For your information

[Gizzmoe]

Hi! As most of you have probably noticed Neal has made me moderator of General Topics. To avoid possible later confusion I would now like to inform you how I am going to do my job here and in the other forums that I moderate.

A member who attacks a fellow poster, who posts any kind of derogatory remark or does something else that´s against the forum rules will receive a friendly informal PM from me, asking him or her to read and follow the forum rules.

Should the same member violate the rules for a second time he will get the first and only warning.

A third violation will result in a temporary ban of generally one week. Depending on the violation the ban can be shorter, longer or even permanent.

Should you take part in a heated discussion please think twice before hitting the Send button. Discussions that turn into a prolonged one-on-one fight are likely to be locked without prior warning.

You can report posts by clicking the "Report Bad Post" button (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/report.gif)

Thanks!

Gizzmoe

[jumpy]

do we have a subsim moderator list knocking around anywhere?

[Gizzmoe]

Yes, here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showgroups.php

[jumpy]

ta
hmmm, my message appeared to be too short ;)

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

do you plan to excercise your administrative privileges in a fair and unbiased manner...

1- not letting your personal preferences interfere with you your fair and objectivity in matters like this...

2- not permitting posts to appear after you've locked a topic, because you might be sympathetic to one side or another...

3- not editing out one side of an an arguement, but allowing another side's punitive and personally aimed remarks to remain...


if you can't live up to at least an impartial review that a moderator should have, then you should immediately have the honor and consideration to offer the position to someone who can and will...

it is for those very reasons, and to avoid my personal opinions and actions from becoming an unwarranted distraction to the place that i've come to think of as a virtual home in the past, and to the people i've met and whose online company i've enjoyed that i have offered my resignation as moderator over at the indie forum effective forth with...

the population here has changed... the atmosphere here has changed... in my opinion, for the worst... i see more and more of a political and religious sectarianism rising is ugly head here, and becoming the defacto norm...

i see opinions promoted here that foster and promote all sorts of predudices, hate, and lack of consideration for basic humanities, that is supposed to differentiate us from the the wild animals...

and i see it being tolerated and encouraged, widescale here...

this is no longer the Subsim forum... it has become the sounding board for the political right and the political left... the religous zealot and the mindless fanatic... and, in good conscience, i cannot sit by and watch things like this progress without comment...

foremost though, it is in good conscience, and for the consideration of the remaining members who come here in the hopes of finding a peaceful anchorage, i must wind down my participation here , and eventually bring it to an end...

when the animals start running the zoo, all is lost... in my opinion, you are not the first best choice for this position Gizzmoe... and therefore i must question Neal's judgement in placing you in charge here...

--Mike

[STEED]

I have seen Gizzmoe in action and he has correctly closed some threads that needed closing, give Gizzmoe a chance to prove himself on the General Topics. :yep:

[Gizzmoe]

Mike, you wanna know if I´m objective, fair and unbiased every single time I make a decision as a moderator? No, I´m not. I have made a few mistakes in the past and it´s very likely that I´m going to make mistakes in the future.

[Fish]

I can live with a 'human' moderator.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

mistakes are one thing... everyone is guilty of making mistakes... that is understandable, and forgivable...

what i'm talking about is unfair and biased rule... intentional collusion with one side or the other...

what i'm talking about is letting your own personal bias affect the objectivity
and overall common good in your newly annointed and proclaimed rule here, a practice that was once the hallmark of the administration here...

listen... don't turn this thread as well into a tit for tat... don't feel that you have the need to respond, or to defend yourself...

to be honest, i don't really care any more...

do what you like... run it as you see fit...

i've removed myself from the loop...

my outlook on things is a positive one... there is nothing in my life that brings aggravation to me... there is nothing in my life that brings negativity to it... i believe you are what you eat, as you are who you associate with... it's the people that make things happen, good people make good things happen... humane people bring about humanism... and, conversely, the same is true for the opposite...

i've seen the opposite end of the spectrum first hand, and if pushed, i can deal with it in the same uncompromising manner that has allowed me to find that the positive things are the better part spectrum... the end which i choose to live...

given a choice, if i found myself in a communal sewer, i would choose not to remain in that sewer, and not to have the fecal effluence rub off on me...


do what you want... i was just trying to remind you, or at the very least, make you aware that this place is more than just another waypoint on the internet map... it has been a bright light for many of us for quite a while now... it is a notable place for many who share the submariners creed, in many books, and on many sites...

i am just trying to remind you... make you aware, that along with your newfound power here, also comes a newfound responsibility...

a responsibility that you may not fully appreciate...



--Mike

[Gizzmoe]

what i'm talking about is unfair and biased rule... intentional collusion with one side or the other...

Never happened, never will.

[Skybird]

Situation in 2003 was far worse.

Neal does not want this forum to become too tight and regulated, he said repeatedly he encourages a widespread spectrum of discussions and opinions.

but a minimum of rules is needed, to avoid letting things become personal. "Personal" not only means a direct attack in words and namecalling. It could also be a general arrogant attitude as well, for that can hurt or enrage people as much, or even more, as if being called with this or that bad word.

I got the impression that sometimes some people use the anonymity of the internet to hide behind when letting go even minimum standards of polite behavior, knowing that different to real life there will be no real hurting consequences if they hurt or attack people too much. One only needs to be coarse enough, then the rest of the world appears to be hyper-sensitive. Of course, the root of the problem is with the others then, it is never that someone himself.

Talking with Gizzmoe I agreed with him, that the laissez-faire had been exaggerated, we both thought, and that moderator's presence was too inconsistent. A mod's job is not to limit the themes and spectrum of discussions or censore every hijacking of a threat, most of these are friendly events anyway, often lead to humorous sidetracks and people having a good talk. His job is to make sure that certain rules of behavior, as laid down in the FAQ and board rules, are followed, no matter how stubborn people defend opinions, and that personal attacks and insults, "circular spamming", arrogant behavior and such, is kept to as small a minimum as possible. This is no censoring of opinions, and of themes only in so far as that certain things like racism, call for murder, pornography, call for crimes, etc. are forbidden to be put up in this place. And here a mod's job can become difficult, when he needs to judge if someone calling another one a racist is justified, or not. What if that accused one only founds an opinion that the accuser simply does not like, having a complete different opinion himself? A mod should make sure that such accusations therefore are not easily yelled out. Self-restraint is the motto. The best way to counter an argument is not to become loud, but having a better argument, or informational reference.

So the problem in the past days were not the opinions of some, but the way they got transported. Not the WHAT, but the HOW. As long as Gizzmoe sees that difference, he has my support.

To me, problems in the forum in the past time almost always were about people's style, not about their opinions opposing mine. It's all about behavior, guys, and some minimal politeness even if the debate gets tough.

[Gizzmoe]

Self-restraint is the parole. The best way to counter an argument is not to become loud, but having a better argument, or informational reference.

So the problem in the past days were not the opinions of some, but the way they got transported. Not the WHAT, but the HOW.
110% correct.

[kiwi_2005]

Yes friends on forums are important. ;)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/mischazion/image8.jpg

[August]

Well I for one recognize the new moderator and support his efforts 100%. Being a moderator on a couple boards myself I can understand it can be a thankless job, but it's a necessary one.

[Gizzmoe]

Mike, I´ve deleted your last post. It´s not a good idea to attack a moderator.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

Gizzmoe... i expected no less from you... it was read by a few already though, and thus served it's purpose...

this is turning into what i didn't want it to... i could've posted what i wanted to say in the other forum, the one which you couldn't censor... but it would be of no point...

your actions here are self evident of the sort of moderation that people can expect from you in the future...

i'm outta here...



--Mike

[bradclark1]

Why not have a Politics and Religion forum. That way the General Topics would be free and people entering the P&R forum knows what they are getting into. :yep:

[jumpy]

Why not have a Politics and Religion forum. That way the General Topics would be free and people entering the P&R forum knows what they are getting into. :yep:
another place I visit online has the "Speakers Corner" - 'Intelligent debate of newsworthy issues' to keep just such topics seperate from the GD forum.

[bradclark1]

Well, I don't know about the intelligent debate part. :rotfl: :D

[kiwi_2005]

Why not have a Politics and Religion forum. That way the General Topics would be free and people entering the P&R forum knows what they are getting into. :yep:

:yep:

Or maybe a "Get it on" forum - here posters that have a gripe with each other can be told by a moderator to head to the Get it on forum and there they can slog it out until they are exhausted. While the rest can carry on with the main topic of the original. This way theres no hijacking of threads where it can end up with members sloggin it out while at the same time others are trying to have a sensible debate. :arrgh!:

[Skybird]

Mike, your behavior is a problem for all here. If you were only half as decent as you try to give the impression, and if you only would care half as much for this board as you say, you would let it rest now, for the sake of this board. And again you openly undermine, attack, challenge and offend a moderator here - for your own bad behavior. You are lucky that it is Gizzmoe you are dealing with, not me. For repeated violations of most elemental forum rules, ignoring cautionings and warnings, and trolling I would end your time here, and now.

[Skybird]

Why not have a Politics and Religion forum. That way the General Topics would be free and people entering the P&R forum knows what they are getting into. :yep:

:yep:

Or maybe a "Get it on" forum - here posters that have a gripe with each other can be told by a moderator to head to the Get it on forum and there they can slog it out until they are exhausted. While the rest can carry on with the main topic of the original. This way theres no hijacking of threads where it can end up with members sloggin it out while at the same time others are trying to have a sensible debate. :arrgh!:
That kind of forum is already there, in foprm of the private message-button.

[August]

That kind of forum is already there, in foprm of the private message-button.

Beat me to it.

[Onkel Neal]

do you plan to excercise your administrative privileges in a fair and unbiased manner...

1- not letting your personal preferences interfere with you your fair and objectivity in matters like this...

this is no longer the Subsim forum... it has become the sounding board for the political right and the political left... the religous zealot and the mindless fanatic... and, in good conscience, i cannot sit by and watch things like this progress without comment...

foremost though, it is in good conscience, and for the consideration of the remaining members who come here in the hopes of finding a peaceful anchorage, i must wind down my participation here , and eventually bring it to an end...

when the animals start running the zoo, all is lost... in my opinion, you are not the first best choice for this position Gizzmoe... and therefore i must question Neal's judgement in placing you in charge here...
--Mike

Mike, as you know from being around the Internet for a while, managing a forum is tricky business. There will be some friction from time to time. Some people will say there needs to be more moderation, while others will say their freedom of expression is too limited. People are going to have different opinions and usually, they really believe their opinion is fundamentally sound. Reminds me of the old adage about driving on the freeway: "Everyone going slower than me is an idiot, and everyone going faster than me is crazy!" Meaning, of course, I am going just the right speed ;) No one wants to admit that maybe they should speed up or slow down a bit.

Skybird, is right, there were more problems in previous times. It comes and goes, and the mods should be here to keep things from getting wildly out of control. They won't stop every argument before it becomes heated, and we should not want to--but we do want to hold the temp below boiling. The mods will have to do the best that they can. There will be posts by people with a beef against the US, the Iraqi war, Pres. Bush, the UN, certain religons, lack of Canadian democracy, British work habits, etc. As long as the same guy is not rapidfire flooding the forum with the same type topic, then the forum will survive.


You asked "do you plan to excercise your administrative privileges in a fair and unbiased manner... " that's like asking a kid if they plan to score a hundred on every test, they can only do their best. Ask me and I will tell you the same, I am honestly trying to be as fair as possible. I do not presume to be smarter than anyone here, or more well-informed, or more educated. I have my opinions and often I read stuff here that I consider BS, but, unless it becomes the overwhelmingly widespread or undeniably uncivil, I let it alone.

To call this place a zoo… I don't think we're at that point. This forum is mostly clean of vulgarity, obscenity, excessive postings of cracks and piracy, nekkid womens pix, etc. It will never be possible that everyone agrees on everything, we just ask that people disagree with a little civility.

best,
Neal

[Kapitan]

I cooldnt b a mod ere :( gotta learnd ow 2 speel me name rite fist

[Onkel Neal]

Why not have a Politics and Religion forum. That way the General Topics would be free and people entering the P&R forum knows what they are getting into. :yep:

If we had another forum for that purpose, wouldn't be long before someone would be PMing me saying the forum was out of control. ;) The GT forum was created to keep polotics out of the subsim forums. Alas.....

[SUBMAN1]

Where is Abraham???

-S

[STEED]

Where is Abraham???

-S

He's just finished the British good pub guide 2007, so he should be back soon.;)

[SUBMAN1]

:up:Where is Abraham???

-S
He's just finished the British good pub guide 2007, so he should be back soon.;)
Does that mean he visited every pub in England? Man! I am so jelous! Tell him I am booking a ticket!

-S

[Yahoshua]

"....nekkid womens pix...."

We could always use more of that.....:yep: (just kidding bud).

[STEED]

:up:Where is Abraham???

-S
He's just finished the British good pub guide 2007, so he should be back soon.;)
Does that mean he visited every pub in England? Man! I am so jelous! Tell him I am booking a ticket!

-S

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: