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PM to get two 'Blair Force Ones'
Prime Minister Tony Blair and the Queen are to get two dedicated planes to use on official trips, the BBC has learned.
One is likely to be a long-haul plane with 70 seats, while a 15-seater jet will be ordered for shorter flights, BBC correspondent James Hardy says.
Since 1944 US presidents have had their own plane for presidential travel.
Although the Queen will have first call on the aircraft, they are already being dubbed "Blair Force Ones". The Lib Dems and Tories have criticised the plan.
The decision to order the two aircraft follows a study into the costs of ministerial travel by businessman and government spending adviser Sir Peter Gershon.
The planes will not be bought outright, but taken on a long lease and are unlikely to come into service until late 2007 at the earliest - by which time some think Mr Blair may have stepped down as PM.
VIP area
They are expected to cost around £12.3m a year - about £2.7m more than the current arrangement.
The flights are likely to be paid for by those who use them, like Number 10, the Ministry of Defence and the Royal Family - a similar arrangement to chartering and not just fuel and staffing costs.
It sends totally the wrong message for ministers to be spending millions of pounds of taxpayers' money on two new, official planes at a time when jobs are being cut in the NHS
Chris Grayling
Shadow transport secretary
The long-haul plane, which is likely to be wide-bodied, with a separate VIP area and kitted out for modern communications, will be used in place of the British Airways 777 currently chartered by Downing Street.
Shadow transport secretary Chris Grayling told BBC News 24 it was "the wrong moment to be splashing out taxpayers' money on funding the government to travel in style".
He added that if he became transport secretary, he would use Eurostar to get to places like Brussels, rather than take a plane.
Anger over US planes
Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell questioned whether the aircraft represented "good value for the British taxpayer".
"We are entitled to ask what the prime minister intends to do to reduce the environmental impact of his travel," he said.
But Labour replied that all Mr Blair's flights had been "carbon neutral" since April 2005.
There was also criticism over speculation that at least one of the aircraft is likely to be from US-built Boeing.
A spokesman for the Transport and General Workers Union, said it was "extraordinary that the prime minister should not be flying in a British-built plane".
"This sends a further negative message about the future of manufacturing."
Call sign
A spokesman for the GMB union added: "GMB members who work in the aircraft industry will be dismayed that the government is preferring to buy an American aircraft rather than one built by a UK manufacturer."
US presidents have had their own planes since 1944 when Franklin Roosevelt started using the "Sacred Cow".
In 1962, the first jet aircraft, a Boeing 707, was purchased for use and President Bush now uses two specifically-configured Boeing 747-200B planes.
They are commonly known as "Air Force One" because that is the call sign used when he is on board either plane, or any other Air Force aircraft.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5098126.stm
Published: 2006/06/20 15:06:00 GMT
© BBC MMVI
As I recall Mr Blair is hot on the green issue, so the next time he tells me to get more green I shall tell him to stick it in one of his planes. :smug:
What does the prime minister currently fly on?
Easyjet I think - not!
I believe he uses chartered flights, or block books smaller planes.
The Noob
06-21-06, 03:20 AM
What does the prime minister currently fly on?
Drugs.:rotfl::p
What does the prime minister currently fly on?
Drugs.:rotfl::p
That would explain alot of things. :lol:
yikes all this just to avoid planting a few hundred thousand trees..
Kurushio
06-21-06, 05:56 AM
Blair doesn't need to get re-elected...so why should he care. Just goes to show though, the Blairs (his wife included) are not as nice as they seemed. Anyone remember the appartment scandal?
Yeah...it's disgusting considering we have to think more about the environment and they don't. Sort of like Stalin Russia: do as I say not as I do. But it's always been like that...and the next Tory government wont be any different.
The Noob
06-21-06, 07:45 AM
This was the first time i made one of my "Instant Jokes" (I always find a way to make a joke lol) and somebody Loughts...:D
Cool!:rock:
Back to topic.
TteFAboB
06-21-06, 10:55 AM
Blair can have one of these:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6884/vimy016hb.jpg
Sorry, it's far from 70 seats, I suppose the maids, consorts, buffoons, clowns, reporters and staff will have to take a walk.
That's interesting. I always thought that the UK government officials were always using dedicated airplanes already. There's some advantages to having a special fleet. The planes of the AirForce One fleet have been extensively modified beyond belief with electronics, communications, countermeasures, and command networks... you know, just in case parliament gets terrorist bombed and the queen has to be whisk into safety, a moving airplane/ command nexus is a safe place to be.
Thats what I was thinking too....im sure this is a security move. Air Force One solves so many issues of Security for the Prez...
The Noob
06-21-06, 12:55 PM
Blair can have one of these:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6884/vimy016hb.jpg
Sorry, it's far from 70 seats, I suppose the maids, consorts, buffoons, clowns, reporters and staff will have to take a walk.
Thats a WW1 Bomber right?
I Recall it from Red Baron....i think...:doh:
That appears to be a Vickers Vimy...Yes, WWI era heavy bomber.
That's interesting. I always thought that the UK government officials were always using dedicated airplanes already. There's some advantages to having a special fleet. The planes of the AirForce One fleet have been extensively modified beyond belief with electronics, communications, countermeasures, and command networks... you know, just in case parliament gets terrorist bombed and the queen has to be whisk into safety, a moving airplane/ command nexus is a safe place to be.
The Royal Family and important Ministers already have dedicated RAF transport, provided by 32 (The Royal) Squadron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._32_%28The_Royal%29_Squadron_RAF) with BAe 125's and 146's for fixed wing transport and Agusta A109's for helo services. This unit is unable to transport VIP's very far though, as the BAe 146 is a small commuter plane and the BAe 125 is a small-midsize bizjet without a long range capability, not to mention that none of these aircraft can carry the circus train of press, security and aides that goes along with a major overseas trip. For this, you need a big plane with long range like Air Force 1. Right now the Queen and PM use chartered BA 777's, which is probably not an ideal solution as those aircraft lack the communications and countermeasures that AF1 has. Also, they probably have to be booked way ahead of time with BA, making an emergency trip out of the question. All this being considered, I don't think it's such a bad idea for the RAF to aquire a pair of 777's and perhaps a few Gulfstream V's.
Kurushio
06-22-06, 05:54 AM
Ridiculous. So in case of terrorist attack on the houses of parliament Tony Blair and the Queen will board their Special Warfare plane and circle around the Shetland Islands? :lol: We are not the US you know? We're a tiny island. :roll: In case of attack they are probably safer on the ground and yes, that's why we have bunkers here.
* Bort']All this being considered, I don't think it's such a bad idea for the RAF to aquire a pair of 777's and perhaps a few Gulfstream V's.
I suspect for political reasons, the plane will be an Airbus.
Airforce One is the ultimate symbal of the American place in the world... i'm not sure the British Government needs to emulate it. In the past, the British equivilant was the Royal Yacht which was much more suited to the British style of diplomacy.
Going for an aircraft demonstrates the fact that the current British Prime Minister believes he is a President rather then a Premier. I'm not sure thats something that should be encouraged.
Kurushio
06-22-06, 09:31 PM
* Bort']All this being considered, I don't think it's such a bad idea for the RAF to aquire a pair of 777's and perhaps a few Gulfstream V's.
I suspect for political reasons, the plane will be an Airbus.
Airforce One is the ultimate symbal of the American place in the world... i'm not sure the British Government needs to emulate it. In the past, the British equivilant was the Royal Yacht which was much more suited to the British style of diplomacy.
Going for an aircraft demonstrates the fact that the current British Prime Minister believes he is a President rather then a Premier. I'm not sure thats something that should be encouraged.
What are you talking about? He'll be gone in a few months time...I don't think he's planning for his political future to be honest. No, it must be for security reasons. Maybe the new planes will have anti AA systems...that's the only reason I can think off. Remember there is a shoulder launched SAM threat over London airports.
Anyway...does everyone here realise the US pres doesn't board Airforce 1 in times of crisis/war? He boards his other plane called KNEECAP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post). But anyway...
Kurushio
06-22-06, 09:36 PM
Airfoce 1 - peace:
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1633/746pxairforceoneovermtrushmore.jpg
KNEECAP - war:
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7673/e4b6qd.jpg
Anyway...does everyone here realise the US pres doesn't board Airforce 1 in times of crisis/war? He boards his other plane called KNEECAP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post). But anyway...
At which point it then becomes designated as "Airforce One". Y'see the designation refers to his presence on the aircraft, not the aircraft itself. When he's not on board the fleet of aircraft that normally transport him goes back to their regular designations.
Kurushio
06-23-06, 07:12 AM
Anyway...does everyone here realise the US pres doesn't board Airforce 1 in times of crisis/war? He boards his other plane called KNEECAP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post). But anyway...
At which point it then becomes designated as "Airforce One". Y'see the designation refers to his presence on the aircraft, not the aircraft itself. When he's not on board the fleet of aircraft that normally transport him goes back to their regular designations.
Nope...KNEECAP is different from Airforce 1. Don't you think it would cause confusion if it was called KNEECAP whilst he was boarding the plane, then da-da "..it's now called Airforce 1 because he is inside the plane". :lol:
Mate, you're thinking about Hollywood.
Oh and...no...Airforce 1 is called that whether the pres is on it or not. ;)
The Avon Lady
06-23-06, 07:17 AM
Are you calling Harrison Ford a liar?!?!?!:shifty:
:p
UPDATE: For what it's worth, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One_%28film%29) states that it's true that whatever plane the president is on gets designated as AF1.
See? Harrison didn't lie! :nope:
Gizzmoe
06-23-06, 08:37 AM
And if you don´t believe Wikipedia, here´s what whitehouse.gov writes:
"The current presidential fleet consists of two specifically-configured Boeing 747-200B series aircraft - tail numbers 28000 and 29000 - with Air Force designation VC-25A. When the President is aboard either craft, or any other Air Force aircraft, the radio call sign is "Air Force One."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/whmo/af1.html
The Avon Lady
06-23-06, 08:52 AM
And if you don´t believe Wikipedia, here´s what whitehouse.gov writes:
The White House said that?!
Must be a lie!
:rotfl:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7298/clipimage0026nd.jpg
Nope...KNEECAP is different from Airforce 1. Don't you think it would cause confusion if it was called KNEECAP whilst he was boarding the plane, then da-da "..it's now called Airforce 1 because he is inside the plane". :lol:
Mate, you're thinking about Hollywood.
Oh and...no...Airforce 1 is called that whether the pres is on it or not. ;)
So, as AL and Gizzmoe point out you are incorrect.
BTW I didn't get my info from Wikpedia or Hollywood movies. I know several former and currently serving Airforce and Navy people who were/are in a position to know definitely, as well as being a military vet myself (US Army).
BTW2, It's only Airforce One when the AC belongs to the Airforce. The Marine helos that transport the President are called "Marine One" when the President is aboard. If he flys in a Navy AC it becomes "Navy One". I've never heard of the President flying in an Army AC but i'd expect if he did they'd follow the same convention.
To get back on the subject I don't see why the Prime Minister of Great Britain should not have an aircraft reserved for his use.
Seems (to me) kind of shameful for a country to force their head of state to ride around in a rental. And you people wonder why nobody respects you... :yep:
Kurushio
06-23-06, 12:11 PM
Yes, ok, the public calls any plane currently occupied by the Pres (Cessna 172 included :roll:) Airforce 1 as soon as he sets foot in it.
But....2 questions.
If you were working for the Pres, would you change KNEECAP'S name and refer to it as Airforce 1 when he was in it and back to KNEECAP when he wasn't? Just to make your job more difficult? You know, you can imagine a conversation:
The scene is set where the President is flying on an Airforce Learjet:
CIA guy 1: Mr President, after we arrive you'll be transfered onto Airforce 1.
Pres: But I am on Airforce 1.
CIA guy 1: Not this Airforce 1, the real Airforce 1.
Pres: Ok, but can't we use KNEECAP? I think I left my favorite Bratz doll on there.
CIA guy 1: Yes OK, but once you're on it, it will be Airforce 1.
CIA guy 2: Which plane are we using?
CIA guy 1: Airforce 1.
CIA guy 2: But this is Airforce 1.
CIA guy 1: Not this Airforce 1, the real Airforce 1 AKA KNEECAP
CIA guy 2: So what about the REAL real Airforce 1?
CIA guy 1: Which one?
CIA guy 2: You know...the big one.
CIA guy 3: Did I hear mention airforce 1?
CIA guy 1: Yes, we are transferring onto it...
CIA guy 3: But we're already on it!
etc...
Now seriously guys...to Hollywood, public and Wikipedia*...any plane the Pres is on is theatrically called Airforce 1. When you have national security on the agenda, they don't pussy about and call kneecap....KNEECAP! GET IT?! :stare:
Second question (remember?):
What is Airforce 1 called when it's empty and the Pres is on another plane? :lol::roll:
Ah...poor little innocents. You'll learn...
I saw what I think was Air Force One once, flying over near Sizewell during Bushs trip to Europe back in, oh...must have been about 2002. There had to have been two AWACs, one Tristar (I think), another large aircraft which I think was AF1, hard to tell since they were flying a fair distance away (I was in Leiston at the time). There were about three/four fighters to each large aircraft, it was quite something to watch :up:
Anyway, back to BlairForceOne...well, I do think I've discovered a picture of a trial run carried out last year in the MoD archives:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9924/af1014zs.jpg
Gizzmoe
06-23-06, 12:25 PM
Second question (remember?):
What is Airforce 1 called when it's empty and the Pres is on another plane? :lol::roll:
The usual identifier for an Air Force aircraft is CALLSIGN #######,
where the # are the serial number of the aircraft.
The 89th MAW's usual callsign is "SAM" as in Special Air Mission,
so the callsign would be "SAM (whatever the serial is).
For example, when Nixon was flying back to California after announcing
his resignation, the callsign changed from "Air Force 1" to
"SAM 27000" somewhere over the Midwest, when the resignation took effect.
So the standard callsigns for the two 747´s is SAM 28000 and SAM 29000.
Kurushio
06-23-06, 12:29 PM
Yes, and I'm sure whoever invented calling the plane the President is flying on "Airforce 1" predicted he'd get his laughs in the future by the confusion it would cause on an internet forum.
Let's put it another way. If a guy had a gun to your head and asked you which plane the Pres was on, would you answer:
a) Airforce 1
b) The actual plane
grrrrrrrrr......:stare:
What I mean is...to the public, aviation enthusiasts and people to whomever it may NOT concern...go ahead...call any plane the pres is on Airforce 1. When national security is at stake and you're someone that matters...you wont pussyfoot about with this ridiculous protocol and just go ahead and refer to KNEECAP as KNEECAP whether the pres, Marylin Manson or Briana Banks (pornstar) is on board or not!!!!!!
Anyway, back to BlairForceOne...well, I do think I've discovered a picture of a trial run carried out last year in the MoD archives:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9924/af1014zs.jpg
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
There are a fleet of several planes all modified to carry the US president, all with specific and extensive modifications. Whichever one of the planes the President is currently on is AirForce One. All of the planes in the fleet have undergone complete customization, though some may have systems that the others do not. If the president were to use any other plane it would obtain the designation "airforce one" even if its not one of the usual fleet. However, it would be extremely rare for this to happen. At least one of the fleets planes stay within reach of the president at all times, following him to the nearest available airport and ready to lift off at any time.
For some interesting FYI, the same "call designations" apply for any craft that president is on. Whenever the president is on a USMarine helocopter the helo is called "Marine One". Whenever the president is on a navy ship (like an Aircraft Carrier) its called "Navy One"... whenever the president is one a Army Transport (though that's pretty rare and I can't remember a time when this was seen... at least publicly that is) its called Army One.
Yes, and I'm sure whoever invented calling the plane the President is flying on "Airforce 1" predicted he'd get his laughs in the future by the confusion it would cause on an internet forum.
Let's put it another way. If a guy had a gun to your head and asked you which plane the Pres was on, would you answer:
a) Airforce 1
b) The actual plane
grrrrrrrrr......:stare:
What I mean is...to the public, aviation enthusiasts and people to whomever it may NOT concern...go ahead...call any plane the pres is on Airforce 1. When national security is at stake and you're someone that matters...you wont pussyfoot about with this ridiculous protocol and just go ahead and refer to KNEECAP as KNEECAP whether the pres, Marylin Manson or Briana Banks (pornstar) is on board or not!!!!!!
You just aren't willing to admit you were wrong eh? That's ok i can respect that, however the public, aviation enthusiasts and unconcerned people can call it anything they want, including the "Presidential Pimp Mobile". That, however, does not make it accurate.
Looks like Tony Blair has got something even faster, due to the fact our Trident Missiles are to be scarped for the latest new one's.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1439/clipimage0025no.jpg
Looks like Tony Blair has got something even faster, due to the fact our Trident Missiles are to be scarped for the latest new one's.
That's interesting... what missile is going to replace the Trident?
NO information yet here's the news item.
Brown backs Trident replacement
Trident will be decommissioned by about 2024
Gordon Brown has signalled that he wants to keep and renew Britain's independent nuclear deterrent.
The Trident missile system and the Vanguard submarines which carry them need replacing by 2024 and a decision is set to be taken in the next year.
Estimates of the cost vary from £10bn to £25bn, depending on what type of new missiles or submarines are chosen.
Mr Brown's intervention has enraged critics, who say Trident has no use now the Soviet Cold War threat is over.
Labour had a manifesto commitment to retain an independent nuclear deterrent but it only applies until the next general election.
Mr Brown, seen as the most likely next prime minister, has sparked new debate on the issue by highlighting his personal commitment to replace Trident.
In his Mansion House speech in the City of London, He said Britain would show a "national purpose" in protecting its security.
"Strong in defence in fighting terrorism, upholding NATO, supporting our armed forces at home and abroad, and retaining our independent nuclear deterrent," he said.
"In an insecure would we must and we will always have the strength to take all necessary long term decisions to ensure both stability and security."
'No moral reason'
It is thought Mr Brown wants anti-nuclear campaigners to know he is just as committed to replacing Trident as Tony Blair.
BBC political editor Nick Robinson said Mr Brown's words would take the heat off the prime minister, who could have produced "uproar" if he had made the same announcement.
When we face no nuclear threat, to decide on a new Trident replacement is beginning a new nuclear arms race
Kate Hudson
Chairwoman, CND
The government's position is that decisions on updating or replacing Trident are likely to be needed during the current Parliament.
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "No decisions have been taken on the replacement of Trident, either in principle or detail."
But the decision is expected to be taken in months rather than years.
Anti-nuclear groups, Labour backbenchers and trade unionists voiced their alarm at Mr Brown's words.
Kate Hudson, chairwoman of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, said: "We were hoping that any potential future prime minister would stick by the commitments made last year by then Defence Secretary John Reid for a full public and parliamentary debate.
"Our feeling is statements like this from someone as significant as Gordon Brown pre-empts that debate."
Statesman's spin?
Ms Hudson said this was the moment to start multi-lateral disarmament talks.
"At this point, when we face no nuclear threat, to decide on a new Trident replacement is beginning a new nuclear arms race," she said.
Labour MP Ian Gibson, an opponent of Trident, said many young Labour backbenchers had been weaned on CND and had not lost those early political views.
"So it may not be as easy [to agree to replace Trident] as people might think because the chancellor says so," he told BBC News 24.
Another Labour backbencher, Gordon Prentice, asked: "How are we going to persuade other countries not to go for nuclear weapons when we are spending millions of pounds not disarming but upgrading our nuclear weapons?"
Keith Sonnet, deputy general secretary of Unison, the country's biggest trade union, also urged Mr Brown to think again.
'Smothering debate'
The Conservatives accused Mr Brown of "spin" designed to make him look statesmanlike when he was in fact just repeating Labour's 2005 manifesto.
Shadow defence secretary Liam Fox said: "The chancellor is reheating an old pledge to retain the current nuclear deterrent but he is not committing to replacing the independent nuclear deterrent when it reaches the end of its current life."
Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Nick Harvey said: "Gordon Brown's posturing on Trident is smothering the national debate that this government promised to the British people," he said.
Earlier, Tony Blair promised the "fullest possible debate" on Trident, but stopped short of promising a vote.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5103764.stm
Published: 2006/06/21 21:32:01 GMT
© BBC MMVI
Kurushio
06-23-06, 05:00 PM
Yes, and I'm sure whoever invented calling the plane the President is flying on "Airforce 1" predicted he'd get his laughs in the future by the confusion it would cause on an internet forum.
Let's put it another way. If a guy had a gun to your head and asked you which plane the Pres was on, would you answer:
a) Airforce 1
b) The actual plane
grrrrrrrrr......:stare:
What I mean is...to the public, aviation enthusiasts and people to whomever it may NOT concern...go ahead...call any plane the pres is on Airforce 1. When national security is at stake and you're someone that matters...you wont pussyfoot about with this ridiculous protocol and just go ahead and refer to KNEECAP as KNEECAP whether the pres, Marylin Manson or Briana Banks (pornstar) is on board or not!!!!!!
You just aren't willing to admit you were wrong eh? That's ok i can respect that, however the public, aviation enthusiasts and unconcerned people can call it anything they want, including the "Presidential Pimp Mobile". That, however, does not make it accurate.
I'm not wrong. And I'm not saying you lot are wrong either. All I'm saying is that the PROTOCOL of using Airforce 1 for the plane is on is not used by certain people i.e. the ones that count. Because that's all it is...protocol.
Now...in your job, do you follow protocol to the letter? I'm sure you don't. Nobody does. Thanks and goodnight. ;)
I'm not wrong. And I'm not saying you lot are wrong either. All I'm saying is that the PROTOCOL of using Airforce 1 for the plane is on is not used by certain people i.e. the ones that count. Because that's all it is...protocol.
Now...in your job, do you follow protocol to the letter? I'm sure you don't. Nobody does. Thanks and goodnight. ;)
Where's your source of information? Besides a hollywood movie...
I'm not wrong. And I'm not saying you lot are wrong either. All I'm saying is that the PROTOCOL of using Airforce 1 for the plane is on is not used by certain people i.e. the ones that count. Because that's all it is...protocol.
Well no, it's a call sign, which like any other call sign is used for identification purposes in radio communication. The US military feels the presence of the POTUS on board an aircraft, ANY aircraft, is worth using a special callsign. The second he steps off the aircraft that call sign changes to whatever it was before he got on.
Using that call sign as the name of a particular aircraft, without the President being on it, is just wrong, plain and simple, a fact which any real aviation enthusiast who knows his stuff will tell you.
Now...in your job, do you follow protocol to the letter? I'm sure you don't. Nobody does. Thanks and goodnight. ;)
Why yes, I do, :yep: as I was the one who wrote the protocols in the first place. I designed the course I teach from the ground up so why wouldn't I?
Winner match AF1 : August :up:
Kurushio
06-24-06, 07:56 AM
Ok, here's a little game for all of you. You have to find the missing President. He's lost in one of these planes. There are 3 planes to choose from:
Plane 1) Is a Cessna 172
Plane 2) Is his 747 he uses for official visits (AKA Airforce 1)
Plane 3) Is his 747 Emergency Command Post (AKA KNEECAP)
The only clue you have is...he's on Airforce 1.
...your job and national security depend on it. Have fun.
:cool:
Shoot all three down and search the wreckage! :up:
Shoot all three down and search the wreckage! :up:
AIM, WAIT FOR IT..........FIRE
Over to you Oberon get searching. :roll:
Kapitan_Phillips
06-24-06, 12:43 PM
And the country wonders where all the money goes. I really want to give him a good kicking now.
Ok, here's a little game for all of you. You have to find the missing President. He's lost in one of these planes. There are 3 planes to choose from:
Plane 1) Is a Cessna 172
Plane 2) Is his 747 he uses for official visits (AKA Airforce 1)
Plane 3) Is his 747 Emergency Command Post (AKA KNEECAP)
The only clue you have is...he's on Airforce 1.
...your job and national security depend on it. Have fun.
:cool:
This can't be explained any simpler than it already has been. There are no "Airforce 1s" unless a he is one the plane (if the president is not on it, then it would not be called his "AirForce Ones" just the presendential fleet). And if someone needed to talk to him, they would patch into the command communication network and say, I need to talk to the President... that's it. The plane that the president is on would then be connected to them and it won't be some sort of stupid guessing game, because the plane that the president is on would let the command network know already that "hey, the president's onboard". And the president doesn't just jump on random planes.
That's about as simple as it can be explained.
Shoot all three down and search the wreckage! :up:
AIM, WAIT FOR IT..........FIRE
Over to you Oberon get searching. :roll:
http://pics.hoobly.com/full/67b9a64ebffa28c029db70bda062982b.jpg
"Go on then boy! Find him! Find the prezzie!" :D
And the country wonders where all the money goes. I really want to give him a good kicking now.
Ol no you don't I'm first in line. :D
Kurushio
06-24-06, 05:20 PM
Ok, then. Let's put it another way. You're the Secretary of State and you need to know where the President is because of a developing crisis. You don't need to contact him, you just need to tell the Secretary of Defence, because he's on the phone asking you the whereabouts of the Pres.
You turn around and ask your personal assistant where the President is. She answers "Airforce 1". You tell the Secretary of Defence "Airforce 1".
The Secretery of Defence tells you to "eff off" in his mind.
Can I make it anymore obvious then this? THESE SILLY RULES AND PROTOCOL DON'T APPLY TO PEOPLE THAT COUNT!!! FOR EFFS SAKE! :doh:
Kurushio
06-24-06, 05:25 PM
Proof the Presidents official plane is called Airforce 1:
http://www.gifts.com/search/product/Estes-Air-Force-1-Electric-Radio-Control-Jumbo-Jet-Airliner?ideaID=6777&prodID=59864
pwned :hmm:
Ok, then. Let's put it another way. You're the Secretary of State and you need to know where the President is because of a developing crisis. You don't need to contact him, you just need to tell the Secretary of Defence, because he's on the phone asking you the whereabouts of the Pres.
You turn around and ask your personal assistant where the President is. She answers "Airforce 1". You tell the Secretary of Defence "Airforce 1".
The Secretery of Defence tells you to "eff off" in his mind.
Can I make it anymore obvious then this? THESE SILLY RULES AND PROTOCOL DON'T APPLY TO PEOPLE THAT COUNT!!! FOR EFFS SAKE! :doh:
Ok, then. Let's put it another way. You're the Secretary of State and you need to know where the President is because of a developing crisis. You don't need to contact him, you just need to tell the Secretary of Defence, because he's on the phone asking you the whereabouts of the Pres.
You turn around and ask your personal assistant where the President is. She answers "Airforce 1". You ask, where's Airforce 1. She states "Flying over NewMexico." "You tell the Secretary of Defence "He's in Airforce 1 over NewMexico".
Can I make it anymore obvious then this? THIS IS THE STUPIDIST TOPIC EVER! :doh:
Kurushio
06-24-06, 06:14 PM
THIS IS THE STUPIDIST TOPIC EVER! :doh:
Agree...:lol:
...you're the Secretary of Defense and you know the Pres is flying over New Mexico on Airforce 1. And you know Mexican insurgents armed with SAMs are operating in New Mexico. Then you wonder....is the Airfoce 1 a plane with anti-AA capability? If only I knew the ACTUAL PLANE the President was in... :88)
...you're the Secretary of Defense and you know the Pres is flying over New Mexico on Airforce 1. And you know Mexican insurgents armed with SAMs are operating in New Mexico. Then you wonder....is the Airfoce 1 a plane with anti-AA capability? If only I knew the ACTUAL PLANE the President was in... :88)
...and then you realize that... all of the planes of the presidential fleet have been given anti-aa capability... Duh!...which was the whole purpose of having a presendential fleet in the first place. And then you realize that your no longer going to participate in such a dumb discussion...
:down:
lb out
Kurushio
06-24-06, 06:34 PM
...and then you realize that... all of the planes of the presidential fleet have been given anti-aa capability... Duh!...which was the whole purpose of having a presendential fleet in the first place. And then you realize that your no longer going to participate in such a dumb discussion...
:down:
lb out
Oh...come back!!! ...dumb discussions are the funnest! :88)
....and then the Secretary of Defense realises that seeing the Pres could be flying in his Uncle Bob's crop-duster and it would still be called Airforce 1....
your turn!
Ok, here's a little game for all of you. You have to find the missing President. He's lost in one of these planes. There are 3 planes to choose from:
Plane 1) Is a Cessna 172
Plane 2) Is his 747 he uses for official visits (AKA Airforce 1)
Plane 3) Is his 747 Emergency Command Post (AKA KNEECAP)
The only clue you have is...he's on Airforce 1.
...your job and national security depend on it. Have fun.
:cool:
This is where your whole argument shows it's over simplified quality. That would NEVER, EVER be the only clue the SAR rescue team assigned to finding a missing president would be briefed on.
Don't you think the US military wouldn't know what type of plane the president is, or will be, flying in?
Can I make it anymore obvious then this? THESE SILLY RULES AND PROTOCOL DON'T APPLY TO PEOPLE THAT COUNT!!! FOR EFFS SAKE! :doh:
Who are these people you keep talking about? Obviously they're not aviation enthusiasts, nor anyone whose ever been in the military or in the government, nor those who would know the difference between a call sign and a specific plane, nor the many people who disagree with you here in a submarine forum, so perhaps you're talking about children or maybe the simple minded?
Well, children are often given over simplified or inaccurate versions of a lot of things. The birds and the bees and Santa Claus are but two examples of many.
"What's the Presidents big blue plane called Daddy?"
"That's Airforce One Honey"
"That's a pretty plane Daddy"
"It sure is Pumpkin."
When she's old enough, and doesn't turn out to be simple minded, she'll eventuually learn all about Presidential air fleets and radio call sign protocals if she has an interest in such things. If she doesn't there's no real harm in her being inaccurate, but inaccurate she'll still be and if she tries to argue it in a military forum she's gonna set straight.
Kurushio
06-24-06, 08:36 PM
I think it's the reverse. Following illogical and confusing protocol is childish. For example...
Your job is to find out where the Pres is. So you ask someone who knows. And the person answers you "Airforce 1". Now, you have no idea what the actual plane the Pres is on, because by going with the illogical protocol (only for public and Hollywood use) of calling every plane the Pres is on "Airforce 1", you can never be sure WHICH plane he is on unless you have a follow up question i.e. "Yes, but which plane is Airforce 1 today?".
Which in the land of elves and fairys is fine. In the real world, where people hate making their job harder, is too important to make any mistakes (i.e. national security depends on it), you wont leave anything to chance, will not give any cause for confusion and will keep things simple and to the point:
Question: "Where is the President?"
Answer: "He's on KNEECAP." (because the President is on KNEECAP it does become "Airforce 1" according to protocol. This is duly noted, but not said. No discrepencies...no chance of confusion. End of story.
Thanks and goodnight.
p.s. Ask the guy with the football. ;)
I think it's the reverse. Following illogical and confusing protocol is childish. For example...
Your job is to find out where the Pres is. So you ask someone who knows. And the person answers you "Airforce 1". Now, you have no idea what the actual plane the Pres is on, because by going with the illogical protocol (only for public and Hollywood use) of calling every plane the Pres is on "Airforce 1", you can never be sure WHICH plane he is on unless you have a follow up question i.e. "Yes, but which plane is Airforce 1 today?".
Which in the land of elves and fairys is fine. In the real world, where people hate making their job harder, is too important to make any mistakes (i.e. national security depends on it), you wont leave anything to chance, will not give any cause for confusion and will keep things simple and to the point:
Question: "Where is the President?"
Answer: "He's on KNEECAP." (because the President is on KNEECAP it does become "Airforce 1" according to protocol. This is duly noted, but not said. No discrepencies...no chance of confusion. End of story.
Thanks and goodnight.
p.s. Ask the guy with the football. ;)
Ok so you prove our point then. There IS no single aircraft named Air Force One. It's at very least either Boeing 747 number 28000 or Boeing 747 number 29000, take your pick, but if you think for one second that anyone who needs to know is ever unsure for a second which of the many aircraft the president flys in is currently Airforce One then you have absolutely no clue of you're talking about and should quit embarrassing yourself on this subject.
Kapitan_Phillips
06-25-06, 04:35 AM
I reckon he has some importance issues. He cant be Airforce 2 or Airforce 15 no, he's gotta be Airforce 1. I bet the air force is muttering to itself how they cant be number one. I know which I'd choose in a war situation.
You turn around and ask your personal assistant where the President is. She answers "Airforce 1". You ask, where's Airforce 1. She states "Flying over NewMexico." "You tell the Secretary of Defence "He's in Airforce 1 over NewMexico".
Look! There he goes!!
http://www.loti.com/articles/ufo.jpg
I reckon he has some importance issues. He cant be Airforce 2 or Airforce 15 no, he's gotta be Airforce 1. I bet the air force is muttering to itself how they cant be number one. I know which I'd choose in a war situation.
It's only Air Force One because it's an Air Force plane. Therefore the Air Force IS Airforce One. Besides, the President didn't make up the call sign, the Air Force did. I think the last President that named his own plane was Harry Truman and even then I wouldn't be suprised if the Air Force used a special call sign different than "Independance" (what Harrys personal AC was named")
Oh and regarding which plane a President would choose, well, he doesn't make that decision. Not that his orders would be ignored, but the US Treasury department controls and manages the Presidents movements from the second he leaves the private areas of the White House until he returns to them.
They, working with the rest of his huge staff, handle all the travel arrangements. He just says, "I want to go there, at this time" and they're the ones who get him to the Aircraft they have chosen for the purpose after the Secret Service has cleared the route and destination. He probably doesn't even know what plane he'll be flying until he boards it.
Kurushio
06-25-06, 02:36 PM
August, stop pretending you're somebody in the Pentagon. Next you'll claim you're going to dinner with the Pres. :roll: Your view on this subject has as much weight as any other bod on the internet. And about "embarassing myself". Please stop, this is the internet, not Congress. A discussion on a GAME forum is hardly important stuff...if the Pentagon actually read all this stuff, they'd be laughing in their cornflakes. So give it a rest will you? :shifty:
By the way...this is one of your quotes:
There IS no single aircraft named Air Force One
and then a few minutes later you say:
It's only Air Force One because it's an Air Force plane.
So first of all you say there is no Airforce 1. Then you say Airforce 1 is an airforce plane. :lol: Contradict yourself much?
Thank God you don't advise the President.
"Mr. President, I advise against a nuclear strike on North Korea....so we must nuke them now!" :rotfl:
Make up your mind, mate. :up:
August, stop pretending you're somebody in the Pentagon. Next you'll claim you're going to dinner with the Pres. :roll: Your view on this subject has as much weight as any other bod on the internet. And about "embarassing myself". Please stop, this is the internet, not Congress. A discussion on a GAME forum is hardly important stuff...if the Pentagon actually read all this stuff, they'd be laughing in their cornflakes. So give it a rest will you? :shifty:
By the way...this is one of your quotes:
There IS no single aircraft named Air Force One
and then a few minutes later you say:
It's only Air Force One because it's an Air Force plane.
So first of all you say there is no Airforce 1. Then you say Airforce 1 is an airforce plane. :lol: Contradict yourself much?
I am not contradicting myself at all. Not my fault you can't understand what everybody is telling you.
If the President is aboard an Air Force aircraft it is called Air Force One. The second he steps off it it reverts back to whatever it was called before he got on. There is no aircraft that is named (as you define named) Airforce One.
As for thinking i am somebody at the Pentagon, i am not nor have i ever claimed such. It doesn't take somebody at the Pentagon to understand the simple concept of radio call signs versus aircraft names. It only takes someone with a relatively small amount of intelligence. Something you have demonstrated that you clearly do not possess.
Kurushio
06-25-06, 04:14 PM
I think the person with limited intelligence is you. You fail to see the blatantly obvious tongue-in-cheek mood of my posts. I posted a picture of a toy Airforce 1 to prove my point. If you can;t see the joke in that, then you are the one with the missing brain cells. Just look at my sig, isn't it apparent I hardly take anything serious? :roll:
You take things way too seriously and frankly turn fun discussions into complete yawn fests. I mean, we've got pictures of toys, a UFO in this thread, and then we have Mr. "I take this internet stuff seriously" here spoiling it all.
Bah...you're a bore and you're full of hot air to boot. :sunny:
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/205/internetsoldier0jy.jpg
I think the person with limited intelligence is you. You fail to see the blatantly obvious tongue-in-cheek mood of my posts. I posted a picture of a toy Airforce 1 to prove my point. If you can;t see the joke in that, then you are the one with the missing brain cells. Just look at my sig, isn't it apparent I hardly take anything serious? :roll:
You take things way too seriously and frankly turn fun discussions into complete yawn fests. I mean, we've got pictures of toys, a UFO in this thread, and then we have Mr. "I take this internet stuff seriously" here spoiling it all.
Bah...you're a bore and you're full of hot air to boot. :sunny:
Haven't you realized that it's fun to spoil your fun?
C'mon, say something else i can slam now...
TteFAboB
06-27-06, 04:51 AM
This is a good idea to sabotage an enemy Air Force.
Infiltrate an agent in the enemy Air Force and start a discussion about Presidential planes and their call signs.
Soon enough the entire staff will be all over it, from Cadets to Generals, working to release a final statement, and you can role them over while their busy discussing it.
Not sure what to make of that one.:hmm:
Kurushio
06-27-06, 06:52 AM
Question: How many toilets on Airforce 1?
Answer: There is no Airforce 1, that's why the President wears diapers.
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