Who wants info on N. Korea

[LoBlo]

Just some FYI for anyone that's interested in learning more about the history of N. Korea and the behaviors of their current leadership.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kim/view/

A great report is available on Frontline (an not-for-profit award-winning news program that is known for detail, historical perpective, and comprehensive investigations). If you have about an hour of boredom to kill its an interesting view IMHO.

Enjoy. Its also a demonstration of how naive and poorly thought out the Bush's administrations handling of the situation has been, when the Clinton administration (on its way out) had made such great strides in a mutually beneficial agreement. :stare: :doh: :damn:

[Ducimus]

I think if we contain north korea, and wait long enough, it will collapse on itself. No continuation of the war (it technically never ended), will be neccssary.

Then again, thats probably why their lashing out. the DPRK has mastered the art of brinksmanship. They've rattled sabers for years, and they'll continue to do so.

Ive been to the ROK twice. Korea is in an intresting situation. Both Koreas want a united country. The problem is, both want it THEIR way, and, both have something the other needs.

North Korea (DPRK) from my knowledge has alot of land and probably raw resources that South korea needs.

South Korea (ROK) has lot of industry, and has been (to quote some friends of mine) trying to become a "first world nation, in one generation". The south is crammed. They've been building up like gangbusters.


Its an intresting situation. Some claim we (the US) are their to keep the north from invading the south. Others claim the exact oppsoite, that we're they're to keep the south rolling into the north. Korea is a nation that has some 50 years to prepair for a resumption of the conflict which technically never ended. Ive been as far north as the DMZ and as far south as Pusan. Its an intresting country. Dotted with emergency bunkers, concentina wire, and expressways that double as emergency runways for aircraft. Korea has 3 expressways, all of which run north to south.

[LoBlo]

In the program above they mentioned the casualties of the first Korean war toped 1million people on both sides (35000 of those American). It also estimates that a current conflict, in which one side would actually win over the other, would incur an estimated 100,000+ American casuaties... even worst than the 60,000+ casualties of Vietnam, and those estimates are probably conservative.

N. Korea knows that its economy is in poverty and its people are peasants... it also knows that this represents an eventual powder keg in which it will inevitably face insurrection and revolution from its own citizens, or interference from outside to the point its regime topples. The development of nukes is a direct result of the governments need to ensure it can maintain power as long as possible.

The best possilbe resolution for N. Korea would be the modernization of its economy and infrastructure as exemplified by the currently exploding Chinese economy. But, as shown in the article above, despite the fact that the Clinton administration were making progress toward the beginning of that goal (at least making it a possilbly foreseaable goal) as soon as the Bush administration took control the headway made was lost and the situation on the pennisula is at a low point it had not been at in decades... bah.

The Bush administration refused to even open up diplomatic talks with N.Korea and forbid any of its statemen from doing so... and even as a Texan that voted for Bush, I myself can see that this is just plain idiocy...

It will be interesting to see how future US administrations develop a relationship with N. Korea; whether they will reinitiate the previous policies of the former Clinton administration, continue with the current "none relationship" of the Bush administration, or adopt some new and unique stance. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Ducimus]

Frankly i think we'd be better off completely withdrew from the penninsual, and let the Koreans solve their own problems. The cold wars over, theres absolutley no reason for us to be there anymore.

They can blow each other into little bits for all i care. It's their civil war, not ours. The marjoity of their populace doesnt want us there anyway.

[Ishmael]

Here's my idea to solve the North Korean crisis. Since North Korea is the world's only communist monarchy, Kim Jong Il inheriting the throne from his father, Kim Il Sung, the solution is obvious. Go out and dig up the bodies of all the old communists, Marx, Engels, Lenin,Trotsky,Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, all of them. Then you could ship the bodies to North Korea where they would be hooked up to generators. That way they could power the entire country while these guys were spinning in their graves. So all hail King Kim II. We could make up a fancy tin crown with little red stars and hammers and sickles for decorations.

[tycho102]

Frankly i think we'd be better off completely withdrew from the penninsual, and let the Koreans solve their own problems...The marjoity of their populace doesnt want us there anyway.

I agree, 100%, except for the spelling. Get every last service member out of South Korea. And while we're doing that, get them all out of Japan, as well. They don't want us there, I don't want us there.

We'll support South Korea as much as they have supported us. Trade agreements, all around.

[The Avon Lady]

when the Clinton administration (on its way out) had made such great strides in a mutually beneficial agreement.
Someone swallows PBS's usual slanted distortions of history hook, line and sinker.

For a few historical reminders on how Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are much to blame for NK's nuclear club status today and how their foolish agreements with NK lead to the quagmire we're icurrent situation, read Victor Davis Hanson's article, A Funny Morality (http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson102502.asp), dated October 25, 2002.

[STEED]

I think if we contain north korea, and wait long enough, it will collapse on itself.

There has been some forecast on that one, North Korea has got no more than another 20 years before the whole system collapse's on it's self. But of couse as we all know these boffins don't always get it right.

[Ducimus]

Frankly i think we'd be better off completely withdrew from the penninsual, and let the Koreans solve their own problems...The marjoity of their populace doesnt want us there anyway.

I agree, 100%, except for the spelling. Get every last service member out of South Korea. And while we're doing that, get them all out of Japan, as well. They don't want us there, I don't want us there.

We'll support South Korea as much as they have supported us. Trade agreements, all around.

I'd take it a step further, Close down all the bases in Korea, Japan, AND Germany, bring all those units back to the United states and reopen those bases here. Military bases are GREAT for local economies. I see no reason why we should continue to indirectly support other nations in this manner.

[Bort]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoBlo
when the Clinton administration (on its way out) had made such great strides in a mutually beneficial agreement.

Someone swallows PBS's usual slanted distortions of history hook, line and sinker.

For a few historical reminders on how Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are much to blame for NK's nuclear club status today and how their foolish agreements with NK lead to the quagmire we're icurrent situation, read Victor Davis Hanson's article, A Funny Morality (http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson102502.asp), dated October 25, 2002.

Just because the report wasn't done by Fox News doesn't make it inaccurate. Frontline always interviews a diverse selection of people for their broadcasts, and presents plenty of supporting literature on their site. As far as Clinton and Carter go, at least they had a cohesive and somewhat effective plan to deal with N. Korea and avoid a disastrous conflict, which is more than you can say for the Bush administration, which, as with many foreign policy issues, has made only clumsy and useless attempts to deal with the problem.

[Bort]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tycho102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducimus
Frankly i think we'd be better off completely withdrew from the penninsual, and let the Koreans solve their own problems...The marjoity of their populace doesnt want us there anyway.



I agree, 100%, except for the spelling. Get every last service member out of South Korea. And while we're doing that, get them all out of Japan, as well. They don't want us there, I don't want us there.

We'll support South Korea as much as they have supported us. Trade agreements, all around.


I'd take it a step further, Close down all the bases in Korea, Japan, AND Germany, bring all those units back to the United states and reopen those bases here. Military bases are GREAT for local economies. I see no reason why we should continue to indirectly support other nations in this manner.

BAD IDEA. Let me tell you why; by having important military assets forward deployed to these locations, reaction time in the event of a conflict in East Asia is greatly decreased. With the rising power of the PRC as well as the ongoing N. Korean problems, now more than ever is when the United States needs to show it's commitment and interest in the maintenance of peace and stability in the region. Isolationism is a silly and disproven course of action, you need look no further than WWII to realize that.

[Sea Demon]

* Bort']
As far as Clinton and Carter go, at least they had a cohesive and somewhat effective plan to deal with N. Korea and avoid a disastrous conflict, which is more than you can say for the Bush administration, which, as with many foreign policy issues, has made only clumsy and useless attempts to deal with the problem.

You've got to be kidding me. :o Their actions probably increased the likelihood for future violence. The stupidity of the Clinton administration and Carter directly gave the North Koreans access to nuclear technology. Carter went over there and agreed to share light-water reactor technology if the dictator Kim didn't pursue nuclear weapons. What a fool Carter is. And how derelict in his duties to national security Clinton was. Not just with NK, but China as well. Carter called it "friendship building". In reality he was snookered. The bad thing about that is it puts my family at risk. And it has also led to more instability in East Asia. Also, North Korea's human rights are downright barbaric. Clinton and Carter only strenghtened the hold that the Kim regime has on that country and it's people.

That little Moonbat Kim Jong-Il needs to be shoved around. And Bush, despite his faults, is willing to do it. I'm just amazed there are people out there that actually think that increasing the military capabilities of our potential enemies is the way to peace. All I got to say is thank God the Democrats are out of power. May they never get that power back again.

[The Avon Lady]

* Bort'] Quote:
Originally Posted by LoBlo
when the Clinton administration (on its way out) had made such great strides in a mutually beneficial agreement.

Someone swallows PBS's usual slanted distortions of history hook, line and sinker.

For a few historical reminders on how Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are much to blame for NK's nuclear club status today and how their foolish agreements with NK lead to the quagmire we're icurrent situation, read Victor Davis Hanson's article, A Funny Morality (http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson102502.asp), dated October 25, 2002.
Just because the report wasn't done by Fox News doesn't make it inaccurate.
I barely watch Fox. I don't find them much worse than the rest, however.
Frontline always interviews a diverse selection of people for their broadcasts, and presents plenty of supporting literature on their site. As far as Clinton and Carter go, at least they had a cohesive and somewhat effective plan to deal with N. Korea and avoid a disastrous conflict, which is more than you can say for the Bush administration, which, as with many foreign policy issues, has made only clumsy and useless attempts to deal with the problem.
On the contrary. The whole quagmire is the result of previous administrations' pandering to the whims and desires of NK's brutal regime. You get what you pay for.

Try reading the article.

[scandium]

Just some FYI for anyone that's interested in learning more about the history of N. Korea and the behaviors of their current leadership.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kim/view/

A great report is available on Frontline (an not-for-profit award-winning news program that is known for detail, historical perpective, and comprehensive investigations). If you have about an hour of boredom to kill its an interesting view IMHO.

Enjoy. Its also a demonstration of how naive and poorly thought out the Bush's administrations handling of the situation has been, when the Clinton administration (on its way out) had made such great strides in a mutually beneficial agreement. :stare: :doh: :damn:

Another outstanding Frontline documentary :up:. As for Bush's (mis)handling of the crisis, well what more to expect from Mr. 'Axis of Evil' :down:

[The Avon Lady]

Another outstanding Frontline documentary :up:. As for Bush's (mis)handling of the crisis, well what more to expect from Mr. 'Axis of Evil' :down:
"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

[Ducimus]

* Bort']

BAD IDEA. Let me tell you why; by having important military assets forward deployed to these locations, reaction time in the event of a conflict in East Asia is greatly decreased.


My intent wasnt to advertise isolationism, althoguh id love it if we stopped pouring money into **** pot countries any of us could give less then a **** about. But I still say the bases in germany are no longer needed. Reason is, we've poured enough concrete and built up airbases enough to have already surpassed all the construction material used in vietnam.

We're there to stay, i dont care what the poltiicans say. We wont leave there for many many many years to come, if ever. Just like Korea. Iraq will be is the next overseas remote short tour for the next few decades once things settle down there a little, im 100% positive of this.