Sinking vessels in rought weather.

[Snakeeyes]

I'm off the strait of Gibraltar (seen Das Boot... long version... NOT GOING IN THERE).

I have intercepted a westward moving convoy in the middle of some serious **** can weather. I have struck a C2 cargo ship and it's not moving anywhere. It's sitting barely deeper in the water and try for the life of me I CAN'T SINK IT!

I am using the RUB mod. I have been sitting off its port beam firing torpedos for 30 minutes all of them get deflected. What's my problem? I'm not supposed to use magneticly fused torps because I have heard that they are practically useless in rough weather. Even if I did, since the cargo ship is sitting SLIGHTLY deeper in the water there is no way to accurately find it's draft under the surface.

I need advice all you experts out there. I'm in a Type IX so no shortage of torps.

Help me out!!!

[Saintaw]

I personaly don't use RUB, but... what is the tgt's AOB? Looks like you're not in the right angle if they bounce off, or you set your torps a bit too low (The hull slope will deflect torps I guess). I usualy go for a 4-5 m depth torpedo, with an AOB closest to 90 as possible.

[Snakeeyes]

I personaly don't use RUB, but... what is the tgt's AOB? Looks like you're not in the right angle if they bounce off, or you set your torps a bit too low (The hull slope will deflect torps I guess). I usualy go for a 4-5 m depth torpedo, with an AOB closest to 90 as possible.

I'm at 90 degrees. 4-5 meter depth is the default setting is it not?

[Engel der Vernichtung]

I'm at 90 degrees. 4-5 meter depth is the default setting is it not?

Yes.. (wanted to just say "Yes.", but... apparently you can't have a response shorter than 5 characters.

[Snakeeyes]

Yes.. (wanted to just say "Yes.", but... apparently you can't have a response shorter than 5 characters.

Did that.

Engel.... What am I doing wrong here?????????

Is there a minimum distance to arm???

If I move too far away I lose sight of the vessel (storm is THAT bad).

[Floater]

I'm pretty sure you're too close. Back off to at least 300m distance, and your torpedoes will have time to arm before impact.

[Snakeeyes]

I'm pretty sure you're too close. Back off to at least 300m distance, and your torpedoes will have time to arm before impact.

Roger that Admiral. I'll back off. Visibility sucks!

[HW3]

Yes 300M is the arming distance for your torpedos.

[MENTAT]

Yeah i learned that the hard way also. 4 torps bounced of the hull simultaneously. But i wonder Is it the real value (300m) to arm a torpedo? in real life i think they are able to adjust it. Am i wrong?

[Alyebard]

Yeah i learned that the hard way also. 4 torps bounced of the hull simultaneously. But i wonder Is it the real value (300m) to arm a torpedo? in real life i think they are able to adjust it. Am i wrong?
IMHO you are wrong, the torps armet itself with the little propeler in the nose, they need to move a certain amount of turns to arm the torpedo, more or less 300 meters of travel.

an iteresting article, not really about this item, but
http://www.uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

[MENTAT]

Why 300m ? and why not 100m?

Whats the speciality of 300m to arm itself?

[Khayman]

Why 300m ? and why not 100m?

Whats the speciality of 300m to arm itself?

Presumably 100m was not enough to ensure the safety of the sub if the torpedo went off prematurely. 300m was probably a safer number given that it's pretty pointless for a sub to blow itself up.

[Sailor Steve]

I think the actual German arming distance was 250 meters, but I'm not totally sure. US arming distance was 500 yards, or about 450m.

[Khayman]

If memory serves then Michael Gannon quoted above 300m as the arming distance, then later related how Hardegen closed to less than that and got a hit. He didn't explain the discrepancy in his figures. I'd have to check the book again to be sure but I'm drunk and I couldn't read a 50 foot signpost if it smacked me in the face.

[Pants]

Pistol

The device to detonate the warhead was the pistol. There were two types, magnetic and contact pistol. Most torpedoes had both types and the captain could select a combination of magnetic, contact or both, prior to launching the weapon.
The magnetic pistol was triggered by the ship’s magnetic field and was designed to explode underneath the hull. Such explosions could break a ship’s hull in two, sinking it with just one torpedo. However, magnetic pistols were prone to premature detonations, with many exploding as the torpedo approached the wake of the ship. There were several reasons for this. First, the earth’s magnetic field changes with different latitudes, which were not properly offset by the device. Second, torpedoes tend to approach the target from astern, where the differential speed was reduced. The magnetic pistol could not detect a gradual change in magnetic flux, and failed to detonate. Finally, poor design led to high vibrations within the torpedo itself, which ultimately caused the relay to fail. Until the problem was solved, the less effective contact pistol was used.
Contact pistols comprised of four whiskers mounted at the tip of the torpedo nose. They were designed to react to a glancing blow which detonated the warhead. Many problems were also encountered as it was discovered due to poor design, only a narrow impact angle of approximately 20 degrees was required to consistently trigger the pistol. There was also a safety device which armed the pistol only after a minimum run of 250 meters. For this, a small propeller was fitted to the nose of the torpedo. As it moved forward, rushing water would spin the propeller until it wound shut, arming the pistol.

[Sailor Steve]

Pistol

The device to detonate the warhead was the pistol. There were two types, magnetic and contact pistol. Most torpedoes had both types and the captain could select a combination of magnetic, contact or both, prior to launching the weapon.
Is that true of the Germans? I've read that in US torpedoes one could not select type, and when they started to realize where the problem might lie torpedo chiefs actually had to physically remove and disable the magnetic pistol. Made for a lot of trouble.

[Pants]

Yup german torpedoes mate :up:

[MENTAT]

Presumably 100m was not enough to ensure the safety of the sub if the torpedo went off prematurely. 300m was probably a safer number given that it's pretty pointless for a sub to blow itself up.

to blow itself up? if it goes up at 100m or 150m, will it waste its host sub? I dont think so! especially if you think Depth charges are barely effective in 50m?

Anyway aint a destroyer at 100m not more deadly?? I believe a pursuing destroyer could be hit easily with a stern torpedo as it never goes farther than a 150m perimeter in a bomb run..

I still wonder why 300m? and not 200m or 100m? That should have a better explanation than damaging the sub :nope:

[MENTAT]

IMHO you are wrong, the torps armet itself with the little propeler in the nose, they need to move a certain amount of turns to arm the torpedo, more or less 300 meters of travel.


After a little search, I found out that newer torpedoes let their arming distances set.

[Sailor Steve]

How much newer? Later in the war? Modern?

Just curious.

[Hartmann]

It´s possible change or overide the safety measures for torpedos in Sh3 ??

Perhaps is for the circular pattern torpedoes or acoustics, but both are not modelled in silent hunter.

o´kane in the pacific was sunk by a faulty torpedo that made a turn against the sub

[MENTAT]

How much newer? Later in the war? Modern?

Just curious.

modern times, the tordpedoes used in NSubs. But it indicates it was possible so why didnt they do that back in the war?

[Sailor Steve]

Don't know. Maybe they didn't trust them. Way back in the 1890s the British didn't trust the newfangled armor piercing shells, so battleships still carried a complement of AP solid shot.

With a mechanical device such as a little propellor which winds down to a plunger and arms the thing, maybe that was as fine as they could get.

[mheil]

Sunk a ship in a bad storm where I had no visability 'cept real close (+/- 300m) I was able to sink him by following him submerged for a while and getting a real good plot of his position, speed and course. Then a sped ahead of him got into a good attack postion based on the above and made sure I would be about 600m from him. I waited submerged at 0 knots (sorry about that for you hardcore types out there) and used my hydrophone operator to tell me the bearing to target. Sighted this bearing in the periscope and BOOM! I fired 2 toprs and 1 hit. I thought the hydrophone operator's reported bearing would be a bit too astern as he is hearing noises from the prop, but based on where the torps went it looks like the bearing he game me was mid ships. It was a challenge doing it this way. The hard part was actually finding the ship in the first place!

[Khayman]

In "Operation Drumbeat" by Micheal Gannon he says that the fear of every torpedo mixer was that;

"Theoretically it was possible that when water rushed into the torpedo tubes before launching that the flow against the pistol propeller could activate the device that controlled the torpedo's safety run and cause the eel to arm itself while still in the tube. In which case maybe - boom!. No more drinks at the Cafe les Trois Soeurs"

So even if it was possible to set a shorter arming time, your crew would probably tell you where to go.

[robj250]

Sunk a ship in a bad storm where I had no visability 'cept real close (+/- 300m) I was able to sink him by following him submerged for a while and getting a real good plot of his position, speed and course. Then a sped ahead of him got into a good attack postion based on the above and made sure I would be about 600m from him. I waited submerged at 0 knots (sorry about that for you hardcore types out there) and used my hydrophone operator to tell me the bearing to target. Sighted this bearing in the periscope and BOOM! I fired 2 toprs and 1 hit. I thought the hydrophone operator's reported bearing would be a bit too astern as he is hearing noises from the prop, but based on where the torps went it looks like the bearing he game me was mid ships. It was a challenge doing it this way. The hard part was actually finding the ship in the first place!

A really rough sea make it almost impossible to sight in a target, you see it and get ready to fire then water flows over the periscope and it's gone, can't get a shot off. It's almost impossible to sink anything cause you keep loosing the target and as there are several targets that are the same, ie: T3 Tankers, you don't know which one you fired the torpedo at and got an impact and the ships are scattering, so you don't know which T3 it was that you hit so that you can hit it again. AAAAGH!!!

[mheil]

This was a single ship. It would've been a lot harder if it was a convoy for the exact reason you mentioned.

[NeonSamurai]

In game the arming distance is 250m, ive had them go off just short of 300m many times. 300m is idealy the closest you want to shoot from though to help avoid any distance mesurment errors.

Also in a heavy storm both your target's keel depth and your torpedo's depth keeping can be thrown off by several meters due to wave action (causing the torpedos to run too deep and/or the keel to raise up). Also dont forget the underside of a ship curves from vertical on the ship side to horizontal at the keel, hit that area and the torpedo will bounce almost every time.

[robj250]

This was a single ship. It would've been a lot harder if it was a convoy for the exact reason you mentioned.

It was a convoy of about 18 merchants and 5 warships. There were several T3 tankers.

[shegeek72]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but in reality could subs of that era fire torps in stormy seas? Seems the sub would be rocking too much at periscope depth.
--
http://users4.ev1.net/%7Etaragem/moon_sub3.jpg

[robj250]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but in reality could subs of that era fire torps in stormy seas? Seems the sub would be rocking too much at periscope depth.
--
http://users4.ev1.net/%7Etaragem/moon_sub3.jpg

Yes, the waters were absolutely too rough. My sub conning tower kept showing above the surface while I was at periscope depth, therefore the 6 warships kept bothering me, but I managed to send a salvo shot at a troop transport and sink it and then I had to leave the area at 70 metres.

[andy_311]

The closeist I ever hit and sunk a target was 287m.

[robj250]

The closeist I ever hit and sunk a target was 287m.

Andy, I thought the arming distance was 300m.

[MENTAT]

Does anyone knows what is the max. firing depth ? in game it seems that the PD is the limit. Does anyone knows why we cant fire them say, from 30 m?

[Kruger]

In reality...I think it was possible to fire torpedoes down to 20-25 metres.