features are.

Maybe a team sould be assembled with the intent of approaching the developers with a list of demands, I mean 'to politely suggest a few ideas', as Neal has alluded to above? Obviously, I would love to be on the team but it should be the senior officers, Neal included, who make up this special Task Force.

Suggestion 1: For what it's worth, I'd like to see the water surface slightly opaque, like it is in BF2.


While this approach certainly has some merit I think it would be somewhat akin to re-inventing the wheel.

The developers are here, they always have been here. They do listen to what is being requested and, where possible, will act on it.

JCC

[finchOU]

The problem comes when everyone puts out thier own personal wants and it clobbers the board. Which makes it hard, IMHO, for someone just reading to pick up what the most popular and reasonalbe ones are.

I think that a poll(or survey like SH3) system with a bunch of Ideas would be great. Then after the first vote, narrow the field and make another poll until we have a core feild of reasonalbe requests.

I think the first list could be put out there by Neal based on what has already been put out.....what do you think?

I think its better than just posting wants....it shows more effort and a willingness to work for a common goal.

[Safe-Keeper]

Better and simpler to just have everyone write down their #1 wish, and their #1 wish only.

[finchOU]

Better and simpler to just have everyone write down their #1 wish, and their #1 wish only.

That sounds good, but sometimes people tend to change their minds after seeing other peoples entries...so maybe research a bit before posting or put out a list...I would say top 3 vise a #1 wish.

[Immacolata]

No. Their nr. 1 wish. We can brainstorm all we want, but 1 wish. My wish would be a manual plotting system that was slightly more AI assisted than in SH3 when you turned off automap. It is impossible to keep track of ships in a convoy. If there was AI assist like "plot x on map on bearing and distance" then we just needed Jiims and others good map overlay tools for fun map plotting.

[The General]

My idea was for a select bunch of officers, led by Neal, to make the important decisions. From reading the forums they'll have a pretty good idea what everybody wants but, the decision should ultimately be theirs. They'll have a clearer idea about what will go over (to the developers) and what won't. I know this'll frustrate all of you who think your opinion counts, and it does to a certain degree, but we've got to leave this one up to the Organ Grinders and not the Monkeys, afterall, we're not Communists.

[John Channing]

My idea was for a select bunch of officers, led by Neal, to make the important decisions. From reading the forums they'll have a pretty good idea what everybody wants but, the decision should ultimately be theirs. They'll have a clearer idea about what will go over (to the developers) and what won't. I know this'll frustrate all of you who think your opinion counts, and it does to a certain degree, but we've got to leave this one up to the Organ Grinders and not the Monkeys, afterall, we're not Communists.

Wow!

That's the first time I have ever seen a workload delegated upwards!

I hope my staff aren't reading this!

JCC

[finchOU]

My idea was for a select bunch of officers, led by Neal, to make the important decisions. From reading the forums they'll have a pretty good idea what everybody wants but, the decision should ultimately be theirs. They'll have a clearer idea about what will go over (to the developers) and what won't. I know this'll frustrate all of you who think your opinion counts, and it does to a certain degree, but we've got to leave this one up to the Organ Grinders and not the Monkeys, afterall, we're not Communists.

Possibly the best Idea I've heard in a while...if they want that responsiblity that is :up: . I think it would be a good idea because the dev team already trusts someone like Neal (and others)...and so do we..i think. Plus the fact that they would have a better idea of what is actually possible to ask for and what is...not in any way going to make it into SH4. I would still like to see a list of things they are thinking of asking (just so I can see if they at least entertain the Idea of some of the things I'm thinking of :) ).....Neal??? What say you??


"so what is it you say....ya do here??"
"I already told you, I talk to the Customers so the god damed engineers dont have to....I'm a people person......whats wrong with you people!!!"

[Safe-Keeper]

GamingForums thread on Silent Hunter IV (http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=275780).

A few of them are new to me.

[rls669]

That second screen is really nice. I'd think it was pre-rendered if it wasn't for the same crappy generic floating debris as in SH3.

[The General]

same crappy generic floating debris as in SH3.I think the game was still in it's early development stages when those screen-shots were taken. SHIV uses the same engine as SHIII and the floating debris was just one of the 1,000,001 things left to update. I think the developers wanted to put some shots out there, even if they were incomplete, just to fuel the excitement. They've succeeded.

Obviously the most important aspect of the visuals is the water (this being a naval based sim) and the good news is, that it's looking really good. They've just gotta make that surface transparent and bingo, it's the most realistic virtual environment in the history of computer games!

[Safe-Keeper]

I think the greatest compliment the game's graphics have gotten so far is that so many refuse to believe they're in-game screen-shots:up:.

[jpinard]

I'm lucky, acuz my #1 wish is coming true - SH 4 is coming! Yeehaa!