Iraq plans to buy 21 boats for navy

[Yahoshua]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060809/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_navy

[scandium]

Uhmm... hmm. :hmm:

Aren't they in the midst of a civil war?

[Rilder]

Were training/ giving boats to a country we freaking conquered... seriously im not one for politics but What was the freaking point in sending men over to die if were just gonna give them back the country and start giving them stuff like a navy... they should seriously be paying tribute to us.. look im only 16 but this seriously makes me mad that we start a war send men over the die and we end up worse then we were, yet were freaking winning


In my opinion, we should of taken the entire country and made it ours, set up collonies, Kick out the terrorists and claim a nice little chunk (if not really hot) of land for the USA


sorry its just my warmonger side speaking out :P

[Drebbel]

Were training/ giving boats to a country we freaking conquered

Yes, and that comes with the responsibility to atleast try not to leave that country in dispare. A stable Iraq (which means good and stable military and law enforcement) is what is needed. If one leave a vacuum of power in Iraw then a cival war will be the result, after which it is very likely a next dictator will seize power. And who says this new dictator will be pro West ?

Supporting a conquered country is exactly what was done to Japan and Germany after WWII. And look what happend, two powerfull allies !


they should seriously be paying tribute to us


Why ? They need all money themselves.


In my opinion, we should of taken the entire country and made it ours, set up collonies, Kick out the terrorists and claim a nice little chunk (if not really hot) of land for the USA


Kick out terrorists ? The west can not even do that in their own countries, so why could we do that in Iraq. And that collonie is a joke I assume ?

[joea]

look im only 16 ...
sorry its just my warmonger side speaking out :P

Yea, that can be easily deduced. Look I thought the whole point of the war was to get rid of Iraq's WMD, and then Saddam, first task no WMD found second a success and then set Iraq up as an independent state. An ally too....so selling an ally ships is normal isn't it?

[Skybird]

Ally...? Is it right now? Will it be, once the troops have left, sooner or later? Two No's from me. It's a problem sucking American and British blood, that'S all it has detoriated to. Bring your boys home. That civil war - already going, say American troops: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15201701.htm - is not their business anymore, since long. Spare their lifes, bring them home. They cannot achieve anything anyhow, and only try to help in the raise of a future enemy.

[scandium]

Ally...? Is it right now? Will it be, once the troops have left, sooner or later? Two No's from me. It's a problem sucking American and British blood, that'S all it has detoriated to. Bring your boys home. That civil war - already going, say American troops: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15201701.htm - is not their business anymore, since long. Spare their lifes, bring them home. They cannot achieve anything anyhow, and only try to help in the raise of a future enemy.

Something we still agree on. 17 US troops killed in Iraq over this last week or two, while in Baghdad hundreds of thousands marched through the streets in support of Hezbollah in Lebanon, chanting "death to America" and "death to Israel".

The experiment is a failure.

[TteFAboB]

4 Corvettes a Navy does not make - Yoda.

Iran will make piece meal of these with their air-drones and C-201 missiles.

[joea]

Ally...? Is it right now? Will it be, once the troops have left, sooner or later? Two No's from me. It's a problem sucking American and British blood, that'S all it has detoriated to. Bring your boys home. That civil war - already going, say American troops: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15201701.htm - is not their business anymore, since long. Spare their lifes, bring them home. They cannot achieve anything anyhow, and only try to help in the raise of a future enemy.

Something we still agree on. 17 US troops killed in Iraq over this last week or two, while in Baghdad hundreds of thousands marched through the streets in support of Hezbollah in Lebanon, chanting "death to America" and "death to Israel".

The experiment is a failure.

Make that three, wow a subsim first! :rock: I was responding to Rilder's commments that don't jibe with his government's stated intentions in Iraq.

[Drebbel]

They cannot achieve anything anyhow

You must be joking ? Preventing a country from an total civil war or preventing another dictator seize power or preventing a new weapons built up against freindly countries is nothing ?

Honestly you can not think that leaving is a better solution then staying ? What does Iraq gain when the West leaves ? Nothing IMHO.
Now I know again why I normally ignore political posts in this forum. :arrgh!: I simply don't understand many opinions posted here. Drebbel - out

[Skybird]

What you want is one thing, Drebbel, and your good intentions honour you. But what you (they) can achieve - is something different.

You said: civil war will be a result (future), I and apparently more and more troops there as well say: civil war is already there. I have said that already over a year ago.

You said: preventing another dictator, I say: the Iranian-made mullacracy is coming and the securityy apparatus since over a year is time and again being reported to use the same ammount of violance and torture as it was under Saddam (not to mention that it is massively infiltrated). While we talk about it, Iranian units and artillery has actively engaged Kurdish positions in the Northwest - since MONTHS. No one int he West takes a note of that.

You said: preventing weapons buildup, I say: the Shias will turn Iraq into another platform for terrorism against the West (which was not present under Saddam, Saddam had no links to 9/11).

You think there still is a solution to the messup. I say since three years that the war cannot acchieve what it was intended for and will backfire massively and mess things up, and finally one day America will get sick and tired of it and sneak out the backdoor with having achieved exactly the opposite of all what they wanted in 2003.

This war never should have been started in 2003, or better, the war in 1991 should have been brought to a natural end back then. since 1991, Iraq already was a totally lost case for America, the West.

Again, I recognize your good intentions, Drebbel, but good intentions alone is just not good enough. You need the means, the right timing, and the right place - all of which has never been available during this third gulf war. It was a folly from the very beginning, and it had nothing to do with 9/11.

For all these reasons, that I consider to have been forseeable in 2003 and have foreseen myself, I have always been completely against the war 2003. after the field battle was over in 2003, I demanded that now that the mess had been done, one should try to make the best of it and secure that place - send freaking more troops, multiply the reconstruction efforts. Again, failure follwed that demand. And now I say the troops have no cause anymore, so get them out and save their lifes, before it is wasted for nothing. And again - for innerpolitical reasons (upcoming elections and not wanting to be seen as Republican weaklings), those who started this folly do not listen.

Every GI being killed in Iraq today, dies not for Iraq or a democratic future of it. He dies for Republican party interests, and get's sacrificed like a pawn in chess, by his own leaders. It doesn't matter if I am American or not - this makes me sick and furious about those responsible for it.

[Drebbel]

You said: civil war will be a result (future),

No I did not

[Skybird]

Yes, my fault. You said "preventing a country from an total civil war" - whatever a distinction between civil war and total civil war could mean. Sectarian-motivated violance cannot become much more a total war, because it is a conflict along ethnic and rleigious borderlines, not political ones.