Air Force One just landed (Colorado)

[waste gate]

President G. W. Bush has arrived here in Colorado, USA.

Thought I'd let you all know that the 'fly-over states' are still important and that W. knows that this nation is not made up of the elite, socialist, moral relativist, pro-abortion infant killing, anti-Isrealies that reside on the coasts.

I expect many of you to flame me over this, but although I don't agree with every policy his administration has put forth at least he doesn't change his mind (like our last fella) based on what the polls (heavily coast dominated) say on any given day.

Give it your best. I'll be laughing.

P.S. It's real easy to bash folks while you sit in your cushy homes while you let some one else provide you with the safety and economic opportunity to live well and prosper. (That goes for the EU as well)

[Subnuts]

Thought I'd let you all know that the 'fly-over states' are still important and that W. knows that this nation is not made up of the elite, socialist, moral relativist, pro-abortion infant killing, anti-Isrealies that reside on the coasts.

Whoooooooo!!!!!! Connecticutians represent! :rock:

[scandium]

President G. W. Bush has arrived here in Colorado, USA.

Thought I'd let you all know that the 'fly-over states' are still important and that W. knows that this nation is not made up of the elite, socialist, moral relativist, pro-abortion infant killing, anti-Isrealies that reside on the coasts.

I expect many of you to flame me over this, but although I don't agree with every policy his administration has put forth at least he doesn't change his mind (like our last fella) based on what the polls (heavily coast dominated) say on any given day.

Give it your best. I'll be laughing.

P.S. It's real easy to bash folks while you sit in your cushy homes while you let some one else provide you with the safety and economic opportunity to live well and prosper. (That goes for the EU as well)

Man, I'd never flame you for posting that - it is so priceless I almost want to print and frame it. :lol:

Hell, I'll go one better and even agree with you: "at least he doesn't change his mind." Truer words were never spoken. :up:

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

isn't NORAD hq somewhere over there... :cool:

is anyone aware of the current DEFCON status for US military forces...

--Mike

[UglyMowgli]

Yes and Stargate SG-1, President bush maybe want to visit a another planet?:D

[Yahoshua]

Or he is waving ET farewell before he goes home......

[waste gate]

Cone heads were from France.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm not about to flame you but I will say... you sound really angry about something. Did someone here say something to trigger this?

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.bleublancturc.com/Franco-Turcs/images-frtr/Viva-la-fr1.jpg

:up:
Neal

[Type941]

Over in Estonia, a popular news website run a story that basically said this: "Bush flies over our skies. His airforce 1 will be over our land for that much minutes. He is on his way to G8 summit."

I mean if anything can define a pathetic arse licking...

[waste gate]

I'm not about to flame you but I will say... you sound really angry about something. Did someone here say something to trigger this?


No, No, No, Neal. I've just recently started checking the general discussion board and noticed a one sided, anti- U.S./Isreal, lean. I have an opinion about the current U.S. administration which I thought I'd share. Nothing more than that. BTW another U.S. gift to the 'free world'.

I was born in 1960, so I remember the cold war and how vulnerable Europe has been in the past. They are no less vulnerable now. Yet, the EU folks often try to degrade the only power on the face of this earth that can help them when the s**t hits the fan. Seems only Britain remembers. Thank you Tony Blair.

Anywho, thanks for asking and sorry about the screed.

waste gate

[Subnuts]

How can I be an "elite" if I'm just plain so much better than you guys? :huh:

[waste gate]

How can I be an "elite" if I'm just plain so much better than you guys? :huh:

Hi Subnuts,

Used to live in Connecticut myself. Westport, Weston (two acre zoning and the whole bit, with daily trips to the city on Metro North) to be exact. I know of what I speak.

[joea]

No, No, No, Neal. I've just recently started checking the general discussion board and noticed a one sided, anti- U.S./Isreal, lean.

waste gate

Love your posts man, nice to see some humour around here for a change. :arrgh!:

[P_Funk]

I'm not about to flame you but I will say... you sound really angry about something. Did someone here say something to trigger this?

No, No, No, Neal. I've just recently started checking the general discussion board and noticed a one sided, anti- U.S./Isreal, lean. I have an opinion about the current U.S. administration which I thought I'd share. Nothing more than that. BTW another U.S. gift to the 'free world'.

I was born in 1960, so I remember the cold war and how vulnerable Europe has been in the past. They are no less vulnerable now. Yet, the EU folks often try to degrade the only power on the face of this earth that can help them when the s**t hits the fan. Seems only Britain remembers. Thank you Tony Blair.

Anywho, thanks for asking and sorry about the screed.

waste gate

Yes yes, YES! Of course! Whenever there is a lare number of people that disagree with Bush its because of an anti-american, anti-israeli slant. SURE! Because everyone knows that Israel and America have never done anything suspect or which might require it's leader to take confession. No of course not. And Bush is a great leader, sure. Everyone knows that being consistent is more important than doing A whats right and B what the people who elected him actually want! I mean whats an approval rating mean? Who cares what the populous actually thinks. And everyone knows that the best way tocreate security for the whole world is to place two ofthe world's largest militarys in limbo in an insignificant middle eastern country so that when something big happens (I dunno, maybe somewhere near Lebannon) neither the US nor Britain actually has any leverage.

Oh and thats a real sign that he cares. HE FLEW TO YOUR STATE! I mean thats almost as good as actually... maybe... I dunno improving the quality of life for people living there! Instead he gives you guys tax cuts that he recoups by simply cutting equal services but because when the government spends money for a service its creates value in said service your cost ofliving goes up by a margin larger than the actual tax rebate so you actually are poorer but you're also happier because your cold war sentiment that is stale and obsolete makes your ass twitch whenever a democrat controls the presidency. Ignorance is bliss babe.:up:

[waste gate]

Thank you thats what I was expecting!!!

BTW your personal insults towards myself are not appreciated. I was just trying to open the debate not insult anyone.

[P_Funk]

Thank you thats what I was expecting!!!
The cycle continues.

[Ducimus]

Spoken like a true flag waver.

[P_Funk]

Spoken like a true flag waver.
Careful Ducimus! You're starting to sound like one of those baby eating west coast heathens. You might inexplicably offend the middle pat of the country.

[Ducimus]

What, did i say something that was't true?

[XabbaRus]

I'm not about to flame you but I will say... you sound really angry about something. Did someone here say something to trigger this?

No, No, No, Neal. I've just recently started checking the general discussion board and noticed a one sided, anti- U.S./Isreal, lean. I have an opinion about the current U.S. administration which I thought I'd share. Nothing more than that. BTW another U.S. gift to the 'free world'.

I was born in 1960, so I remember the cold war and how vulnerable Europe has been in the past. They are no less vulnerable now. Yet, the EU folks often try to degrade the only power on the face of this earth that can help them when the s**t hits the fan. Seems only Britain remembers. Thank you Tony Blair.

Anywho, thanks for asking and sorry about the screed.

waste gate

Well you can have him. Quite frankly I think most Brits would like to get rid of him. I think you'll find this board is evenly split between those who don't like what the IDF is doing and those who think it is OK. Pretty arrogant attitude you have. I don't deny the US at the moment is the only super power but that is quite often seen over in Europe as an arrogant overbearing power.
If you want to talk about democracy then Tony Blair is no champion. Take a look at the amount of legislation he has introduced during his tenure as PM, look at also how it is alegislation that could easily lead to a slide down the road towards a police state, something I think has already happened except most Brits are too thick to see it. I tell you one thing I do admire how Americans as a people see Freedom. Even after 9/11 your govt. hasn't gone down the road of introducing ID cards at some point.

[P_Funk]

What, did i say something that was't true?
Truth? TRUTH?! When are you going to learn that truth is as subjective as a dangling chad. :know:

[waste gate]

Even after 9/11 your govt. hasn't gone down the road of introducing ID cards at some point.

I suspect there are some folks who would like to, but I suspect it'll happen in Canada first. They hate the U.S. so much.

[P_Funk]

Even after 9/11 your govt. hasn't gone down the road of introducing ID cards at some point.
I suspect there are some folks who would like to, but I suspect it'll happen in Canada first. They hate the U.S. so much.
Anti-Canada slant maybe? And last time I checked Bush was down with our current PM, despite his embarassing hair cut...
And for the record most Canadians don't hate America, we just hate the policies of it's government, especially the ones which hurt our country.

[Ducimus]

Waste Gate, have you ever served Active duty in the military?

[waste gate]

we just hate the policies of it's government, especially the ones which hurt our country

I can understand that. Its hard being the most popular (by those wonderful polls)country north of the United States.

[P_Funk]

we just hate the policies of it's government, especially the ones which hurt our country
I can understand that. Its hard being the most popular (by those wonderful polls)country north of the United States.
Wow. You are incredibly snide, even when you're conceding a point. And yes being an independant nation abreast the United States is a difficult task. Pierre Trudeau, national hero, did a good job of protecting our national interests. Sadly Brian Mulroney teamed up with Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s to sell out our industries to American investment. Now a great quantity of our economy is foreign owned. And anyone who knows anything about economics knows that when a country doesn't own its own economy its ability to behave as a sovereign nation is significantly hampered. So yes it is hard.

[scandium]

Even after 9/11 your govt. hasn't gone down the road of introducing ID cards at some point.
I suspect there are some folks who would like to, but I suspect it'll happen in Canada first. They hate the U.S. so much.

A common enough misconception, unfortunately, in a land where disagreement with the US government or its policy, or its President, is now either "Unamerican" or "anti-American", depending upon which side of the border the one who dares criticize is on.

What you don't realize, is not only how closely bound in all manner of ways our two countries are, but how consistently Canadians have supported the US in policy and in spirit through thick and thin.

[P_Funk]

Even after 9/11 your govt. hasn't gone down the road of introducing ID cards at some point.
I suspect there are some folks who would like to, but I suspect it'll happen in Canada first. They hate the U.S. so much.
A common enough misconception, unfortunately, in a land where disagreement with the US government or its policy, or its President, is now either "Unamerican" or "anti-American", depending upon which side of the border the one who dares criticize is on.

What you don't realize, is not only how closely bound in all manner of ways our two countries are, but how consistently Canadians have supported the US in policy and in spirit through thick and thin.
That is very true. And that's why I fear for my country so much. We are so closely tied to the US that when the US falls from affluence (and it shall) Canada could easily be taken down with her. Trudeau saw that possibility and sought to keep us separate enough to assure our well being.That's all but been obliterated in the last 20 some odd years.

[waste gate]

country doesn't own its own economy its ability to behave as a sovereign nation is significantly hampered

Isn't your country part of the British Empire? sarcasm

I know that is not the case, just trying to push your buttons.

There is much that the U.S. and Canada have in common, like those who were, like yourselves, for with the British Empire, and those who wanted freedom, like us.


gottcha:D :D :rotfl:

[P_Funk]

You are a tactless little bugger with no sense of courtesie and one who seeks only to enrage those whom you have contempt for without actually making an argument. Your smug superiority is classically American. A testament to why Canadians are so tired of America. And America is hardly an example of a free society. Canada has done more to protect its freedoms than the US has. 9/11 has been used as an excuse to curb freedom as if freedom is the real threat to America, not Dynamite tied to a Pick-up truck.

[waste gate]

I guess I hit a soft spot. I'm still laughing.

Those in Qubec (the French) are also laughing at ya!!!!!

[P_Funk]

Its spelled "Quebec" and I don't quite get what the French-Canadian portion of the population has to do with receding freedom within your country? And by the way you obviously know nothing about my country, especially the French-Canadians, because the Quebequois are considerably more left wing than their anglophone counterparts. If the Parti-Quebequois were to run candidates where I live they would get my vote much sooner than the NDP (the english speaking leftys).

Now if you would like to actually make an argument rather than snide backhanded comments meant to belittle my beliefs I think it would be a better expenditure of time.

[Ducimus]

Waste Gate, have you ever served Active duty in the military?

By now i suspect the answer is no. Theres a reason why I ask this. When i see threads like this one, the first thing i look at, is the source. See, theres a certain type of indiviuals in this country that are.....over patriotic. They talk alot of ****, but have never really done anything to back it up. And yet, their always eager to press their beleifs into your face. (

I really love the "we'll have to save your asses again!" comments that typically come up in topics such as this, in reference to the US's role in the liberation of Europe in WWII. To me this is disgusting. Its riding on the coat tails of our forebearers, its talking as if you had something to do with what had transpired during those times, when you had nothing to do with it, yet trying to bask in the success. Most of the time such people weren't even a gleam in their daddy's eye yet. The only people who legitimately make such claims to WW2, or any other period in our history are the people that were there. The rest of us had nothing to do with it. It makes me wonder, Is that generation so bankrupt that you have to ride on anothers coat tails to feel good about being an American?

That brings me back to my flagwaving comment, something overpatriotic people tend to do. The flag is a national symbol that deserves the utmostrespect, with the union blue field to the observers left, being the place of honor. It is a symbol that encapsulates all of the past blood sweat, tears and hardships of our people and forebearers. It is NOT a blanket in which to wrap yourself with, it is NOT to be used like a cheer leaders pom pom, it is NOT a hood ornament, it is NOT something you mount on the back of a car on a pvc pipe. Actions such as that belittle it and all for which it stands for, you may as well be burning it.

Im not wasting any more of my time with this crappy thread.

[waste gate]

I suspect you mean like this:


makes your ass twitch whenever a democrat controls the presidency


P_Funk, if you want to attack others beliefs then you leave yourself open to the same. Please re-assess what Ive contributed,(OK the i love you was out of line).


It is much as I expected, flaming, and personal attacks, if cannot respect the opinions of others I pray for this world.

waste gate

[P_Funk]

I suspect you mean like this:


makes your ass twitch whenever a democrat controls the presidency

P_Funk, if you want to attack others beliefs then you leave yourself open to the same. Please re-assess what Ive contributed,(OK the i love you was out of line).


It is much as I expected, flaming, and personal attacks, if cannot respect the opinions of others I pray for this world.

waste gate I wasn't flaming you. I was trying constantly to bring forth a fact based argument but you kept making dumb comments of no substance and have still not made any kind of argument. yeah I was pithy when I said your ass twitched when a democrat is in the Oval office but I am guessing that you don't much like Democrats. Plus you did begin this thread with a sense of humour i believe taunting us Lefties. I said those pithy things in good humour. When you became arrogant and WRONG I started to make serious comments and you just made snide remarks, Ducimus calls it "flag waving". And you are a funny one to be telling me to respect the opinions of others. You started all this by taunting those who differ from you. Taking a quote out of context from a response much earlier in this thread is rather pathetic. Don't try and play humble.

[Subnuts]

If anyone from the Midwest is reading this, I'm sorry for aborting your baby, stealing all your money and donating it to local clinics, and blowing up your Jewish grandmother.

[Yahoshua]

(eats popcorn in foxhole while enjoying the mud-slinging)


"Carry on boys....carry on......."

[Ducimus]

Ducimus calls it "flag waving".

I call it flag waving because to people like that, the US can do no wrong, we're flipping perfect! They think everybody wishs they could be like us, or the least everyone being envious of us, and everyone who doesnt agree with him is a liberal, leftist, pinko commie.

It is nearly inconceivable to such people that we as a nation could do wrong or screw up some how, or that people simply dont care about how great we think we are. They wrap themselves in the flag, and yell loudly and proudly a whole lot of red white and blue bullsh*t.

[waste gate]

Please tell me P_Funk how would you make this world equitable w/o also having anarchy?

I understand you are a socialist (fine with me). Eventually you will run out of rich folk and corporations to fund the socialist ideals. What then? Darwinism rises, survival of the fitest? The bomb is not going away, neither are swords, nor firearms, nor human nature.

This is a serious question. What is your idea?

[P_Funk]

I was talking about this convo, about a serious political debate instead of stupid words. Now you are instead of arguing a succinct point trying to make my beliefs again look stupid by marginalizing their scope. The fact is you sound like a fascist. Life is War! Saying that human nature is to try to destroy one another actually is rather paradoxical. Human beings above all else seek tosurvive. That is something inside that has existed since life began on earth. So to say that pointless wars for nothing are part of human nature is the result of a lazy attitude. Human beings want nothingmore than to be happy. War is hell and not happy. Yet it continues to happen because we believe it is necessary. Hitler believed it necessary to expand into Russia in order to make room for germany to grow. The Kaiser wanted to seize colonial assets held by the rival Empires of Europe. The Roman Empire just wanted everything. The thing is that we have believed that war was the only way to achieve peace. That to take something by force for ourselves was the way to assure our children would have what they needed. It stopped being about territory exclusively once a balance of power was achieved. Now we only seek to destroy what other have so that theymay not use their wealth to destroy our wealth.

The thing is that war wont ever end except when we finally destroy ourselves if we continue this way. No Im sure that the human race will survive any catastrophic outcome. We are resilient enough. The thing that we risk losing is what we have built for generations. our societies. War is a contradiction to democracy. War involves hierarchy, submission, and the annihilation of human rights. War is exactly what we have sought for so long to prevent and ironically we continue to believe that one final war will create the lasting peace. The Pax Romana, the Pax Britannica, and now the Pax Americana. Yet through all of those great empires there was constant fighting. Today there is fighting. War does not make peace. The destruction of human life and civilization does not end animosity between peoples.

Our societies today still condone war. I can't answer what we need to do to make the utopian society. I don't believe any of us can. Theorizing about the end product is a fantasy. In fact what right do we have to declare what the world of our children must be like? If we truly believe in democracy and human rights then we cannot dictate the framework of society for our children. That is their job. They must make the decisions for their time. we must build towards their tommorow. One day I hope something resembling a socialist society exists where no one need suffer unjustly. But that isn't going to happen in my lifetime. All i can do is help topropel society towards that goal at small little intervals. So where do we begin? Well find out what doesn't work and stop doing it. Try and end the human behavior which compounds the inequities of human existance. Once we stop imposing scarcity, death, bondage, or any other form of human suffering on others through both direct and indirect action we have taken a step towards a better world. No utopias here. Just baby steps that I hope give my children a better chance at getting us to the world where we're all living equitable fulfilling lives.

[scandium]

War is exactly what we have sought for so long to prevent and ironically we continue to believe that one final war will create the lasting peace. The Pax Romana, the Pax Britannica, and now the Pax Americana. Yet through all of those great empires there was constant fighting. Today there is fighting. War does not make peace. The destruction of human life and civilization does not end animosity between peoples.
Reminds me of a couple notable quotes: "It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell." -- William T. Sherman

"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace." -- G.W. Bush June 18, 2002

Meanwhile today in 2006, one look at Google World News gives a good idea of how this "War is Peace" policy is playing out in the ME, some highlights:


Rice: Cease-fire at this time pointless

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279485,00.html

US Secretary of State rules out quick cease-fire as ‘false promise,’ says ‘Syria knows what it needs to do, Hizbullah is the source of the problem.’ Israeli ambassador to US: This is a war not of our choosing
Associated Press

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, heading for a weekend trip to the troubled Middle East, said Friday she would work with allies in the region to help create conditions for "stability and lasting peace."

She ruled out a quick cease-fire as a "false promise" and defended her decision not to talk to officials from Hizbullah or Syria.

"Syria knows what it needs to do and Hizbullah is the source of the problem," Rice said at the State Department as she outlined US hopes for a diplomatic solution to the current crisis
Israel sows seeds of hatred

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153433434229&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

U.S. President George Bush has repeatedly claimed that Israel has a "right" to defend itself.

And Israel has repeatedly claimed that Iran is an accomplice in this war against it.

Both claims, from those of us living the Israeli "defence" in Lebanon, are left to wonder where the moral compass of the world has gone and whether justice will ever prevail.

What is the definition of defence and what are its acceptable limits?

Hezbollah seized two Israeli soldiers along the border with Lebanon to force an exchange for Lebanese prisoners that Israel has held without due process. One of them, Samir Quntar, has been held for 27 years.

Hezbollah's attack may not have been justified, but it has learned through past experience that Israel pays no heed to United Nations resolutions and international law and only responds to force. For this, Israel is pounding all of Lebanon to a pulp.

Its U.S.-made F-16s and bombs crash down on the fragile cities below, demolishing homes, lives, a country that has tried to get back onto its unstable feet after an uncivil civil war that had turned a little paradise into a little forgotten hell.

Israel claims that Iranian hands are all over the bombs and training of Hezbollah and its arms.

The hypocrisy is not lost on any Arab, because we all know, especially those of us at the receiving end, that U.S. hands are all over Israeli bombs and ammunitions and war machines.
India ready to 'prove' Pakistan’s 11/7 links

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1750120,0008.htm

India is not buying Pakistan’s protestations of innocence about knowledge of terrorist elements on its soil, and professed itself “disappointed” with Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf’s need for “proof” to act against terror infrastructure that is “intact” in Pakistan and PoK.

Senior officials said the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), responsible for over 80 per cent of terrorist acts against India, was “a creature of the ISI”, which in turn is a “part of the Pakistan establishment.” To suggest that the Pakistan government is unaware of or “cannot control this” is “specious,” a senior official said.

Detailed evidence against terrorists involved in acts of terror against India, including Dawood Ibrahim, have been provided to Islamabad, but there has been no action or even co-operation, officials said.

“What proof was there against those involved in the 9/11, beyond sketchy connections,” an official asked. “See how soon that was acted upon,” he said. But Pakistan and some key interlocutors, like the US, would be provided “proof” of Pakistan’s links with the July 11 Mumbai serial blasts.
Turks Cite Israel's Lebanon War As Precedent Against Kurds

http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=36425


ISTANBUL, Turkey — Turkey said yesterday that Israel's action in Lebanon to stop Hezbollah attacks meant it should be allowed to take similar steps against Kurdish guerrillas operating from northern Iraq against its forces.

Despite strong opposition from America, its military is now drawing up plans for either an air or ground assault. "Whatever step needs to be taken will be taken," the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said.

Fifteen Turkish soldiers, police, and security guards have been killed in the southeast of the country in the last week in clashes with fighters from the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

It has long been a concern in Turkey that the growth of Kurdish nationalism in northern Iraq, where the country's instability has permitted a Kurdish semiautonomous state to assume near independence, would inflame Kurdish radicals inside Turkey's borders.

Already this year has seen at least 87 PKK rebels and 51 members of the Turkish security forces killed. A similar rise in attacks by Kurdish armed groups targeting Iran's Kurdish regions resulted in Iranian troops crossing the border earlier this year to wipe out guerrilla bases in northern Iraq.
Bush admits Iraq, Afghan doubts

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19871925-23109,00.html

US President George W. Bush acknowledged Friday that some Iraqis and Afghans are "wondering whether the future is bright for them" but vowed victory in both war-torn countries.

Bush's remarks came as he met with US military personnel newly returned from Iraq and Afghanistan and assured them: "I want our troops to understand that not only does the country support them, but we'll win."


Reuters: Developments in Iraq on July 21

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MOU127418.htm

July 21 (Reuters) - The following are security and other developments in Iraq on Friday as of 2030 GMT.

Asterisk denotes a new or updated item.

MAHMUDIYA - Three policemen and three Iraqi soldiers were killed when clashes with gunmen erupted in the town of Mahmudiya, about 30 km (20 miles) south of Baghdad, an Interior Ministry source and the U.S. military said. Five "terrorists" were killed, 13 wounded and 47 detained, the U.S. military said. U.S. helicopters fired rockets and 21 weapons were seized.

*NEAR FALLUJA - A suicide bomber in a car killed six policemen and wounded 13 others near the former rebel stronghold of Falluja 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad, said police official Saad Farhan.

MUQDADIYA - The bodies of five people who were kidnapped were found in Muqdadiya, 90 km (50 miles) northeast of Baghdad police said.

MUQDADIYA - A police officer and a civilian were shot dead in separate attacks in Muqdadiya, police said.

ANBAR PROVINCE - A U.S. Marine was killed due to enemy action in Iraq's Al Anbar Province today.

BAQUBA - U.S. troops killed two suspected insurgents as well as two women and a child and wounded 23 people, including women and children, and detained four suspects in a raid to hunt members of al Qaeda northwest of Baquba, 65 km (40 miles) north of Baghdad, the U.S. military said. Police and medical sources said that six civilians were killed, including two women and a child, when the U.S. forces bombed three houses in the area.

NEAR NUMANIYA - Two Salvadoran and four Polish soldiers and an Iraqi translator were wounded when their convoy was attacked near Numaniya, 120 km (70 miles) south of Baghdad, the Polish defence ministry said. It was not clear how the convoy was attacked.

BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb targeting a Sunni mosque in the eastern New Baghdad district of the capital exploded, killing one civilian and wounding two others, police said.

MOSUL - A policeman was gunned down in the centre of Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, a hospital source said.

NEAR FALLUJA - The bodies of three Iraqi soldiers in uniform with gunshot wounds, bearing signs of torture, were found in a deserted area about 20 km north of Falluja, which is 50 km (32 miles) west of Baghdad, police said.

KIRKUK - The body of an unidentified headless man was found in the southern part of Kirkuk, 250 km (150 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

KHALIS - A roadside bomb targeting a Sunni mosque exploded in the town of Khalis, 80 km (60 miles) northeast of Baghdad, killing one worshiper and wounding two, police said.

BASRA - Two "significant" suspects wanted for killings, kidnappings and guerrilla attacks were seized by British forces in separate overnight raids in Basra, 550 km (340 miles) southeast of Baghdad, a military spokesman said.
Repeat after me: Freedom is on the mach.

[waste gate]

P_Funk,
Again you have attacked me personally. Eveyone knows calling someone facist is derogatory.
Now you are instead of arguing a succinct point trying to make my beliefs again look stupid by marginalizing their scope. The fact is you sound like a fascist.

I am not trying to make you look stupid or marginalize your beliefs. I think my question was a very simple one; . Eventually you will run out of rich folk and corporations to fund the socialist ideals. What then? Darwinism rises, survival of the fitest? The bomb is not going away, neither are swords, nor firearms, nor human nature.

Certainly you have an idea as to how to cope with the end result.

[P_Funk]

Again you have dodged my response and asked a question that I've already answered. You're asking me to give you the answer to human suffering! I thought I just explained what to do with "the bomb". And what do you mean when you say that corporations and rich fund socialism? Ithoughti just explained what we should do. No absolutes and no utopian declarations. Baby steps.

And I didn't call you a fascist. I said you "sound" like a fascist. There is a difference there. I was making the point that you say that apparently war is never going to go away, you say it's "human nature". Well Hitler and Moussolini said that life is war and that war is human nature and that it is inextricable from human existance. Well as I recall the Americans along with the rest of the world fought against that belief. So if we fought against just that idea and now you are touting it as a reason that I'm just some naiive pinko then I have every right to point that out. Don;t sonfuse me,I;m not calling you a fascist. That is a slur. I am saying that your rhetoric is reminiscant of the Fascisti of Italy and Germany so many years ago.

You have deflected my argument again. I told you what my beliefs tell me to do. I can't map out the development of my ideological views as they practically apply. As with anything human it will change based on the time and the circumstances. Toplan for a future I'll never see is naiive. All I can do is open the door to it.

[Onkel Neal]

I'm not about to flame you but I will say... you sound really angry about something. Did someone here say something to trigger this?


No, No, No, Neal. I've just recently started checking the general discussion board and noticed a one sided, anti- U.S./Isreal, lean. I have an opinion about the current U.S. administration which I thought I'd share. Nothing more than that. BTW another U.S. gift to the 'free world'.

I was born in 1960, so I remember the cold war and how vulnerable Europe has been in the past. They are no less vulnerable now. Yet, the EU folks often try to degrade the only power on the face of this earth that can help them when the s**t hits the fan. Seems only Britain remembers. Thank you Tony Blair.

Anywho, thanks for asking and sorry about the screed.

waste gate

Ok, thanks, I figured there was a reason for the post. If it means anything to ya, I'm a solid Red-Stater, voted for Bush both times. But this is an international forum, America, Britain, and parts of Canada are democracies so there will be a lot of different viewpoints. I speak my piece but I really am not trying to convert :) (unless the subject is software piracy or free market econonics vs socialism, then I tend to lose my head :88) ).

cheers
Neal

[Iceman]

Yep voted for Bush both times but Clinton both times too...back when I did inhale :)...I hear ya Waste Gate there is no shame in taking a stand right or wrong you have to take a stand and Bush did that...Right or wrong and, I think right going over to where the enemy lay and kicking his butt into the caves.

Better him in the caves then me having to live there because he is trying to kill my infidel family with bombs, or poison or sticks or stones....I personally don't mind paying higher taxes or higher gas prices if Osama and the likes of people like him feel the "Heat" from those who Stand and make him live like a worm.

...Go Israel !

Kick some terrorist butts!

Waves the flag!

[P_Funk]

Yep voted for Bush both times but Clinton both times too...back when I did inhale :)...I hear ya Waste Gate there is no shame in taking a stand right or wrong you have to take a stand and Bush did that...Right or wrong and, I think right going over to where the enemy lay and kicking his butt into the caves.

Better him in the caves then me having to live there because he is trying to kill my infidel family with bombs, or poison or sticks or stones....I personally don't mind paying higher taxes or higher gas prices if Osama and the likes of people like him feel the "Heat" from those who Stand and make him live like a worm.

...Go Israel !

Kick some terrorist butts!

Waves the flag!
Wow. I don't know what to say. You'llpay high taxes so that Bush can monopolize all the oil in Iraq? If you had any understanding of history you'd know the only reason Osama wants to kill Americans is because the West spent the last 100 sum years killing people all across the middle east. Iraq isn't gonna end terrorism because terrorism is just a means to an end. Terrorism is just like guerilla warfare. So long as you invade and bomb other countries you convert more young people to radical causes because they feel powerless and want a way to seek revenge. And why not instead of waste american wealth on a bomb invest it in actually helping people inside your country live better? Because when a bomb explodes the wealth put into that bomb is lost forever. Spend it on, oh I dunno, universal health care and you save people's lives and make it easier to live. But no, killing is better. Today we're breeding the next generation of terrorists. That will justify an ever larger military budget forcing taxes higher or the deficit higher, whichever, and eventually lead to the collapse of the American economic empire.

And whats with this "take a stand right or wrong" crap? Is it better to be consistently wrong than humble and open minded? for a guy who keeps talking about god and christian morality he sure doesn't seem to embody some of the more basic principles like charity, tolerance, humility.

[Iceman]

Don't confuse my clairity of thought with your own perceptions...I call it like I see it. I don't stay up at night worrying about things I have no control over but I understand the way the Muslim the Jew the Christian and the Heathen thinks.

Christ came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance...I'm a sinner.Cast all the stones you want I consider it an honor.

19 yrs old Eh?... P Funk? Well you don't have to be old to be wise.

[Yahoshua]

(goes to get more pocorn and soda)

[P_Funk]

Don't confuse my clairity of thought with your own perceptions...I call it like I see it. I don't stay up at night worrying about things I have no control over but I understand the way the Muslim the Jew the Christian and the Heathen thinks.

Christ came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance...I'm a sinner.Cast all the stones you want I consider it an honor.

19 yrs old Eh?... P Funk? Well you don't have to be old to be wise.
So there is no argument here. All I have is your blind faith in whatever you believe in to confront. I know I can't defeat it. But I have typed my fingers numb and all I've been getting is more demands that I justify my ideas. So far I haven't gotten anyone's argument for their conflicting ideas. I attempt to justify my argument and I'm getting is some devout flag waving.

And it's interetsing that you looked at my profile. 19 eh? Is that your way of writing off my point?

Just talk to me like a rational person. Don't bother to contradict me if you;re not going to actually justify it.

[scandium]

Uhm Neal...

But this is an international forum, America, Britain, and parts of Canada are democracies

Did I fall asleep and miss out on a revolution here somewhere? :D

[P_Funk]

Uhm Neal...

But this is an international forum, America, Britain, and parts of Canada are democracies

Did I fall asleep and miss out on a revolution here somewhere? :D
I just saw that. Wow. Well some parts of my country and dysfunctionally democratic but still democratic.

[scandium]

Uhm Neal...

But this is an international forum, America, Britain, and parts of Canada are democracies

Did I fall asleep and miss out on a revolution here somewhere? :D I just saw that. Wow. Well some parts of my country and dysfunctionally democratic but still democratic.

I think he meant to type "parts of Europe" but my jaw dropped when I read it all the same, so I couldn't resist posting it. :lol:

[Onkel Neal]

:) Little friendly joke, like when Bush said Canada was our favorite neighbor to the North :88) Canada is every bit as democratic as, say,.. California ;)

[Yahoshua]

It's pronounced "Kommiefornia." (Kah-me-forn-ya).