Movie: "Open Water"

[Skybird]

Yesterday, German TV showed the movie "Open Water", a film about a couple doing a dive in deep blue water that is forgotten and left behind by their boat and then find themselves in "open water".

I first thought it is no movie that would be rated as better than "mediocre", and only watched it with half an eye at best, but then concentrating on it more and more. Now I find myself going back to it all night and all day long. It has no happy end, and that bfact alone came as a kick in the stomach, at least for me, and very much out of the blue, since you are used to see happy endings in movies these days, and strong heroes, especially in desaster movies, and the movie seemed to deliver that happy end, too, although late. The way the final end is realized and put into scene, the sudden, silent acceptance of the inevatible, like a candle light being blown out, calm and unspectacular, the changing of the roles who is the stronger of those two people, and the strange two-split path of the story - the couple in the water, talking and doing, and the world around them just moving on with it's actions, without comment, without dialogue, without any action that would create a bridge between this very action and the audience, is disturbing, somehow.

Certainly no yelling and loud shouting horror, but a silent, unspectacular nightmare unfolding, put into pictures in a very different way than the usual mainstream movies. Give it a try if you have the chance, but watch until the end. In the beginning I did not like the protagonists - but in the end I was all with them, and the more i think of them, the more I realise how believable their relation and their psychological reactions have been illustrated. Disturbing movie, really.

Somehow, almost a meditation about life, and dying.

Bad reviews I think tell more about the action-expectations of the reviewers, than they tell something about the features of this movie. Some people simply are not satisfied if it is not constantly boom-boom-bang-bang, and cannot appreciate less noisy qualities. Such simpletons should avoid this film. Rated as "independant movie", it was done with a mini budget, and handheld digicams (which you only realise in the sometimes shaky camera moves, but not in picture quality, which is brilliant). Don't judge this film by the scale for Hollywood films. Many people complained about faults in the script, and contradictions, but I disagree and think the helplessness the film leaves the audience in behind is intentional. And although it comes in a non-sensational way, the ending scenes you will remember, believe me. Touching, without becoming sentimental. For me, "Open Water" is a secret classic. as one british amazon-customer wrote: adjust your expecations, and you will love this film.

[SubSerpent]

It was based on a true story and was shot like a documentary. It is a bit of a disturbing movie but then again it happens. Sharks gotta eat too ya know!?!

[Skybird]

I wouldn't call the stylized visual approach a "documentary". ;) And the sharks really were not the major actors in the film. anybody expecting a bloody festival now - I can assure you you will stay unsatisfied.

[diver]

Proof that a movie made on the smallest of budgets can be much better than one made with millions of dollars.

And tragically, it was based on the true story of 2 tourists being left out in the Great Barrier Reef.

[TteFAboB]

It has alot of educational value. If I ever go ocean diving, I'll make sure to bring a small mirror, a whistle, a good knife, shark repellents, a full chainmail suit, a harpoon, two spiked brass knuckles, that emergency radio beacon, a portable water-proof radio, astronaut food for 7 days, water for 7 days and an inflatable boat.

The best of this is that I can reach the bottom of the ocean pretty quick, so more time to look at the nice stuff. Of course, this also means I'll have to bring compressed air and a ballast tank to surface.

Ahh what the heck, screw diving, I'll bring my own submarine! :arrgh!:

[SubSerpent]

It has alot of educational value. If I ever go ocean diving, I'll make sure to bring a small mirror, a whistle, a good knife, shark repellents, a full chainmail suit, a harpoon, two spiked brass knuckles, that emergency radio beacon, a portable water-proof radio, astronaut food for 7 days, water for 7 days and an inflatable boat.

The best of this is that I can reach the bottom of the ocean pretty quick, so more time to look at the nice stuff. Of course, this also means I'll have to bring compressed air and a ballast tank to surface.

Ahh what the heck, screw diving, I'll bring my own submarine! :arrgh!:

Also, make sure you tie off to your diving partner if you go adrift. When the fell asleep they almost lost each other for good.

[Terrax]

That movie pisses me off. My son refuses to dive in salt water after watching that flick. I have went diving with sharks in the Key's and had a great time watching them in their element. That movie is pure speculation. Nobody knows what happened after the divers were left in the ocean. They were left in the open ocean for days. They most likely died of dehydration. The mental stress of the situation, with no hope must have been unbearable. Sharks probably didn't come into the picture until after they expired. The orgy of sharks in the movie is unrealistic, those sharks filmed in the movie were so passive that he actors could film around them without being bitten. But they were blood thirsy on-screen.

As far as the unfortunate couple, after returning to port, the skipper of the boat saw the unclaimed belongings of the divers, but went home anyway. There was a taxi cab waitting on the couple as instructed. When the cab driver asked where his fares were, he was told to leave, they must have gotten a different cab. At the trial, the dive shop tried to make the argument that the couple faked thier deaths to collect on insurance money, and that they weren't liable. They lost. The wet suit of the female washed up on a beach later. It was shredded, which led to the shark theory. It's possible that sharks could have killed the couple, but losts of scavengers could have fed on the body before the wetsuit washed up on the beach.

[Type941]

Terrax, I'm sory it seems you are grasping at straws.

It wasn't a great movie, but Il ike the ending, it was no bullsh!t, no spin. There were sharks around, there was more then one, they eventually took a bite, and once you bleed, it's all over. Fact that a woman was tougher is also very true, women do tend to survive this type of crap better and are stronger I suppose then men.


Just because you dove with sharks in a controlled environment.... comon man, you are comparing a weener with a finger. "They most likely died of dehydratio" - MOST likely? ... i doubt you can judge that at all. Pure speculation. "That movie pisses me off. My son refuses to dive in salt water after watching that flick" - that's what it's all about. Flick or not, it's a true story.


And if you really need to blame someone for sharks scaring people - blame Jaws. ;)


Skybird - I cannot even begin to tell you how much I despise the modern hollywood fekin sh!t that comes outta there, with all their happy endings, their SAME plot and so on. They portray people as how we WANT people to be, not how they REALLY are, and that's rediculous.

[Skybird]

Well, the ending in this one impressed me, and very much so. The way she let her dead loved one gently go, without hysteria or faked emotions. Knowing what lied ahead of her (and under her, invisible). after the body floated away, she turned, and had a last glance at him. She saw the calm, unexcited way in which the husband dissapeared from the surface, and she knew why, and what was happening under the surface. Then acccepting what was about to happen to her, and no longer resisting. Accepting. Mentally preparing, letting go anything, getting rid of oxygene tank and equipment, accepting that life will have it'S way. Waiting. And then only the empty water surface. The rest is left to the imagination of the audience.

Life goes on, and yes, the world around does not care. We are not that important as we think of ourselves all day long. Even our dying does not change the universe around us. And when looking at the beauty of that calm ocean surface, and the sky and the clouds - despite that single unimportant event that just took place, all is in order, all is well, all is beautiful and right the way it should be. It is one thing to imagine how proud and reserved we face our end, so that people will be impressed and remember the way we left. That way, we again create our own monument inside the mind of people. something of us needs to live on, right? Needs to tell the story of how fantastic we were, and how stoic we faced our end!? but if we still have that calm when we realise that noone will ever see and hear and learn about our end - that is something different, for usually we think that even our dying needs to be something special, something that makes people taking note of us and our "grandesse". Is there any heroism without an audience appreciating it as such? Heroism is not about the hero. It is about the other's interpretation inside their own minds. But in this movie: no one will ever know what happened to them, and what they went through. Not a single cloud stopped moving because what was happening. It all simply does not count thta much. It's just one single, very small and relatively unimportant piece in a giant puzzle that we call life, and cosmos. Puts things back into perspective.

More impressive than a million dollar budget spend on mindless special effects for overkill destructions, endless pathetic dialogues, and those monumental soundtracks trying to push emotions.

When the time has come for me one day, I hope I will be able to face it in the same accepting and unexcited attitude like that woman at the end of that movie.

I spend some time during a "Praktikum" on the diying station of a hospital, and later some time in a Hospice. I sat together with people that were dying. Most people I saw dying refused to accept that this time it was not somebody else, but they themselves. they still made plans. Looked to a future. And quite a good ammount of them made a stirr of their dying, if they still had the power, and still were by healthy sanity. Only a very few were able to let loose everything, in peace, and acceptance. Interestingly, most of these rejected any kind of support by Christians priests that were available. Maybe a coincidence, but I never asked. They had found their own answers, and did not depend on hear-say and books anymore. That one opened my eyes quite a bit. The staff considered me to be an alien, and demanded me to "do" more, and to "speak" more. Fools.

[scandium]

t even begin to tell you how much I despise the modern hollywood fekin sh!t that comes outta there, with all their happy endings, their SAME plot and so on. They portray people as how we WANT people to be, not how they REALLY are, and that's rediculous.
Agreed, I've all but given up watching movies in the theatre and rarely ever even rent these days. It is not only how formulaic they've become, but also the misuse and overuse of Matrix style cinematography and CGI. At the worst end of this spectrum are the ones so bad they remind me of the early "full motion video" games that hit the shelves after the cd-rom and "multi-media" became mainstream on the PC in the mid 90s (ie: no sets, no props, no nothing but actors and blue screen).

And then there is the trend toward putting out endless sequels that get worse and worse and which often even lose the interest of the original cast (or when they do, like in Basic Instinct 2, you wish they hadn't retained the original cast... or that half of it who had aged way too much to pull of the same role again)

Still, there are maybe 2 or 3 outstanding movies a year that come out which break the mold and whose producers, directors, and cast seem genuinely interested in the project rather than in making box office bucks and a paycheck. Often times some of these gems slip under the radar and never gain the recognition they deserve.

[kiwi_2005]

Dont forget about those $#%^ seagulls! they have a tendencie to eat the eyes first on a human. During ww2 when they would come across dead still clinging to life rafts, they couldn't figure out why alot were found in the water clinging to the life rafts, none were on the raft? Everyone had his eyes eaten, dead but hands gripped onto the side ropes of the raft and still bobbing out of the water like corks,.. Maybe the sailors hoped in the water to avoid the seagulls?

Im gonna hire out "Open Water" :rock:

[Skybird]

http://www.openwatermovie.com/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/open_water/

[Type941]

you see I am a scuba diver, so I would have watched this movie regardless of reviews.

I watch and look at things like what gear they use, how the trip is organized, how they beahve in danger, their gestures, etc, etc.

I can understand how for a casual viewer this may spoil the party.:-?


Hollywood is a disgrace.

[Skybird]

I do not know if it is realistic or not, and I do not care that much. It is no realistic docu-drama and no horror movie, but it is a psychodrama, somewhat, and the suspense is subtle. A "Kammerspiel". I am still confused myself about the ammount of impression it created for me.

BTW, the film was successful enough that they abused the title for a new movie being released these days, "Open Water 2". However, the film is by no means an official second part. It has nothing to do with the first movie, and it is made by different people.

On the Hollywood thing, I admit, occassionally they make a good, "silent" movie, too. Unfortunately, the loud and noisy crap dominates by far, and the stereotyped plots. Nothing against entertainement, I like to see a well-made action movie occasionally, but my taste is not limited to that Hollywood-Blockbuster-kind of movies exclusively.

[SUBMAN1]

It was an OK movie. Predictable though. At least they took the time to add a dts track to it too. I can't stand AC3 audio - its missing way too much detail.

-S

[SubSerpent]

Well, the ending in this one impressed me, and very much so. The way she let her dead loved one gently go, without hysteria or faked emotions. Knowing what lied ahead of her (and under her, invisible). after the body floated away, she turned, and had a last glance at him. She saw the calm, unexcited way in which the husband dissapeared from the surface, and she knew why, and what was happening under the surface. Then acccepting what was about to happen to her, and no longer resisting. Accepting. Mentally preparing, letting go anything, getting rid of oxygene tank and equipment, accepting that life will have it'S way. Waiting. And then only the empty water surface. The rest is left to the imagination of the audience.

Life goes on, and yes, the world around does not care. We are not that important as we think of ourselves all day long. Even our dying does not change the universe around us. And when looking at the beauty of that calm ocean surface, and the sky and the clouds - despite that single unimportant event that just took place, all is in order, all is well, all is beautiful and right the way it should be. It is one thing to imagine how proud and reserved we face our end, so that people will be impressed and remember the way we left. That way, we again create our own monument inside the mind of people. something of us needs to live on, right? Needs to tell the story of how fantastic we were, and how stoic we faced our end!? but if we still have that calm when we realise that noone will ever see and hear and learn about our end - that is something different, for usually we think that even our dying needs to be something special, something that makes people taking note of us and our "grandesse". Is there any heroism without an audience appreciating it as such? Heroism is not about the hero. It is about the other's interpretation inside their own minds. But in this movie: no one will ever know what happened to them, and what they went through. Not a single cloud stopped moving because what was happening. It all simply does not count thta much. It's just one single, very small and relatively unimportant piece in a giant puzzle that we call life, and cosmos. Puts things back into perspective.

More impressive than a million dollar budget spend on mindless special effects for overkill destructions, endless pathetic dialogues, and those monumental soundtracks trying to push emotions.

When the time has come for me one day, I hope I will be able to face it in the same accepting and unexcited attitude like that woman at the end of that movie.

I spend some time during a "Praktikum" on the diying station of a hospital, and later some time in a Hospice. I sat together with people that were dying. Most people I saw dying refused to accept that this time it was not somebody else, but they themselves. they still made plans. Looked to a future. And quite a good ammount of them made a stirr of their dying, if they still had the power, and still were by healthy sanity. Only a very few were able to let loose everything, in peace, and acceptance. Interestingly, most of these rejected any kind of support by Christians priests that were available. Maybe a coincidence, but I never asked. They had found their own answers, and did not depend on hear-say and books anymore. That one opened my eyes quite a bit. The staff considered me to be an alien, and demanded me to "do" more, and to "speak" more. Fools.


I don't know? I think the woman showed a great weakness by giving up and giving into the inevitable. A better sense of strength on her part would have been to try to survive no matter what.

I found Kate Winslet's character "Ruth" more of a strong figure for women since she decided she wanted to live even after her new found love "Jack" had expired in the freezing cold waters of the north Atlantic. She was nearly half dead as she laid there on a piece of wood and decided to live. She could have just as easily given up and expired herself if she had wanted to.

The woman in "open waters" only showed strength by letting go of her already dead spouse - her security banket. She then made a choice to die rather than put up with the fear of the sharks and the unknown for any longer. Perhaps she would have met the same fate as her husband, but perhaps not? By killing herself she didn't allow her fate any choice. That is truely weak. I have no respect for people who off themselves, for it shows a complete lack of respect towards God or a higher being, a lack of respect for those loved ones who get left behind, and is a truely selfish act in all regards.

I think it would have been better had she tried to survive. Perhaps she could have used that knife to help her feed off her already dead husband? His body could have been used to help preserve her life and I think that is what he or anyone would want for their loved ones. Ever see the movie "Alive"? Those people showed true strength and courage. They did what they had to do to survive.

[Skybird]

Okay, what would you have done with twenty increasingly frenetical sharks around you, blood in the water, the fishes one armslength away, your husband been eaten just seconds ago, no knife, no land and no boat and no plane in sight, your body's energy down, all physical reserves gone, no water, no food, no nothing? She had been very emotional the day before, and in despair. Now she was calm, composed: no tears, no gestures noone wold see, not one thing too much anymore. She knew that there was no more escape, that she needed to face what was inevitable, and that whatever she might think of wouldn'T change anything in that she would be next. That is the meaning of this gesture - letting go her oxygene pack, and all equipement: saying farewell, giving up all safties, all security lines to life, knowing there is no return. What do you mean by carrying on to fight - with just seconds or minutes to live any longer? That she did not carry on a hopeless fight, but despite her fear somewhat surrendered to life having it's way - giving up the demand to be master of her fate: this is what moves me. I think it was very high time to clear her mind and letting go all attachement to life. The film showed it all within just one minute, from the final kiss for her dead husband, over his body beeing pulled under water and her giving up of equipment, to her final disappearing under the surface.

Really I would like to see how you "carry on a fight" with hopelessly many sharks around you, just seconds away from eating you up. I think by giving it this twist in interpretation you try to avoid the psychologic tension and the message this scene and this movie is all about: that there is a point where you simply cannot carry on with any fight, cannot carry on to live any life, any whatever. End. Finish. No more second chances, no happy end, no next day, no miracle. No hope. No rescue. Rien ne vas plus. Out. Stop living. Face pain, fear, dying. Be dead. Be gone. Be no more.

Open Water - like I watch at that movie now, those two words are almost like a koan about life to me. Strange, how it goes sometimes, that something so banal like this film (that maybe was not planned to be so "philosophically striking") suddenly could make you thinking and reflecting.

[SubSerpent]

Okay, what would you have done with twenty increasingly frenetical sharks around you, blood in the water, the fishes one armslength away? She knew that there was no more escape, that she needed to face what was inevitable. That is the meaning of this gesture - letting go her oxygene pack., and all equipement. Saying farewell, knowing there is no return. What do you mean by carrying on to fight - with just seconds or minutes to live any longer? That she did not carrying on a hopeless fight, but depsite her fear somewhat surrendered to life having it's way - giving up the demand to be master of her fate: this is what moves me. I think it was very high time to clear her mind and letting go all attachement to life. The film showed it all within just one minute, from the final kiss for her dead husband, over his bpody beeing pulled under water and her giving up of equipement, to her final disappearing under the surface.Really I would like to see how you "carry on a fight" with hopelessly many sharks around you, just seconds away from eating you up. I think by giving it this twist in interpretation you try to avoid the message this scene and this movie is all about. that there is a point where you simply cannot carry on any fight, any life, any whatever. End. Finish. No more second chances, no happy end. Rien ne vas plus. Out. Stop living. Face pain, fear, dying. Be dead.

I don't know how I would react exactly since I haven't been in that situation. I'm just saying that I think it showed weakness on her part and a person should always want to live life to it's fullest. There is no way SkyBird, that she knew with certain that she would have been eaten up by the sharks. Most likely her spouse was eaten because one shark had bled him pretty good and the rest of the sharks came in for the rest of him. Her wound wasn't nearly as bad and was not bleeding nearly as much as his wound. Was she psychic or something? How could she know that she was going to die? She clammed up and gave her hand over to death willingly to lead her to the grave. That is being a coward IMHO!

[Skybird]

No, there is a short sequence before this final scene, or maybe in it's middle, I do not exactly remember: just some seconds, that show her position in the water from above - and the water below and around her densly infested with sharks almost touching her, like bubbles crowd inside a pot with boiling water. The message of that scene is very clear: this is the undisputable end.

Since my last writing i thought about it, and found that I really stick to my idea of it all being a koan. Or a Kobayashi Maru simulation :) A riddle, a problem that cannot be solved. So it must be about something diffrent. The solution may be different for every man, like life is different for every man. Only one thing is for sure: death has alwys the final word. This is the only true knowledge that we have throughout all life, and nothing else is certain, even not the next day, the next hour. It all is like open water indeed. And sooner or later we have to give up all and everything again what meanwhile we got used to take for granted.

Seen that way, your answer then seem to be to deny the situation that the film describes as undeniable. It's your solution, but not mine.

[Takeda Shingen]

I agree with Sky. This is no surprise, for I am always agreeing with him anymore. The more time I spend here, the more I find that my vision of the world and of man parallels his in many ways.

I would go one step further. From my seat, the film places you in the water. You can swim. You can swim for weeks, but you will eventually sink. At that rate, we are all bobbing in the water. We must yield to the depths eventually. How we will do this is our choice. We can be drug under, kicking and screaming. We can accept our place in destiny and dive in peace. However, we must all take the dive.

The film, as current trends go, was not particularly bad allegory. It is clear that this film is not about people in the water with sharks.

EDIT: Sky's last addition means that I do not go one step further than him after all. I stand humbled.

[SubSerpent]

No, there is a short sequence before this final scene, or maybe in it's middle, I do not exactly remember: just some seconds, that show her position in the water from above - and the water below and around her densly infested with sharks almost touching her, like bubbles crowd inside a pot with boiling water. The message of that scene is very clear: this is the undisputable end.




My point being that the MOVIE shows you all the sharks from above and all around her. She however, in the water, would not know exactly how many and if they were actually after her. A shark can swim up to 30 knots in the water, a human - perhaps 2 - 3 knots. If the sharks wanted to eat her they would have, but there isn't enough proof that they would have.

Carpe Diem! It means "Seize the day"! In other words take your life into your own hands and don't give up fighting no matter what. She would have shown to be a much stronger character had she gone out kicking and screaming in her final moments with the sharks if they ate her. It would have at least shown that she wanted to live but was given no choice = God's Will!

Yes I agree with you. We all do eventually have to face the fact that we are going someday die but in her case she decided to off herself and not take the chance - the chance to live. Perhaps this was a test for her from God? A test in God's eyes that she failed. Millions of people in this world and throughout time have had to take such test. I believe that each and every single person in this world has a test or a struggle given to them from God. That test is your FAITH, without it in your final moments, you cannot be saved. She abandoned her faith that God would be there for her no matter what. No matter how much pain, no matter how much it scared her, no matter what. She let go of her God's hand (more like slapped it away) and she allowed herself to fall out of his good grace and go to the place where she went. Suicides go to Hell! And she thought the sharks were bad? HuH! She ain't seen nothing yet!

ALSO NOTE:

She even admitted her weakness in the middle of the movie if you remember to her husband by stating, "Oh God, I don't think I could go on without (or if I lost) you". He was obviously her heart and when he died - she died. She was weak for this. She had already made up in her mind to die if he did or wasn't around anymore. She didn't want live life without him so she killed herself (being truely selfish). Same thing happened in the movie "Legend's of the Fall" with Brad Pitt. His character no longer needed or longed to be with Madeline Stowe's character and she could no longer bare it. She too chose to killed herself! WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!!

Also, the male character, though badly bitten by the sharks, wanted to live. He didn't just give up and say the hell with it. He had no choice = God's Will!

[SubSerpent]

If you lose your faith Skybird or anyone else in this forum, or if you ever go through a tough time in your life, are afraid, and need faith, always remember this song. Listen to the words. Allow them to consume you. Just imagine, there is a God that loves you and is with you ALWAYS no matter what...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3072636374839271999&sourceid=zeitgeist

[Type941]

The movie shows quite well how human error, stupidity, forgetfulness and negligence can lead to fatal and ugly outcome.

This isn't landing an airplane on the manual, or saving the world by blowing up a nuke over it, or reciving a last second message before firing a ballistic missile of a submarine. Etc, etc.

[Takeda Shingen]

My point being that the MOVIE shows you all the sharks from above and all around her. She however, in the water, would not know exactly how many and if they were actually after her. A shark can swim up to 30 knots in the water, a human - perhaps 2 - 3 knots. If the sharks wanted to eat her they would have, but there isn't enough proof that they would have.

Carpe Diem! It means "Seize the day"! In other words take your life into your own hands and don't give up fighting no matter what. She would have shown to be a much stronger character had she gone out kicking and screaming in her final moments with the sharks if they ate her. It would have at least shown that she wanted to live but was given no choice = God's Will!

Yes I agree with you. We all do eventually have to face the fact that we are going someday die but in her case she decided to off herself and not take the chance - the chance to live. Perhaps this was a test for her from God? A test in God's eyes that she failed. Millions of people in this world and throughout time have had to take such test. I believe that each and every single person in this world has a test or a struggle given to them from God. That test is your FAITH, without it in your final moments, you cannot be saved. She abandoned her faith that God would be there for her no matter what. No matter how much pain, no matter how much it scared her, no matter what. She let go of her God's hand (more like slapped it away) and she allowed herself to fall out of his good grace and go to the place where she went. Suicides go to Hell! And she thought the sharks were bad? HuH! She ain't seen nothing yet!

ALSO NOTE:

She even admitted her weakness in the middle of the movie if you remember to her husband by stating, "Oh God, I don't think I could go on without (or if I lost) you". He was obviously her heart and when he died - she died. She was weak for this. She had already made up in her mind to die if he did or wasn't around anymore. She didn't want live life without him so she killed herself (being truely selfish). Same thing happened in the movie "Legend's of the Fall" with Brad Pitt. His character no longer needed or longed to be with Madeline Stowe's character and she could no longer bare it. She too chose to killed herself! WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!!

Also, the male character, though badly bitten by the sharks, wanted to live. He didn't just give up and say the hell with it. He had no choice = God's Will!

That you are in the water with the beasts is God's will. The beasts are innumberable, and God has placed you in a setting where temporal victory is impossible. Is the surrender to the innevitable not, then, the ultimate compliance with God? Does it not surrender the will of the Self to the will of the Eternal? Is this not what is required of all who believe?

St. Peter gave into the innevitable. St. John the Baptist gave in to the innevitable. Do they burn in Hell? Or did they, perhaps, see victory in the spectre of death? Was their acceptance of fate any different than the female protagonist's?

[Skybird]

Serpent, somwehere you lost me... Too much hairsplitting. Also, I do not believe in written words. I was banned and freed repeatedly from religious lessons at school for having asked to many questions :lol:

I agree with Sky. This is no surprise, for I am always agreeing with him anymore. The more time I spend here, the more I find that my vision of the world and of man parallels his in many ways.

Good to know! So, when I have a busy day and am short of time, can I eventually ask you to write my threads for me, then? :lol:

[Takeda Shingen]

I agree with Sky. This is no surprise, for I am always agreeing with him anymore. The more time I spend here, the more I find that my vision of the world and of man parallels his in many ways.

Good to know! So, when I have a busy day and am short of time, can I eventually ask you to write my threads for me, then? :lol:

No problem. Let me see, you are pro-Brush, pro-UN and you think that the Nobel Peace Prize is on the level. I can duplicate this all over the boards. :up:

[Skybird]

Meanwhile, I also learned about the story of "Open Water 2": six people jump of their boat in a celebration mood - and do so without having lowered the ladder first.

Serious, that is the reason why they are getting lost in open water in that film (that has nothing to do with the original, as I already posted somewhere above).

No doubt that I will not watch that movie.

[Takeda Shingen]

If the series continues, we could end up with 38 people in the water. Think of how that could go: Who dies first, the quiet religious guy, the ex-convict or the Valley Girl?

[Type941]

Serious, that is the reason why they are getting lost in open water in that film (that has nothing to do with the original, as I already posted somewhere above).

well, the syncronized swimmers are able to lift a person out of the water ... high enough to get on the boat... if they dont do that in the movie, then it's quite pathetic... .. (women are syncronized swimmers btw)..:88):huh:

[SubSerpent]

My point being that the MOVIE shows you all the sharks from above and all around her. She however, in the water, would not know exactly how many and if they were actually after her. A shark can swim up to 30 knots in the water, a human - perhaps 2 - 3 knots. If the sharks wanted to eat her they would have, but there isn't enough proof that they would have.

Carpe Diem! It means "Seize the day"! In other words take your life into your own hands and don't give up fighting no matter what. She would have shown to be a much stronger character had she gone out kicking and screaming in her final moments with the sharks if they ate her. It would have at least shown that she wanted to live but was given no choice = God's Will!

Yes I agree with you. We all do eventually have to face the fact that we are going someday die but in her case she decided to off herself and not take the chance - the chance to live. Perhaps this was a test for her from God? A test in God's eyes that she failed. Millions of people in this world and throughout time have had to take such test. I believe that each and every single person in this world has a test or a struggle given to them from God. That test is your FAITH, without it in your final moments, you cannot be saved. She abandoned her faith that God would be there for her no matter what. No matter how much pain, no matter how much it scared her, no matter what. She let go of her God's hand (more like slapped it away) and she allowed herself to fall out of his good grace and go to the place where she went. Suicides go to Hell! And she thought the sharks were bad? HuH! She ain't seen nothing yet!

ALSO NOTE:

She even admitted her weakness in the middle of the movie if you remember to her husband by stating, "Oh God, I don't think I could go on without (or if I lost) you". He was obviously her heart and when he died - she died. She was weak for this. She had already made up in her mind to die if he did or wasn't around anymore. She didn't want live life without him so she killed herself (being truely selfish). Same thing happened in the movie "Legend's of the Fall" with Brad Pitt. His character no longer needed or longed to be with Madeline Stowe's character and she could no longer bare it. She too chose to killed herself! WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!!

Also, the male character, though badly bitten by the sharks, wanted to live. He didn't just give up and say the hell with it. He had no choice = God's Will!

That you are in the water with the beasts is God's will. The beasts are innumberable, and God has placed you in a setting where temporal victory is impossible. Is the surrender to the innevitable not, then, the ultimate compliance with God? Does it not surrender the will of the Self to the will of the Eternal? Is this not what is required of all who believe?

St. Peter gave into the innevitable. St. John the Baptist gave in to the innevitable. Do they burn in Hell? Or did they, perhaps, see victory in the spectre of death? Was their acceptance of fate any different than the female protagonist's?

No, the sharks are not God's will. Sure they were created by God but God did not have the sharks eat the woman. She let herself believe that's what was gonna happen. God is the all powerful. He could stop that from happening if that was HIS will. She decided to do things in HER will. She was not God or a Goddess. She was selfish, plain and simple. She lost her faith, she was easily defeated.

Christ suffered and died on the cross for ALL of us. He NEVER lost his faith through some of the most brutal pain and suffering a human could endure. Satan hoped he would crack (like the woman in the water did). Christ, even as a human, NEVER gave into the most powerful spirit of evil - Satan. He was a man of true character and that is why we should all follow his example. That means, never give up, never lose your faith in God, don't except defeat so easily. That is what Satan wanted from him and yet Christ proved him wrong to show us all that he would not lose his faith no matter what and that we shouldn't either.

[Takeda Shingen]

No, the sharks are not God's will. Sure they were created by God but God did not have the sharks eat the woman. She let herself believe that's what was gonna happen. God is the all powerful. He could stop that from happening if that was HIS will. She decided to do things in HER will. She was not God or a Goddess. She was selfish, plain and simple. She lost her faith, she was easily defeated.

Christ suffered and died on the cross for ALL of us. He NEVER lost his faith through some of the most brutal pain and suffering a human could endure. Satan hoped he would crack (like the woman in the water did). Christ, even as a human, NEVER gave into the most powerful spirit of evil - Satan. He was a man of true character and that is why we should all follow his example. That means, never give up, never lose your faith in God, don't except defeat so easily. That is what Satan wanted from him and yet Christ proved him wrong to show us all that he would not lose his faith no matter what and that we shouldn't either.

The animal has no will. It is not conscious of decision. Man was given will. He was given the will to either obey his sinful heart, or to renounce it in favor of the will of God. Since God knows the beginning as well as the end, He knows what the end of each will be. It is in this, that we accept our outcome. The believer is required to relent; to say, "If this be my end, O Lord, then let it be so. I leave it in your hands." Only the most unsubmissive of God's servants would struggle in vain to oppose His will.

Christ was both Man and God. Born through the Holy Spirit, He was without the burden of original sin. He, as such, also knows the beginning and the end. He knew of His crucifixion. He knew when it would happen. He knew how it would happen. He knew why it would happen. He could have acted to stop it. Nay, he let Judas Iscariot go on his way. He went to the very place where he knew they would find him. He knew that His sacrifice was the only path of redemption for man. It was ordained.

Folklore has it that Christ was confronted by Satan on the cross. I say folklore because it is not included in any of the Gospel accounts, and, therefore, not Biblical. However, to give a Biblical example, Christ was tempted by Satan in the dessert. In each temptation, Satan worked to have Christ 'save himself', to stray from the path set before Him. In as such, Christ was given the temptation to fight for His mortal life. He chose not. He chose death, for He knew it would bring Him life, for it was in accordance Divine Will. Who would we be to deny that will?

That is the example of Christ.

[SubSerpent]

No, the sharks are not God's will. Sure they were created by God but God did not have the sharks eat the woman. She let herself believe that's what was gonna happen. God is the all powerful. He could stop that from happening if that was HIS will. She decided to do things in HER will. She was not God or a Goddess. She was selfish, plain and simple. She lost her faith, she was easily defeated.

Christ suffered and died on the cross for ALL of us. He NEVER lost his faith through some of the most brutal pain and suffering a human could endure. Satan hoped he would crack (like the woman in the water did). Christ, even as a human, NEVER gave into the most powerful spirit of evil - Satan. He was a man of true character and that is why we should all follow his example. That means, never give up, never lose your faith in God, don't except defeat so easily. That is what Satan wanted from him and yet Christ proved him wrong to show us all that he would not lose his faith no matter what and that we shouldn't either.

The animal has no will. It is not conscious of decision. Man was given will. He was given the will to either obey his sinful heart, or to renounce it in favor of the will of God. Since God knows the beginning as well as the end, He knows what the end of each will be. It is in this, that we accept our outcome. The believer is required to relent; to say, "If this be my end, O Lord, then let it be so. I leave it in your hands." Only the most unsubmissive of God's servants would struggle in vain to oppose His will.

Christ was both Man and God. Born through the Holy Spirit, He was without the burden of original sin. He, as such, also knows the beginning and the end. He knew of His crucifixion. He knew when it would happen. He knew how it would happen. He knew why it would happen. He could have acted to stop it. Nay, he let Judas Iscariot go on his way. He went to the very place where he knew they would find him. He knew that His sacrifice was the only path of redemption for man. It was ordained.

Folklore has it that Christ was confronted by Satan on the cross. I say folklore because it is not included in any of the Gospel accounts, and, therefore, not Biblical. However, to give a Biblical example, Christ was tempted by Satan in the dessert. In each temptation, Satan worked to have Christ 'save himself', to stray from the path set before Him. In as such, Christ was given the temptation to fight for His mortal life. He chose not. He chose death, for He knew it would bring Him life, for it was in accordance Divine Will. Who would we be to deny that will?

That is the example of Christ.

True True, but we are all born from God and we are ALL God's childern.

Alas, you admitted the truth. The woman in the movie fell from the path and embarked on her own self venture by committing suicide.

Just becase a man has a gun to your head dosen't mean you should take your own out and do the job for him because you think he is going to shoot you.

Hitler is another example. An evil man with an evil plan for world takeover. When he realized that the war for him was over he opted to take his own life knowing in his mind that the world would take it from him either way. He was a dead man and he knew it in his mind. He chose to kill himself and that is selfish and sinful. Perhaps the world would have spared his life? Most likely not, but who knows? He never gave anyone the chance to judge him.

[Takeda Shingen]

True True, but we are all born from God and we are ALL God's childern.

Flawed and fallen, but, yes, children.

Alas, you admitted the truth. The woman in the movie fell from the path and embarked on her own self venture by committing suicide.

Yes. She denied God's will.

I led us here, for I saw an opening for a discussion of theology: A vein in which I rarely get to excercise. I was more than willing to assume the faulty position in order to have this, and we had a good one. I enjoyed this, and I thank you.

[SubSerpent]

True True, but we are all born from God and we are ALL God's childern.

Flawed and fallen, but, yes, children.

Alas, you admitted the truth. The woman in the movie fell from the path and embarked on her own self venture by committing suicide.

Yes. She denied God's will.

I led us here, for I saw an opening for a discussion of theology: A vein in which I rarely get to excercise. I was more than willing to assume the faulty position in order to have this, and we had a good one. I enjoyed this, and I thank you.

Keep the Faith :up:

[Skybird]

:dead: