Bad losers, forgetting good sportsmanship

[Skybird]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/argentina/5135996.stm

Comments in Germany on those scenes were very angry and without the smallest understanding or sympathy. Unfortunately not the first time that the Argentinians show poor control of their temper. I vaguely remember to have seen such scenes repeatedly I the last twenty years or so. :down: This time they escalated it so far that a player that even never was on the pitch was given the red.

[Skybird]

Again, wrong forum. Sorry. Mods please move it.

[Skybird]

It becomes even worse. German TV news just has reported that peaceful German viewers in the Goethe-institute in Buenos Aires have been attacked after the match. Also the general mood in Argentinia is reported that the Germans have bribed the referee, that they put pressure in Fifa, and that in no way the German team would have been able to defeat their damn team without help from outside. :nope: But we did, and Argentina is out and I say with that bad attitude of theirs they already survived too long in that tournament.

Never liked Argentina's teams and their ridiculous Maradona-cult. I admit they are strong, but their attitude towards fairness and sportsmanship too often is a mess. This very bad display of misbehavior, unfairness and unsportsmanship this time on a team level, a media level and a national level again reminds me of why I do not like their teams. Glad they have bitten the dust. :down:

Argentien zu Gast bei Siegern! :up:

[goldorak]

Skybird, I understand your enthusiasm for Germany victory over Argentina but lets keep the facts straight ok ?
It is a well known and accepted fact that the host country is always favored by referees decisions.
Teams that play aginst the host country know this and accept it.
That is why during the match many decisions that could have gone either way, the referee decided to advantage the Germans instead of the Argentinians.
Now, at one moment, the Argentinians requested a penalty kick and it was justified, but mystery of the mysteries the german broadcasting didn't show the replay on tv.
And you want to know why ?
Becasue the replay showed clearly that the Argentinians had a valid point and should have gotten the penalty.
Now if the match finished 3-0, etc... biased referees decisions wouldn't have altered the final outcome.
As it stands Germany was incapable of winning over Argentina, and decided to take it to the penalty shootout after 120 min.
In this case the refuted penalty kick for Argentina effectively awarded the match to Germany.
So it is clear that after the match the Argentinians were "not so fair play with the Germans".
This doesn't excuse them for the brawl on the field but i understand it and it can be justified.

[Skybird]

Skybird, I understand your enthusiasm for Germany victory over Argentina but lets keep the facts straight ok ?
It is a well known and accepted fact that the host country is always favored by referees decisions.
Teams that play aginst the host country know this and accept it.
That is why during the match many decisions that could have gone either way, the referee decided to advantage the Germans instead of the Argentinians.
Now, at one moment, the Argentinians requested a penalty kick and it was justified, but mystery of the mysteries the german broadcasting didn't show the replay on tv.
And you want to know why ?
Because the replay showed clearly that the Argentinians had a valid point and should have gotten the penalty.
Now if the match finished 3-0, etc... biased referees decisions wouldn't have altered the final outcome.
As it stands Germany was incapable of winning over Argentina, and decided to take it to the penalty shootout after 120 min.
In this case the refuted penalty kick for Argentina effectively awarded the match to Germany.
So it is clear that after the match the Argentinians were "not so fair play with the Germans".
This doesn't excuse them for the brawl on the field but i understand it and it can be justified.

Your facts, it seems.

I do not share the general criticism of refs at this tournament, no matter if the Germans played or not. some matches had bad refs (Ivanov put himself under pressure, and still oversaw too much in that POR-HOL massacre they had, and the guy doing BRA vs France did a good job i general, but again oversaw a red and a penalty kick versus ARG, and another freekick for the French. But most of those that I saw were really good refs. keeping it tight when they were in risk of loosing control of the match, giving room when the teams were more relaxed. And to call it a well-known "fact" that referees do their job in favour of the host is more than I accept, in any tournament, and so for yesterday as well. I also reject your accusation that the ref made "many decisions thatcould have go "both ways" to go for the germans. Being amazed by our team does not mean that I am blind to anything that is not pro the German team. Argentia is a lousy looser. If they were so much supeprior then I wonder why they did not manage to fight them germans down. The simple answer is: obviously the German team was strong enough not to allow that. Be a bit more cautiuos about calling "facts" and what is "clear" and "obvious".I assume if Italy eventually should happen to loose the next match, which I see as a 50:50 affair, it again will be the refs.Accusing someone withoiut clues, hints and evidence of having bribed referees and having bribed all FIFA and then claim with a big mouth that under normal conditions it is rightout impossible and unthinkable that one's own game could loose against this or that corrupt dwarf simply is one thing : arrogant to the max. If non-hooligan-fans of ARG attack guests in their country that are also non-hooligans, because the match found the "wrong" outcome, also is unacceptable. We do not talk about hooligans. And that a player from the bench who never had seen action in that match after the end jumps off, runs to a German and kick him down, and then kick him again even into the genital area, while others attack the German team manager who tried to separate both sides without kicking and beating himself, is an unexcusable loss of control of one's drunk-for-victory temper.Like Maradona was lethally offended when not being voted as best footballer of this or that, and Pele won - he stood up and left the room, in stead of doing what would have been the only appropriate way to do: shake hands and say Congratulations. Maradonna may have been a good football player (but decided one world cup final by unfair betraying and then claimed that to be an intention of God), but as a human character, he is a nil. So was the after-match-performance of several Argentinians on Friday.If football fanatism leads to such arrogance and unfairness and offending behavior, then I will always apploaude the other team, no matter which one it is.

[goldorak]

Skybird, you are completely blinded by your rooting of Germany.
Unfortunately for your team Italy will obliterate Germany in the semifinals (bissing the famous Italy-Germany 1970).
Prepare yourself for a great delusion.:arrgh!:

[Skybird]

No wonder you defend the Argentinians. I see the same arrogance at work, here, and in some of your other comments in other matches. Somehow I do not book them as jokes, you see.

Possible that Germany won't win, Italy has a strong defense. But the German team is not the German teams of the past, or the team from some months back, and Argentinia displayed more strength than Italy in it's matches. It will be an open exchange like so often between these teams at world cups, and a close call. Different to you or the Argentinians I will not hold FIFA responsible for Germany eventually loosing it, but the Italian strength or the German weakness.

And if it turns out to be the other way around, I'll happy to accept your apology.

[Marcantilan]

It becomes even worse. German TV news just has reported that peaceful German viewers in the Goethe-institute in Buenos Aires have been attacked after the match. Also the general mood in Argentinia is reported that the Germans have bribed the referee, that they put pressure in Fifa, and that in no way the German team would have been able to defeat their damn team without help from outside.

Stop reading The Enquirer

I work two blocks from the Goethe Institute and never happened there, neither was reported in the local news.

Also, the general mood in here is WE LOSE AGAINST A TREMENDOUS PLAYER AND OUR TEAM, AFTER THE MATCH, ACTED LIKE 8 YEAR OLD CHILDRENS.

Nobody (maybe a drunk journalist only) think about someone paid the referee.

As an argentinian, I only could have shame, for the national team behaviour, but for god´s sake, stop reading the yellow press.

[Skybird]

Sorry, but that was German ARD (first public major program here) in it's late night program, and RTL-2, a private minor program, referring to material they indicated as something like Argentine state television, if I remember correctly, and no, those video snippets did not look nice, nor were the comments given by interviewed people on the street too friendly. German embassy seems to have contacted Argentine police and courts, it was said on radio this morning. While I would not give much for RTL2, ARD is the premier channel here, and definetly not "yellow press".

Over here people do not make a big issue of Argentina's reactions, they are too enthusiastic to be sticking to that, but it was taken note of, and in the immediate moment, many were pissed. But I do not want to argue against all Argentinian people. However, it was not some yellow press stuff.

That now Frings is banned as the first of all participiants while not having started to become physical without being hit first (as is clearly to be seen on the same video that came out), and Schweinsteiger gotten attacked too, and Metzelder also being kicked who wanted to protect Bierhoff who tried to separate combatants - and also got attacked, and after Metzelder have fallen down he has been kicked again into a certain soft spot where men do not like it, is something that just made people's heads shaking over here.

While some Italians may think that a missing Frings will be a weakening of the team in the match versus the Italians, it is maybe more likely that it will be a boomerang and the team will fire back with even more - and now angered - determination. If I read Klinsmann's character right, he is not the kind of guys who accepts a blow he thinks to be unjustified withoutfiring back in his own way. And as a motivator, he is unbeaten, judging by the team he has built. In case of germany winning, it also means that Frings is guaranbteed to play in the finals, which would not have been sure if he played in the semifinals (and would have gotten his second yellow card).

Sorry if you thought I was attacking all of Argentina. Beyond a certain anger of the moment, it was not meant that way. that I do not like neither your team nor Mardonna, neither these events nor some public reactions that were reported and interviewed, I do not mean to generalize when looking at Argentina and it's people, I know too little of that place, almost nothing. ;) :)

[sergbuto]

Somehow missed the thread.

It becomes even worse. German TV news just has reported that peaceful German viewers in the Goethe-institute in Buenos Aires have been attacked after the match. Also the general mood in Argentinia is reported that the Germans have bribed the referee, that they put pressure in Fifa, and that in no way the German team would have been able to defeat their damn team without help from outside. :nope: But we did, and Argentina is out and I say with that bad attitude of theirs they already survived too long in that tournament.

Surely, Germany won with the help of referee who did not give a penalty kick.

As to incident after the match, it is another matter and surely can't be approved.