F-111

[SUBMAN1]

Can someone tell me why the US retired the F-111? Especially the E/F-111?

I still think that was a little premature.

-S

[snowsub]

They haven't, when they require one they call up their Australian allies :up: .

Speaking of which, one had a wheel malfunction this morning and was circling it's airfield burning fuel before having to emergency land, haven't heard the outcome yep, probably tonight
http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/story/0,20797,19828817-952,00.html (http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/story/0,20797,19828817-952,00.html)

[SUBMAN1]

They haven't, when they require one they call up their Australian allies :up: .

Speaking of which, one had a wheel malfunction this morning and was circling it's airfield burning fuel before having to emergency land, haven't heard the outcome yep, probably tonight
http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/story/0,20797,19828817-952,00.html (http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/story/0,20797,19828817-952,00.html)

That was exactly what I was watching - an Australian video which has F-111's in it that made me think why??? The E/F-111 especially since its jamming power is way beyond what can be called up by the Navy.

http://www.grouchymedia.com/streaming_video/check_this_out.cfm (aussie defense force)

[Ducimus]

I have a guess which comprises of two words:

Fighter Mafia

[SUBMAN1]

I have a guess which comprises of two words:

Fighter Mafia

:rotfl: :rotfl: Must be!

[NEON DEON]

Can someone tell me why the US retired the F-111? Especially the E/F-111?

I still think that was a little premature.

-S

At first I was thinking they wanted to go cheap

F4G Wild Weasel. But no they retired the Phantom too.

They went even cheaper!

A6 Intruder varient

EA 6B Prowler

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/ea-6b_prowler.htm

[snowsub]

A little history on the Australian F-111
http://www.f-111.net/aussie/index.htm (http://www.f-111.net/aussie/index.htm)

and some Boeing Aust info
http://www.boeing.com/global/Australia/BAL/DIVAerospaceSupport/f111.html (http://www.boeing.com/global/Australia/BAL/DIVAerospaceSupport/f111.html)
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=959&session=dae.21872016.1153202814.RLx6fMOa9dUAADAVRi 8&modele=jdc_1 (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=959&session=dae.21872016.1153202814.RLx6fMOa9dUAADAVRi 8&modele=jdc_1)

And in 2010 it's going to be replaced by the F-35 Lightning II

[PeriscopeDepth]

The F-35 replacing the F-111 is a joke. Less than half the range, almost certainly slower, and less bombs per trip. And in service 2012 and at $40 million a unit is optimistic IMO.

PD

[snowsub]

The emergency landing was a success
http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?g=BBD474D0-F64B-4536-9309-69285D78C9E2&f=&fg=copy
appologise about the ad before the vid

But with regards to the F-35 replacing the F-111, yes it's controversial over here, there was rumors that the ADF is lloking at getting a CV and that plane (F-35) was taken into consideration.
Most concern is the lack of a strike aircraft in the intervening years from decom of the F-111 to successful introduction of the F-35 (much like the concern in the UK)

[Skybird]

Maintenance costs was a guess thrown into discussions time and again. Same is said about German (and I assume British and Italian) Tornados. Also, maintenance times have increased by several times (Tornados). No aircraft forever flies for the same investements per flying hour - they increase drastcially the older the aircraft gets. If force sizes and personel levels decrease, maintenance efficiency becomes a serious consideration.

[tycho102]

In regards to ECM, the Navy, and the Prowler. Thank god they retired the Prowler.

The "Super Hornet" is capable of carrying several kinds of ECM pods, as well as the full compliment of associated weaponry. I don't know anything about capabilities or power output, but it was supposed to take on some this role just as it's supposed to take on some of the role of a KA-6. Having a back-seater, whose sole purpose is SIGINT functions, wastes a significant amount of combat weight. Same thing with a rear seat missile jockey ("night attack" versions of the F-18, mostly employed by Marines).

It would be better to hook SIGINT capabilites up to a satellite connection and have some joker back in Colorado doing all the work while sitting at a desk with a mug of coffee, but that does completely exclude any passive on-site countermeasures. So, I imagine those pods has *lots* of bubble memory -- probably on the order of 3-4 terabytes -- that can be examined after collection. Not quite as fast as real-time, but like I was saying, I don't know the avionics on the E's and F's.

[SUBMAN1]

THey need to continue work on ECM systems. The US has dropped ECM research and I think the reason is the over reliance on stealth. Some day, that could be a bad thing that could be avoided with more ECM research!

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

The Prowler is not retired, it will be in service beyond 2010. As to your comments on WSOs, I have NEVER heard a WSO called a waste. Two seat jets have always been considered a valuable asset. Still are today. The Navy is very forward thinking in continuing to build two seat fighters.

What makes you think the US has just dropped ECM research Subman? I haven't heard this. Do you have a source?

PD

[SUBMAN1]

The Prowler is not retired, it will be in service beyond 2010. As to your comments on WSOs, I have NEVER heard a WSO called a waste. Two seat jets have always been considered a valuable asset. Still are today. The Navy is very forward thinking in continuing to build two seat fighters.

What makes you think the US has just dropped ECM research Subman? I haven't heard this. Do you have a source?

PD
They haven't dropped it persay, but some airforce generals are raising a big stink about it because so little $$$ is going into research. The amount of money spent was pathetic.

-S

[Oberon]

:o All this is news to me, I had no idea the US had retired the Electric Fox...thank goodness the Aussies have some they can borrow when needed. :know:

[SUBMAN1]

:o All this is news to me, I had no idea the US had retired the Electric Fox...thank goodness the Aussies have some they can borrow when needed. :know:

I do have some doubts though. Maybe the reason is because the US realizes that SAM's will easily be able to burn through ECM in the future? Usually the US doesn't make a move without a damn good reason, so that is where my doubt comes from. The latest gen of Russian Sam's is excellent, and only going to get better.

-S

[Oberon]

True...you can stay one step ahead of the game only for so long, but I would have thought they'd have at least kept the fuselage to refit with new ECM equipment...unless it'd work out cheaper to retire the F-111 and intergrate new technology into upcoming aircraft or small aircraft upgrades as opposed to totally revamping the original.

[NEON DEON]

Can someone tell me why the US retired the F-111? Especially the E/F-111?

I still think that was a little premature.

-S

At first I was thinking they wanted to go cheap

F4G Wild Weasel. But no they retired the Phantom too.

They went even cheaper!

A6 Intruder varient

EA 6B Prowler

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/ea-6b_prowler.htm


You might want to look at the above link.

[Oberon]

In the coming years, the Prowler fleet will be modernized and upgraded to keep the aircraft and its systems abreast of evolving threats and to maintain aircraft safety. The Block 89A upgrade program will address structural and supportability problems associated with aging aircraft and includes numerous avionics improvements for safety of flight and joint interoperability. Later improvements to the Prowler's AN/ALQ-99 tactical jamming system, including the Improved Capabilities (ICAP) III upgrade, new high and low frequency transmitters, and continuing structural enhancements, will ensure that the EA-6B remains the world's premier tactical electronic warfare platform and a force multiplier for years to come.


Aaaah, that explains it, it's a cheaper aircraft to keep and probably easier to upgrade too.

Also:


As of early 2000, Defense Department planning for replacing the EA-6B Prowler include a scheme under which the Navy would buy an F/A-18G "Growler" -- an F/A-18E/F modified for escort and close-in jamming. The Air Force would provide standoff jamming with modified EB-52s or EB-1s, and close-in jamming with unmanned air vehicles such as the Northrop Grumman Global Hawk or General Atomics Predator.


They're modding the ever resourceful F-18 for the Navy.

Makes more sense now :yep:

[diver]

The F-35 replacing the F-111 is a joke. Less than half the range, almost certainly slower, and less bombs per trip.

PD


Yes but seeing as how the F-111's NEVER operate without F/A-18 escorts, and how the RAAF is buying long range cruise missiles it really nulifies those issues.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Yes but seeing as how the F-111's NEVER operate without F/A-18 escorts, and how the RAAF is buying long range cruise missiles it really nulifies those issues.

You still lose a lot of range on the strike because the F/A-18s (not long legged to begin with) now have to carry heavy bombs instead of AAMs and maybe a HARM or two.

As for cruise missiles, you are now spending a lot more to deliver the same ordnance. You also lose firepower per strike because the planes have to lug the fuel in the missile as well as the warhead.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I find Australian Defence policy very interesting. They have a huge area to cover with relatively little resources. I also hate the F-35 with a passion. It has a limited place in AF's at best.

Now, what is the ADF's job? Honestly, it's not defending the mainland from China. Never can the ADF be expected to do that on their budget. It's slapping Indonesia around by yourself, worst case. Which means a long range, quick turnaround, BOMBER SPEC'd aircraft to sustain sortie rate. IMO, the ADF would be better off with a handful of F-22s (or F-15s) to smack the fighters and AD; the rest of the ADF combat AF consisting of X-45C spec'd drones.

PD

[snowsub]

The F-35 replacing the F-111 is a joke. Less than half the range, almost certainly slower, and less bombs per trip.

PD


Yes but seeing as how the F-111's NEVER operate without F/A-18 escorts, and how the RAAF is buying long range cruise missiles it really nulifies those issues.

now that's something I haven't heard of :hmm: :hmm:

[snowsub]

I find Australian Defence policy very interesting. They have a huge area to cover with relatively little resources. I also hate the F-35 with a passion. It has a limited place in AF's at best.

Now, what is the ADF's job? Honestly, it's not defending the mainland from China. Never can the ADF be expected to do that on their budget. It's slapping Indonesia around by yourself, worst case. Which means a long range, quick turnaround, BOMBER SPEC'd aircraft to sustain sortie rate. IMO, the ADF would be better off with a handful of F-22s (or F-15s) to smack the fighters and AD; the rest of the ADF combat AF consisting of X-45C spec'd drones.

PD

the bombing of Jakata and turn around was the reason for the F-111.

But we are buying both the F-22 & F-35, plus the global hawk, Wedgetail (cheap AWACS), and I've heard rumors of a CV like the brittish version (STOL req'd types).

a little info on the ADF White Paper:
http://www.defence.gov.au/minister/Mooretpl.cfm?CurrentId=474

some more info:
http://www.australianreview.net/journal/v2/n1/cheeseman.pdf

MOD's site:
http://www.defence.gov.au/whitepaper/

[diver]

I find Australian Defence policy very interesting. They have a huge area to cover with relatively little resources. I also hate the F-35 with a passion. It has a limited place in AF's at best.

Now, what is the ADF's job? Honestly, it's not defending the mainland from China. Never can the ADF be expected to do that on their budget. It's slapping Indonesia around by yourself, worst case. Which means a long range, quick turnaround, BOMBER SPEC'd aircraft to sustain sortie rate. IMO, the ADF would be better off with a handful of F-22s (or F-15s) to smack the fighters and AD; the rest of the ADF combat AF consisting of X-45C spec'd drones.

PD

The Australian Defence Force now spends alot of time peacekeeping in the Asia/Pacific region. From lessons learnt, particuarly in Timor 99, but also the Solomons, Timor 06 and to a lesser extent Bouganville, we are now gearing up the forces for their future role (not the stupidity of "fortress australia" as devised by Labor in the 80's/90's).

That's why we are buying LHD's, C-17's, MRH-90's, among other things

With the purchase of Abrams MBT's, AWACs, Aegis destroyers, cruise missiles, F-35's, and the upgradeing of our FFG and Anzac frigates the ADF is also getting ready to continue operating where it is needed around the world.

the future is looking very good, now if only we could solve that recruitment problem:hmm:

[PeriscopeDepth]

Where did you find that Australia is buying the F-22? Don't believe they are...yet.

PD

[snowsub]

Appologize, the Labor Party (opposition) here was calling for it, but on further investigation I found atm there is no plans for the ADF to have it.

Which makes me wonder, cause the F-22 was part of a list of planes the RAAF was looking for the replace the FA-18's (proposed were the Eurofighter, F22, Superhornet & i think the Raphael (sp?))
again further looking suggests they are using the JSF to do both the F-111 & FA-18 role :o
:nope: :nope: :nope:

Edit: Yep, the Aust Government was looking at various aircraft for Air 6000 project but descided to dump it and buy the F-35
again :nope: :nope: :nope:

[snowsub]

Some official documentation of the future plans of the ADF:


Force 2020 (http://www.defence.gov.au/publications/f2020.pdf)


Next 10 Yrs (http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/id/dcp/DCP_2006_16.pdf)