On Target! (Civilian owned Assault Rifle article) from Access to Energy Newsletter

[SUBMAN1]

Reading through the Access to Energy news letter, and though slightly off topic from energy, comes up this article which I found interesting that is based on Assault Rifles in civilian possesion.

-S

http://ate.sitewave.entrewave.com/view/atearchive/s76a2011.htm

http://ate.sitewave.entrewave.com/view/ate/masthead.gif

ON TARGET



Surgeon and wound ballistics expert (and AtE subscriber) Martin L. Fackler, M.D., President of the International Wound Ballistics Association, has written numerous research articles that are especially relevant to current politically correct myths about firearms. See, for examples, M. L. Fackler, J. A. Malinowski, S. W. Hoxie, and A. Ja-son, Amer. J. Forensic Medicine and Pathology 11 pp 185-189 (1990); M. Fackler, J. American Medical Association 259 pp 2730-2736 (1988); and M. L. Fackler, Testimony before the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee on April 28, 1994 available from M. L. Fackler, RR 4 Box 264, Hawthorne, FL 32640.


One thing is certainly not debatable about the current "gun control'' craze in Congress. Legislation abridging the right to keep and bear arms is unconstitutional and will continue to be so unless an appropriate constitutional amendment is passed. The wisdom of gun control itself is debatable, but the facts are against the gun controllers. There is overwhelming evidence that violent crime diminishes when guns are easily available to citizens. Moreover, there is an inalienable human right and obligation of self-defense.


Dr. Fackler points out that 1) Assault rifle bullets are designed to wound rather than kill as restricted by the Hague Convention of 1899. 2) Assault rifle bullets actually do less tissue damage and are less lethal than those from most other firearms. This is verified in recent civilian incidents where the death rate for people actually shot has been 21%. 3) In 1992 only 3% of all American homicides with firearms involved rifles, and assault rifles were a small fraction of that 3%. Why then is the firearms witch hunt starting with assault rifles? The Founding Fathers protected the right to keep and bear arms specifically as a final check on government power, which they feared.


Most of America's assault rifles are in the attics, basements, and closets of patriotic Americans who never fire them and to whom war against their own government would be an unthinkable nightmare.


The problem is that millions of such weapons are now being stored in the homes of ordinary Americans, especially in the Western United States. Assault rifles have a military appearance and contribute in a subtle, psychological way to growing resistance to government oppression. Most farmers, ranchers, and loggers who see their lives and families entirely destroyed by Babbitt and retainers will never fire a shot. The existence of these weapons, however, makes resistance, even legal resistance, more thinkable to these victims.


The bureaucrats and politicians do not fear armed criminals or even armed political zealots so much as they fear peaceful Americans who will probably never use their assault rifles - but whose mental toughness may be enhanced by possession of military weapons.


The gun controllers are not deterred by the facts about guns and crime, because their primary fear is not criminals. They fear ordinary Americans whose lives and freedom their policies are destroying. In this fear and in their world, they are on target.

[Ducimus]

Awesome bit of NRA inspired reading! lol

Im split on gun control personnally.

One one hand the vet in me says, theres no reason for a civillian to own military hardware of any sort. These are tools designed to do a job. That job is to kill people and break other peoples things. Both of which you can't legally do as a civillian. Go deer hunting with a 50 calibrer sniper rifle, M4, M203, or SAW? I don't think so. Home defense? sure go ahead, and when all those 5.56 your spewing go through the wall and hit your neighboors, guess who's liable.

On the otherhand theres the redneck yahoo in me that thinks their fun to shoot, and woudlnt want to be deprived of being able to "ramboo out" on some paper/3d targets at a shooting range.

[SUBMAN1]

My thoughts are, a .45 is not going to save you from multiple people. If 6 guys enter your home, and all you have is a .45, then you have a big problem. Next in line is again - the assault rifle - AR-15 in this case. Though it does a better job statistically than what the AK-47 would do killing wise, what it doesn't do well is wall penetration. Matter of fact, that is a big problem in Iraq now. Wall penetration is better with a 9mm, .40, and .45 than it is with an 5.56. So on one hand, what you say makes some sense, but on the other, a 5.56 is actually stopped more due to lower mass, regardless that initial mass will be high - it can't keep its energy going. So it is actually the better round to shoot at intruders in a home than a pistol ever would be. The AK round however is not real good and has higher penetration. Of course, you can't shoot it reliably at over 100 yards so it is the inferior weapon as compared to the AR-15/M-16.

As for the tool, I hear ya on one hand, but I also disagree with you after what we saw with Katrina. Roving bands of armed gangs. A simple .45 is not gonna do it for ya! Things will be different however in states like Washington for example. The difference? You will have a 9.0 magnitude Earthquake, yet everyone will still be here. There will be chaos everywhere and your roving gangs will be way worse for the survivors. Something with a larger ammo capacity will be required for situations like this. There is no other alternative.

Last but not least is the shotgun - I guess if you plan on killing your intended intruder, they only have a 30% chance of survival from a 12 guage loaded with buckshot. To compare it to an AK - they have a 76% chance of surviving after getting hit even multiple times according to statistics.

And the final reason - I have to agree with you - shooting up everything with a .22 just isn't fun.

Just my two cents. I could keep going, but you get the jist of it.

-S

PS. One more thought - Why should Americans not be armed with equal rifles as the military? Why should this be different than say 200 years ago where you were considered weird and unpatriotic for not owning a military style rifle? Just a thought. Sometimes I think our forefathers were a hell of a lot more intelligent than we are today.

[Ducimus]

Well, im not one to normally discuss weapons, or gun control. When i was younger, i was a gun nut. Was hard not to be, i grew up in the 80's, went shooting at makeshift outdoor shooting ranges. (the type where you drove out to the desert with lots of jugs from home filled with water or sand and shot the **** out of them with every assorted arm you could buy back then).

Fast foward to years later, my later end of my enlistment, i found myself the old salt with the faded uniform who HATED going out to the shooting range where as the young troops looked foward to it. Its funny to me now because years ago i would have bought every conceivable arm if i had the money to, and now that i can afford a few that ive wanted, the intrest simply isnt there. Point is, i can see both sides of the gun control argument, but i have no real vested intrest in it either way.


Now as for penetration, i think theres one major differing factor vs CONUS and Iraq. What buildings are made of. I think you'll find alot more houses made of stuco, wooden frames, and sheetrock over here then there (masonry or mud), and rounds travel through that material alot easier to my understanding. Your going to get penetration no matter what round you fire, (err not sure about a 22 though it will still go through, but probably wont travel as far)

6 guys entering your house? Well, chances are, their either a bunch of punks that will run at the first shot, or your ****ed. Won't really matter too much what your packing . Granted a nice big box magazine will help, but i think the reality is, your outnumbered, and they have 6 guns to your 1. Hmm well i will degress one scenario, and thats some sort of standoff. A box magazine is much quickekr to reload, and if your 6 perps have any sort of clue, they'll wait for it.


Natural disasters, hmmm, i can't say much except i wish i bought that m-14 like i always wanted. :D

Home defense, i am a strong advocate for a good shotgun. Preferbly one designed for it that can hold 8/9 rounds. Less chance of wall penetration, the very sound of a shotgun being charged has pshycological advantages, and if the sound of one a 3" magnum 00 being chambered doesnt run them off, or the sight of one being pointed at you, the result after you pull the trigger most defintly will put them down. On top of that your odds of missing are alot less then a handgun or small carbine. In a situation like that your going to be stressed, and have to react fast, and in a darkened house at night, your aiming might be a little off. Of course, you don't really aim a shotgun, you point one at the center of mass ;)

[August]

Home defense, i am a strong advocate for a good shotgun. Preferbly one designed for it that can hold 8/9 rounds. Less chance of wall penetration, the very sound of a shotgun being charged has pshycological advantages, and if the sound of one a 3" magnum 00 being chambered doesnt run them off, or the sight of one being pointed at you, the result after you pull the trigger most defintly will put them down. On top of that your odds of missing are alot less then a handgun or small carbine. In a situation like that your going to be stressed, and have to react fast, and in a darkened house at night, your aiming might be a little off. Of course, you don't really aim a shotgun, you point one at the center of mass ;)

I agree 100% with this. Nothing says "Git" like the sound of a .12 gauge pump shotgun chambering a round.

[Ishmael]

As a former weapons systems expert, I refused to own firearms for 30 years. I have qualified on 45 auto pistol, M-14 & M-16 rifles, 12 guage riot shotguns, Thompson 45 submachineguns & M60 light machine guns. I ended this boycott last year when I took my current job working in isolated locations in the wilderness of New Mexico. Since I am generally 200 miles from home, I bought my wife a 12 guage Mossberg pump shotgun for home defense. Since I have seen bear sign near some of my sights(ripped tree bark & big dents on my shelters about 8-9 feet high) I bought a folding stock AK-47 for personal defense. I have 2 37 round clips loaded that I carry with me. That gives me 15 rounds to fire into the air to scare the poor dumb animal off since I don't want to hurt it. If that doesn't work, I still have 40-50 rounds to put right in the middle of it. That should give me time to make it to the shelter & lock & bar the door so I can call the rangers to come get this bear off of my bazoota.

[SUBMAN1]

Speaking about shotguns, A freind wants to sell his Benelli, but I am thinking the Fabarm is a better gun:

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/eliteshotguns.htm

-S

[August]

Speaking about shotguns, A freind wants to sell his Benelli, but I am thinking the Fabarm is a better gun:

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/eliteshotguns.htm

-S

Expensive. My Mossberg 590 cost me under $200.


http://www.iguanasoft.com/%7Ejeffersonian/50668grs.gif

The bayonet was extra.

[SUBMAN1]

Speaking about shotguns, A freind wants to sell his Benelli, but I am thinking the Fabarm is a better gun:

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/eliteshotguns.htm

-S
Expensive. My Mossberg 590 cost me under $200.


http://www.iguanasoft.com/%7Ejeffersonian/50668grs.gif

The bayonet was extra.

Cheap is good! But quality also is good. This is the part that intrigues me the most:


The Fabarm shotgun further dampens recoil with a gas operated system that incorporates a slight delay in the cycling of the gun so as to spread the movement of the parts, and thus the felt recoil into stages happening moments apart from each other rather than one big push like what happens with the Benelli or its downright painful to shoot cousin, the Beretta 1201 series which has such severe recoil that it will humble even the hardiest of big shooters.

[August]

Cheap is good! But quality also is good. This is the part that intrigues me the most:


The Fabarm shotgun further dampens recoil with a gas operated system that incorporates a slight delay in the cycling of the gun so as to spread the movement of the parts, and thus the felt recoil into stages happening moments apart from each other rather than one big push like what happens with the Benelli or its downright painful to shoot cousin, the Beretta 1201 series which has such severe recoil that it will humble even the hardiest of big shooters.

Interesting. If one were to do a lot of shotgun shooting that would be something worth spending the extra cash i think.

[SUBMAN1]

Cheap is good! But quality also is good. This is the part that intrigues me the most:


The Fabarm shotgun further dampens recoil with a gas operated system that incorporates a slight delay in the cycling of the gun so as to spread the movement of the parts, and thus the felt recoil into stages happening moments apart from each other rather than one big push like what happens with the Benelli or its downright painful to shoot cousin, the Beretta 1201 series which has such severe recoil that it will humble even the hardiest of big shooters.
Interesting. If one were to do a lot of shotgun shooting that would be something worth spending the extra cash i think.

That is what I thought. I've put many round through a Benelli, and after a while it gets tiring. THis might fix that problem. Also probably helps with keeping on target. I need to find someone that has one so I can try it out and see the difference. I've put many rounds through everything from Benelli's to MP5's, to even Barrett's, but I've yet to try a Fabarm.

-S

[Yahoshua]

12 Ga. loaded with birdshot will do the job every time when you are indoors and in a CQB situation (15'-25').

.45 WILL also do the job and has the positive side effect that it almost NEVER causes an exit wound (and damaging whatever is behind your target). 9mm is a different story.

If you want a good evaluation of different rounds vs. penetration.

go to a website called: www.theboxo'truth.com (http://www.theboxo'truth.com) (spelling might be a little different but it's an excellent site run by a retiree who has too much time on his hands).

And contrary to popular opinion. Reloading doesn't save you any money at all. You shoot 4 times as many rounds for the same dollar that would buy you one. (Same goes for shotguns).

And in all honesty. I don't care what you own. I want a class 3 M-60 because I like to waste money on an expensive toy. It doesn't mean that I'm going to go deer hunting with it (what parts of the deer do you think is gonna be left?) but it'd sure be fun to play with one every once in awhile (responsibly that is).

Also, just a pet peve of mine regarding the term "Assault Weapon." Anything can be classified as a weapon by the authorities (think nail clippers and airport security). And "Assault" is a behavior, not an object. There ya go. A little english class for ya today. :know:

Anyway, to directly address the topic of Gun-Control. I suggest people go to their local libraries and check out a couple of books written by John. R. Lott called:

More guns : Less Crime

The Bias against guns.

These books both have solid statistics behind it, and I highly reccommend it to people regardless of where you stand.

[SUBMAN1]

12 Ga. loaded with birdshot will do the job every time when you are indoors and in a CQB situation (15'-25').

.45 WILL also do the job and has the positive side effect that it almost NEVER causes an exit wound (and damaging whatever is behind your target). 9mm is a different story.

If you want a good evaluation of different rounds vs. penetration.

go to a website called: www.theboxo'truth.com (http://www.theboxo'truth.com) (spelling might be a little different but it's an excellent site run by a retiree who has too much time on his hands).

And contrary to popular opinion. Reloading doesn't save you any money at all. You shoot 4 times as many rounds for the same dollar that would buy you one. (Same goes for shotguns).

And in all honesty. I don't care what you own. I want a class 3 M-60 because I like to waste money on an expensive toy. It doesn't mean that I'm going to go deer hunting with it (what parts of the deer do you think is gonna be left?) but it'd sure be fun to play with one every once in awhile (responsibly that is).

Also, just a pet peve of mine regarding the term "Assault Weapon." Anything can be classified as a weapon by the authorities (think nail clippers and airport security). And "Assault" is a behavior, not an object. There ya go. A little english class for ya today. :know:

Anyway, to directly address the topic of Gun-Control. I suggest people go to their local libraries and check out a couple of books written by John. R. Lott called:

More guns : Less Crime

The Bias against guns.

These books both have solid statistics behind it, and I highly reccommend it to people regardless of where you stand.

I agree with everything you say, except one thing - Bird Shot. Bird shot is not worth it's salt for much more than a bird, unless you like spraying someone with stinging BB's! :p Ask Cheney - he can give you a better description of what it's like to shoot someone with bird shot! :lol: Its an accident, I know, but I still have to poke some fun with it, since this happens all the time with hunters, and Cheney is the higly publicized one.

Birdshot penetration factors give a greater than 95% survival rate - bad for you since criminals like to sue. Buckshot however gives a smaller 30% survival rate from one round - much better for you.

Speaking about M60's - I have to head back down to AZ sometime this year. Friend of mine bought one and I figured I'd go run 1000 rd's or so through to check it out.

-S

[Yahoshua]

That is an expensive toy......


But....birdshot doesn't go through drywall (apartment walls are thin). Hence, a point-blank shot directlay aimed at an intruders' face will kill them. Buckshot....same deal but it includes a pissed off landlord. Nevertheless, you decide what you need and what load you think will best accomodate your situation.

[SUBMAN1]

That is an expensive toy......


But....birdshot doesn't go through drywall (apartment walls are thin). Hence, a point-blank shot directlay aimed at an intruders' face will kill them. Buckshot....same deal but it includes a pissed off landlord. Nevertheless, you decide what you need and what load you think will best accomodate your situation.
To penetrate deep enough to disrupt vital organs, etc., birdshot has been proven to be more dangerous to the shooter than the shootey (like that word? I just made it up). Proper body penetration is around 12-15 inches - more and the round has over penetration. Less, and it is very unlikely to kill or stop a human sized target. Best plan is - use bird shot to scare the intruder out, and if that doesn't work, follow up with buckshot to make sure they are having a bad day.

Here is some info. Pay attention to the coments about bird shot. The Federal defense bird shot only added another inch to the penetration. Not good enough.

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition For home defense, a shotgun is superior to a handgun in terms of being able to stop a violent intruder as quickly as possible. A reliable, well-made, pump-action shotgun can usually be purchased for less than the cost of a handgun of comparable quality. Also, inexpensive birdshot ammunition, typically used for training applications, is about three-fourths the cost, round for round, of comparable handgun ammunition.


Most people typically choose a shotgun for home defense for one of three general reasons: 1) to minimize wall penetration to reduce the danger to innocent third parties in case of a missed shot, 2) to maximize wound trauma to stop a vicious assailant as quickly as possible, or 3) because a shotgun does not require as much skill as a handgun to put lead on target.


If you're considering a shotgun for home defense or already have one, we suggest you give some serious thought to attending a one or two day "defensive shotgun" training course from a reputable shooting school. (We have a few schools listed on our Links page.) It's one thing to be armed with a well-equipped, high-tech shotgun and premium personal defense ammunition, but if you're not a skilled shotgun operator, you're the weakest link in your last-ditch home defense weapon system.


Shotgun Pellet Wound Ballistics
A shotgun pellet produces wound trauma by crushing the tissue it comes into direct contact with as it penetrates. In order to produce wound trauma that will be effective in quickly stopping an attacker, the pellets must penetrate his body deeply enough to be able to pass through a vital cardiovascular structure and cause rapid fatal hemorrhage to quickly deprive the brain of oxygenated blood needed to maintain consciousness.


Shotgun pellets are classified into two general categories: 1) birdshot, of which individual pellets are typically less than .20 caliber in diameter, and 2) buckshot, which varies in diameter from .24 caliber to .36 caliber.


Table 1 and Table 2 list nominal size and weight information about lead birdshot and buckshot, respectively.
Table 1. Lead Birdshot
Shot
Number Pellet Diameter
(Inches) Average Pellet
Weight (Grains) Approximate # of
Pellets per Ounce 12 .05 .18 2385 11 .06 .25 1750 9 .08 .75 585 8 1/2 .085 .88 485 8 .09 1.07 410 7 1/2 .095 1.25 350 6 .11 1.95 225 5 .12 2.58 170 4 .13 3.24 135 2 .15 4.86 90 BB .18 8.75 50
Table 2. Lead Buckshot
Shot
Number Pellet Diameter
(Inches) Average Pellet
Weight (Grains) 4 .24 20.6 3 .25 23.4 2 .27 29.4 1 .30 40.0 0 .32 48.3 00 .33 53.8 000 .36 68.0


Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.


Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.


Federal Personal Defense Shotshell
Federal Cartridge Company offers reduced recoil Personal Defense Shotshells in 12 gauge and 20 gauge. Both are loaded with #2 lead birdshot. According to Federal's 1998 catalog, the shotshells propel their pellet payloads at a velocity of 1140 fps.


(Note: We tested terminal performance of the 12 gauge Federal Personal Defense Shotshell, and published our results in Tactical Briefs, January 1999. Click here to read our product review.)


12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.


Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.


For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.


Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.
If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.


Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.


20 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition Recommendations
We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot. The largest shot size commercially available that we know of is number 2 buck.


From a strict wound ballistics standpoint, we feel the Federal Classic 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 2 buckshot cartridge is the best choice. It contains 18 pellets of number 2 buckshot in a plastic shotcup with granulated plastic shot buffer.


However, the Federal Classic load might produce too much recoil for some people. Given this consideration, Remington's Premier Buckshot 2 ¾-inch 20 gauge number 3 buckshot cartridge is the next best choice. This load contains 20 pieces of nickel-plated, hardened lead shot that is buffered to reduce pellet deformation from post ignition acceleration and terminal impact. The Remington buckshot load will probably produce the tightest shot patterns in 20 gauge shotguns.


Third place is Winchester's 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 3 buckshot cartridge, which contains 24 pieces of buffered, copper-plated, hardened lead shot.


Shotgun Slugs, Flechettes and Exotic Ammunition for Home Defense?
Unless you live on acreage and anticipate engaging bad guys at distances beyond 25 yards, shotgun slugs are not a good choice for home defense, because of their enormous capability to over-penetrate a human body and common building materials.


Some shotgun cartridges are loaded with flechettes. These are small, steel, pointed dart-like projectiles with aft stabilization fins, and are commonly referred to as "nails with tails." The low cross sectional area of a single flechette, combined with the small amount of flechettes that can be loaded into a shotshell, makes them an inferior choice for home defense when compared to buckshot.


Also, according to Second Chance Body Armor Company, flechettes are not effective against soft body armor, if this is a particular mission requirement for your ammunition. Steel shot also is ineffective against soft body armor.


There are other various exotic shotshells that are best classified as gimmicks. These include rubber buckshot, bean bags, steel washers, rock salt, "Dragon's Breath," bird bombs, ceramic slugs, "bolo" projectiles and so on. The efficacy of these loads is questionable at best, and we advise you to avoid them altogether for this simple reason.


Summary
With the right load, a shotgun can be very effective in quickly stopping the deadly violence being perpetrated by a criminal who's invaded your home.


If you're worried that a missed shot might penetrate through a wall and harm others, load your shotgun so that the first one or two cartridges to be fired is number 6 or smaller birdshot, followed by standard lead #1 buckshot (12 gauge) or #3 buckshot (20 gauge). If your first shot misses, the birdshot is less likely to endanger innocent lives outside the room. If your first shot fails to stop the attacker, you can immediately follow-up with more potent ammunition.


With birdshot you are wise to keep in mind that your gunfire has the potential to NOT PRODUCE an effective wound. Do not expect birdshot to have any decisive effect.


Number 1 buckshot has the potential to produce more effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck, without the accompanying risk of over-penetration. The IWBA believes, with very good reason, that number 1 buckshot is the shotshell load of choice for quickly stopping deadly criminal violence.
End Notes
The term "Magnum" when applied to shotshells means "more shot." Magnum shotshells usually propel their pellets at a lower velocity than a standard shotshell.


Shotgun barrel length does not affect our shotshell recommendions.


References
Cotey, Gus J.: "Number 1 Buckshot, the Number 1 Choice." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 10-18, 1996.


MacPherson, Duncan: "Technical Comment on Buckshot Loads." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 19-21, 1996.


MacPherson, Duncan: Bullet Penetration, Ballistic Publications, El Segundo, California, 1994.


DiMaio, Vincent J.M.: Gunshot Wounds, Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc., New York, New York, 1985, pp. 163-208.

[Ducimus]

Personnaly i keep a dove load loaded last in the magazine so its the first in the chamber. Next one is a #2. After that is a 00.

Truthfully speaking, i dont want to kill anyone. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is something you have to live with. My logic is this, i just want them to leave. Preferbly by intimidation.

- First persuader is the acutal sound of the round chambered. Thats an attention grabber.

- The instant he see's me with it pointing at him, i hope he runs. But i sure as hell wont be waiting around to see what he does.

- Birdshot is the first round he gets. If he isnt leaving on his own by then, the next round says he's leaving in a body bag.

Although knowing myself, i think id probably immediatly reload and shoot again regardless of what he does, so its probaby a moot point. :roll:

[SUBMAN1]

Personnaly i keep a dove load loaded last in the magazine so its the first in the chamber. Next one is a #2. After that is a 00.

Truthfully speaking, i dont want to kill anyone. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is something you have to live with. My logic is this, i just want them to leave. Preferbly by intimidation.

- First persuader is the acutal sound of the round chambered. Thats an attention grabber.

- The instant he see's me with it pointing at him, i hope he runs. But i sure as hell wont be waiting around to see what he does.

- Birdshot is the first round he gets. If he isnt leaving on his own by then, the next round says he's leaving in a body bag.

Although knowing myself, i think id probably immediatly reload and shoot again regardless of what he does, so its probaby a moot point. :roll:

If you pulled the trigger the first time, sadly, you probably had a reason to do so. Just keep buck #1 in there so you don't kill the neighbors too with that 00 when you have to pull that trigger.

-S

[Ducimus]

In todays sue happy legislative society, just becuase he's in my house doesnt give me free license to drop his ass. It should, i think it does, but im sure some fancy lawyer somewhere can null that. I think it all boils down to immediate threat. Was he an immediate threat? Did you feel your life was in danger?

Little hard to argue that when your shot is in his back if he turns to run.

One of those "what if" situations ive thought of once. Truthfully, i think id just unload the damn shotgun and worry about it later. Better alive and on manslaugther later on then dead with an undefended family.

[waste gate]

Better alive and on manslaugther later on then dead

Ducimus,

Think we are in agreement on this one. It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Here in Colorado, we have what is euphamistically termed the 'Make my day Law'.
If an individual enters your home/dwelling uninvited (not a detached building), that is the first act. A second act must be present, if the home owner feels he/she or another person within the home is in physical danger or, any other crime is commited the right to use deadly physical force is authorized. At this point, by law, the home owner is subject to neither criminal nor civil litigation.

The law has been exercised on occasion and it protects law abiding citizens within their homes.

Like you, if someone breaks into my home, I'm not going to spend any time asking questions.

[Yahoshua]

Good article on the "kill'factor" of different shot size.

And I've also checked it out at "The Box O' Truth."

I concede. Birdshot isn't effective enough at close range.

But one other thing that will help you in court (if some trial lawyer wants in you in jail for some reason). Is to not use ammunition percieved as "cruel" or "inhumane" by the public. So no hollowpoints, no slugs, and (too bad for me) no rock salt. I guess birdshot would fall within that category too.

[SUBMAN1]

Good article on the "kill'factor" of different shot size.

And I've also checked it out at "The Box O' Truth."

I concede. Birdshot isn't effective enough at close range.

But one other thing that will help you in court (if some trial lawyer wants in you in jail for some reason). Is to not use ammunition percieved as "cruel" or "inhumane" by the public. So no hollowpoints, no slugs, and (too bad for me) no rock salt. I guess birdshot would fall within that category too.

I only use hollowpoint. It stay loaded at all times. The point is to stop an attack, not to just wound em! ANyway, as said above, better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by 6. I hope I live out the rest of my life never having to pull a trigger in defense.

-S

[Yahoshua]

.....:up:

[SUBMAN1]

Man, you guys in the UK have been pulling my leg! They sell this stuff on your TV!

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1139147929/Ak-47_Sale