Hunting Lions can be hazardous to your Health!

[SUBMAN1]

Uhh (thats all i have to say!)

-S

http://www.chrisgrier.com/movies/lion.wmv

[SUBMAN1]

And wild boars are probably a major danger too!

http://www.chrisgrier.com/movies/Charging_Boar.wmv

[bradclark1]

Uhh (thats all i have to say!)

-S

http://www.chrisgrier.com/movies/lion.wmv

Now we know where the term Lion Hearted comes from.

[SUBMAN1]

Uhh (thats all i have to say!)

-S

http://www.chrisgrier.com/movies/lion.wmv

Now we know where the term Lion Hearted comes from.

I guess that would be correct. If that one guy didn't get a shot through him at that one moment, it was over for the guy the Lion was going after! Notice, the lion is aiming for his neck!

-S

[The Avon Lady]

Uhh (thats all i have to say!)

-S

http://www.chrisgrier.com/movies/lion.wmv
Now we know where the term Lion Hearted comes from.
Or perhaps where the term pigheaded came from. :shifty:

[TteFAboB]

Dick Cheney would've taken all of them out, lion, pig, pigheaded, cameraman.

Chuck Norris would've done it with his bare hands...tied to his back!

[SUBMAN1]

Dick Cheney would've taken all of them out, lion, pig, pigheaded, cameraman.

Chuck Norris would've done it with his bare hands...tied to his back!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[STEED]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:

Its the old story of the hunter becoming the hunted, or as in the case of this video maybe vice versa? I am not sure who is being hunted here.

-S

[Kurushio]

I think hunting endangered species is pretty much illegal everywhere...I think these were game wardens trying to eliminate a man-eater. Though still...killing such a beautiful creature is mindless....:nope:

[Skybird]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.

[bradclark1]

Or perhaps where the term pigheaded came from. :shifty:

:D Yep, there's always that.

[August]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.

I'm sure they'd love to hunt you too Skybird...

[The Avon Lady]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.
:shifty: Psssst! I can get you a scalped ticket for next year's Oscars. :shifty:

[snowsub]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.
:shifty: Psssst! I can get you a scalped ticket for next year's Oscars. :shifty:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Must admit though I was rooting for the Lion in that vid, like during the bullfighting recently and the bull jumped up into the crowd :up:

[Skybird]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.

I'm sure they'd love to hunt you too Skybird...
Might be difficult. I use a bow. When I strike them, they even will not know I am near :cool:

[Marcantilan]

Yep, I was with the lion too...

IMPORTANT ADVICE FOR KITTY (OR SIMBA OR WHATEVER YOU ARE CALLED): Next time, aim lower...

[August]

hunting for eating is one thing. But I would love to hunt trophy hunters.
I'm sure they'd love to hunt you too Skybird... Might be difficult. I use a bow. When I strike them, they even will not know I am near :cool:

Maybe, but if you use a bow you've been within rifle range for a mile or so already. Also unless you're a middle earth elf a bow is pretty much a single shot weapon. Like the lion in that video you may have gotten one of them but the others would have blasted you.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

they weren't game wardens... at least it doesn't look like they were...

they looked like pure idiots to me...

i'm surprised they didn't wind up shooting holes in each other...

following a wounded animal like that, especially a species that hunts
in packs... they couldn't see that they were walking into a trap... lucky
they weren't tracking female lions, or they would've definitely been
attacked from either or both of their flanks... and we'd have really seen
a gory movie...

what's next on these guys' schedule... hunting great whites off the reef...
i'd like to see that video when the sharks are done with em...


hey, anyone know what caliber weapons they were using... doesn't look like
what they had would've been my first choice for putting down an addrenaline
soaked, charging big cat...


--Mike

[Skybird]

Maybe, but if you use a bow you've been within rifle range for a mile or so already. Also unless you're a middle earth elf a bow is pretty much a single shot weapon. Like the lion in that video you may have gotten one of them but the others would have blasted you.

That's when the Ninja-parts comes into play. :cool: :lol: And at close range, skilled usage of a sword beats a hunting rifle hands down - it simply is much faster to handle (not talking of claymores or something like that).

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

have you ever looked into the eyes of the big cat as it bore down on you...

swords, guns, or atomic bombs would'nt help some people...

and ninjas scream as loud as the next guy when the jaws of death clamp down around
their behinds...

--Mike

[August]

Maybe, but if you use a bow you've been within rifle range for a mile or so already. Also unless you're a middle earth elf a bow is pretty much a single shot weapon. Like the lion in that video you may have gotten one of them but the others would have blasted you.
That's when the Ninja-parts comes into play. :cool: :lol: And at close range, skilled usage of a sword beats a hunting rifle hands down - it simply is much faster to handle (not talking of claymores or something like that).

Yeah that's why swords are the popular weapon of choice ever since the invention of firearms. ;)

But i thought we were talking about Bow and arrows?

[aaken]

have you ever looked into the eyes of the big cat as it bore down on you...

swords, guns, or atomic bombs would'nt help some people...

Never had the chance (or the guts) to hunt lions but once, on a hunting trip in central-north Nigeria, we got charged by an elephant. One experience I'll never forget.

[SUBMAN1]

Maybe, but if you use a bow you've been within rifle range for a mile or so already. Also unless you're a middle earth elf a bow is pretty much a single shot weapon. Like the lion in that video you may have gotten one of them but the others would have blasted you.

That's when the Ninja-parts comes into play. :cool: :lol: And at close range, skilled usage of a sword beats a hunting rifle hands down - it simply is much faster to handle (not talking of claymores or something like that).

Skybirds fantasy land. Lets see if you can get me or someone with that bow! You'll never hear the first round hit you from any rifle since if you hear it - it already missed!

-S

[Skybird]

Yeah that's why swords are the popular weapon of choice ever since the invention of firearms. ;)

But i thought we were talking about Bow and arrows?
An arrow is a sword with wings! The airforce of what usually hacks and stabs.

Skybirds fantasy land. Lets see if you can get me or someone with that bow!

If you come closer than let's say 100-120m, than in earlier years, when I practiced regularly, you would have been mine with most shots, promised. I haven't done that for years now. I used a special Korean compound bow, a handmade special work of which only some 40 had been built by the master who created it. Buying it made me a poor man back then. It did acchieve a somewhat very good compromise between the small size of a mongolian bow with the enormous compression-power (don't know if that is the ro crrect english word) of British Longbows and Japanese warbows (does not mean it is as stgorng as these). Depending on the weight of the arrow and the pulling power of the shooter, that beast has a precision-shot-range of around 250m. For comparison, sporting events are done at varying distances of 40-90m, and mediaval English Longbows were built with more than 100lb pulling strength and a range of 350m, roughly. An non-shooter could not pull the string of such a monster. Archers were trained in ancient times sicne their childhood to build the needed muscles for that. I couldn't shoot precisely that far, but was able to pull it to acchieve a 200m-range. Precision shooting for me ended somewhere around the 100-120m mark. That means I am not strong enough to use this bow to it's full potential. I can use around 60-70% of it. the strongest bows that are built in the present have a pulling strength of around 200lb maximum. Shooters able to use them are very rare.

If you think a good bow is inferior to a hunting gun, then you are totally wrong, believe me

Consider a shooter using such a weapon against you, and he is trying to hide and give you no target and uses sniper tactics of moving and approaching - then you have an extremely serious problem with that guy, no matter if you have long range hunting rifles or automatic weapons for yourself or not. If that guy also has a sword and is skilled in using it, then you are almost dead if you ever manage to approach his hidden position to be withion sword-striking range.

I trained archery and sword fighting and Martial Arts, and seriously so, but no Ninja-stuff and camouflage games. I have that Korean special compound bow (decinstructable into three parts (without metal, airport security would hate it), another ordinary sport bow, two wooden Katanas, one industrially-manufactured Katana, and an original ancient Katana (late 16th century). If I would sell that stuff, I would be able to buy myself a luxury car, a bigger appartment, or even a small house. :rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

Yeah that's why swords are the popular weapon of choice ever since the invention of firearms. ;)

But i thought we were talking about Bow and arrows?
An arrow is a sword with wings! The airforce of what usually hacks and stabs.

Skybirds fantasy land. Lets see if you can get me or someone with that bow!

If you come closer than let's say 100-120m, than in earlier years, when I practiced regularly, you would have been mine with most shots, promised. I haven't done that for years now. I used a special Korean compound bow, a handmade special work of which only some 40 had been built by the master who created it. Buying it made me a poor man back then. It did acchieve a somewhat very good compromise between the small size of a mongolian bow with the enormous compression-power (don't know if that is the ro crrect english word) of British Longbows and Japanese warbows (does not mean it is as stgorng as these). Depending on the weight of the arrow and the pulling power of the shooter, that beast has a precision-shot-range of around 250m. For comparison, sporting events are done at varying distances of 40-90m, and mediaval English Longbows were built with more than 100lb pulling strength and a range of 350m, roughly. An non-shooter could not pull the string of such a monster. Archers were trained in ancient times sicne their childhood to build the needed muscles for that. I couldn't shoot precisely that far, but was able to pull it to acchieve a 200m-range. Precision shooting for me ended somewhere around the 100-120m mark. That means I am not strong enough to use this bow to it's full potential. I can use around 60-70% of it. the strongest bows that are built in the present have a pulling strength of around 200lb maximum. Shooters able to use them are very rare.

If you think a good bow is inferior to a hunting gun, then you are totally wrong, believe me

Consider a shooter using such a weapon against you, and he is trying to hide and give you no target and uses sniper tactics of moving and approaching - then you have an extremely serious problem with that guy, no matter if you have long range hunting rifles or automatic weapons for yourself or not. If that guy also has a sword and is skilled in using it, then you are almost dead if you ever manage to approach his hidden position to be withion sword-striking range.

I trained archery and sword fighting and Martial Arts, and seriously so, but no Ninja-stuff and camouflage games. I have that Korean special compound bow (decinstructable into three parts (without metal, airport security would hate it), another ordinary sport bow, two wooden Katanas, one industrially-manufactured Katana, and an original ancient Katana (late 16th century). If I would sell that stuff, I would be able to buy myself a luxury car, a bigger appartment, or even a small house. :rotfl:

Bow speed means I can step out of the way of your ranged shot. The way the English used to get around this and kill their enemy was to unleash a hail storm of arrows at the exact same time so that there was no way for the enemy to run.
can't hit you with at least 1 round from 500 meters or less, I deserve to be shot!
Now if I take a 30 round clip, and can't hit you from 500 meters or less, I deserve to be shot.

PS. THe time it takes you to recoil and strike with a sword, I can train on you and shoot you mutiple times practically tearing your body in half before you even have the chance to strike - the very reason swords were discarded after the ball and muskett moved technologically to automatics. The point is - your ancient sword is of no use in a modern world except on an equally armed or unarmed opponent. Everything else is dream world.

[TteFAboB]

He who spots first, and gains the advantage of possibly attacking first, wins.

All the rest is accessory.

I have a 30 round clip, I have ninja poisoned throwing stars, I have a Tazer, I have nun-chakus, I have an infra-red scope, I have booby-traps set-up, I have a flamethrower, I have Jedi Mind Trick.

Carry on to infinity.

See first, hit first, win.

[Skybird]

Subman,

You oversee that an archer would be stupid to give you a target to aim at. You also cannot evade an incoming arrow - if you do not see it, do not look out at it. Spotting a flying arrow before the background of trees is extrmeely difficult, btw. Depending on arrow and bow, these things nevertheless could travel fast, btw. An archer that anticipates your reaction if you see the arrow, eventually gets you running into it right on.

You are right about the rain of arrows from Longbows (which are even not the record holders concerning range, the widest shots possible is with a certain type of Turkish bow, the range is around 900m, believe it or not, it's true). However, precision shooting is possible at ranges up to 200m, if the archers is capable to handle his bow, and the bow is an accordingly good one. there are bows for sports, range-records, precision shooting, warbows. they all are differently balanced concerning the different qualities that decide how a shot comes off. the mongoles were trained in shooting precisely through the viewing slots of helmets while sitting on a moving horse themselves. Japanese used to use rain of arrows before attacking villages, to make the residents flee, and precision fire at ranges of around 30-35m - but Samurai archers were capable to deliver precision fire at ranges in excess of 250m - I think that is the record for precision fire (if they did that during the hectic of a battle is something different). Zen-archery, on the other hand, has different aims and goals, and is done at 25, 35 and sometimes 60m (but Kyudu is not the same as Kyuyutsu, so do not judge Samuraio war-archery on the ground of Zen-archery...)

In close quarter combat with a rifle, let's say in a very small room, or a house, you would have no real chance against a skilled sword fighter. I know that that hurts your ego, but when you enter a sword fighter's effective fighting range, and he is as strong as you, and skilled in his weapon,then he handles less weapon weight than you with your rifle, and in a more dedicated way, adding to the speed of that weapon. you know that old children play: one claps in his hand, the other has to try to bring his hand between the clapper's hands, prventing them to clap? With my hands shoulder-wide apart I was not able to clap my hands before my teacher has drawn his sword from his side and touched my forehead with it from around 1 m away. You would depend on the sword-fighter stepping into your established fire line, of taking on him in limited space and blocked viewing conditions. you need more room than he does. He is more used to move agile and quickly, than a gun-shooter is. He will move doifefrently, than you do.

It's much like tanks: donT send them into forests, keep them in the open where they can see wide and clear and a target cannot hide. It is much the same with a duel "gun versus sword". Do not expect an archer or a sword-carrier fighting in the same way as if he would have a rifle like yourself. Think of it as a military sniper, well-camouflaged. Woiuld you asusme he is easy fodder for you, becasue he is not armed with a precision rifle, but a crossbow? You would be a fool to think so.

500m with a rifle without scope I would imagine to be difficult, btw. But I never shot with a rifle, only with the H&K USP of my father, and his S&W Magnum pistol. I simply do not like firearms. Loud, dirty, and do not educate the user to the degree bows and swords do, if you want to become competent with them.

[SUBMAN1]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Oh my gosh! Don't make me laugh so hard that I start spewing tea all over the place! I can't read this thread anymore because my stomach is going to rip apart from laughing!

A 16" rifle is easier to manuaver than a 30" sword is a small enviro, and a hell of a lot more effective. I remember reading aco**** of Samurai in close quarters such as this and their difficulty in attacking in confined quarters like that.

By the way, sign up and help out the US Military since according to you, we should re-outfit all our Marines doing house to house in Iraq since they would be way more effective with a sword instead of a bullet. Maybe let them change out their rifle for a bow too, no? Crap! We can take down all those insurgents this way and they won't know what hit em! And that is considering you are not using a handgun!!!

Anyway, want to know the outcome of rifles in the woods vs bow and arrows? Go ask your local Native American. I'm sure he can set your record straight, regardless how he outnumbered the white man when the battles were waged! I think Custard is the only idiot to lose to them, and that was purely by his stupid arrogance.

Lets put it this way, one rifles bullet = way more damage than an arrow that peirces straight, especially the way a 5.56 explodes when hitting flesh from a 14.5" barrel (min length for the phenominon to occur) or longer (Why do they even bother making 12" M4's? Might as well have a .22). It is easier to train and fire a rifle. Firing more than one shot is near instant. Someone with a rifle can hide as easily as someone with a bow. Need I go on? Quit watching too many Rambo movies.

-S

[August]

Loud, dirty, and do not educate the user to the degree bows and swords do, if you want to become competent with them.

Define competent. To me it's dropping you long before you figure you even have to camoflage yourself and a scope is just an accessory to a firearm just the same as string silencers, sights and counterweights are accessories to the bow.

As for close quarters combat, well the situation is everything. If the gunman has the weapon already aimed in your direction, his finger on the trigger and a round in the chamber, the sword will not likely win. The sword, regardless of how fast it is swung is not faster than a bullet or load of buckshot. On the other hand if the gunman has his weapon slung and unloaded (your hand clapping scenario) then yes the swordsman has the advantage.

Even then however this scenario assumes a few things. First, the swordsman has above average abilities, second the gunman doesn't have the modern version of the sword, a bayonet mounted and finally and most importantly, the gunman is a clueless idiot who would put himself in a stituation where he is unprepared to fight.

Regarding bows versus firearms, again relative competancy is key. While an archer with a lifetime of training might be able to stretch his effective range out to 250m against single targets it takes comparatively little training for a person to be just as effective with a suitable firearm at that range. A gunman with the same amount of competancy with firearms as your Samurai archer has with his bow will have the advantage.

Bottom line here is that the use of stealth and suprise can overcome the inherent limitations of ancient weapons like the bow and sword but without them, well, there's a reason why firearms are supreme on the modern battlefield and swords and bows have become museum pieces.

[Skybird]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Oh my gosh! Don't make me laugh so hard that I start spewing tea all over the place! I can't read this thread anymore because my stomach is going to rip apart from laughing!

A 16" rifle is easier to manuaver than a 30" sword is a small enviro, and a hell of a lot more effective. I remember reading aco**** of Samurai in close quarters such as this and their difficulty in attacking in confined quarters like that.

By the way, sign up and help out the US Military since according to you, we should re-outfit all our Marines doing house to house in Iraq since they would be way more effective with a sword instead of a bullet. Maybe let them change out their rifle for a bow too, no? Crap! We can take down all those insurgents this way and they won't know what hit em! And that is considering you are not using a handgun!!!

Anyway, want to know the outcome of rifles in the woods vs bow and arrows? Go ask your local Native American. I'm sure he can set your record straight, regardless how he outnumbered the white man when the battles were waged! I think Custard is the only idiot to lose to them, and that was purely by his stupid arrogance.

Lets put it this way, one rifles bullet = way more damage than an arrow that peirces straight, especially the way a 5.56 explodes when hitting flesh from a 14.5" barrel (min length for the phenominon to occur) or longer (Why do they even bother making 12" M4's? Might as well have a .22). It is easier to train and fire a rifle. Firing more than one shot is near instant. Someone with a rifle can hide as easily as someone with a bow. Need I go on? Quit watching too many Rambo movies.

-S
Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten! ;) Träum du nur.

the original starting point for this discussion was a setting of hunters with hunting rifles, and that very much is what I refer to. You may assume that a hunting rifle in a house is superior a weapon, but I know it better. Have you ever handled a sword yourself? I have, a Katana. It is not as light as Samurai-movies gives the impression, it requrires quite some strength to move it fast and precise. That'S why I said "gunner and sword fighter of equal strength". A hunting rifles weights how much? I don't know, but I am sure it is more than just one kilogram, that is a mass that needs to be swung. If you hold it ready at your shoulder, you need to move your whole body to aim and to swing it - a sword is faster, believe me, a short sword even more so. And that you assume that narrow space is necessarily an obstacle for a sword only shows that you do not know much about technical sword fighting technique. a Katana primarily is used to hack - not to slice and not to stab. But using it to stab and to slice (not preferred, it wears the sharp side of the blade) is possible, and training should and could focus on that. It is not the preferred scenario, but it is possible to use a Katana in narrow space (although a shorter Wakizashi would be the better choice - but that sword was not meant as a fighting weapon). The blade is led closer to your body then, almost in full body contact, and with focussing on the tip as the lethal part of it, not so much the broad blade. Well, I can't explain that in a few words, i would need to demonstrate it. however, believe me, that such an opponent would be more faster and agile in movement and body control than you with your hunting gun.

The US military is not interested in adopting swords, believe me. Because learnign to use it should be measured in decades. I started with that when I was 12, and that already is considered to be very late. Do you have special units of any kind willing to spend 15 or 20 years in training before they reach combat-ready-status? and why should they, when they have no need for that? House-to-house in Iraq is not done versus Iraqis with swords. You also don't hunt lions in Iraq. Or hunters.

That is what I meant with "educating", August. Going into a store, buying a pistol or rifle, and spend two hours in the woods with somebody explaining to you where the trigger is and where the bullet is coming from is easy. It mujst not affect your character. It does not tech you discipline, self-regulation, control. It may need some practice to hit anything at useful ranges, but you must not spend a liftime with that. That'S why firarms became popular in acnient times, as you poijnt out. It does not need so much training. It is the easier, the cheaper, the less worthful way. Do you think I learned all this stuff to become a fighter? It was a tool for my teacher, to change me. and it has. Going for airpistols are rifle shooting never would have acchieved that - for it wouldn't have demanded so much. For hunting purposes, and even military purposes, you must not change your life, your attitude, your will, your mind. But if you want to make use of bows or swords in a serious meaning, you need to do invest a whole lot of yourself, of your time, of your life. It chnages you, and it will become part of your life. It requires disicipline of an degree that rifle-shooting does not (as long as you do not go to the Olympics, or spoecialised military: snipers or whatever, and here the intention is a fully destructive one). You need to train more, and harder, and more diverse, than you need to lean how to operate a pistol for self-defense. the first year of my sword training was - muscle traning exclusively, five days a week, additonally to meditation and the beginning of Wing Tsun. The first two years of my training with the bow was mental training exclusively - my muscles alone were not and still are not strong enough to use that bow to any useful effect beyond 30m. In short words: pistol shooting and rifle shooting, and sword fighting and archery of the kind I mean simply do not compare. It is art versus industrial mass output (of killing effect, in this case). for the first you need to adopt all your life. For the latter you need to push a button. It's like smoking a cigarette while rushing down the stairs to get the bus, compared to having a "gemütliche" session with your tobacco pipe where you spend ten minutes alone or more just to get the pipe ready - a ritual that you even enjoy. :)

I already have admitted that the gunner is depending on having the weapon already at ready and fixed on the target. In that scenario, as August describes, the sword cannot win by it's own effort, only when the gun makes a mistake. but when the gun has no target in sight, needs to search in high grass, or a narrow house, the story is a complete different one. And as August says, the individual competence of the fighter with his choosen wepaon is a factor, but I exclusively talked about a competent one.

what it comes down to is this: in open savannah and high gras, with a bunch of sunday hunters having stupid heads under their caps, a competent archer using silence and camouflage very probably will outclass them and kill them from ranges of up to 100m. and if they manage to approach his location where he lies in ambush and the archer also being competent in sword fighting, they again have very bad chances. Tactics and camouflage and stealth are very powerful weapons. Individual competence with a weapon is a key variable, of course.

An Subman, if you ever come with an M16 (do you hunt lions with an M16...?) to me and I have a sword and you step through the door at armslength - I for example could easily doom your weapon to inefficiency by stepping towards you so that you have no more room left to manouveur your M16 - while I can still use my sword to full effect ;) If I emrbace and kiss you, how do you point an M16 at me, then? :lol: I also don't believe you that you swing a rifle as quickly by a 90° as I hack or stab with a sword from any position and even backwards when going for you serious and in anger. You would gain in movement speed by using a small pistol, for example. But such a small and agile weapon again is something different.

If the scanrio is different, and comes to military grounds, of course I wouldn't not limit myself to bows and swords, and would use mor emodern weapons as well. Which does not mean that I would rule out my ancient relics in all imaginable situations.

[SUBMAN1]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Oh my gosh! Don't make me laugh so hard that I start spewing tea all over the place! I can't read this thread anymore because my stomach is going to rip apart from laughing!

A 16" rifle is easier to manuaver than a 30" sword is a small enviro, and a hell of a lot more effective. I remember reading aco**** of Samurai in close quarters such as this and their difficulty in attacking in confined quarters like that.

By the way, sign up and help out the US Military since according to you, we should re-outfit all our Marines doing house to house in Iraq since they would be way more effective with a sword instead of a bullet. Maybe let them change out their rifle for a bow too, no? Crap! We can take down all those insurgents this way and they won't know what hit em! And that is considering you are not using a handgun!!!

Anyway, want to know the outcome of rifles in the woods vs bow and arrows? Go ask your local Native American. I'm sure he can set your record straight, regardless how he outnumbered the white man when the battles were waged! I think Custard is the only idiot to lose to them, and that was purely by his stupid arrogance.

Lets put it this way, one rifles bullet = way more damage than an arrow that peirces straight, especially the way a 5.56 explodes when hitting flesh from a 14.5" barrel (min length for the phenominon to occur) or longer (Why do they even bother making 12" M4's? Might as well have a .22). It is easier to train and fire a rifle. Firing more than one shot is near instant. Someone with a rifle can hide as easily as someone with a bow. Need I go on? Quit watching too many Rambo movies.

-S Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten! ;) Träum du nur.

the original starting point for this discussion was a setting of hunters with hunting rifles, and that very much is what I refer to. You may assume that a hunting rifle in a house is superior a weapon, but I know it better. Have you ever handled a sword yourself? I have, a Katana. It is not as light as Samurai-movies gives the impression, it requrires quite some strength to move it fast and precise. That'S why I said "gunner and sword fighter of equal strength". A hunting rifles weights how much? I don't know, but I am sure it is more than just one kilogram, that is a mass that needs to be swung. If you hold it ready at your shoulder, you need to move your whole body to aim and to swing it - a sword is faster, believe me, a short sword even more so. And that you assume that narrow space is necessarily an obstacle for a sword only shows that you do not know much about technical sword fighting technique. a Katana primarily is used to hack - not to slice and not to stab. But using it to stab and to slice (not preferred, it wears the sharp side of the blade) is possible, and training should and could focus on that. It is not the preferred scenario, but it is possible to use a Katana in narrow space (although a shorter Wakizashi would be the better choice - but that sword was not meant as a fighting weapon). The blade is led closer to your body then, almost in full body contact, and with focussing on the tip as the lethal part of it, not so much the broad blade. Well, I can't explain that in a few words, i would need to demonstrate it. however, believe me, that such an opponent would be more faster and agile in movement and body control than you with your hunting gun.

The US military is not interested in adopting swords, believe me. Because learnign to use it should be measured in decades. I started with that when I was 12, and that already is considered to be very late. Do you have special units of any kind willing to spend 15 or 20 years in training before they reach combat-ready-status? and why should they, when they have no need for that? House-to-house in Iraq is not done versus Iraqis with swords. You also don't hunt lions in Iraq. Or hunters.

That is what I meant with "educating", August. Going into a store, buying a pistol or rifle, and spend two hours in the woods with somebody explaining to you where the trigger is and where the bullet is coming from is easy. It mujst not affect your character. It does not tech you discipline, self-regulation, control. It may need some practice to hit anything at useful ranges, but you must not spend a liftime with that. That'S why firarms became popular in acnient times, as you poijnt out. It does not need so much training. It is the easier, the cheaper, the less worthful way. Do you think I learned all this stuff to become a fighter? It was a tool for my teacher, to change me. and it has. Going for airpistols are rifle shooting never would have acchieved that - for it wouldn't have demanded so much. For hunting purposes, and even military purposes, you must not change your life, your attitude, your will, your mind. But if you want to make use of bows or swords in a serious meaning, you need to do invest a whole lot of yourself, of your time, of your life. It chnages you, and it will become part of your life. It requires disicipline of an degree that rifle-shooting does not (as long as you do not go to the Olympics, or spoecialised military: snipers or whatever, and here the intention is a fully destructive one). You need to train more, and harder, and more diverse, than you need to lean how to operate a pistol for self-defense. the first year of my sword training was - muscle traning exclusively, five days a week, additonally to meditation and the beginning of Wing Tsun. The first two years of my training with the bow was mental training exclusively - my muscles alone were not and still are not strong enough to use that bow to any useful effect beyond 30m. In short words: pistol shooting and rifle shooting, and sword fighting and archery of the kind I mean simply do not compare. It is art versus industrial mass output (of killing effect, in this case). for the first you need to adopt all your life. For the latter you need to push a button. It's like smoking a cigarette while rushing down the stairs to get the bus, to having a "gemütliche" session with your tobacco pipe where you need ten minutes or more just to get the pipe ready - a ritual that you even enjoy. :)

I already have admitted that the gunner is depending on having the weapon already at ready and fixed on the target. In that scenario, as August describes, the sword cannot win by it's own effort, only when the gun makes a mistake. but when the gun has no target in sight, needs to search in high grass, or a narrow house, the story is a complete different one. And as August says, the individual competence of the fighter with his choosen wepaon is a factor, but I exclusively talked about a competent one.

what it comes down to is this: in open savannah and high gras, with a bunch of sunday hunters having stupid heads under their caps, a competent archer using silence and camouflage very probably will outclass them and kill them from ranges of up to 100m. and if they manage to approach his location where he lies in ambush and the archer also being competent in sword fighting, they again have very bad chances. Tactics and camouflage and stealth are very powerful weapons. Individual competence with a weapon is a key variable, of course.

An Subman, if you ever come with an M16 (do you hunt lions with an M16...?) to me and I have a sword and you step through the door at armslength - I for example could easily doom your weapon to inefficiency by stepping towards you so that you have no more room left to manouveur your M16 - while I can still use my sword to full effect ;) If I emrbace and kiss you, how do you point an M16 at me, then? :lol: I also don't believe you that you swing a rifle as quickly by a 90° as I hack or stab with a sword from any position and even backwards when going for you serious and in anger. You would gain in movement speed by using a small pistol, for example. But such a small and agile weapon again is something different.

If the scanrio is different, and comes to military grounds, of course I wouldn't not limit myself to bows and swords, and would use mor emodern weapons as well. Which does not mean that I would rule out my ancient relics in all imaginable situations.

Wow! Talk about a long response!!! Won't help change the facts though.

If you step towards someone armed with an assualt rifle, they can move the gun in a similar fasion as your sword, and still shoot you, from the hip or even one handed if need be! Any scenario where a sword can be weilded, a gun of similar length can be more efficiently weilded as well. Weight is light at about 3 kilo's for an AR. Recoil is nearly non existant due to the long recoil spring into the stock to absorb it, plus other enhancements such as the gas line feeding the block directly. Trust me - no matter how much you write, someone with a sword is 'always' the looser. Unless you are Hollywood of course. So basically, I will laugh last and best if you even think of trying to go after someone in that manner!

The only way a sword can win anything is with the element of surprise against an unprepared enemy - ie - no clip inserted, etc. Still, the weapon can also be used not only as a club, but will do fine in blocking any sword strike, especially since the typical M-16 has a heavy steel barrel (My AR does). The bad part is, the element of surprise also works for the weilder of the gun just as easiliy.

The old addage - never bring a knife to a gunfight! Old cowboy saying.

-S

PS. I would hunt Lions with an M-16. The 5.56mm round with the steel penetrator is incredibly effective if it achieves disired velocity - which results from firing from an acceptable length barrel. Personally, I don't think anything less than 16" should be used, but apparently, fragmentation can still occur from a 14.5" barrel. Basically, use a 16" barrel, and everything will be good.

PPS. I know you have watched too many Ninja movies though and I am probably wasting my breath. Saw one Ninja movie where the Ninja disappears through chenneling his Chi! WoW! Wish I could do that! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

Some info from this site:

http://www.ak-47.us/AK-47vsM-16.php

The 223 ammunition it uses. The rifle has enough power to kill humans or deer if not bears and cape buffalo, is accurate out to several hundred yards and, with heavy (75 - 95 grain) bullets and quick-twist barrels, can shoot to 800 - 1000 yards. It is accurate and allows rapid, well-aimed fire.

That might answer your questions on whether or not its good to shoot lions with. Bears have thicker skulls and are more dangerous!

They should technically call it 5.56mm since .223 is a lower powered round for varmit hunting with sporting rifles, not M-16's/AR-15's which use a more powerful round.

[Skybird]

I think you suffer from this old american BIB-syndrome (bigger is always better) :lol:

Okay, you and me, and a house between us. I know what you have, any kind of 3kg assault rifle, and you know what I have, a 1.2 kg Katana. I assume that you can aim precisley, and you assume that I can handle a sword precisely, and fast. We both enter the house from different directions. You ammo is limited, mine is not. I am used to move in the way that is needed to maximize my weapons efficiency, while you are probably much slower in your movement. You would prefer open space, large rooms and gangs, so that any approach by me gives you enough reaction time, and long viewing sights. You would avoid close infight, I would seek it. I would prefer a more covered area and would depend on more conceilment and stealth, but do not depend on wether I have enough space for traditional fighting, or not. I know if you spot me without me being in combat range, I'm dead. You doubt that I could pose a thread no matter if at long range or short range or hand-hand-range. We both have no doubt that my job is much tougher. But is it impossible?

Could become interesting, and a long waiting game. :lol:

Not that this has anything to do with the idiots-hunting-lions-and-get-bowed-down-by-me-scenario. hunting for food is one thing. Hunting for trophies or sick pleasure si something different. A camera-gun would be the better option for that kind of hunt, I think. I find needless killing and making a hobby of it disgusting.

Oh, and just this, a triple-blade arrowheads makes a huge and terrible wound if fired with enough compression strength (?), say everything beyond 60 lb at 80m (just a rough estimation), braking bones in it's path instead of getting deflected, so that the archer even does not depend on shooting a soft spot in your anatomy. You better consider every hit in your body, not just limbs, to be lethal. Such an arrowhead does not stamp a clean, surgical hole in your flesh, but really tears your flesh and bones apart around the impact area, like a knife that gets put in your body, and then turned and twisted. Of course, such arrowheads are illegal, but you can find them if you want to. The arrowheads of the english longbows also are good enough to brake through the heavy plate-armour of the knights they were designed for to take out, also chainmail. Not bad when considering that chainmail can prevent penetration from the smallest pistol callibre rounds under optimal conditions (according to a testing they showed in a docu on TV some time ago - i didn't believe it before, but I saw it).

[SUBMAN1]

I think you suffer from this old american BIB-syndrome (bigger is always better) :lol:

Okay, you and me, and a house between us. I know what you have, any kind of 3kg assault rifle, and you know what I have, a 1.2 kg Katana. I assume that you can aim precisley, and you assume that I can handle a sword precisely, and fast. We both enter the house from different directions. You ammo is limited, mine is not. I am used to move in the way that is needed to maximize my weapons efficiency, while you are probably much slower in your movement. You would prefer open space, large rooms and gangs, so that any approach by me gives you enough reaction time, and long viewing sights. You would avoid close infight, I would seek it. I would prefer a more covered area and would depend on more conceilment and stealth, but do not depend on wether I have enough space for traditional fighting, or not. I know if you spot me without me being in combat range, I'm dead. You doubt that I could pose a thread no matter if at long range or short range or hand-hand-range. We both have no doubt that my job is much tougher. But is it impossible?

Could become interesting, and a long waiting game. :lol:

Not that this has anything to do with the idiots-hunting-lions-and-get-bowed-down-by-me-scenario. hunting for food is one thing. Hunting for trophies or sick pleasure si something different. A camera-gun would be the better option for that kind of hunt, I think. I find needless killing and making a hobby of it disgusting.

Oh, and just this, a triple-blade arrowheads makes a huge and terrible wound if fired with enough compression strength (?), say everything beyond 60 lb at 80m (just a rough estimation), braking bones in it's path instead of getting deflected, so that the archer even does not depend on shooting a soft spot in your anatomy. You better consider every hit in your body, not just limbs, to be lethal. Such an arrowhead does not stamp a clean, surgical hole in your flesh, but really tears your flesh and bones apart around the impact area, like a knife that gets put in your body, and then turned and twisted. Of course, such arrowheads are illegal, but you can find them if you want to. The arrowheads of the english longbows also are good enough to brake through the heavy plate-armour of the knights they were designed for to take out, also chainmail. Not bad when considering that chainmail can prevent penetration from the smallest pistol callibre rounds under optimal conditions (according to a testing they showed in a docu on TV some time ago - i didn't believe it before, but I saw it).

Nothing is impossible. Just that surprise is mandatory in your situation to even have a chance. And you forget that people move and don't stand still waiting for you to do something, and that your enemy could also be the one with the surprise on you! ;) And if someone who has a 30 round clip in their rifle can't hit you with the first or second shot, (let alone 30, and since you are probably carrying another 90 rounds worth of clips, and probably another handgun as backup) deserves to get hit! Missing with an assault rifle (well, an AK maybe not, but missing with an AR/M16 is unacceptable) at less than 100 feet is a hard thing to do, let alone less than 100 yards! That is why it is an offensive weapon, not defensive such as a handgun.

Besides, if you want to use this rifle as a handgun, it can be employed somewhat reliably with one hand if need be, though that does get tiring after a while, and suffers from less accuracy.

Basically, everything about your situation is at an disadvantage. Not a good thing. Get yourself a rifle. You'll live longer! :p

-S

[lesrae]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:

In this day and age I have to agree.

[Oberon]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:

In this day and age I have to agree.

:yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:

[SUBMAN1]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:
In this day and age I have to agree.

Nuisance animals sometimes have to be dealt with.

[Oberon]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:
In this day and age I have to agree.

Nuisance animals sometimes have to be dealt with.

Humans are a nuisance and could probably be considered animals, but who's dealing with us?

[SUBMAN1]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:
In this day and age I have to agree.
Nuisance animals sometimes have to be dealt with.
Humans are a nuisance and could probably be considered animals, but who's dealing with us?

The bad scenario is if its the cats dealing with us. Then all the farmers out there will go on a cat killing spree themselves and you'll have hundreds of them dead instead of one.

But I agree with your assesment.

-S

[Oberon]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:
In this day and age I have to agree.
Nuisance animals sometimes have to be dealt with.
Humans are a nuisance and could probably be considered animals, but who's dealing with us?

The bad scenario is if its the cats dealing with us. Then all the farmers out there will go on a cat killing spree themselves and you'll have hundreds of them dead instead of one.

But I agree with your assesment.

-S

Touche, but at the end of the day, who put the cats in the position that they are hunting livestock? Go back a century or two and they had the plains, occasionally they'd still attack humans, mainly when they got in the way, or if you had a flipped out cat (happens to the best of us) but eventually we took control of their landscape and began trying to shape it to suit us. What goes 'round, comes 'round.
Same thing is happening in some parts of India with Elephants. You kick the beast, it's gonna bite back. :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

Hunting any big wild cats is sick, just another sad reflection on the world we live on.

:nope: :x :nope: :x :nope:
In this day and age I have to agree.
Nuisance animals sometimes have to be dealt with.
Humans are a nuisance and could probably be considered animals, but who's dealing with us?
The bad scenario is if its the cats dealing with us. Then all the farmers out there will go on a cat killing spree themselves and you'll have hundreds of them dead instead of one.

But I agree with your assesment.

-S
Touche, but at the end of the day, who put the cats in the position that they are hunting livestock? Go back a century or two and they had the plains, occasionally they'd still attack humans, mainly when they got in the way, or if you had a flipped out cat (happens to the best of us) but eventually we took control of their landscape and began trying to shape it to suit us. What goes 'round, comes 'round.
Same thing is happening in some parts of India with Elephants. You kick the beast, it's gonna bite back. :nope:

This is exactly why I said I agree with your assesment - as I stated above. THe humans have also become a nuisance to the cat.

-S

[Oberon]

Cool :up: You know me, I tend to ramble on abit...especially when it comes to animal welfare... ;)

[Skybird]

Nothing is impossible. Just that surprise is mandatory in your situation to even have a chance. And you forget that people move and don't stand still waiting for you to do something, and that your enemy could also be the one with the surprise on you! ;) And if someone who has a 30 round clip in their rifle can't hit you with the first or second shot, (let alone 30, and since you are probably carrying another 90 rounds worth of clips, and probably another handgun as backup) deserves to get hit! Missing with an assault rifle (well, an AK maybe not, but missing with an AR/M16 is unacceptable) at less than 100 feet is a hard thing to do, let alone less than 100 yards! That is why it is an offensive weapon, not defensive such as a handgun.

Besides, if you want to use this rifle as a handgun, it can be employed somewhat reliably with one hand if need be, though that does get tiring after a while, and suffers from less accuracy.

Basically, everything about your situation is at an disadvantage. Not a good thing. Get yourself a rifle. You'll live longer! :p

-S

If this... if that... well, if i got strapped down to the ground and can't move and the enemy knows where I am and have positioned a GPS beside my head and has called in an airstrike to hit that coordinate, then my situation is not rosy. But that is not the situation I was talking about. I was talking about opponents made of sunday-hunters armed with hunting guns in that kind of environment as to be seen in the video. And there i would consider a rifle for myself even a disadvantage, for the first shot would give away my position, while I have several enemies to face - not good. A mixture of stealth tactic and silent weapons would always be the option that I prefer in that situation. Just that a good bow in capable hands has a better range for precision fire than a silenced pistol, and also adds an extra psychological shock to the enemy, and with according arrowheads is more lethal than a silenced pistol.

You are right about surprise. But who said that surprise hasn't been part of my agenda from the first post on? Of course, if you have a bow, you would use different tactics than if you would have a rifle. i would use a rifle as a club as long as they are not aware of my exact location. :lol:

[Oberon]

If this... if that... well, if i got strapped down to the ground and can't move and the enemy knows where I am and have positioned a GPS beside my head and has called in an airstrike to hit that coordinate, then my situation is not rosy.

Depends who's bombing ;)

[Skybird]

:lol:

[Yahoshua]

For information regarding ammo penetration vs. different mediums go here:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

To settle the matter of who can get hurt faster (sword or firearm) Go here:

(You may need to refresh the page to get the video to work).

http://www.blogtelevision.net/p/Videos-Watch-a-Video___1,2,,11006.html

And just an fyi: The last time I fired a rifle (over a year ago now) I was capable of snap-shooting (prone) a string of 4 rounds and successfully hit 4 soda cans at 400 meters (with scope, and bolt action Remington 710).

[SUBMAN1]

I think the sword vs rifle conversation ranks as one of the dumbest conversations I have had in a long while, but it has been entertaining. Especially how, given enough time, Skybird can wipe out the entire US army alone the way he talks! Hahahahaha!

The point is, it is near impossible to miss with an AR at 50 feet or less, even shooting from the hip. Less than 25 feet, you could do it one handed! And, now the final thing - I give you 100% chacne of loosing outdoors agains an AR equiped enemy. And I give you about 99.9% chance of losing within a confined space where you surprised your enemy, .09% chance of getting killed while killing your enemy (Unlike movies, people can be expected to have full functioning of thier minds and body for about 15 to 20 seconds, even if you completely remove the heart with your sword - only way around this is to actually shoot them and hit either spinal cord or brain - so you run them through and they will still kill you!), and about .01% of actually suceeding in your task by coming up from behind, stabbing them and holding them down for that 15 to 20 seconds.

Anyway you slice it - you're screwed. But it was a fun conversation!

-S

[Skybird]

I wonder what all this has to do with bringing down some stupid trophy hunters in high grass with a bow - my starting point...

And still the best rifle does not help you if you have no target you can see! :lol:

[SUBMAN1]

I wonder what all this has to do with bringing down some stupid trophy hunters in high grass with a bow - my starting point...

And still the best rifle does not help you if you have no target you can see! :lol:

yeah yeah - super ninja turn invisible skybird that has super invisibility powers! :roll:

-S

[Skybird]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)

[August]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)


Well you did set rather narrow conditions. You being the know all ninja man hunter lying in wait and prepared to strike swiftly against a group of unsuspecting, possibly inebriated trophy hunters.

People are always easier to sneak up on when they aren't expecting trouble.

[SUBMAN1]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)


Well you did set rather narrow conditions. You being the know all ninja man hunter lying in wait and prepared to strike swiftly against a group of unsuspecting, possibly inebriated trophy hunters.

People are always easier to sneak up on when they aren't expecting trouble.

Alas! Someone with a brain! Isn't the whole scenario based around both parties expecting each other? Hence - no surprise will ever happen which = 100% chance Skybird is about to be 6 feet under if he tries since his enemy will surely win! Not sure why he keeps wanting to stab me though. I refer to a hypothetical situation, against an AR/M16 carrying enemy, and he keeps using me as an example. Not sure if I should read into this or not!:o :o :o

-S

[August]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)

Well you did set rather narrow conditions. You being the know all ninja man hunter lying in wait and prepared to strike swiftly against a group of unsuspecting, possibly inebriated trophy hunters.

People are always easier to sneak up on when they aren't expecting trouble.
Alas! Someone with a brain! Isn't the whole scenario based around both parties expecting each other? Hence - no surprise will ever happen which = 100% chance Skybird is about to be 6 feet under if he tries since his enemy will surely win! Not sure why he keeps wanting to stab me though. I refer to a hypothetical situation, against an AR/M16 carrying enemy, and he keeps using me as an example. Not sure if I should read into this or not!:o :o :o

-S

Well, I thought the whole scenario was based around Skys rather unadorned comment that he'd like to be hunting trophy hunters and my reply that i thought that trophy hunters might also want to hunt him. From there the thread went from a discussion of various weapons to urban fighting techniques but there was no real agreement by the discussions various participants as to the specific situation would be.

Basicly, if i understand it correctly, Sky just wants a chance to brutally murder unsuspecting civilians with his collection of archaic weapons in order to obtain revenge for the killing of an animal for purposes other than obtaining food. He neither expects, nor wants, his victims to be alerted in any way that he's out there laying in wait for them, hence our argument that the sword and bow are inferior to modern military firearms is moot.

On the other hand once his crimes became known to the local authorities i firmly believe that he'd be hunted down like a dog in short order, ninja stealth training or not, so it's all good. :yep:

[SUBMAN1]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)

Well you did set rather narrow conditions. You being the know all ninja man hunter lying in wait and prepared to strike swiftly against a group of unsuspecting, possibly inebriated trophy hunters.

People are always easier to sneak up on when they aren't expecting trouble.
Alas! Someone with a brain! Isn't the whole scenario based around both parties expecting each other? Hence - no surprise will ever happen which = 100% chance Skybird is about to be 6 feet under if he tries since his enemy will surely win! Not sure why he keeps wanting to stab me though. I refer to a hypothetical situation, against an AR/M16 carrying enemy, and he keeps using me as an example. Not sure if I should read into this or not!:o :o :o

-S
Well, I thought the whole scenario was based around Skys rather unadorned comment that he'd like to be hunting trophy hunters and my reply that i thought that trophy hunters might also want to hunt him. From there the thread went from a discussion of various weapons to urban fighting techniques but there was no real agreement by the discussions various participants as to the specific situation would be.

Basicly, if i understand it correctly, Sky just wants a chance to brutally murder unsuspecting civilians with his collection of archaic weapons in order to obtain revenge for the killing of an animal for purposes other than obtaining food. He neither expects, nor wants, his victims to be alerted in any way that he's out there laying in wait for them, hence our argument that the sword and bow are inferior to modern military firearms is moot.

On the other hand once his crimes became known to the local authorities i firmly believe that he'd be hunted down like a dog in short order, ninja stealth training or not, so it's all good. :yep:

Its all good, except I am the one he is talking about striking down or being run through!!! :doh::doh::doh:

[August]

Its all good, except I am the one he is talking about striking down or being run through!!! :doh::doh::doh:

Really? You're a trophy hunter? So I've always wondered what motivates guys like you to kill animals, if not for the meat and pelt or to defend the family farm?

I have nothing against hunting or hunters mind you, wouldn't mind to take a buck myself this fall, but i fail to see the worth in trading the life of a fast dissapearing species just so one can stuff its head and mount it on the wall.

[SUBMAN1]

Its all good, except I am the one he is talking about striking down or being run through!!! :doh::doh::doh:

Really? You're a trophy hunter? So I've always wondered what motivates guys like you to kill animals, if not for the meat and pelt or to defend the family farm?

I have nothing against hunting or hunters mind you, wouldn't mind to take a buck myself this fall, but i fail to see the worth in trading the life of a fast dissapearing species just so one can stuff its head and mount it on the wall.

Nope - hate hunting. Can't shoot a squirrel, hate deer hunting (No one told me they cried!) but I am the scourge of all pop cans that are full of carbinated pop! A 5.56mm round does a number on those to where they blow up everywhere!

This is the problem though - I do not hunt, hate killing indescriminantly, yet I am the one always used in Skybirds examples of the guy he is sitting in wait for!!! That is the problem! This is even though I do not hunt for trophies!!!!

-S

[Oberon]

...yet I am the one always used in Skybirds examples of the guy he is sitting in wait for!!!

-S

Look on the bright side, if Skybird is stalking you, at least you know you're not on his ignore list :smug: :lol:

[NEON DEON]

If I was to hunt a Lion, which I would never do, I would not rely on a scoped rifle alone. I would have a few backup weapons. :arrgh!:

Backup weapon #1:ping:

A 12 guage automatic shotgun. As soon as that Lion charges, the rifle is on the ground and the shotgun is drawn.

Backup weapon #2:ping:

A 44 magnum.
If it was good enough for Dirty Harry, it is good enough for me.;)
That is sorta almost the last resort if the Lion reaches me and I use the shot gun to block and it is knocked out of my hand.

And lastly my paranoid self would have a Bouy knife, chainmail, and body armor giving me at least a chance of not being cut to ribbons.:88)

[joea]

Leave the lions alone. :nope:

[snowsub]

yeah, they are an endangered species (http://www.lionsrugby.com/) :lol: :rotfl: :lol:

[Skybird]

Not to mention Subman with his AR-fetish and X-ray-sees all-hits all-swings a rifle around-faster than a cat-ability! :)


Well you did set rather narrow conditions. You being the know all ninja man hunter lying in wait and prepared to strike swiftly against a group of unsuspecting, possibly inebriated trophy hunters.

People are always easier to sneak up on when they aren't expecting trouble.

Alas! Someone with a brain! Isn't the whole scenario based around both parties expecting each other? Hence - no surprise will ever happen which = 100% chance Skybird is about to be 6 feet under if he tries since his enemy will surely win! Not sure why he keeps wanting to stab me though. I refer to a hypothetical situation, against an AR/M16 carrying enemy, and he keeps using me as an example. Not sure if I should read into this or not!:o :o :o

-S
Poor little cat! That M16-scenario was brought in by you - not me. I had those lion hunting heroes from the video in mind, and referred to them. And I still regard them as easy prey, after their performance. Sonntagsjäger. But never mind, Subman. If I am after you in this example, then only because your hair colour would fit nicely into the collection of heads I have already hanging over my chimney - self-chopped, really. :D

[August]

Sonntagsjäger. Sunday Hunter? I assume thats the Deutcher version of "Weekend Warrior"?

Y'know Sky, i've noticed lately that you seem to want to kill an awful lot of people. First it was Muslims, then holy men of all denominations, now it's hunters. It seems to be becoming a common theme with you.

[Skybird]

Sonntagsjäger. Sunday Hunter? I assume thats the Deutcher version of "Weekend Warrior"?

Y'know Sky, i've noticed lately that you seem to want to kill an awful lot of people. First it was Muslims, then holy men of all denominations, now it's hunters. It seems to be becoming a common theme with you.
Yes, absolutely, the more the better, and I hope for a new record this year. As I indicated in another threat, i already have started to put my future victims on a list. :cool: If I would get a a grain of sand for each idol I shatter, then I hope I will drown in sand at the end of my life.

[SUBMAN1]

...yet I am the one always used in Skybirds examples of the guy he is sitting in wait for!!!

-S
Look on the bright side, if Skybird is stalking you, at least you know you're not on his ignore list :smug: :lol:


:lol::lol::rotfl::rotfl:

[August]

Yes, absolutely, the more the better, and I hope for a new record this year. As I indicated in another threat, i already have started to put my future victims on a list. :cool: If I would get a a grain of sand for each idol I shatter, then I hope I will drown in sand at the end of my life.

Except lately you're not talking about idols but rather human beings. So, do you plan to go around murdering people full time or are you intend to be more of a Sonntagsjäger?

BTW:

As I indicated in another threat

Freudian slip or intentional?

[SUBMAN1]

Sonntagsjäger. Sunday Hunter? I assume thats the Deutcher version of "Weekend Warrior"?

Y'know Sky, i've noticed lately that you seem to want to kill an awful lot of people. First it was Muslims, then holy men of all denominations, now it's hunters. It seems to be becoming a common theme with you. Yes, absolutely, the more the better, and I hope for a new record this year. As I indicated in another threat, i already have started to put my future victims on a list. :cool: If I would get a a grain of sand for each idol I shatter, then I hope I will drown in sand at the end of my life.

Wow! Physical threats posted online! Scarry!:huh:

-S

[Skybird]

Yes, absolutely, the more the better, and I hope for a new record this year. As I indicated in another threat, i already have started to put my future victims on a list. :cool: If I would get a a grain of sand for each idol I shatter, then I hope I will drown in sand at the end of my life.

Except lately you're not talking about idols but rather human beings. So, do you plan to go around murdering people full time or are you intend to be more of a Sonntagsjäger?

As long as I get fun from it, I intend to carry on. Those Zen masters of old really were a bloodthirsty bunch of carnivors, you know. ;)

BTW:

As I indicated in another threat

Freudian slip or intentional?
You could find out, but if you find out, I unfortunately would need to kill you. :lol:

[Oberon]

http://img.jeuxvideo.fr/photo/0096000000087027.jpg

Skybird :up:

[Skybird]

:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

http://img.jeuxvideo.fr/photo/0096000000087027.jpg

Skybird :up:

Try Skybirds dreams! Hahahahaha!

[Wim Libaers]

I was talking about opponents made of sunday-hunters armed with hunting guns in that kind of environment as to be seen in the video. And there i would consider a rifle for myself even a disadvantage, for the first shot would give away my position, while I have several enemies to face - not good. A mixture of stealth tactic and silent weapons would always be the option that I prefer in that situation. Just that a good bow in capable hands has a better range for precision fire than a silenced pistol, and also adds an extra psychological shock to the enemy, and with according arrowheads is more lethal than a silenced pistol.

Why not a crossbow? OK, long reload time, but better performance. Or a submachinegun with suppressor and subsonic ammo. Not as deadly as an optimal arrow per shot, but you have a lot of shots ready in the clip. Allows you to use a lower position for shooting (never tried it, but I assume shooting a bow while prone isn't going to be easy).

[August]

You could find out, but if you find out, I unfortunately would need to kill you. :lol:

At least you said "unfortunately". That must mean i haven't made your death list yet.

I'll have to try harder...

[Oberon]

(never tried it, but I assume shooting a bow while prone isn't going to be easy).

IIRC, some of the more skilled Longbowmen were able to shoot arrows whilst sitting down, using their feet to hold the bow and pulling the string back...it wasn't that accurate but it is possible.

[SUBMAN1]

You could find out, but if you find out, I unfortunately would need to kill you. :lol:
At least you said "unfortunately". That must mean i haven't made your death list yet.

I'll have to try harder...

Its pretty obvious that I am on that kill list! :D

[Skybird]

(never tried it, but I assume shooting a bow while prone isn't going to be easy).

IIRC, some of the more skilled Longbowmen were able to shoot arrows whilst sitting down, using their feet to hold the bow and pulling the string back...it wasn't that accurate but it is possible.
Actually there are disciplines at tournaments where the arhcer is not told the distance (he must estimate it himself), is not given wind information, anbd must shoot at artificial "deer" from a mutlitude of different positions, climbing in trees, kneeling, climbing in rocky terrain, lying on tree-branches, and so on. But I have never seen that, or trained that myself. I trained in stand, and rarely in kneeling, that is all.

I never tried crossbows. That's all about it. Reminds me too much of a rifle. I was attracted by the challenge of bows. Also, I assume the reload sequence is much faster with bows.

Hm. all this talking has reawakend my appetite for it. It has been years since I fired my last shot. but if I try it again now, I probably would be deeply frustrated afterwards...

[SUBMAN1]

(never tried it, but I assume shooting a bow while prone isn't going to be easy).
IIRC, some of the more skilled Longbowmen were able to shoot arrows whilst sitting down, using their feet to hold the bow and pulling the string back...it wasn't that accurate but it is possible. Actually there are disciplines at tournaments where the arhcer is not told the distance (he must estimate it himself), is not given wind information, anbd must shoot at artificial "deer" from a mutlitude of different positions, climbing in trees, kneeling, climbing in rocky terrain, lying on tree-branches, and so on. But I have never seen that, or trained that myself. I trained in stand, and rarely in kneeling, that is all.

I never tried crossbows. That's all about it. Reminds me too much of a rifle. I was attracted by the challenge of bows. Also, I assume the reload sequence is much faster with bows.

Hm. all this talking has reawakend my appetite for it. It has been years since I fired my last shot. but if I try it again now, I probably would be deeply frustrated afterwards...

Bow is more versatile, crossbow is more consistant. Take your pick.

[Oberon]

Bows are simpler too, less moving parts = less to go wrong (in theory). I haven't fired a bow in ages, not really anywhere here at the moment I can get to to use it...at our old house there used to be a field behind us we could practice in with our makeshift target but there's not really anything like that here. :down:

[SUBMAN1]

Bows are simpler too, less moving parts = less to go wrong (in theory). I haven't fired a bow in ages, not really anywhere here at the moment I can get to to use it...at our old house there used to be a field behind us we could practice in with our makeshift target but there's not really anything like that here. :down:

I used to shoot bows, but gave up. Tired of smacking my wrists every now and then.

[Oberon]

Bows are simpler too, less moving parts = less to go wrong (in theory). I haven't fired a bow in ages, not really anywhere here at the moment I can get to to use it...at our old house there used to be a field behind us we could practice in with our makeshift target but there's not really anything like that here. :down:
I used to shoot bows, but gave up. Tired of smacking my wrists every now and then.

Yah, that is painful, but that's what bracers are for ;)

[SUBMAN1]

Bows are simpler too, less moving parts = less to go wrong (in theory). I haven't fired a bow in ages, not really anywhere here at the moment I can get to to use it...at our old house there used to be a field behind us we could practice in with our makeshift target but there's not really anything like that here. :down:
I used to shoot bows, but gave up. Tired of smacking my wrists every now and then.
Yah, that is painful, but that's what bracers are for ;)

Had that, but they don't always work!

-S

[Oberon]

True, I've had the string hit just in front of the bracer and then attempt to take the bracer off my arm...stings a bit.
Though my personal best was releasing the string and the arrow just falling out the bow and onto the ground in front of me. The string even made a comical twanging sound to add to the mix. Second try I got it right ;)

(EDIT: Just like this guy at 1:43 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blxGgVuEvzs) :D )