Best Graphic card??

[bookworm_020]

Hi,

Just want to know people's experience and recommendations for graphic cards

Which is better?

ATI Radeon or nVidia Ge force??:hmm:

Maybe I should batten down the hatches as there could be incomeing fire...

Thanks

[Rilder]

ATI Radeon :up:


though a friend of mine said that Geforce has better overall graphics while ATI has better drivers

[kiwi_2005]

nVidia :up:

Really it shouldn't matter they're both good, ive only stuck to nvida cause i started off with these cards. First one was a TNT with 32mb ram then when the geforce 1 came out nvidia practically put the 3dfx cards out of bussiness. I also owned a 3dfx voodoo 2 they were good cards, it use to scream with power when playing aliens v predator 1. Yet they made the mistake of only having 16bit. nVidia brought out the 32bit display option.

[shegeek72]

I'm biased toward nVidia. I used to have an ATI Radeon 9800 pro that was a fine card for its time. However, there are things about ATI that bug me: to download drivers from the ATI website you need to have the MS bloatware .Net installed (who's the idiots?). When I reluctantly installed .Net on my system it totally screwed up my custom desktop that fortunately returned to normal after uninstalling .Net. After the fact, I found out ATI drivers could be d/l from non-ATI websites. But after the experience with .Net and three tech support emails to ATI going unanswered, I didn't want anything to with them.

nVidia drivers are more of a "one size fits all," but I've had no problems with either my current card (6800 GT) or drivers. Though I think ATI v. nVidia is like Intel v. AMD, each is trying to one-up each other which is good for the consumer and keeps their technology on the cutting edge. btw, I go with AMD cuz you get more bang for the buck and I've found most gamers use AMD.

YMMV :)
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[McBeck]

At this point and for a long time ATI has had the best quality, while Nvidia has had slightly better performance/price ratio.

It has been established that for SH3 ATI is the choice mainly because the water looks better.

[Gizzmoe]

However, there are things about ATI that bug me: to download drivers from the ATI website you need to have the MS bloatware .Net installed (who's the idiots?).

ATI also offers versions that don´t need .NET.

[shegeek72]

ATI also offers versions that don´t need .NET.
Well, they didn't for the months I had a 9800 and I checked every driver, including the one supposedly without the control panel.
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[Skybird]

nVidia. I heared it often, and finally was affected from it myself, that ATI drivers cause more people a headache, than that of nVidia - I tried an ATI card recently, but finally gave back the card. All ATI drivers that I tried gave me problems, despite clean and careful deinstallation and clean new installation. Never had any problem with nVidia drivers.Also, ATI chips gets hotter than nVidias of comparable performance.

[TteFAboB]

I have no idea.

I have an ATI, but I came from a GeForce 3 trash, well, I still have that on another machine.

It's not fair for me to compare this super ATI card with that nVidia junk, it would have to be super versus super or junk vs. junk, so I'll just end this post now and let SUBMAN have a go at it.

[Godalmighty83]

i love my new x1800 wouldnt change it for the world.

[SmokinTep]

My Radeon 9800 pro died a few weeks back. I thought this card was great until I picked up a Nvidia 7800 GT. What a freakin difference.

[micky1up]

for now wait till vista comes in with dx10 before you buy but you can get top performance from the 7950gx2 overclocked mine and i get a fraction away from 7900gtxSLI performance for hundreds of pounds cheaper

[LoBlo]

At this point and for a long time ATI has had the best quality, while Nvidia has had slightly better performance/price ratio.

It has been established that for SH3 ATI is the choice mainly because the water looks better.

You sure about that. I'm on my 3rd ATI 9800 Pro is three years (the previous two not even lasting a year). The first burned out randomly. The 2nd had poor fan quality and went into fan failure and burned out. I'm on the 3rd right now, and doubt it will make a year before burnout.

The good thing though is that the ATI cards (at least the one I've bought) come with a 3 year warranty and replacement if they become fried, and so far ATI has held good on that. You have to register the card as soon as you buy it for the warrant to be valid though. And it only pertains to cards bought directly, not pre-installed on a prebuilt computer (like DELL, Gateway, etc.)

[Gizzmoe]

You sure about that.
He was talking about the image quality! ATI, just like nVidia, can´t control the quality of the video cards since they don´t manufacture or sell them.

[TDK1044]

ATI. Not even close.:up:

[SUBMAN1]

I have no idea.

I have an ATI, but I came from a GeForce 3 trash, well, I still have that on another machine.

It's not fair for me to compare this super ATI card with that nVidia junk, it would have to be super versus super or junk vs. junk, so I'll just end this post now and let SUBMAN have a go at it.
Hahahah! Don't make me laugh!

I'm partial to ATI still (So you know, but I do own boards from both sides of the fence), though both companies make good cards. We all know that both top end cards from each manufacturer can deliver good average frame rates (per any benchmark), so I start to look at minimum frame rates, which are what really pop up to effect your play quality from time to time. ATI's minimum frame rates are constantly better than NVidia in almost all fronts.

As for the 7950 GTX hack job (The more I look at this card, the less I like it since you might as well get yourself a 1500 watt room heater and mount it in your case, and then add some small fans which equals big noise to remove the heat from the card itself - I like custom silent video card cooling devices instead - I can't hear the ATI in my case anymore - you can't do that with the 7950), I'd pass. If you're looking at NVidia, you're better off getting 2x 7900 GTX's instead, if you can afford it. Besides 2x 7900 GTX's are faster that the 7950, and if you overclock the 7900 GTX's, you will have considerably more performance than the single 7950.

One thing of note, SLI, and even SLI as found on the 7950 does not always give you a performance boost in games. This can lead to a 7950 being slower than a single 7900 GTX at times.

On the video quality front you have a mixed bag. ATI has held the crown through the 9800 series, but lost out when NVidia released the 6000 and 7000 series which had better video quality and better AA settings. So the entire time practically that the x800 cards were out from ATI, NVidia had the better quality. ATI came back swinging with the x1000 series and their adaptive AA is again the best which is a form of AA that effectively doubles the quality of AA with almost no performnce hit. So if you are running 6x AA and enable adaptive AA, you will effectively get 12x AA with nearly no FPS loss. It does this by randomizing the patterns so they alternate. The only down side is that you mus maintain 60 FPS or better for it to work right (Both pics need to alternate at greater than 30 FPS to fool your brain correctly)

If you want, I can post an article or two to show off the differences in picture quality. All in all though, both manufacturers look good though and it will be hard to tell the difference on image quality alone. The only difference that I can see with my eyes is that the ATI has a 'sharper' AA look while still killing the jaggies. The NVidia has a more blurry look under high AA settings, but some people like the blurry effect. I don't.

Drivers - ATI is more bloatware due to .NET, but they have improved over the years. Task manager is reproting only like 5 MB used now though, so its not bad, but you have to install at least .NET 1.1. This doesn't bother me though since I use .NET for other things, and I bet a lot of people do too, but don't realize it.

Power consumption between a 7900 GTX, x1900 XTX, and 7950 GTX. Obviously the 7950 is going to have the max power draw, but between the non SLI boards boards, the 7900 GTX will have the least power draw, which means it will also generate less heat that you need to remove from your case. Both boards come with loud stock fans though (Do not even get me started on the 7950's fans), but both boards can have a fan swap for a silent fan that actually cools better, so this is not a problem. Arctic Cooling is what I use on the ATI and at .4 sone, you can't hear it. They make an identical one that fits the 7900 too.

http://www.arcticcooling.com/vga1.php

One thing to note - as soon as I write this, Murphey's law states that NVidia or ATI will come back with something that will kill the the other guy, so all this only holds true for today, not tomorrow. This is why I love competition - I get good product for less money - Maybe Microsoft can take a note here.

-S

Oblivion:

Oblivion is the most GPU demanding app right now. The gate benchmark is the most demanding too. Both top top cards from ATI and NVidia do good on the average, so pay particular mention to the minimum frame rates. The 7950 GTX would be about 40 FPS on this list, but its minimum FPS would drop well below that of a single x1900 XTX - since you can see a 7900 GTX in SLI drops way down to about the same as a single x1900 XTX.

Of particular note - only the x1900 XT is tested in Crossfire here. My card is an x1900 XTX that is crossfire capable so I would probably top 48 to 49 FPS here if I added a second board since the XTX is about 5% faster than an XT. On top of that, the XTX has a built in temp sensor for safe overclocking, so if you wanted, you could boost FPS to over 50 FPS in my rig and still have 30 degrees C of headroom to go even farther.

The white bars represent minimum FPS. Notice what the NVidia does in that regard. Notice a single 7900 GTX will drop below 20 on this benchmark.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/Oblivion/oblivion-highend.png

[SUBMAN1]

But if you only have a budget of $17,500, Nvidia will probably beat ATI:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/01/nvidia_quadro_plex_1000/

http://www.ixbt.com/short/images/NV2.jpg

[SUBMAN1]

NVidia 7950 to enable quad SLI in their driver. Seems they are releasing it to the masses. Hope you have some big fans to move that air, and some earplugs to boot! Also - Don't expect staggering performance for your $$$ - quad SLI has already shown that the improvement is negligable, at least so far.

Notice the PSU req! I may be at the very edge even with my monster PSU!

-S

PS. I have the ASUS Crossfire MB that this article mentions.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33418

EACH GeForce 7950 GX2 boards still costs around $600 plus but on August the 9th Nvidia will officially release a new driver that supports a Quad SLI configuration, along with the list of verified motherboards and accompanied with an extensive do-it-yourself guide. This should allow users to complete their custom build Quad SLI systems or buy another 7950GX2 card and jump on the quad train.

Until now Nvidia’s Quad SLI was supported only through "trained professional system integrators", due to Nvidia's gut feeling, that "Quad SLI is too complex a product to release to public without proper support". Nvidia obviously managed to massage its drivers, due to the fact that beta driver for Quad SLI slipped to public at the end of July.


Quad SLI should work on both, AMD and Intel platforms, on any SLI motherboard - even CrossFire ones - with the basic requirement, that it has two PCIe x16 slots. Power requirement? The answer is hidden not in the small print, but in the verified PSU list - there is not one with less than 700W and they go up to 1 KW and beyond.

One odd thing we noticed on the verified motherboard list is that it opens with ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe, which builds on ATI's CrossFire 3200 chipset. It looks like Nvidia has no more bad feelings for its now ex-competitor.


Quad SLI allows 32x anti-aliasing, the maximum level possible today, and offers in supported games the world's fastest performance in any given resolution.
More info, including beta ForceWare 91.37 driver and checklist can be found here (http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_quad_beta.html). µ

[tycho102]

I have a 6800GT and a 850PE.

The 850 has noticably better image quality. The 850 with all the "performance" options turned on looks better than the 6800GT with all the "quality" options turned on. Unreal Tournament 2004, Silent Hunter 3, Pirates, Deus Ex 2, Neverwinter Nights.

The 6800GT is too smooth. It's hazy. The difference between the two cards is really noticable on UT2004. In fact, the 850 with all of it's options turned to quality is too "grainy" in most games. Some smoothness is desirable on UT2004 so that you can pick out an enemy on a cliff. My processor isn't fast enough to fully use the 850 on it's "quality" settings, but I still keep it set on "performance" just because it makes the game easier to play.

There are some HDR effects that stand out in Half-Life 2 (with the 6800GT, obviously), really obvious on the waterboat levels. On HL2, it's a real tossup between the cards becase the Nvidia one does things the ATI can't, but the ATI is more sharp and detailed.



meh. They're both playable and enjoyable. Truth be told I'd probably be using 850's, but my primary computer has an incompatibility with ATI cards, so I'm stuck with Nvidia. Nvidia has drivers for Linux which are readily available, but the ATI drivers requires you to run a busload of nuns off a cliff. It's absolutely horrible.

[SUBMAN1]

Anyone get the feeling that things are a bit out of control? :hmm: Going to need an air conditioned datacenter to run our PC's in the future.

[SUBMAN1]

I have a 6800GT and a 850PE.

The 850 has noticably better image quality. The 850 with all the "performance" options turned on looks better than the 6800GT with all the "quality" options turned on. Unreal Tournament 2004, Silent Hunter 3, Pirates, Deus Ex 2, Neverwinter Nights.

The 6800GT is too smooth. It's hazy. The difference between the two cards is really noticable on UT2004. In fact, the 850 with all of it's options turned to quality is too "grainy" in most games. Some smoothness is desirable on UT2004 so that you can pick out an enemy on a cliff. My processor isn't fast enough to fully use the 850 on it's "quality" settings, but I still keep it set on "performance" just because it makes the game easier to play.

There are some HDR effects that stand out in Half-Life 2 (with the 6800GT, obviously), really obvious on the waterboat levels. On HL2, it's a real tossup between the cards becase the Nvidia one does things the ATI can't, but the ATI is more sharp and detailed.



meh. They're both playable and enjoyable. Truth be told I'd probably be using 850's, but my primary computer has an incompatibility with ATI cards, so I'm stuck with Nvidia. Nvidia has drivers for Linux which are readily available, but the ATI drivers requires you to run a busload of nuns off a cliff. It's absolutely horrible.

Latest gen of ATI drivers for Linux were easy to install. Just typed emerge ATIdriver from Gentoo and all was good. ALso had to selct it as the primary driver, but you'd have to do that with NVidia too. Overall though, NVidia has had better Linux support with more driver revs, but ATI's latest rev is not all that old - WOw - they are releasing them monthly lately with another released on the 28th of July!

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=300

-S

[bookworm_020]

Hmmm!:hmm: I've unleashed a monster!:eek:

Thanks for all the imput, I just wanted some feedback before buying one.

At least I didn't ask about AMD v Intel:o

[SUBMAN1]

Hmmm!:hmm: I've unleashed a monster!:eek:

Thanks for all the imput, I just wanted some feedback before buying one.

At least I didn't ask about AMD v Intel:o

Don't even get me started! :damn:

[CWorth]

I could not care a less what card I personally buy..as long as it fits my budget and plays the game I want to play.Nothing else matters a bit.

[shegeek72]

http://users4.ev1.net/%7Etaragem/hax0r.pgnhttp://users4.ev1.net/%7Etaragem/hax0r.png

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
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[TteFAboB]

Anyone get the feeling that things are a bit out of control? :hmm: Going to need an air conditioned datacenter to run our PC's in the future.

Considering on an old poll Subsimmers voted the internet was most usefull for Porn (or not, I don't really remember nor searched for the old poll), I think it would be quite a challenge to, well, enjoy the Porn in a sub-artic frozen enviroment. But I would't know, ask an Eskimo I guess. Hmm, ask an esk, that's so pornographic. :doh:

But really, how about a really big PSU-radiator-Air Conditioner combo thing, something massive that stood at the rear or side of the case, the case at hand being sealed from the external atmosphere, don't ask me how CD/DVD drives and cables and etc. would work, ask an Eskimo. So we'd have an Ice Age only inside the computer cabinet, and not in the whole room. You should know, you have probably been to datacenters in the winter. Cold outside, cold inside, it's all cold, you can't barely use the mouse with your hand sha-sha-sha-kk-kk-ing out of co-co-ontrol.

Brrrrr.:sunny:

[McBeck]

At this point and for a long time ATI has had the best quality, while Nvidia has had slightly better performance/price ratio.

It has been established that for SH3 ATI is the choice mainly because the water looks better.
You sure about that. I'm on my 3rd ATI 9800 Pro is three years (the previous two not even lasting a year). The first burned out randomly. The 2nd had poor fan quality and went into fan failure and burned out. I'm on the 3rd right now, and doubt it will make a year before burnout.

The good thing though is that the ATI cards (at least the one I've bought) come with a 3 year warranty and replacement if they become fried, and so far ATI has held good on that. You have to register the card as soon as you buy it for the warrant to be valid though. And it only pertains to cards bought directly, not pre-installed on a prebuilt computer (like DELL, Gateway, etc.)
I probably wasnt clear in my statement. ATI has better IMAGE quality than Nvidia ;)

[SUBMAN1]

At this point and for a long time ATI has had the best quality, while Nvidia has had slightly better performance/price ratio.

It has been established that for SH3 ATI is the choice mainly because the water looks better.
You sure about that. I'm on my 3rd ATI 9800 Pro is three years (the previous two not even lasting a year). The first burned out randomly. The 2nd had poor fan quality and went into fan failure and burned out. I'm on the 3rd right now, and doubt it will make a year before burnout.

The good thing though is that the ATI cards (at least the one I've bought) come with a 3 year warranty and replacement if they become fried, and so far ATI has held good on that. You have to register the card as soon as you buy it for the warrant to be valid though. And it only pertains to cards bought directly, not pre-installed on a prebuilt computer (like DELL, Gateway, etc.)
I probably wasnt clear in my statement. ATI has better IMAGE quality than Nvidia ;)

True, but not enough to where you'd notice much, if anything.

-S

[McBeck]

At this point and for a long time ATI has had the best quality, while Nvidia has had slightly better performance/price ratio.

It has been established that for SH3 ATI is the choice mainly because the water looks better.
You sure about that. I'm on my 3rd ATI 9800 Pro is three years (the previous two not even lasting a year). The first burned out randomly. The 2nd had poor fan quality and went into fan failure and burned out. I'm on the 3rd right now, and doubt it will make a year before burnout.

The good thing though is that the ATI cards (at least the one I've bought) come with a 3 year warranty and replacement if they become fried, and so far ATI has held good on that. You have to register the card as soon as you buy it for the warrant to be valid though. And it only pertains to cards bought directly, not pre-installed on a prebuilt computer (like DELL, Gateway, etc.) I probably wasnt clear in my statement. ATI has better IMAGE quality than Nvidia ;)
True, but not enough to where you'd notice much, if anything.

-S
That might or might not be true.

Some months ago a guy on this forum tested SH3 with both a tope line ATI and Nvidia card. There was a clear difference in the way .f.ex. the water looked.

[McBeck]

On a side note....AMD has just purchased ATI :)

[SUBMAN1]

On a side note....AMD has just purchased ATI :)

This means they have lots of $$$ for development. Seems ATI just became the Intel of the graphics card world. Watch Intel snap up NVidia now!

-S

[fredbass]

I have the X1900XTX which I got with my new system a few months ago. I like the little boost you can give it if you want. It is the top of the line for ATI I believe, with 512mb/256bt. A few months ago, they were selling for about 600 bucks and now have dropped a few hundred and you can pick them up for around 400.

But like someone said, once Vista/DX10 arrives, you'll need a DX10 capable card if you want to utilize DX10. But remember that we won't have to use DX10. You can choose to keep an older card and still be able to utilize DX9 provided new programs allow you to.

[SUBMAN1]

I have the X1900XTX which I got with my new system a few months ago. I like the little boost you can give it if you want. It is the top of the line for ATI I believe, with 512mb/256bt. A few months ago, they were selling for about 600 bucks and now have dropped a few hundred and you can pick them up for around 400.

But like someone said, once Vista/DX10 arrives, you'll need a DX10 capable card if you want to utilize DX10. But remember that we won't have to use DX10. You can choose to keep an older card and still be able to utilize DX9 provided new programs allow you to.

Did you get a crossfire capable version? I paid an extra $50 for that on my x1900 XTX

[fredbass]

Did you get a crossfire capable version? I paid an extra $50 for that on my x1900 XTX

Oh yea cause I have a board for crossfire as well, but I'm only using the first card right now. I love it, but I'll wait till Vista and DX10 down the road b4 I'll consider using a second card. I've got plenty at the moment though. Are you using 2 cards?

[SUBMAN1]

Did you get a crossfire capable version? I paid an extra $50 for that on my x1900 XTX
Oh yea cause I have a board for crossfire as well, but I'm only using the first card right now. I love it, but I'll wait till Vista and DX10 down the road b4 I'll consider using a second card. I've got plenty at the moment though. Are you using 2 cards?

I thought about buying another card. Most XTX's are 'not' crossfire capable. Only Visiontek as far as I know enabled crossfire on the XTX's. I still do not know if you can run a non crossfire capable card in crossfire mode with a crossfire capable card, and just have the crossfire capable card run as the 'slave', where the non crossfire board runs as the 'master'. In theory I think this can be done, but if I buy another board, I'll probably buy another Visiontek just to be safe to make sure it works.

Half the normal XT's are crossfire capable, but due to the amperage requirments, not even ATI XTX's are crossfire capable. It will be interesting when I do buy another board, but I should be good since I have 42 amps on my 12 volt rails.

-S

[fredbass]

Did you get a crossfire capable version? I paid an extra $50 for that on my x1900 XTX
Oh yea cause I have a board for crossfire as well, but I'm only using the first card right now. I love it, but I'll wait till Vista and DX10 down the road b4 I'll consider using a second card. I've got plenty at the moment though. Are you using 2 cards?

I thought about buying another card. Most XTX's are 'not' crossfire capable. Only Visiontek as far as I know enabled crossfire on the XTX's. I still do not know if you can run a non crossfire capable card in crossfire mode with a crossfire capable card, and just have the crossfire capable card run as the 'slave', where the non crossfire board runs as the 'master'. In theory I think this can be done, but if I buy another board, I'll probably buy another Visiontek just to be safe to make sure it works.

Half the normal XT's are crossfire capable, but due to the amperage requirments, not even ATI XTX's are crossfire capable. It will be interesting when I do buy another board, but I should be good since I have 42 amps on my 12 volt rails.

-S

I'm at work right now, but you've got me second guessing myself a little. I'm pretty sure I have the Asus EAX 1900 XTX Crossfire ready card and I'm using the Abit AT8 32x crossfire board. I'm gonna check on this and I'll get back with you, but the board only came out back in march I think.

[SUBMAN1]

Did you get a crossfire capable version? I paid an extra $50 for that on my x1900 XTX
Oh yea cause I have a board for crossfire as well, but I'm only using the first card right now. I love it, but I'll wait till Vista and DX10 down the road b4 I'll consider using a second card. I've got plenty at the moment though. Are you using 2 cards?
I thought about buying another card. Most XTX's are 'not' crossfire capable. Only Visiontek as far as I know enabled crossfire on the XTX's. I still do not know if you can run a non crossfire capable card in crossfire mode with a crossfire capable card, and just have the crossfire capable card run as the 'slave', where the non crossfire board runs as the 'master'. In theory I think this can be done, but if I buy another board, I'll probably buy another Visiontek just to be safe to make sure it works.

Half the normal XT's are crossfire capable, but due to the amperage requirments, not even ATI XTX's are crossfire capable. It will be interesting when I do buy another board, but I should be good since I have 42 amps on my 12 volt rails.

-S
I'm at work right now, but you've got me second guessing myself a little. I'm pretty sure I have the Asus EAX 1900 XTX Crossfire ready card and I'm using the Abit AT8 32x crossfire board. I'm gonna check on this and I'll get back with you, but the board only came out back in march I think.

I can't remember which other card had crossfire (I think one of them does) - it is probably ASUS's x1900 XTX is the only other one that also has crossfire support, so you may be good. Might want to check it out though. I'd expect them to deck out their cards.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Your good - here is a list of manufacturers for the x1900 XTX from Newegg and notice - only the ASUS and the Visiontek are capable of being a crossfire slave:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1305520549+106790809+1067919675&Subcategory=48&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Ouch! Why is my Visiontek still $567? Should be down around $500 now.

-S

[fredbass]

10/4 on my check. I see newegg has mine down to 500 but really doesn't matter because I expect I'll wait to upgrade next year.