Revisiting the attack on the USS Liberty

[scandium]

Anyone here not familiar with this event? I'm sure everyone who is may have some opinion on it, and in light of recent events in the Middle East perhaps it is worth revisiting again. So to start the thread off here is an account that captures both the courage and heroism displayed by her crew under extraordinary adversity, and also the controversy that still shrouds these events. So here is what Admiral Thomas Moorer, Former Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, as posted on the USS Liberty Memorial Website, had to say:

http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer3.htm

MEMORANDUM:

From: Admiral Thomas H. Moorer

Subject: Attack on the USS Liberty June 8, 1967

Date: June 8, 1997

I have never believed that the attack on the USS Liberty was a case of mistaken identity. That is ridiculous. I have flown over the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, thousands of hours, searching for ships and identifying all types of ships at sea. The Liberty was the ugliest, strangest looking ship in the U.S. Navy. As a communications intelligence ship, it was sprouting every kind of antenna. It looked like a lobster with all those projections moving every which way.

Israel knew perfectly well that the ship was American. After all, the Liberty's American flag and markings were in full view in perfect visibility for the Israeli aircraft that overflew the ship eight times over a period of nearly eight hours prior to the attack. I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could intercept radio messages from all parties and potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move. I think they realized that if we learned in advance of their plan, there would be a tremendous amount of negotiating between Tel Aviv and Washington.

And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information the USS Liberty. The result was a wanton sneak attack that left 34 American sailors dead and 171 seriously injured. What is so chilling and cold-blooded, of course, is that they could kill as many Americans as they did in confidence that Washington would cooperate in quelling any public outcry.

I have to conclude that it was Israel's intent to sink the Liberty and leave as few survivors as possible. Up to the point where the torpedo boats were sent in, you could speculate on that point. You have to remember that the Liberty was an intelligence ship, not a fighting ship, and its only defensive weapons were a pair of 50-caliber machine guns both aft and on the forecastle. There was little the men could do to fight off the air assault from Israeli jets that pounded the Liberty with bombs, rockets, napalm and machine gun fire for 25 minutes.

With the Liberty riddled with holes, fires burning, and scores of casualties, three Israeli torpedo boats closed in for the kill. The second of three torpedoes ripped through a compartment at amidships, drowning 25 of the men in that section. Then the torpedo boats closed to within 100 feet of the Liberty to continue the attack with cannons and machine guns, resulting in further casualties. It is telling, with respect to whether total annihilation was the intent, that the Liberty crew has reported that the torpedo boats' machine guns also were turned on life rafts that were deployed into the Mediterranean as well as those few on deck that had escaped damage.

As we know now, if the rescue aircraft from U.S. carriers had not been recalled, they would have arrived at the Liberty before the torpedo attack, reducing the death toll by 25. The torpedo boat commanders could not be certain that Sixth Fleet aircraft were not on the way and this might have led to their breaking off the attack after 40 minutes rather than remaining to send the Liberty and its crew of 294 to the bottom. Congress to this day has failed to hold formal hearings for the record on the Liberty affair. This is unprecedented and a national disgrace. I spent hours on the Hill giving testimony after the USS Pueblo, a sister ship to the Liberty, was seized by North Korea. I was asked every imaginable question, including why a carrier in the area failed to dispatch aircraft to aid the Pueblo. In the Liberty case, fighters were put in the air not once, but twice. They were ordered to stand down by Secretary of Defense McNamara and President Johnson for reasons the American public deserves to know.

The captain and crew of the Liberty, rather than being widely acclaimed as the heroes they most certainly are, have been silenced, ignored, honored belatedly and away from the cameras, and denied a history that accurately reflects their ordeal. I was appalled that six of the dead from the Liberty lay under a tombstone at Arlington Cemetery that described them as having "died in the eastern Mediterranean," as if disease rather than Israeli intent had caused their deaths. The Naval Academy failed to record the name of Lt. Stephen Toth in Memorial Hall on the grounds that he had not been killed in battle. I intervened and was able to reverse the apparent idea that dying in a cowardly, one-sided attack by a supposed ally is somehow not the same as being killed by an avowed enemy.

Commander McGonagle's story is the stuff of naval tradition. Badly wounded in the first air attack, lying on the deck and losing blood, he refused any treatment that would take him from his battle station on the bridge. He continued to direct the ship's defense, the control of flooding and fire, and by his own example inspired the survivors to heroic efforts to save the ship. He did not relinquish his post until hours later, after having directed the crippled ship's navigation to a rendezvous with a U.S. destroyer and final arrival in Malta.

I must have gone to the White House 15 times or more to watch the President personally award the Congressional Medal of Honor to Americans of special valor. So it irked the hell out of me when McGonagle's ceremony was relegated to the obscurity of the Washington Navy Yard and the medal was presented by the Secretary of the Navy. This was a back-handed slap. Everyone else received their medal at the White House. President Johnson must have been concerned about the reaction of the Israeli lobby.

The Liberty Veterans Association deserves the encouragement of everyone who wants the facts of the Liberty incident revealed and proper homage paid to the men who lost their lives, to their families, and to the survivors. I have attended many of their reunions and am always impressed with the cohesion of the Liberty family. They arrive in town with their whole entourage grandmas, grandpas, grandchildren. They promote the memory of the boys who were killed and I respect them for that. They are mostly from small country towns, probably a lot like Eufaula, Alabama, where I grew up, and they represent the basic core of America that has enabled us to be a superpower for so long. These are the kind of people who will make certain that our Liberty and freedom survive if fighting is what it takes.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I started a thread many, many moons ago on this IIRC. IMO, not a case of mistaken identity.

PD

[bradclark1]

I burnt myself out in the last thread on this subject. That was how Abraham and I got introduced.
Israel knew what they were doing.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

After reading those sites, the only reason I'm not yet 100% dead set on it being deliberate is that no one had come up with an adequate motive. And the whole thing was so botched (if it was an accident) that the Israelis would probably look better (if more evil) to say they had done it on purpose.

[Yahoshua]

Or to throw a whole new aspect into it: Libyan fighter pilots flying jets with Israel's markings.

It's not too far out there to attack the United States posing as Israel and have the U.S. crush her own ally.

I'm just throwing a possibility out there. Personally I can't really decide who did what, much like the JFK asassination. We know it happened, we think we know who did it but have no solid evidence of it actually being them.

[scandium]

Admiral Moorer, in the memo I quoted, suggests the motive:

"I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could intercept radio messages from all parties and potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize the Golan Heights from Syria despite President Johnson's known opposition to such a move. I think they realized that if we learned in advance of their plan, there would be a tremendous amount of negotiating between Tel Aviv and Washington.

And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could prevent Washington from becoming aware of what Israel was up to by destroying the primary source of acquiring that information the USS Liberty."

[scandium]

Or to throw a whole new aspect into it: Libyan fighter pilots flying jets with Israel's markings.

It's not too far out there to attack the United States posing as Israel and have the U.S. crush her own ally.
I would encourage you to read more about the attack before you try and proceed any further with this 'theory', as Israel has already admitted that they carried out the attack, and this is not in question. What the debate is over, is as to whether it was deliberate - as many Liberty survivors and US officials have asserted - or whether it was a case of mistaken identity, which is and has always been the Israeli position; and a related debate is if it was deliberate, what was their motive and beyond any motive, why conduct such a cowardly sneak attack on an all but defenceless ship flying the US flag and in international waters? And finally, one last question - whether a tragic accident or deliberate attack, why has so much effort been put into hushing this up?

http://www.ussliberty.org/excuse.htm

PRELIMINARY INQUIRY

Before: Sgan-Aluf I. Yerushalmi

DECISION

On Thursday 8th June, 1967, at approximately 1400 hours, aircraft of the Israel Air Force attacked a vessel situated about 20 miles north-west of El-Arish, and some 14 miles off the shore of Bardawil. About half an hour later torpedo boats of the Israel Navy attacked the same vessel and hit it with a torpedo. Soon, during the attack by the torpedo boats, it became clear that the vessel thought to be an enemy ship, was a vessel named "Liberty", of the United States Navy. The attack was immediately broken-off, but most regrettably, only after, as transpired, loss of life and material damage had been caused...
And on a related note:

http://www.ussliberty.org/spector.htm


Mon, 13 Oct '03

"It Was A Mistake"

By ANN Correspondent Dave Bender

For the first time, we're getting details of a mystery attack by Israeli warplanes against an American ship, the USS Liberty, during the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. The details come from the pilot who instigated the mistaken raid.

"There was a mistake. Mistakes happen. As far as I know, the mistake was of the USS Liberty being there in the first place," said Brigadier Gen. Yiftah Spector. The Jerusalem Post reports he was given the boot by the Israeli Air Force after protesting the policy of "target killings" against Palestinian leaders in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Spector was flying a Mirage III fighter jet code named "Kursa" (English: couch). He was the first pilot to reach the ship, about 20 nautical miles west of Gaza. Spector had been on a combat air patrol mission. His Mirage carried no air-to-ground ordnance. The Liberty was a US military intel-gathering ship actually sent to support the Israelis in their war against Syria, Egypt and other Arab countries. The Israeli air strikes against the Liberty killed 34 US sailors and wounded 172.

"I did not fire on the Liberty as a human target. I was sent to attack a sailing vessel. This ship was on an escape route from the El Arish area, which at that same moment had heavy smoke rising from it," Spector said. "It was thought to be an Egyptian vessel. This ship positively did not have any symbol or flag that I could see. What I was concerned with was that it was not one of ours. I looked for the symbol of our navy, which was a large white cross on its deck," he told the Jerusalem Post. "This was not there, so it wasn't one of ours."

Spector is 63 now. He's a triple-ace who took part in the 1981 raid on a nuclear plant in Iraq when Israel strongly suspected Saddam Hussein was enriching uranium. Ilan Ramon was the youngest pilot on that mission. Earlier this year, Ramon, Israel's first man in space, died with six other astronauts, in the disintegration of the space shuttle Columbia.

IAF archival recordings of the pilots' radio transmission during the 1967 attack on the Liberty were obtained by the Post. They show Spector was specifically told to verify that the ship was a military vessel and not Israeli.

According to the June 8, 1967, radio transmission, Spector said: "I can't identify it but in any case it's a military ship."

Thirty-six years later, he told the newspaper, "I circled it twice and it did not fire on me. My assumption was that it was likely to open fire at me and nevertheless I slowed down and I looked and there was positively no flag. Just to make sure I photographed it," said Spector, who retired from active duty as a brigadier-general in 1984.

The IAF, however, indicates the only photos taken of the ship were from Spector's gun cameras, which automatically switched on whenever he fired.

"I was told on the radio that it was an Egyptian ship off the Gaza coast. Hit it. The luck of the ship was that I was armed only with light ammunition [30mm] against aircraft. If I had had a bomb it would be sitting on the bottom today like the Titanic. I promise you," Spector said.

"The crew should be thankful for their luck [that I was on an air-to-air mission and did not have any bombs]. It is a pity we attacked. I'm sorry for poor Capt. (William Loren) McGonagle, who was wounded in the leg and the other guys who were killed and wounded."

He said he had never in the past 36 years met with any of the Liberty survivors. Still, Spector said he has no qualms about meeting them now.

"They must understand that a mistake was made here. The fool is one who wanders about in the dark in dangerous places, so they should not come with any complaints."

If that sounds a bit harsh, consider this: "I'm sorry for the mistake. Years later my mates dropped flowers on the site where the ship was attacked," Spector said.

"I'm the last guy who has a problem with admitting mistakes and asking for forgiveness. There was a mistake, but it wasn't my mistake."
As with all Israeli war crimes, it is always a mistake, and it is always the victim's fault.

[waste gate]

You cannot equate current actions with past actions. Nor past actions with those of the current.

[August]

I never bought the deliberate theory because the proposed motive for the attack makes absolutely no military or political sense.

Where is the logic in attempting to surrepitiously destroy a naval ship of a nuclear armed superpower, one that is ones sole ally and benefactor, using readily identifable aircraft that are totally ill-equipped for the task of even sinking a ship let alone doing it quickly, and back that up with an uncoordinated and abortive surface attack a full half hour later with light naval units also displaying their national colors?

I mean if the intention was to do this and have any realistic hope of getting away with it, there is little more they could have done to make it absolutely certain that it would completely backfire on them. If not immediately then within days. The US Navy is nothing if not through about finding out what happened to it's ships when they mysteriously go missing.

I'm sorry, risking war with the US (or just as bad; political and military abandonment) all to prevent President Johnson from finding out in advance of an attack they felt they had to make for their national survival, and were going to make anyways whether he approved of it or not, would be a breathtaking act of stupidity for absolutely no realistic gain.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

I never bought the deliberate theory because the proposed motive for the attack makes absolutely no military or political sense.

By that standard, Pearl Harbor was an accident. It certainly isn't very logical to have attacked a nation with about 10x your industrial capacity and 2x your population with an infuriating sneak attack. Oh, and not attempt to destroy the logistics, not completely work over PH... etc.

A motive only needs to be enough of an incentive that a person might be willing to do it. It does not have to be a perfectly rational decision when all things are considered.

Where is the logic in attempting to surrepitiously destroy a naval ship of a nuclear armed superpower, one that is ones sole ally and benefactor, using readily identifable aircraft that are totally ill-equipped for the task of even sinking a ship let alone doing it quickly, and back that up with an uncoordinated and abortive surface attack a full half hour later with light naval units also displaying their national colors?

Two words: Plausible Deniability. If it does work (sink Liberty without anyone else seeing them), there will be no witnesses, so it does not matter whether national colors are flying.

If things don't work out, there only hope is to make it look like it was an accident. They can't do that by concealing their colors and going out with dedicated anti-ship ordnance. The torpedoes can be set more quietly to optimum (http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/essays/torpedodepth.html) depths.

I'm sorry, risking war with the US (or just as bad; political and military abandonment) all to prevent President Johnson from finding out in advance of an attack they felt they had to make for their national survival, and were going to make anyways whether he approved of it or not, would be a breathtaking act of stupidity for absolutely no realistic gain.

Note that officially, the US actually (http://www.ussliberty.com/ruskreply.htm) thinks it was probably deliberate. They ignored it anyway. If we assume the Israelis guessed this... then it may become an "all-gain, no loss" situation.

[scandium]

Note that officially, the US actually (http://www.ussliberty.com/ruskreply.htm) thinks it was probably deliberate. They ignored it anyway. If we assume the Israelis guessed this... then it may become an "all-gain, no loss" situation.
They may not have even needed to guess it. No ally has ever spied on the U.S. to the extent that Israel has, nor had so much influence.

That Israel really feared any consequences from the U.S. doesn't jive with the aftermath either, where the promised Israeli investigation into events was summarily dismissed before it could even begin does it? If they had nothing to hide and were anxious to exonerate themselves, then one would expect a full inquiry instead of the dismissal of potential charges resulting in none of the Israeli participants even receiving so much as a reprimand, let alone a court martial.

Contrast that with the friendly fire accident in Afghanistan where a U.S. pilot bombed Canadian soldiers who were conducting a live fire exercise, killing 4 of them and wounding several others. Unlike in the Liberty incident, where the ship was in international waters and posed no threat to anyone, the Canadians were in a warzone and the pilot believed the fire to be hostile and the pilot and wingman both to be in danger; yet a full inquiry was held, the pilot narrowly escaped court-martial, was severely rebuked by the presiding judge, and had their career ended.

[August]

Two words: Plausible Deniability. If it does work (sink Liberty without anyone else seeing them), there will be no witnesses, so it does not matter whether national colors are flying.

If things don't work out, there only hope is to make it look like it was an accident. They can't do that by concealing their colors and going out with dedicated anti-ship ordnance. The torpedoes can be set more quietly to optimum (http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com/essays/torpedodepth.html) depths.

The flaw with your theory is the way in which they mounted their attack. It never ever had even the smallest chance to succeed. Attacking with just two planes which are armed for air-to-air combat are wonderfully unsuited for attacking a large naval ship if the intention is to sink her. A few torpedo boats which don't show up until a whole half hour after the attack begins and then don't attack with full force, and then abort the attack half way through, is not the way to sink a ship.

Note that officially, the US actually (http://www.ussliberty.com/ruskreply.htm) thinks it was probably deliberate. They ignored it anyway. If we assume the Israelis guessed this... then it may become an "all-gain, no loss" situation.

I disagree. Assuming the statement on that website is accurate, note this part:

...the Secretary of State wishes to make clear that the United States Government expects the Government of Israel also to take disciplinary measures which international law requires in the event of wrongful conduct by the military personnel of a State. He wishes also to make clear that the United States Government expects the government of Israel to issue instructions necessary to ensure that United States personnel and properly will not again be endangered by the wrongful actions of military personnel.

That tells me the US didn't say they thought the attack was authorized by the Israeli government or even it's military command, but rather they were blaming the pilots and sailors involved.

I agree with that assessment and this is what i think actually happened.

The pilots sent out to search for Egyptian ships carrying reinforcements, saw an old Liberty ship flying the US flag and believed it to be an enemy ruse, something certainly not unheard of in the history of naval warfare. Remember this was 22 years after the end of WW2, for the nuclear powered US navy to still be operating an old, throwaway, cargo ship might easily ring false in the eyes of a young pilot. On the other hand the Egyptian navy using one would certainly be believable.

Their "fangs" already out they attacked, calling in surface backup because they realized they had little chance of sinking the ship armed only with guns and air-to-air missles.

The torpedo boats show up and seeing what they've been led to expect to see, launch a salvo of torpedos before someone spots the US flag flying and calls of the attack. Ever sink a neutral playing SHIII in hard mode? It can happen.

The pilots, by now realizing they screwed up bigtime, decide to play dumb and claim they didn't see no flag.

By that time the Israeli government, preoccupied with the war effort, has already gone on record as saying there was no flag, and chooses to stick with that story, probably because with their national survival on the line, they need every pilot in the air doing missions and not sitting in a jail cell awaiting courts martial. As time goes on their reluctance to admit the mistake and subsequent coverup grows.

[scandium]

Nice try August, but that is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

The flaw with your theory is the way in which they mounted their attack. It never ever had even the smallest chance to succeed. Attacking with just two planes which are armed for air-to-air combat are wonderfully unsuited for attacking a large naval ship if the intention is to sink her. A few torpedo boats which don't show up until a whole half hour after the attack begins and then don't attack with full force, and then abort the attack half way through, is not the way to sink a ship.
That is a total mischaracterization of the events that took place. The force brought to bear against the Liberty was overwhelming, and the fact that the ship survived the attack was only due to the heroic tenacity of her crew under fire, luck, and the armed intervention of US Navy fighters which interrupted the attack that was still taking place, two hours after it had begun. It was only then that the Israelis broke off the attack. Compare your version of events with this one:

http://www.ussliberty.org/summary.htm

In June 1967, jet aircraft and motor torpedo boats of Israel brutally assaulted an American naval vessel, USS Liberty, in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula in the Mediterranean Sea. The attack was preceded by more than six hours of intense low-level surveillance by Israeli photo-reconnaissance aircraft, which buzzed the intelligence ship thirteen times, sometimes flying as low as 200 feet directly overhead. The reconnaissance pilots were heard by intercept operators in Germany and in Lebanon reporting to their headquarters that they could see an American flag and men sunbathing on deck.

The carefully orchestrated assault that followed was initiated by high-performance jet aircraft, was followed up by slower and more maneuverable jets carrying napalm, and was finally turned over to lethal torpedo boats which fired five torpedoes. Four missed. The one torpedo that hit the ship blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side.

The attack lasted more than two hours -- killing 34 Americans and wounding 172 others -- and inflicted 821 rocket and machine-gun holes. And when the Liberty stubbornly remained afloat despite her damage, Israeli forces machine-gunned her life rafts and sent troop-carrying helicopters in to finish the job. US Air Force intercept operators heard Israeli jet being vector to "the American ship" which they were ordered to sink quickly. Those who have seen these transcripts insist that they leave no doubt that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship.

Before the ship arrived in the area, U.S. Sixth Fleet Commander Admiral William Martin promised to provide air support within ten minutes if an emergency arose. Yet when the ship did come under attack, the White House blocked any air rescue for more than 90 minutes. Officers on the bridge of the aircraft carrier Saratoga heard Liberty's radio operators calling for help while bombs burst in the background, but were forbidden to help. When Navy jet aircraft were finally authorized to come to the ship's aid, the Israeli government suddenly ended the attack and withdrew, claiming that the had mistaken the ship for an Egyptian horse transport named El Quseir.
I agree with that assessment and this is what i think actually happened.

The pilots sent out to search for Egyptian ships carrying reinforcements, saw an old Liberty ship flying the US flag and believed it to be an enemy ruse, something certainly not unheard of in the history of naval warfare. Remember this was 22 years after the end of WW2, for the nuclear powered US navy to still be operating an old, throwaway, cargo ship might easily ring false in the eyes of a young pilot. On the other hand the Egyptian navy using one would certainly be believable.

Their "fangs" already out they attacked, calling in surface backup because they realized they had little chance of sinking the ship armed only with guns and air-to-air missles.

The torpedo boats show up and seeing what they've been led to expect to see, launch a salvo of torpedos before someone spots the US flag flying and calls of the attack. Ever sink a neutral playing SHIII in hard mode? It can happen.

The pilots, by now realizing they screwed up bigtime, decide to play dumb and claim they didn't see no flag.

By that time the Israeli government, preoccupied with the war effort, has already gone on record as saying there was no flag, and chooses to stick with that story, probably because with their national survival on the line, they need every pilot in the air doing missions and not sitting in a jail cell awaiting courts martial. As time goes on their reluctance to admit the mistake and subsequent coverup grows.
Nice try. But if you can't identify a neutral from 200 feet during clear weather or sink a small ship the size of the Liberty with 5 torpedoes, then maybe you need to take up a new game ;) As to your alternative version of events, well as elsewhere on this forum your immediate instinct seems to be to excuse Israeli actions, repeat Israeli lies and talking points, and invent alternative stories that would excuse or justify their acts. But your presumed version of events is false here as well.

http://69.28.73.17/documentaries.html

...then consider what Major Seth Mintz, who was in the Tel Aviv war room during the attacks, said. “Every person in that room knew without a doubt that it was an American ship and that it was the U.S.S. Liberty. There were many comments about the markings, about the extra large U.S. flag. There was never any discussion about the ship not being American. But General Dayan ordered the attack anyway. We Israelis were guilty of an outrage.” (Source – Jim Taylor in the American Free Press, August 4, 2003)

We will get to Moshe Dayan’s role in this sordid affair a little later, but first let’s weigh in with what senior Israeli pilot Evan Toni told Congressman Pete McCloskey. He said that while on air patrol that day, he immediately recognized the U.S.S. Liberty, informed headquarters of its status, and was told to ignore the American flag and attack. When he refused and returned to base, he was arrested on the spot for refusing to follow orders. Another pilot confirmed this report, stating that orders came directly from IDF – the Israeli Defense Force – to attack the Liberty, and when he said that he saw an American flag, they once again told him to “attack it.”

And to quote Admiral Moore again, one month before he died, in a statement that was printed in the Jan/04 edition of Stars and Stripes and is reprinted here:

http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer4.htm


While State Department officials and historians converge on Washington this week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history's most shocking cover-ups.

On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship -- the USS Liberty -- killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.

U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled -- not once, but twice -- through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career.

To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of the attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members.

A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity."

Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include:

* Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow.

* Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat.

* Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.

* Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most-seriously wounded.

As a result, our commission concluded that:

* There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew.

* In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States.

* The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people.

* The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace.

What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the CIA and the military intelligence services.

The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent of American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.

These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense.

Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government.

The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States.

[August]

Do you even read what you quote Scandium? :roll:

"821 Rocket and machine gun holes"

Really if the intention was really to sink the ship without the US getting wind of it there should have been one, Uno, Eine, big hole, that sinks the ship within seconds, not 821 relative pinpricks that all but guarentees a distress call identifying the attackers.

"High performance jet aircraft" as opposed to what, Sopwith Camels? And it was just two of them, not the squadron one might expect if they were actually going to try to sink a 500 foot long ship with just air-to-air weapons.

Y'know, you like to accuse me of taking Israels side in every argument yet it is you who always takes the opposing side, even to the point of excusing and supporting groups like Hezbollah and Hamas when they attack strictly civilian targets, even Arab communities in Israel.

But who started this thread anyways? Why now? Who takes every possible chance to slam the US and Israel in every thread, regardless of pertinence? You do. Your hate betrays you Scandium. The sad part is you don't even realize it.

[scandium]

What I said in the other thread aside, as this one is about the USS Liberty and because this is a naval site, I will make an exception.

Do you even read what you quote Scandium? :roll:

"821 Rocket and machine gun holes"

Really if the intention was really to sink the ship without the US getting wind of it there should have been one, Uno, Eine, big hole, that sinks the ship within seconds, not 821 relative pinpricks that all but guarentees a distress call identifying the attackers.
Evidently you have it backward, since you overlooked this which I had also quoted:

The one torpedo that hit the ship blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side.

Is that the kind of big hole you have in mind? Though it wasn't sufficient to sink the Liberty - likely more a matter of fate than anything else - it was only one of five torpedoes launched at her.

And as to the pinpricks that "guarentees a distress call identifying the attackers", again you missed this part, which I had also quoted:

Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.

Also the jets that carried out the initial attack were unmarked.

"High performance jet aircraft" as opposed to what, Sopwith Camels? And it was just two of them, not the squadron one might expect if they were actually going to try to sink a 500 foot long ship with just air-to-air weapons.
The initial air-to-sea strike was conducted by 3, not 2, jets (of the Mystique and Mirage III type) whose purpose seems not to sink the liberty, but to destroy its surveillance and communications equipment, which they did by raking the the topside antennae and electronics dishes with rockets and cannon fire. That was phase one of this co-ordinated attack; phase two was then conducted by the torpedo boats, which, again, launched five torpedoes at the Liberty.

Y'know, you like to accuse me of taking Israels side in every argument yet it is you who always takes the opposing side, even to the point of excusing and supporting groups like Hezbollah and Hamas when they attack strictly civilian targets, even Arab communities in Israel. I have never taken either Hamas or Hezbollah's side; I have only, in those threads as in this one, sought to strip away the propaganda, lies, and distortion to uncover the truth.

But who started this thread anyways? Why now? Who takes every possible chance to slam the US and Israel in every thread, regardless of pertinence? You do. Your hate betrays you Scandium. The sad part is you don't even realize it.
Why not now? And for one who takes "every possible chance to slam the US" then how do you explain the fact that I'm the one defending these US servicemen and attempting to get at the truth of an unjust attack against a defenseless American vessel in international waters and its subsequent coverup? While you've been pretty consistent here in attempting to rewrite the history and portray events in a manner one would only expect from an IDF spokesperson.

As to my "slamming" Israel, then I guess this is where you and I are really different. Following the recent events in the ME that resulted in the deaths of 8 Canadians, one of them an unarmed peacekeeper, and the lack of any consequences or accountability for those responsible, I am inspired to learn as much as I can about the event, the climate that created it, the political decisions that led upto it, and the actions of the military responsible for it in an attempt to find an explanation for the inexplicable. And I do this because my government doesn't seem to give a damn and evidently neither do the Israelis, as those responsible have not even been reprimanded.

However in the Liberty parallel, where there is not only evidence but even serious charges made from those at high levels in the US military and political branch, you not only have no interest in finding the truth, but go to every effort to ignore the evidence, dismiss the evidence, and rewrite events in the most favourable light.

You're the first to tar someone who criticizes the U.S. government with the "Anti-American" brush; to me "Anti-American" is a supposed ally deliberately attacking a defenseless neutral US ship in international waters, with the purpose of sinking the ship and murdering all hands aboard - yet this you defend at great lengths. :dead:

[August]

Why not now? And for one who takes "every possible chance to slam the US" then how do you explain the fact that I'm the one defending these US servicemen and attempting to get at the truth of an unjust attack against a defenseless American vessel...

Please, your hatred of the US is well known in this forum Scandium. The way i see it you couldn't give a hoot about the USS Liberty, or the sailors who died on her, you're just using a 40 year old incident to continue your ongoing crusade against Israel, and maybe as a bonus sow a little dissention between two long standing allies.

[scandium]

Why not now? And for one who takes "every possible chance to slam the US" then how do you explain the fact that I'm the one defending these US servicemen and attempting to get at the truth of an unjust attack against a defenseless American vessel...
Please, your hatred of the US is well known in this forum Scandium. The way i see it you couldn't give a hoot about the USS Liberty, or the sailors who died on her, you're just using a 40 year old incident to continue your ongoing crusade against Israel, and maybe as a bonus sow a little dissention between two long standing allies.

No August, wrong on all counts. It is as simple as this: to understand the present, one must understand the past and the events surrounding the USS Liberty are one piece of the past that aroused my curiousity.