Need a reccomendation for a post-WW2 subsim

[ssfsx17]

I used to play the old 688 Attack Sub game for DOS and found it very addictive. I haven't been following the subsim scene since then (because I didn't know there was a scene) but now I see that the most popular game is a WW2-era game. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm interested in a subsim that involves missiles, lots of electronics, etc. and was wondering which one I should get.

[aaken]

the most recent one is Dangerous Waters http://www.scs-dangerouswaters.com/
it's a tactical sub-ASW simulation in which you can drive subs (Akula,688,Seawolf,Kilo) or Perry FFGs or MH60 helos or OrionP3 aircrafts.

[Skybird]

However, you may find a smile price copy of Sub Command (in stores as well as at ebay), which is Dangerous Waters reduced to the submarines, without frigates, choppers, airplanes available to the player. For 5 euros, it's a good first try. SC has a also a heavily modded database available, giving you more finetuned sensors, and more unti classes. It's named SCX-II.

[Smaragdadler]

And you can download my Landlubber Guide, which contains tips to get things 'rolling'...:yep:

[goldorak]

However, you may find a smile price copy of Sub Command (in stores as well as at ebay), which is Dangerous Waters reduced to the submarines, without frigates, choppers, airplanes available to the player. For 5 euros, it's a good first try. SC has a also a heavily modded database available, giving you more finetuned sensors, and more unti classes. It's named SCX-II.
No its not Skybird, and you know that perfectly. :arrgh!:
Sub Command doesn't implement neither the realistic physics engine of Dw nor the advanced sonar model (which is based on raytracing techniques).
Realistic sensor and weapons mods (LWAMI) in the last version 4.0 are waaaaaaay more advanced than what you find in the SCX mod.
Sub Command doesn't implement multistation nor an integrated naval battlespace.

[Fish]

However, you may find a smile price copy of Sub Command (in stores as well as at ebay), which is Dangerous Waters reduced to the submarines, without frigates, choppers, airplanes available to the player. For 5 euros, it's a good first try. SC has a also a heavily modded database available, giving you more finetuned sensors, and more unti classes. It's named SCX-II.
No its not Skybird, and you know that perfectly. :arrgh!:
Sub Command doesn't implement neither the realistic physics engine of Dw nor the advanced sonar model (which is based on raytracing techniques).
Realistic sensor and weapons mods (LWAMI) in the last version 4.0 are waaaaaaay more advanced than what you find in the SCX mod.
Sub Command doesn't implement multistation nor an integrated naval battlespace.

Spare your breath. :rotfl:

[goldorak]

Spare your breath. :rotfl:

I know that Skybird was not happy about DW (the battlefront version which was a late beta) and he can't overcome the slow patch process by SCS and i can accept this.
What i can't accept are the lies he tells about Dw.
If you don't know something Sybird get your facts strait and don't invent things just for the sake of putting crap over DW.
:nope:

[Skybird]

Can't you adress me just a single time without showing me how big your mouth is, Goldorak? - If I would have wanted to bash DW, I would have told this guy who asked the question about the nonsatisfying patching status, and that DW has some serious bugs that have prevented me to assume you can control and steer your sub in a reliable way - back then I described it en detail what my sub is doing in response to certain commands. I have understood that you and the guys in the DW forum like DW, that'S why you visit the forum. Those that do not like it, are no more there, logical. I also have understood that several former SC-players put DW on ice, like me, and many people I told about DW by content in the early weeks after it'S relöease did not like it - too complex. It is only fair to tell someone to try SC for 5 bucks eventually, before he spends 40 bucks just to learn he does not like it. A more complex sonar model does not change that. Gameplay-wise, DW is very much SC with addito9nal frigate, helicopter and aircraft. A newbie will not even realize in the first months that the sonar model is different.:down:

[goldorak]

Can't you adress me just a single time without showing me how big your mouth is, Goldorak?

I guess not. :rotfl:


- If I would have wanted to bash DW, I would have told this guy who asked the question about the nonsatisfying patching status, and that DW has some serious bugs that have prevented me to assume you can control and steer your sub in a reliable way - back then I described it en detail what my sub is doing in response to certain commands.

Did you even try the last version ?


I have understood that you and the guys in the DW forum like DW, that'S why you visit the forum. Those that do not like it, are no more there, logical. I also have understood that several former SC-players put DW on ice, like me, and many people I told about DW by content in the early weeks after it'S relöease did not like it - too complex.

The battlefront release was basically a beta so its normal many old time players (of sc) were not pleased.
Considering also the very restricitve mod policy on Dw and its fairly easy to understand why many players decided to stay with sc.


It is only fair to tell someone to try SC for 5 bucks eventually, before he spends 40 bucks just to learn he does not like it. A more complex sonar model does not change that. Gameplay-wise, DW is very much SC with addito9nal frigate, helicopter and aircraft. A newbie will not even realize in the first months that the sonar model is different.:down:
First of all, this guy asked for a modern naval simulation with lots of electronics sensors etc....
He doesn't have to spend blindly 40 bucks, you know there is a demo out there. :roll:
Gameplay-wise Skybird, DW is as close to SC as pluto is close to the sun.
Wow your last sentence astounds me, so why he is a newbie, he won't understand nor have the desire to learn tma, sonar basic theory etc... so why even try sub command.
Lets give him a naval simulation from the mid eighties.
Nothing too complex you understand, just press a button and have the torpedo go right to the enemy unit, no tma, no accurate sonar modelling, no layers etc... just point and shoot.

[Skybird]

Did I even try the latest version? - Yes. Thread in the DW-forum.

[goldorak]

Did I even try the latest version? - Yes. Thread in the DW-forum.

I thought you selled your copy ages ago. :D

I'm not against you Skybird, i respect why you don't like DW.
In any case my initial post was only to get the facts right about DW.
SC is not a simplified DW as you said (that's giving too much credit to SC), i just wanted to put the record strait.
The only thing they share is the graphics, but it starts and it finishes there.

[SUBMAN1]

I kind of put DW on ice too till they get the weird sub control stuff figured out. I did like playing through the OHP missions though - that was rather entertaining!

-S

[ssfsx17]

Thanks for the reccomendations and the, uh, discussion. At least you guys have basically narrowed it down to two games for me, which I do appreciate.

[SUBMAN1]

Thanks for the reccomendations and the, uh, discussion. At least you guys have basically narrowed it down to two games for me, which I do appreciate.

Dangerous Waters is a very good sim still - so I recommend that is your first choice. The control problems only happen upon torp evasion where you get some strange depth changes, but its manageable if you plan for it.

Imagine DW as being Sub Command but completely enhanced.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

One more thing - send me a PM if you want GT3B2 since it is exceedingly difficult to find. The one I use plugs into CDEX which is a well known ripper.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdexos/

-S

[Skybird]

Thanks for the reccomendations and the, uh, discussion. At least you guys have basically narrowed it down to two games for me, which I do appreciate.

Dangerous Waters is a very good sim still - so I recommend that is your first choice. The control problems only happen upon torp evasion where you get some strange depth changes, but its manageable if you plan for it.
No, it's more. When combining turns and depth changes at low speeds, you eventually find yourself spinning on the point like a mad compass needle, doing 360° turns in just 5-6 seconds and hopping up and dopwn between depth levels like a rubber ball, gaining or loosing several hundred feet - again in just seconds. You can only reliably avoid that reliably when running fast (good idea when you are undetected and enemy is near :dead: ) or when not combining depth and course changes (adds some spice to wanting to avoid an incoming torpedo :dead: ) I described that in my thread after 1.03 came out. And as I said, I was able to recreate the problematic situation at will.

Once upon a long time in the past there were reports on other issues with sonar and weapons behavior as well, but I never came far enough with DW to check them out.
"Status: unpatched", since time: 1 year, 5 months. :arrgh!:

No wonder that DW has lost me long time ago. Potential: great, but service: extremely poor. Forum presence cannot replace repairs.

[SUBMAN1]

Thanks for the reccomendations and the, uh, discussion. At least you guys have basically narrowed it down to two games for me, which I do appreciate.

Dangerous Waters is a very good sim still - so I recommend that is your first choice. The control problems only happen upon torp evasion where you get some strange depth changes, but its manageable if you plan for it.
No, it's more. When combining turns and depth changes at low speeds, you eventually find yourself spinning on the point like a mad compass needle, doing 360° turns in just 5-6 seconds and hopping up and dopwn between depth levels like a rubber ball, gaining or loosing several hundred feet - again in just seconds. You can only reliably avoid that reliably when running fast (good idea when you are undetected and enemy is near :dead: ) or when not combining depth and course changes (adds some spice to wanting to avoid an incoming torpedo :dead: ) I described that in my thread after 1.03 came out. And as I said, I was able to recreate the problematic situation at will.

Once upon a long time in the past there were reports on other issues with sonar and weapons behavior as well, but I never came far enough with DW to check them out.
"Status: unpatched", since time: 1 year, 5 months. :arrgh!:

No wonder that DW has lost me long time ago.

Skybird is just staing his inandequicies in general submarine skippering. See, if he didn't get detected in the first place, he wouldn't have half these problems! :p

-S

[SUBMAN1]

I see I posted some irrelevant posts in the wrong thread up there. I'll move it later.

-S

[Skybird]

Nonsens. If I have a racing sim and the car moves left when the wheel is turned left, and the car moves left when the wheel is turned to the right, then that has nothing to do with inadequate driver abbilties. It has something to do with that the steering module is BROKEN. turning to port or starboard while going from 150 to 300 ft and all that at just 5 kn is a reasonable manouveur and should not result in your sub going amok and spinning like a top.