View Full Version : Attacking a Convoy Tip please
I just experianced my first career convoy (yea sorry I know) and here what I did: I set a intercept coarse to the convoy while trying to achieve a good 90 degree angle on them. Seas were kinda heavy with light fog so I thought I'd try and get in close before going to PD. Dumb idea becuase a black swan spotted me and when I saw him coming torwards me I dove to 120 and started doing evasive manuevers. 10 min later my boat goes down with all hands lost:nope: What could I do better next time?
kiwi_2005
07-12-06, 11:21 PM
What year was it? early yrs you can pretty much attack on the surface providing its dark that is. Otherwise try to get in front of the convoy with them just in site as your speeding ahead to your course - keeping an eye on the escorts, be just out of there range so they dont detect you. Then once your in position lay in wait like a wolf ready to pounce!
MobyGrape
07-12-06, 11:59 PM
"Press the Attack.":know:
Think you were unlucky 1940..destroyers weren't to good..tho in my first 2 career campaigns with greywolves mod..I was sunk in my 2 and 3rd missions..I was surprised at the new damage model..excuses..
When attacking a convoy i like to approach from there sides..unless i can get in early and fairly deep,and remain patient and very quite.. right in their path.i love storms and night attacks..helps to hide periscope from radar..I think also sonar should have a little more trouble detecting you..The main key is don't get seem or heard, have your repair crew refreshed and ready, get repair qualified Petty officers asap especially a officer..I also like to have my best sonar man reporting nearest warship when at periscope debth, and setting my shots on merchies.
i am now in my 3rd career, 13 mission 250k at present..good luck..:arrgh!:
Convoys are pretty much the bane of my existence. Whenever I attack them, no matter what I do, the destroyers always know exactly where I am at all times, stormy or not, even in the dead of night. Complete with anti-sonar coatings and dummies. It's for that reason that I never touch a convoy 40-nm stick unless it's a small one in 39-40.
-Qairyl
One of SH3's big drawbacks is that the way that escorts detect your boat isn't as accurate to historical standards and there isn't much that the modders can do without a dev released tool. So its not very easy to do what Kretchmer did, zipping in and out of convoys though getting close can be done, however it does require about as much attention to your position as the real kaleuns needed. Just keep plodding on. The benefits of being an armchair Kaleun is that there's always next time.:up:
andy_311
07-13-06, 04:48 AM
Have you tried attacking from the front? .Track the convoy just out of range get to about 25-30km and then try and place your boat dead centre to the approching convoy,go to pd and head towards the convoy at about 2knts.
I normally take out the lead escort out just in case I mess thing up and you have then 1 less escort to worry about.
bigboywooly
07-13-06, 07:04 AM
I like to sit out in front about 6km and get a good heading for convoy - unless there are anyescorts sweeping out front - then sit at PD and aim to get myself on a 90 AOB between two columns
That way I get a good bow and stern shot off at a good angle before they all start moving about after the hits
Good thing is as long as they dont move too much you are still in a good position to take out the 2nd ship in both columns with another bow and stern shot
If the first ships you hit slow down its even better as the following ships in the column slow also making them easier to hit
And of course as your in the middle of the convoy is harder for the escorts to find you - they are normally looking to the flanks - and easier to get away by diving under the convoy
You just have to be quiet - stay on slow speed so the ships dont detect you
And if the weathers bad so much the better
grottewoord
07-13-06, 10:16 AM
I'm on my 10th patrol (August 1940) in a VIIB for 1st flotilla (I got a transfer from 7th because I was tired of the long winding way from Kiel) and I've had contact with 7 or 8 convoys so far, several times 2 of them on the same patrol. Now I go to AM51 or 52 and I wait for them to appear.
Recently I've attacked convoys beginning with escorts and always at night. I have observed that although they go often snaking before or around the convoy, sometimes they take long winding excursions 5-7 km away from it. When they return they do it always following a straight course. This is the moment to catch them!
When I sink an escort another comes usually to see what's the matter on a straight fast course, so it's easy to get it too.
When I'm done with the 2-3 escorts (this may take some time) and it's dark enough I surface and sink the ships with the deck gun to spare torpedoes. If I use all the ammo I resort to torpedoes then.
Once I found a troop transport that began shooting at my U-boot! I submerged and sunk it with just 1 torpedo so I could surface and finish with the rest of ships. I'm just annoyed when there are neutral ships in the convoy because I must be careful no to get negative renown points.
bigboywooly
07-13-06, 10:52 AM
I'm on my 10th patrol (August 1940) in a VIIB for 1st flotilla (I got a transfer from 7th because I was tired of the long winding way from Kiel) and I've had contact with 7 or 8 convoys so far, several times 2 of them on the same patrol. Now I go to AM51 or 52 and I wait for them to appear.
Recently I've attacked convoys beginning with escorts and always at night. I have observed that although they go often snaking before or around the convoy, sometimes they take long winding excursions 5-7 km away from it. When they return they do it always following a straight course. This is the moment to catch them!
When I sink an escort another comes usually to see what's the matter on a straight fast course, so it's easy to get it too.
When I'm done with the 2-3 escorts (this may take some time) and it's dark enough I surface and sink the ships with the deck gun to spare torpedoes. If I use all the ammo I resort to torpedoes then.
Once I found a troop transport that began shooting at my U-boot! I submerged and sunk it with just 1 torpedo so I could surface and finish with the rest of ships. I'm just annoyed when there are neutral ships in the convoy because I must be careful no to get negative renown points.
Well with Anvarts lighted ships any that you do find in a convoy ( which there shouldnt be ) are lit up
IIRC uboat orders were if a neutral ship was in an armed convoy it was fair game for sinking
I haven't read all the other replies so apologies if I repeat.
I'm not insinuating anything, but, there are many posts on these forums with great tactics on how to attack convoys. If you want a good account search these and I'm sure you'll find all the information that a new Kaleun needs. There are also tutorials and there's a sticky up top on the forums with instructions. You may have not known about these so there it is.
A couple of quick tips:
1. Don't be afraid to sink the DEs. They're worth nothing in terms of tonnage and renown, but if one is rushing at you, sinking them makes your job on the convoy easier. You can either shoot straight ahead or turn so your stern is facing him. Keep your periscope up to present an inviting target. Ready your fish to magnetic trigger set about 1 - 2 metres deeper than his keel. Wait until he's close, like 700 - 500 metres, then let loose. Electric fish work best since they don't leave a wake. 99% of the time you'll sink them with one shot. Then you can return to the convoy.
2. Attack at night and/or in bad weather. Best is when you have radar and the visibility is at 500 metres. Although these conditions make it hard, you can actually get inside the convoy and do massive damage. Don't get greedy though, attack, break off, and return. This takes some skill and nerves of steel since collisions are a hazard.
3. I shoot at tankers only, usually T3s, so I bee-line it to them first. Shoot and dive. If you wound the tanker you can submerge and steam directly under it. The DEs will circle but they won't be able to touch you. In time they'll leave and you can finish the tanker at your leisure.
4. Get way ahead of the convoy and submerge right in their path. Shut everything off and stay quiet. As the convoy passes over head, pop up behind them and let loose with the acoustic homing eels. They're pretty cool and I've seen them do full circles then race toward the propellers of enemy ships. The ships have to be going at least 12 knots but I've seen the eels home in on slower vessels. Point is you can shoot them from far away without having to aim them precisely, and although they don't always destroy the ships, very often they'll destroy their props. Mark their position on the map and keep after the convoy. You can later return and polish off the wounded one.
5. When setting up, only break the surface with your periscope intermittently. Don't just leave it up. I've found that's one of the best ways to attract DEs.
Thats nice and all tbarak but with NYGM you just can't sit submerged without moving because ovr time you will sink lower and lower into the water.
You being a new guy and all, I wrongly assumed you were running the vanilla version. Well you still have nice advise in that response.
NIGHTFIGHTER
07-15-06, 11:00 PM
Well Thilo, ive joined your club , yes i met my first convoy, i was on the surface and when the searchlight hit me it was the first i knew i was in deep trouble with the cry "weve been spoted sir"( boy was that an understatement!!!) the frigate had a sixth sence, i did manage to sink two of the convoy, then with a resounding BING!!! and 4 splashs my sub went into a death dive and yes that was the end of U-47 having completed only 3 missions. OH HUM:damn:
tycho102
07-16-06, 04:05 PM
I have never conducted a surface attack against a convoy. That, to me, flat out gives up one of the main strengths of having a sub in the first place. With regards to SH3, I am completely against convoy surface attacks under any conditions.
The "dead stick" approach works really outstanding all the way up through 1942. Starting in 1943, you'll have to modify it a bit to be able to use it, but it's still a sound tactic (at least as far as the SH3 model goes). You can cruise at 1knot, and as far as I can tell, you don't make any appreciable noise over a full stop.
Tiptoe in, tiptoe out. Like a cat one would say.
Run an end-around, and tiptoe right back in and out. It's completely possible to hit a convoy twice per day, and if you're a bit lunacidal about it, three times.
Thanks for the tips guys!
robj250
07-16-06, 06:44 PM
I just finished sneaking into the middle of a convoy (4 warships, 11 merchants) I had 7 torpedoes left and was silent running. Made a turn so I was 90° to the east side of the convoy, the fog was so thick I couldn't see much more then 300 metres and the waters were so rough, I've never seen the sea so bad, 10 metre waves sometimes and it was raining cats and dogs. A passenger liner came into view at 285 metres and I had already set my firing as salvo and let the 4 of them go. Sunk it and then I dived to 70 metres and snuck out of there going north. I have 3 torpedoes left so I'm gonna hang around AM76 and see what happens.
HunterICX
07-16-06, 07:29 PM
:cool: I got an Convoy by suprise!
Large Convoy , Moving Slow. Heading towars my side!
I could count 2 Black Swans, 1 Flower, 1 FIJI , couple off Large and Medium Merchants and 1 small one.
I had 9 Torps left (+2 in Outer Reserves)
my basic procedure was actually meeting them a little from the side...but because of the Crappy weather I managed to get in the middle of them....not bad but not really what I hoped for....
but I got a couple of nice shots
3 Large Cargos
1 Medium.
after shooting 3 merchants (2 large, 1 Medium sank)the Blackswans pinged me and i High tailed it out of there...got a couple of DC hits nearby but not dangerous.
I got out of there by 50 KM but I stayed on the course where the Convoy was heading at.... I Loaded my last 3 torps and went back for some more...
and I nailed the last Large Merchants I could shoot at with my 3 Torps and that sinked her
leaving me unarmed and I had to let it go....sadly I couldnt take my clear shot at the Fiji..:cry: Mean Blackswans pinging me....and on Attack run...
But still an decent convoy attack :arrgh!:
Screenshots:
the Contact report:
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/19620185485.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19620185485.jpg&s=f10)
The Fiji:
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/19620205697.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19620205697.jpg&s=f10)
Large KAboom!
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/19620282911.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19620282911.jpg&s=f10)
robj250
07-16-06, 07:36 PM
Great Job Hunter.:up:
NIGHTFIGHTER
07-16-06, 11:21 PM
I think folks that what i love about this game NOTHING is certain. sometimes you can do a beautiful intercept and shot only to have the torps bounce off the target, its a game that keeps you on your toes. and being a novice reading these threads you get some fantastic tip off the more expereance....Thanks Folks!!:rock:
I don't take chances when attacking a convoy. I do it by surprise, I strike heavy, and disappear like a phantom.
This tactic will only work if allies have no radar. However I see people having problems are still in early war so...
When a convoy is spotted by my watch crew (be it because I'm prosecuting a radio BdU contact, or because I find one by plain luck), I draw it's current heading and speed on the map- then I take their same heading and speed and keep on formation from a long range, decks awash (if weather is good enough) while I report to BdU and wait for the night to fall. Usually being at 6kms from the nearest surface contact is enough to keep them on sight and not being detected on return.
In the meantime I do the best I can with the UZO and Binoculars to find out the composition of the convoy. I'ts hard because at those distances you won't see too much, but special targets, such as the casual light cruiser or transatlantic can be identified from that distance.
As soon as the night falls I accelerate 3-4 knots over the convoy's speed and start overtaking them until they're well behind me. Then they do a 90 deg turn towards the convoy position: this sets me in a perfect situation for a perpendicular shot. I keep myself on the surface on a speed that will make my sub to be past the first column of the convoy when it reaches to me. If I see very valuable targets on the opposite side of the convoy, I increase speed. The plan is to be within the convoy, and to have the best targets for my fore tubes within a reasonable distance, for when the moment of firing comes.
As the convoy gets near, I do a proper and thorough identificacion of the ships in the convoy to find where the most important and valuable ships are: T2s and T3s are obvious choices and are present in most convoys. Passenger liners, if any. Light or auxiliary cruisers. I choose 2 of them as targets, and modify my speed accordingly to their position so I will be not farther than 3km from my targets when the moment of firing comes.
Usually the approach towards the intended firing point will put one or two colums of the convoy behind me for the time I open fire. So I choose a target between the ships in those columns (usually is a C2 or C3) for my aft tube/tubes.
At that point, if I'm able to reach my intended firing point at 3 knots or less before the moment I have to open fire, I submerge.
If not, I keep on surface, decks awash, moving at 9 knots , until I see I'm able to reach that intended point at 3 knots or less. If that will take too much time, I raise speed to 11 knots. I won't go higher than this, high speeds make you more visible and can attract escort attention and make the convoy start zig-zagging.
When the time of inmersion comes, order silent running and periscope depth. Take a quick look through periscope each 2 minutes, then lower it. at this speed and with silent running, and with a convoy nearby ,noone will hear you. by having the periscope raised the least time you can, you won't be spotted. You have forward motion, so you will keep your depth ok.
At this point is important, if the seas are rough, to keep depth. Order 14 meters instead of PD. That way you'll sit lower in the water and your conning tower will never be exposed in the steep waves. You pay it in worse periscope visibility but it pays off. There is no real reason to see anything through periscope at the moment other than periodically check the convoy advances: you should have already a proper solution (if you work with manual TDC) and be perfectly aware of where the escorts are.
now is time to plan your torpedo settings. You will be shooting torpedoes in pairs, in single tube fire mode. Select a proper running depth for each pair of eels depending on the target you've selected. If winds are 6 knots or less (relatively calm waters) you can trust on magnetic pistols and under-the-keel hits at a depth of (ship draft+1meter). If waters are rough, go with contact pistols at a depth of 3-4 meters.
Use your fore T-I torpedoes on fast setting for the farther target. Use your remainging 2 torpedoes (T-IIs or T-Is on slow setting) for the nearer target.
If you're in a type IX, Put both aft torpedoes on same speed setting (usually I have a T-I and T-II aft, so both go at 30 knots) and plan the choice of running depth and contact/magnetic pistol accordingly to the situation.
Ok, you're set up. Go to conning tower, open up all your torpedo tubes and wait for the moment to fire.
Keep track of the farthest target ahead. When gyro shows a 000 deg shot, loose the 2 torpedoes you had destined to it. Aim one towards the middle of the ship (machinery spaces and fuel bunkers). The second goes some metres behind that place. The aim is to cause machinery damage with the first impact, and massive flooding with the first and second. You want a confirmed kill, or at the very least to leave the ship dead or moving very slow on the water so you can kill it later.
After you've lost the 2 first eels, estimate the time it will take for the 2 remaining torpedoes you're about to fire to find the mark on the nearer target with your slower running torpedoes. You don't need to be perfectly timed. A simultaneous hit on all targets will be great but 10 second delays won't make you miss your targets. When you estimate that the moment to fire for a more or less timed impact has come, loss the 2 remaining torpedoes at the nearer target in a similar pattern as before. Engines-aft.
Now turn your periscope aft, lock on the target for your aft torpedo/torpedoes. If you have one, aim for the machinery. If you have two, aim in the same pattern as before. Loss torpedoes immediately.
You're job is done. Don't wait for the impacts to happen, you'll hear them while you're on your way down. There's no need to see how your targets blow up. You want to survive, not to see eye candy.
Order 1/3 ahead and a change to deep water. 100 m minimum. When you reach 50m, change to ahead slow for the remainder of the way down.
Order a course that will point your bow towards the aft of the convoy. Escorts won't be able to come for you from the sides of the convoy because of the ships...their probable incoming ways will be from ahead or astern of the convoy itself. By turning this way you give the smaller profile possible. As you already are in silent running, you'll radiate almost no sound (if you want to be completely sure, change speed to 2 knots after reaching 100m), and ASDIC will have little chances to find you because of your very small profile.
That's all. Keep your ears tuned for the possible escort who runs near you, and try to offer the smaller profile to them by turning the boat accordingly. At this moment they're clueless about where you are so their search patterns will be wildly innacurate and probably very far away from you. Only if you get VERY unlucky they'll find you, but if they do you'll be deep and ready to pull evasion tactics easily.
When you're totally sure that the escorts have gone away, bring your boat slowly to PD. Take a look for the results of the attacks. Usually the 2 torpedo pattern I launch do a kick work of anything I shoot at. However if you only have one aft torpedo (you are in a Type VII) the target you fired at with your aft torpedo may still be alive but lagging behind the convoy. There's also the casual T-3 that survives the 2 initial torpedoes, or maybe one of them was a dud and the other hit...well, you get my drift.
In any case it's time to sink the surviving ships (if any). Revoke silent running and start reloading. Finish whatever stragglers are left behind the convoy with the torpedoes as they come on-line...or if you're feeling really lucky and the escorts are really long gone, surface and do the rest of the job with the deck gun. But as soon as you've ended the job, you'd better get the hell out from there at top speed because if you do this, the escorts WILL be back.
I play with GW supermod, and this works like a charm. For late 1940, at least.
hope this tips help.
robj250
07-17-06, 07:47 AM
Thats very true Nightfighter. Take for example my situation yesterday. I had 7 torpedoes left from a previous encounter with a convoy and it was so foggy that I was unable to see much beyond 300 meters, the sea was really rough with 10 ft waves as my conning tower would show above water, raining down cats and dogs. I had a convoy coming right towards me. I'm sitting all stop facing east, silent running. Sonar had picked up 4 warships and 11 merchants. I waited until I was in the middle of the convoy, asked sonar to find the nearest merchant, I got the bearing, raised the periscope and there she was, a passenger liner, 285 meters away just passing me. I set salvo for all 4 tubes, fast and magnetic, because of the rolling of the ships in the water. Impact 1 2 3 4 and I broke her back, she split in two. Secured from silent running so that my remaining 3 torpedoes would load. As soon as all three were loaded I raised the periscope again and there was a C2 Cargo, which had just past me and was at 235 meters and moving away, but the angle of the shot, the torpedoes would have bounced off, so I lowered the scope, rig for silent running, dove to 70 meters and snuck out if the convoy on a bearing of 0°. Oh, yea, it was 8 AM in the morning. So I'm sitting in the convoy lane waiting for another, so I can use the remaining three torpedoes and head home.
robj250
07-20-06, 04:03 PM
Nightfighter:
At what depth do you consider is "decks awash" for a VIIB/2?
tycho102
07-21-06, 11:41 AM
6 meters for a VII, I think. 8 meters for an IX. You need about 2 meters over (under :D) it's fully surfaced depth. The only time this really helps out any is in calm seas. In heavy seas, you're going to already be "covered" by the waves (i.e. decks awash).
robj250
07-21-06, 01:24 PM
6 meters for a VII, I think. 8 meters for an IX. You need about 2 meters over (under :D) it's fully surfaced depth. The only time this really helps out any is in calm seas. In heavy seas, you're going to already be "covered" by the waves (i.e. decks awash).
Thanks Tyco
Von Taticus
07-21-06, 04:20 PM
I have my own technique to take out the escorts from one side and the rear. Then I don't get interupted when taking out the cargos.
What I do is to attract an escort by allowing my self to be detected. Then take evasive manouvers, after it has done an attacking pass. I then study the sonar and make sure he is about 30 degress of my stern. I then go to PD put up the attack scope and slow down and wait for the escort to turn around. as he is turn to face me I then upto flank speed (nice and noisy) and keep adjusting my bearing to keep the escort exactly 180 behind me using the scope. (before doing this I manually set the torps to magnetic / 1 metre lower than hull and dead straight gyro angle.):know:
The escort usually begin to chase me ... As then get to about 600-500 metres I let the fish go, then hard right ... wait for the bang ... hopefully. and dive.
This works most of the time. Its quite exciting :o especially since I play DiD
Do this a couple more times and it can leave a juicy convey exposed for carnage.:arrgh!:
mortakos
07-21-06, 04:25 PM
when weather is good and early in the war try sinking destroyers first with torpedoes.after you can surface and sink the defenceless merchants with the deck gun.i had great tonnage sum using this strategy.
when weather is good and early in the war try sinking destroyers first with torpedoes.after you can surface and sink the defenceless merchants with the deck gun.i had great tonnage sum using this strategy.
That only really works with the stock deck gun settings. The GW and NYGM mods make the deck gun do more realistic damage meaning that you might use up all your ammo on a few ships.
when weather is good and early in the war try sinking destroyers first with torpedoes.after you can surface and sink the defenceless merchants with the deck gun.i had great tonnage sum using this strategy.
That only really works with the stock deck gun settings. The GW and NYGM mods make the deck gun do more realistic damage meaning that you might use up all your ammo on a few ships. yea in NYGM deck guns only have HE.
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