Das Boot

[stefano]

Hi to all.
Finally i have seen the movie Das Boot, directors cut, 3 hours of fantastic movie.
Well, i have to say that is maybe one the best movie i have ever seen.
I have been for these three hours totally immerged in the movie, absolutly fantastc and very good made.
It is a pitty that this movie has not get one of the nominations for the Oscar price...

But anyway, a must to have and to see, and ..BTW.. seems to be in SH3 in some of the situations...

[Myxale]

Thats only the beginnig!
You will have plently "Das Boot" nerve-whackin moments in SH. Just keep playin!
:up:

[Ula Jolly]

Is this the ONLY movie properly depicting a war and a submarine crew of ANY time? :damn:

[Kurushio]

Probably never won an Oscar, because the dialogue translated in English was very badly done. Most things either don't make sense or are really cheesey...plus it sounds like they recorded the English version in my garage (on top of the old lawn mower). Now, if it could win the Best International Film award is another matter.

Though even here I am a bit dubious about the acting. Some of them are either completely insane or are overacting. The main characters for the most part are fine...but it's too cliche'd. You have the melancholic captain, the completely nuts warrant officer (or whatever he is), the really anal and wet behind the ears junior Officer, the old rusty hermit-like chief engineer, and the oh-I'm-so-excited-about-the-whole-thing journalist who then-realises-it's-hell-out-there.

Let's face it, the film's good but it's cheesey as hell...and the characters are cartoons.

[Kurushio]

Is this the ONLY movie properly depicting a war and a submarine crew of ANY time? :damn:

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).

[Khayman]

.

Let's face it, the film's good but it's cheesey as hell...and the characters are cartoons.

Well one of the crew of U-123 said of Buchheim; "He is truly crazy. He made only one trip in a U-Boat, as a photojournalist. How could he presume to write about U-Boatmen? Some things are factual but most are not"

He's wrong in that Buchheim was on one late war patrol IIRC, a patrol where it's suggested he got the negative tone for the movie and book. Anyways opinion among U-Boat commanders and men is divided. What really matters is that it's a great movie, despite it's faults.

[Kurushio]

Well one of the crew of U-123 said of Buchheim; "He is truly crazy. He made only one trip in a U-Boat, as a photojournalist. How could he presume to write about U-Boatmen? Some things are factual but most are not"

He's wrong in that Buchheim was on one late war patrol IIRC, a patrol where it's suggested he got the negative tone for the movie and book. Anyways opinion among U-Boat commanders and men is divided. What really matters is that it's a great movie, despite it's faults.

Also known as a "cult" movie. And it is...though Oscar winner? :-?

[Polak]

Hi to all.
Finally i have seen the movie Das Boot, directors cut, 3 hours of fantastic movie.
Well, i have to say that is maybe one the best movie i have ever seen.
I have been for these three hours totally immerged in the movie, absolutly fantastc and very good made.
It is a pitty that this movie has not get one of the nominations for the Oscar price...

But anyway, a must to have and to see, and ..BTW.. seems to be in SH3 in some of the situations...

No you must watch the uncut version of the movie that is 4 hours and 42 minutes long.

[Rose]

Ya, the uncut version really puts you inside that U-boat.

[Sailor Steve]

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).
I'm sorry, Crimson Tide may have used realistic sets, but the plot and the procedures were about as realistic as a twelve-year-old in a cardboard box. That movie was pure drek.

[Ula Jolly]

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).
Wait... please tell me that is irony on some divine level. Crimson Tide? The 1995 Crimson Tide? Ohio sub? I damned near puked from it! I don't mean to be trying for flaming or anything, but it goes "down there", with U-571 and the rest.
:down:

[Khayman]

I shall punish yee, landlubber! C'mere for spankings and popsicles!

Sorry for drifting OT, but that's a great sig!:D

[Egan]

Actually, my most Das Boot moment in subsims came not in Sh3 but in AOTD.

I got orders to patrol the western aproaches in my little 11A and off I went, hitting a convoy in bound for the Irish sea on my second day out. Well, those escorts saw me coming from a long ways out so down I went only to receive the mother of all depth chargings. I had dived so quick i hit the seabed at about 90 meters and lay there, badly damaged, as they hovered above throwing down more ash-cans. I tried to blow the air reserves in the ballast tanks but nothing happened - nothing at all. I got the men working on all the repairs they could do from inside the boat just to keep them busy until the air ran out and just waited until they escorts cleared off, which they did after about 40 minutes. I guess they thought i was a gonner. At this point so did I.

After 12 hours all the repairs we could do were done and, out of hope more than anything else, i tried venting the ballast tanks again. Now, I don't know whether I pressed the wrong button the first time or over the hours we spent below we fixed something vital, but this time there was a welcome hiss and - slowly - we began to rise.

I gave a little cheer but with both our periscope and hydrophones out we were rising blind with no idea what was up there. We broke the surface just after dawn on a beautiful and misty spring morning and after a few seconds giving thanks to whatever deity had got us through the night I gave orders to get us the hell outa dodge and limp home to base....

I know how the Old man felt after the misery of Gibralter. great film. The TV series is even better.

[Sailor Steve]

I died that way in AOD once: bottomed the boat until the destroyers went away. Didn't have much damage, but got stuck in the mud. Lay there trying to get loose until the air ran out, then RIP.

[Myxale]

Das Boot is the best. It's indeed a thing of taste and the view of things in general.
The movie and cast are top notch IMO.
It never appeared to me that they are too cartoonish or cheesy. Not any more than we all are in RL!

Thought i find Buchheim narrow minded in some ways...he's done more than two trips in a Sub. Two of them were with U-96. Her last two patrols!
Keep in mind that Subs were his passion. Most of his Sonedrführer-Berichterstatter reports were about sub's and crew. He loved the cult, like many other unknowing germans! Many looked up to them like like idols!
Imagine when he actually got the chance to do a real trip how this changed his mindset, when he wittnesed the madness first hand. He was guest at a college and told actually that he was -till the time he sailed out- unaware of the real deal.

You don't need to be a Kaleun to realize the madness of U-Boot war.

Imagine a Marine wannabe Fanboy gettin the ticket for War. Imagin his "yay i'm gonna be in a real war with the cool marines" fade quickly as the first one dies beside him.

Things have always been like this!

Sorry pointless long rant!

[Sailor Steve]

Not pointless at all.

It may have been Bucheim's first time on a submarine, but not his first time at see. From what I've read he served first in destroyers, and not as a correspondent, but an actual officer. His letters home so enthused the official censors that he was recommended for a writer's job, then transferred to a minesweeper and finally a u-boat.

In the book he portrays himself less the idealistic novice of the movie than as an experienced officer, standing watch for other crewmembers, and during his first depth charging comparing it to attacking a British submarine while on a destroyer. "Now I know what it feels like from their side".

Something I noticed in my latest watching of Das Boot: while we see him assisting the captain on the bridge, we never actually see the 1WO leading his watch. Going on watch, yes, but not actually on the bridge. Maybe 'Werner' only wanted to be up there when the 2WO was in charge. After all, in the book he says they had a saying: "Only when the second officer was on the bridge did the Old Man sleep easily".

[Rose]

Probably never won an Oscar, because the dialogue translated in English was very badly done. Most things either don't make sense or are really cheesey...plus it sounds like they recorded the English version in my garage (on top of the old lawn mower). Now, if it could win the Best International Film award is another matter.

Though even here I am a bit dubious about the acting. Some of them are either completely insane or are overacting. The main characters for the most part are fine...but it's too cliche'd. You have the melancholic captain, the completely nuts warrant officer (or whatever he is), the really anal and wet behind the ears junior Officer, the old rusty hermit-like chief engineer, and the oh-I'm-so-excited-about-the-whole-thing journalist who then-realises-it's-hell-out-there.

Let's face it, the film's good but it's cheesey as hell...and the characters are cartoons.

Might I remind you that it was Das Boot that created these clishe's. As for the dialog translation, just get the subtitled version!

[Enigma]

There seems to be a weird thing around here that says a sub movie has to be textbook realistic to be any good...I agree U-571 was a poor film, but I was mildly entertained. As for Crimson tide, I LOVE that film. Its entertaining, its well acted, and its a great story.

[Rose]

Das Boot leaves a lump in my throat every goddamned time I watch it. I just cannot fathom how anyone can say this classic -- this staple of the submarine genre -- is a bad movie...

But hey, as that "clishe'd" saying goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion ;).

[tbarak]

Well it didn't win any Oscars but it was nominated for six of them which is still pretty respectable. Films that win Oscars aren't necessarily the best, just that their producers lobbied more vigorously than the others. Besides what do a bunch of pierced-nosed, Starbucks-sipping, Liberal artsies know about u-boats?

[Umfuld]

It's a very good movie. I remember when it first came out on cable here in the States. It had a lot of buzz. And yeah, who cares if it won an Oscar? Is there anything more meaningless than an Oscar?

Besides an Emmy, that is.

I just saw if for the first time (maybe I saw some of it as a teen, don't remember) a few months ago. The 5 hours version was on one of the Encore channels.
I played SHIII shortly after, and concluded that either: A) SH3 simply copied the feel of the movie almost 100%, or B) they are both so realistic that they are similar because of this.


I play dead is dead for the most part, and always start in 39. So my expirence with the later years of the war are very limited. And the scene when they go to attack the Destroyer in a storm, and he loses sight of it for a moment, and when he finds it again the Destroyer is right on top of him in an attack run, well, that happened to me pretty much that night after watching the movie.

What does he say? "The British have stopped making mistakes." And someone else speculates about rumors of advanced detection tools.

It was amazing. I knew just how they felt, as I was approaching a convoy as I always do and before I got even close a Destroyer was steaming right at me, 1000s of m away from the convoy.

It's a great film, is what I'm saying. :)

[Kurushio]

I'm sorry, Crimson Tide may have used realistic sets, but the plot and the procedures were about as realistic as a twelve-year-old in a cardboard box. That movie was pure drek.

Care to elaborate?

[Kurushio]

Wait... please tell me that is irony on some divine level. Crimson Tide? The 1995 Crimson Tide? Ohio sub? I damned near puked from it! I don't mean to be trying for flaming or anything, but it goes "down there", with U-571 and the rest.
:down:

Would be nice if you were more specific. I hope you're not going to add "Oh, by the way...I'm Norwegian".

[Kurushio]

Might I remind you that it was Das Boot that created these clishe's. As for the dialog translation, just get the subtitled version!

No it didn't...the cliches are about as old as the mountains. And I have the subtitled/Directors Cut. The subtitles are just as bad...:down:

[Ula Jolly]

@ Kuru:
Why would I want to add THAT? Oh by the way... I'm Norwegian.:up:
(And don't triple post, I urge you)

Crimson Tide is another production based on something Hollywood never understood, submarines. Go ahead and call me a nitpicker and feel free to claim that I don't know what I'm talking about, but if I remember the movie correctly (it's been a year since I watched it), there was an Akula-Ohio engagement. This, absolutely, SUCKED. I mean one thing is that you have the boats not seeing one another till the last FIVE HUNDRED YARDS, another is the dreadfully cliché evasion. That Ohio would be deadscrabble! The story was good, but the movie was a horrible way of trying to get it through. Yes, it was perfectly viewable, but for the same reasons as U-571: If you see things that you know or have good reason to suspect is wrong, you groan inside. Like National Geographic's documentaries about aircraft accidents, and how badly they are made. Perhaps ninety percent of the audience don't know better, and think of it as good enough. Well, isn't it?? YES, these documentaries are good enough for the stories and the education, but not for the visual depicting.

I'm not complaining about, say... the submarine equal to sounds in space, I am complaining about the complete lack of desire to depict ANYTHING in ANY fashion which might not keep the audience glued to the chair. Those submarines should ("should") have engaged at a much greater distance and in a different manner which would have offered perhaps nowhere near the suspense that incorrectly depicting it would have.
The insides of the ships, very nice. The struggle, nice one. Moral point = unbeatable. Visual, crap and toodlefoodles. It's a movie, the picture is important.

[Kurushio]

@ Kuru:
Why would I want to add THAT? Oh by the way... I'm Norwegian.:up:
(And don't triple post, I urge you)

Crimson Tide is another production based on something Hollywood never understood, submarines. Go ahead and call me a nitpicker and feel free to claim that I don't know what I'm talking about, but if I remember the movie correctly (it's been a year since I watched it), there was an Akula-Ohio engagement. This, absolutely, SUCKED. I mean one thing is that you have the boats not seeing one another till the last FIVE HUNDRED YARDS, another is the dreadfully cliché evasion. That Ohio would be deadscrabble! The story was good, but the movie was a horrible way of trying to get it through. Yes, it was perfectly viewable, but for the same reasons as U-571: If you see things that you know or have good reason to suspect is wrong, you groan inside. Like National Geographic's documentaries about aircraft accidents, and how badly they are made. Perhaps ninety percent of the audience don't know better, and think of it as good enough. Well, isn't it?? YES, these documentaries are good enough for the stories and the education, but not for the visual depicting.

I'm not complaining about, say... the submarine equal to sounds in space, I am complaining about the complete lack of desire to depict ANYTHING in ANY fashion which might not keep the audience glued to the chair. Those submarines should ("should") have engaged at a much greater distance and in a different manner which would have offered perhaps nowhere near the suspense that incorrectly depicting it would have.
The insides of the ships, very nice. The struggle, nice one. Moral point = unbeatable. Visual, crap and toodlefoodles. It's a movie, the picture is important.
First of all, I didn't "triple post". I was replying to 3 different posts. I have no idea how you put 3 different quotes in one post. Secondly, you are not in any position to say what is realistic or unrealistic, considering as I understand it, are or never have been in the US Navy or been on an Ohio class sub in any capacity...let alone an expert on air disasters.

Secondly, I don't think it's the Ohio's job to engage anyone. You know it's a boomer, right? It's supposed to evade if possible.

p.s. I put the "Norwegian" bit because I'm trying to figure out how a Norwegian would know anything about an Ohio class sub, let alone US Navy procedures.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I'm sorry, did I see the title "U-571" in the same topic - no - the same forum as Das Boot?

You know, I must be honest with you, I was loving U-571 when i first watched it. Then they threw grenades down the hatch - I was mildly annoyed. Then a torpedo scraped along the side of the boat - I was frowning.

But what really got me miffed on a re-watch?

"Its all in German!"


:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: Just....gah.

[Ula Jolly]

First of all, I didn't "triple post". I was replying to 3 diffrent posts. Secondly, you are not in any position to say what is realistic or unrealistic, considering as I understand it, are or never have been in the US Navy or been on an Ohio class sub in any capacity...let alone an expert on air disasters.

Secondly, I don't think it's the Ohio's job to engage anyone. You know it's a boomer, right? It's supposed to evade if possible.

You did post three separate times in a row, that should technically be considered triple posting, unless you have your specific rules about that. I am not looking to open up any kind of flame war of any kind, I was expecting this to be a somewhat objective sharing of viewpoints about a movie.

You misread me, and you have misjudged what knowledge I do have about submarines.:know: I'll leave it to that, because any further explanation would either not suffice to you, and/or just result in another, just as unproductive reply. I should have provided my reasons to disliking the movie as I already provided my viewpoint, but I saw this as a discussion about Das Boot - not a 'film critics meet and discuss'.:up:

[Kurushio]

As I said before, I do not know how to put 3 different quotes into one post...thus why I had to use three different posts to quote and answer three different people. I don't care about post count or anything petty like that. Tell the mod to reset my post count or better still, fix it on 0...see if I care. Not that it's of any concern to you...are you a mod?

You seem to imagine you're more then you actually are. Authority on the Ohio, an expert on air accidents...and now a mod, which you are plainly not. Not trying to flame... ;)

[Umfuld]

Well I know nothing about subs at all. But one of my favorite movies is Hunt For Red October.

Anyone have any thoughts about that? Just wondering if that is more or less accurate in regards to modern subs. I don't read Clancy, but from what I know he does a lot of research on the subjects he writes about.

Again, not to side track the thread, I'd just be interested in hearing from anyone who knows about such things.

[bigboywooly]

Well the most annoying thing about u571 was where were the Brits ?????
As in RL it was a British operation that the film is about not a US one

Not a patch on Das Boot anyway..U-571 makes everything seem sweet: there is no claustrophobia, the crew gets along pretty well, they kill every german in sight, and even a destroyer. Das Boot shows a destroyed boat, terribly strained relationships, a sense of quiet desperation and resignation. Where U-571 plays glorious fanfare, Das Boot counters with powerful silence. Where Das Boot puts grime, U-571 substitutes pretty faces. Where Das Boot has realism, U-571 doesn't.

[Kurushio]

Well I know nothing about subs at all. But one of my favorite movies is Hunt For Red October.

Anyone have any thoughts about that? Just wondering if that is more or less accurate in regards to modern subs. I don't read Clancy, but from what I know he does a lot of research on the subjects he writes about.

Again, not to side track the thread, I'd just be interested in hearing from anyone who knows about such things.

I know something about Clancy. It's rumoured he was debriefed by the Pentagon after he wrote the Hunt for Red October...but this is just a rumour. Probably brought on by the fact that Reagen said to the audience at a public function that it was his "favorite book". Also, take into account that the publishers of the book were the Naval Press and Hunt for Red October to this day remains the only work of non-fiction ever published by them.

The book caused a lot of controversy at the time (1984) considering it was the height of the Cold War and there were murmers Clancy was giving away classified information through the book. Though an Admiral once said "There is a major flaw in the book, which I cannot disclose. But for this reason, the book is purely a work of fiction and no danger to national security".

The idea for the book came from a real life incident where a Soviet destroyer was trying to defect to a Scandinavian country.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Syxx_Killer]

I watched Das Boot a few weeks ago when it came on one of Encore's channels. It was ok. I guess since this forum praised the movie so much I had my hopes set too high. I taped it, nonetheless.

The Hunt for Red October was an ok movie, too. I watched the movie a few times before finally reading the book. I was completely shocked how different the movie was from the book. I think the only thing the book and movie had in common was the name.:-j

[Umfuld]

You just can't beat Connery doing a Russian accent.

:rotfl:

[boshunter]

I must say the novel is alot better than the movie....
but the movie itself is a masterpiece!

for anyone who haven't read the Das Boot novel, they should, its somewhat different than the movie and cover alot more

as for u571.. what a joke =)
but the truth is...there will never be a "perfect" war movie... no one want to see the truth and no one will ever be able to recreate the event that happen to those men who die in a war that should never happen

[CybrSlydr]

Das Boot is a damn good movie. :) Alot better than most movies from it's era.

I picked up the Director's Cut Superbit version at Best Buy for $10. Great investment!

Man, the ending... After all that. :cry:

[U-Bones]

I know something about Clancy. It's rumoured he was debriefed by the Pentagon after he wrote the Hunt for Red October...but this is just a rumour. Probably brought on by ....

Sounds like something a news anchor would say. :huh:

Das Boot was great, although I confess I like all sub movies, even the corny WWII era ones.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I hate it when Americans try to make movies about something they dont really have that much experience about. Especially true in U-571 - They should've got Wolfgang Petersen to do that, he wouldn't have messed it up half as much. Sure its alright to watch if you're mainstream but its pretty painful if you're a submarine enthusiast.

Dont get me wrong, America has made some excellent movies in general (Ghostbusters! :D :D ) but war movies have become way too Americanised, subsribing to the "one man/squad on a mission to save Europe from evil"

Bridge Too Far, anyone seen that? Thats a brilliant movie. Its got all three countries in it, and they all work together, providing some excellent chemistry:

"Ask the Brits to get some of those pontoon bridge boats down here ASAP."
"Yes Sir!"
"And be sure to say please!"

Another thing I cant stand is when someone makes a war movie, where the Germans dont speak German.

Oh yeah, remember Kelly's Heroes? :D

[Rhodes]

I like Kelly's heroes...eheh, I saw a movie a few months, The Enemy Below with Robert Mitchum, Curt Jurgens, Theodore Bikel, Doug McClure, 57 movie. The u-boat crew was not portrait as "evil doers" and the captain of the destroyer was not the "revenge looking" caracter. Of course the u-boat model and interior are wrong but the movie is good. I tinhk a good remake now,well done, the movie would became a very good one about the war of atlantic.

[Rosencrantz]

Umfuld wrote:

Well I know nothing about subs at all. But one of my favorite movies is Hunt For Red October.




I was 11 years old I first time read Clancys HFRO and few years older I saw the film. Have to say I didn't liked the film at all. Like someone said before, it can make you feel there is not anything else common between the film and the book but the name. I think the film lost the very basic idea of Clancy: Picturing the life on board and different procedures carried by the crew as realistic as possible, even in the story wich is basicly fiction. Clancy had to carry out a huge intelligency work on his own and in one interwiew Clancy tells, how he intewieved a retired submariner to find out at least a little bit about what was it like on board. I think this was a principal idea what was screwed in the film. After I saw the film, I remember, I thought Connerys beard was the best part of that film, even it didn't followed the style common and allowed to russian CO's. :yep:

I haven't found any writer picturing the subs like Clancy, despite those who really have been on board. First books of Clancy I think are well writen but afterwoods the writer maybe lost some of his touch or maybe started just make the money. At least the subs allmost dissapeared... ;)

Sry the long post.

-RC-

[Ula Jolly]

Sean Connery is just dead flat sexy. :arrgh!:
I read HFRO when I was perhaps thirteen or fourteen, it was a joyous read. As I read more Clancy-books I was disappointed there weren't more submarines - I think HFRO was his best work, at least among those that I've read. (Sure The Bear And The Dragon is a big book, but that doesn't automatically make it as good).

[Slick Rick]

Das Boot is tops with me. I dont believe anything before or since comes even close..

[Sailor Steve]

First, a quote from Ice Station Zebra: "One a submarine we're all on a first-name basis. My first name is captain".

What bugged me about Crimson Tide was the relationships between the officers. On a ship the Captain is the next thing to God: no one questions his decisions or his authority. That said, a good captain know and trusts his executive officer, and the fights they had were nothing like anything that would happen in the U.S. Navy. The plot hinges on the fact that the screenwriter knows nothing of naval protocol or procedures.

The beauty of Das Boot is simply that it doesn't really have a plot; it just follows the crew through a very bad patrol.

[Myxale]

The beauty of Das Boot is simply that it doesn't really have a plot; it just follows the crew through a very bad patrol.

That was probably the best summary of "Das Boot" i've ever heard.:up:
Kudos!

[Perseus]

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).

Crimson Tide, much more realistic...?

OMG

No way. I mean, for starters: the moment the sub loses ULF comms, just as the AEM is coming in. The screens the radio operator is watching start to flash and what not. HILARIOUS. If there's no comms anymore, a message is (at best) stopped in mid-sentence. Your screens do not start flashing, nor do they try to imitate a graphic hoola-hoop. And then there's a load of other rubbish - AAARGH, I'm not even going into that. I'm still embarrassed about the 10 euro I spent to see that *cough* movie *cough* in the cinema.

Realistic movies - erm, try "Hostile Waters" or hell, "Hunt for Red October". Sure, there's some silly Hollywood-stuff in the latter but about 95% is pretty darn accurate.

[Kurushio]

Right, here's my attempt at answering three threads in one post...so no more complaining. ;)

Sailor Steve: What bugged me about Crimson Tide was the relationships between the officers. On a ship the Captain is the next thing to God: no one questions his decisions or his authority. That said, a good captain know and trusts his executive officer, and the fights they had were nothing like anything that would happen in the U.S. Navy. The plot hinges on the fact that the screenwriter knows nothing of naval protocol or procedures.

If the Capatin is "God" then the XO would be "Deputy-God" right? ;) Listen, if the Captain was supposed to run a sub with God-like status, they wouldn't put an XO there who is supposed to CONCUR with him.
No one questions the Captain's authority? What about if the Captain orders every submariner smear grease-oil on their feet and slide the length of the boat whilst making seal noises? weeeeeee Would nobody question him then...you know, say he developed a psychosis by banging his head on the Playboy-stash cupboard? In other words, what would happen if the Captain attempted to launch 200 nukes over Russia without proper, unequivocal proof such a launch was authorised.

That's what Crimson Tide was about. It was also made to highlight that before 1995, boomer Captains had the ability to launch nukes independently of any outside manipulation/input. Scary thought!

Perseus:

No way. I mean, for starters: the moment the sub loses ULF comms, just as the AEM is coming in. The screens the radio operator is watching start to flash and what not. HILARIOUS. If there's no comms anymore, a message is (at best) stopped in mid-sentence. Your screens do not start flashing, nor do they try to imitate a graphic hoola-hoop. And then there's a load of other rubbish - AAARGH, I'm not even going into that. I'm still embarrassed about the 10 euro I spent to see that *cough* movie *cough* in the cinema.

Realistic movies - erm, try "Hostile Waters" or hell, "Hunt for Red October". Sure, there's some silly Hollywood-stuff in the latter but about 95% is pretty darn accurate.

Trivial details. It's a fact of movie making that they always "pretty up" consoles, HUDs etc for the audience. Let's face it, military electronic stuff is boring...people see a movie to be entertained. So it's pretty unfair of you to say it's unrealistic just because of this. And you're forgetting something...REAL LIFE INSTRUMENTS ARE FRIGGING CLASSIFIED!!! ;)

And you can't say Hunt For Red October, the movie, is more realistic then Crimson Tide.:rotfl: Do you really think the interior of a sub looks like that? ;) Resembles more Star Trek then a Typhoon based fictional sub. Which reminds me, you do realise the Red October wasn't a real sub, yes? Caterpillar tehehe...:lol:

Ula Jolly:

Sean Connery is just dead flat sexy.

I hope you're a girl. :hmm:

[Kurushio]

Ok, now one back at ya. If Das Boot is realistic and representative/typical of German U-Boat life in the 1940's. Then insubordination must not have existed as a word back then. ;)

Also: the worst line in movie history, ever:

"They are children taken away from their mamas breasts." (said seriously by the manic depressive captain). :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

No one questions the Captain's authority? What about if the Captain orders every submariner smear grease-oil on their feet and slide the length of the boat whilst making seal noises?
Watch The Caine Mutiny. You'll see just how hard it is to question the captain's authority, even one who's gone off his nut.

I agree Das Boot has problems, especially since many of the procedures are very much different from those of the U.S. Navy. Also, I'd like to think that the men would be a little more professional in their conduct during extreme situations. On the other hand, Crimson Tide may have had a good story, but it just wasn't NAVY.

[Subnuts]

Watch The Caine Mutiny. You'll see just how hard it is to question the captain's authority, even one who's gone off his nut.

But as Admiral Jack Fisher said after the Battle of Dogger Bank, "Like Nelson at Copenhagan and St. Vincent! In war the first principle is to disobey orders. Any fool can obey orders!"

The funny thing is that he was the First Sea Lord at the time, the head of the entire British navy, and he was telling them to disobey orders! :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

But he was referring to captains taking their own initiative, not subordinates taking over the ship.

[Kurushio]

Watch The Caine Mutiny. You'll see just how hard it is to question the captain's authority, even one who's gone off his nut.

I agree Das Boot has problems, especially since many of the procedures are very much different from those of the U.S. Navy. Also, I'd like to think that the men would be a little more professional in their conduct during extreme situations. On the other hand, Crimson Tide may have had a good story, but it just wasn't NAVY.
I believe you are incorrect. I also believe there is written doctrine outlining when and how it is permissible for the XO to take command of the boat if something (i.e. physical or mental illness) should happen to the Captain. Just like the Captain of a sub does not have God-like status, neither does the president of the US. He may be removed and replaced by the Vice President if he is deemed unfit to continue running the country. And if they can do that to the what is essentially the boss of the sub Captain...they can certainly do it to him.

You have to use common sense. If you were on a boat and the Captain flipped and ordered an attack on an innocent country, they would not court martial you (successfully) if you even had to use deadly force to stop him doing so...it's just plain old common sense. We're humans...not machines.

And that's why Crimson Tide is so good. Remember the bit at the end? They court martial Denzel and the outcome? They said he was wrong to override the Captain's orders, but he got promoted and the Captain got forcefully retired. In other words...he was right.

So tell me now. Why isn't it "Navy"? Because I've heard from bubbleheads who've said the procedures are very accurate.

[Sailor Steve]

I believe you are incorrect. I also believe there is written doctrine outlining when and how it is permissible for the XO to take command of the boat if something (i.e. physical or mental illness) should happen to the Captain. Just like the Captain of a sub does not have God-like status, neither does the president of the US. He may be removed and replaced by the Vice President if he is deemed unfit to continue running the country. And if they can do that to the what is essentially the boss of the sub Captain...they can certainly do it to him.
But the Vice-President can't kick out the President and take over-it has to be done through an act of Congress.

You have to use common sense. If you were on a boat and the Captain flipped and ordered an attack on an innocent country, they would not court martial you (successfully) if you even had to use deadly force to stop him doing so...it's just plain old common sense. We're humans...not machines.
Common sense has nothing to do with the navy-procedure does. If a ship runs aground, the Captain's career is over. Period. If a warship is involved in a collision, the Captain's career is over. He'll be court-martialled, and may be found innocent, but he'll never command a ship again.

And that's why Crimson Tide is so good. Remember the bit at the end? They court martial Denzel and the outcome? They said he was wrong to override the Captain's orders, but he got promoted and the Captain got forcefully retired. In other words...he was right.
As I said, that's because the screenwriter didn't know what he was talking about. The events as described could have happened that way, but they had to force the plot to come out the way they wanted.

(from an earlier post)If the Capatin is "God" then the XO would be "Deputy-God" right?
Wrong. There's the captain, and there's everybody else. He has absolute power, it's 'his' ship and everybody else works for him. That said, he has to answer for any decision he makes, and once he's ashore he's subject higher powers.

So tell me now. Why isn't it "Navy"? Because I've heard from bubbleheads who've said the procedures are very accurate.
I was in the navy, and to a sailor some movies feel right, and others don't. That one didn't, at least to me. As you say, some bubbleheads will disagree with me. They were on subs, I wasn't. Fair enough.

[Kurushio]

But the Vice-President can't kick out the President and take over-it has to be done through an act of Congress.

Nope, the 25th amendment section 4 allows the Vice President to take over from the President with just a majority vote from the cabinet only...not Congress. It was actually on 24 (second series) and is actually true.


Common sense has nothing to do with the navy-procedure does. If a ship runs aground, the Captain's career is over. Period. If a warship is involved in a collision, the Captain's career is over. He'll be court-martialled, and may be found innocent, but he'll never command a ship again.

What has this got to do with an XO taking command ala Crimson Tide? :hmm:



Wrong. There's the captain, and there's everybody else. He has absolute power, it's 'his' ship and everybody else works for him. That said, he has to answer for any decision he makes, and once he's ashore he's subject higher powers.

No, you are wrong. What if the Captain wants to start a nuclear war, like in this case? Would you just let him and sort it out when you get ashor....wait a minute....tnothing will be left ashore. OF COURSE NOT!. If the Captain was about to kill off humanity, you could put a bullet in his head there and then, go to bed, wake up and get a medal. Nothing is written in stone...you're thinking about Captain Bligh on the Bounty. It's 2006 not 1506. :lol:


I was in the navy, and to a sailor some movies feel right, and others don't. That one didn't, at least to me. As you say, some bubbleheads will disagree with me. They were on subs, I wasn't. Fair enough.

The procedures used were correct as was the nuke arming sequence...I don't understand what you find so innacurate. :-? Of course some of it is over-emphasised to make it more dramatic...but all in all it was done very well. For God's sake, compare it to Top Gun...will ya? Now that movie didn't even bother with realism, let alone attempt it.

[zombiewolf]

The best sub movie EVER was "Yellow Submarine"
Those Blue Meanies and Apple Bonkers were scary!

[Saintaw]

Crimson tide: isn't that the movie where they were using "PASSIVE" sonar to detect the akula... their PASSIVE sonar, being a circular display going PING PING and showing a red glowing submarine icon? Sure, I've seen it.

Allow me to laugh at that one again... :lol:

[Ula Jolly]

Crimson tide: isn't that the movie where they were using "PASSIVE" sonar to detect the akula... their PASSIVE sonar, being a circular display going PING PING and showing a red glowing submarine icon? Sure, I've seen it.

Allow me to laugh at that one again... :lol:
Things like such were what made me want to bend over, but it might be considered too much a "technicality", bit too trivial to truly allow me to call the film unrealistic and a piece of horsedung.:rotfl::rotfl:
BWAHAHAhAAA! Oh, the sheer guts to put that in the film.:know:
Y'know, some movies you just gaze at, and remain confident that the researchers hired by the makers have their own very internal jokes.

[Kurushio]

First of all the working instruments are classified, so they would and could never show them. Secondly, it's made for a wider audience then just the bearded folk who count rivets and go ballistic when they come up one short. ;)

Seeing you lot are so hot on details...you think the Enigma machine in Das Boot is historically accurate? It's a 4 rotor type which was introduced in 1942. It should have been a 3 rotor type.

Is Das Boot the movie which shows a futuristic and non-existent piece of machinery? :rotfl:HAHA...wow they were advanced having a 4 rotor type Enigma machine. Did they teleport into the future and get it? :lol:

Wait a minute...I found something worse! When the boat is sinking in the straits, rivets ricochet through the "Zentrale" (interior Bridge). There were no rivets in this part of the boat, everything was welded. That to me is worse then a cartoony looking radar screen.


Oh yeay...Das Boot is SOOO realistic. :roll:

[Subnuts]

The rivets were coming off the internal fittings, not the pressure hull. And the four-rotor enigma was just a small mistake.

Oh, and Crimson Tide is sooooo realistic, too!
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0112740/goofs

Also, read these threads that appeared on sci.military.naval back when the movie came out.
http://tinyurl.com/h3utf

http://tinyurl.com/h95uy

Yup, no mistakes here!

[Saintaw]

Classified, ok... they COULD have done something a bit closer to what they show in DW or i688... that bright red PING PING sub icon was just... too... much. (Just like the "Mig 19s" in Top gun).

You seem to take this at heart...are you Gene Hackman by any chance? ;)

[joea]

First of all the working instruments are classified, so they would and could never show them. Secondly, it's made for a wider audience then just the bearded folk who count rivets and go ballistic when they come up one short. ;)

Seeing you lot are so hot on details...you think the Enigma machine in Das Boot is historically accurate? It's a 4 rotor type which was introduced in 1942. It should have been a 3 rotor type.

Is Das Boot the movie which shows a futuristic and non-existent piece of machinery? :rotfl:HAHA...wow they were advanced having a 4 rotor type Enigma machine. Did they teleport into the future and get it? :lol:

Wait a minute...I found something worse! When the boat is sinking in the straits, rivets ricochet through the "Zentrale" (interior Bridge). There were no rivets in this part of the boat, everything was welded. That to me is worse then a cartoony looking radar screen.


Oh yeay...Das Boot is SOOO realistic. :roll:

Dude you are in a minority here, can you name another film that's better, for the period. No film gets the technical details 100% right, heck I saw a Russian (well Soviet era) WWII movie which had Tiger tanks in 1942 recently. Still a great film though.

[Ula Jolly]

Note how I never during the entire topic have called Das Boot realistic on those terms, perhaps only said "properly depicting (...) the submarine".

While the sheer displays may differ slightly (but never from the traditional and very smart WATERFALL), the passive sonar that is shown on CT is a horribly bad radar screen, a completely different matter.
You have your mind set on not understanding that I and some others for some good reasons do not like CT, but enjoy Das Boot.

The bottom line is that Das Boot was not necessarily any more "realistic", but that didn't matter. It didn't matter because you didn't have the stupid visual tricks that CT had, because in Das Boot they didn't attempt to depict things that they didn't really have a clue about. So at least they HAD the Enigma machine, and didn't replace it with a radar. So they both told a nice story, but in Das Boot, people KNEW what they were showing off.
Kudos to Subnuts, those links were fantastic.

The fact that you find a single factual error in the imdb goof-section (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/goofs) for Das Boot, and eleven at the goof-section for CT, should imply that Das Boot was more than a bit more realistic than CT.

[tbarak]

I think the big complaint - which most people refer to as the "Hollywood-ization" of themes - is that films, especially based on war themes, often smack of American ethnocentrism. I mean it's a formula, where there's always a hunk, who gets the girl in the end, who shoots all the bad guys (who are typically German, Islamic, Russian, or who ever the evil-doers of the day are), whose American of course, who usually does it single-handedly without getting even a scratch. Of course most of the US films rub history buffs and aficionados the wrong way.

But Hollywood movies are made for one reason; $$$. And you can't cater to the masses with movies that are too weighted with realism. Reality doesn't make a nice 120 minute package that can be edited for TV.

Das Boot was a great film since it was gritty, tragic, brutally honest, and focused on the drama of the people who went to war in those iron coffins. It really gave one a sense of the desperation and confusion the men must have felt, as their efforts became increasingly more dangerous and sadly, more fruitless. IMO that makes good drama. In general the film achieves a pretty high level of realism without boring the hell out of the audience.

But as I always say, movies are for entertainment and you must suspend your disbelief sometimes. Sure Hunt for Red October was full of BS, but it was a good cloak and dagger yarn. U-571 was too Hollywood for me but I haven't seen Crimson Tide. But all I know is that post-Cold War missile boat patrols were generally boring as hell - they were a deterrent - so depicting it with strict realism wouldn't make a good movie. The only movie I can remember which was pretty realistic, and often held back the glamourization of the War, was Damn Busters. No car chases, no spectacular battles and piles of rubbery dead dummies. They focused on the science and technology and left the drama inherent in the real story to carry the film. The Battle of Britain movie was successful for the same reason.

I saw Kelly's Heroes when I was a kid and thought it was good. Don't know if it would be too "spaghetti western" for me now.

[Kurushio]

Well, you're comparing a movie (Das Boot) made in an era where you could get away with making "docu-movies" ala Tora Tora Tora, The Longest Day etc where box-office receipts were secondary to what the producer wanted. To today, where all that matters is how much money they can squeeze out of a movie, and a docu-movie would therefore be unaccaptable, considering it doesn't appeal to w ide enough audience. So, yes, Crimson Tide may have a few factual errors for the sake of entertainment, but all in all you can't fault them for trying to keep it as realistic as possible whilst entertaining at the same time.

What Das Boot has over Crimson Tide in the props department, Crimson Tide has the acting won hands down. Denzel Washington (twice Oscar winner) and Gene Hackman (three times Oscar winner) compared to Jurgen Prochtnow (who?), Herbet Groneymer (what?) Klaus Wenneman (is that a type of sausage?).

Das Boot is ok...if you like bad acting. :lol:

[Gizzmoe]

Das Boot is ok...if you like bad acting. :lol:

Please tell me that you are just kidding...

[Kurushio]

I think the big complaint - which most people refer to as the "Hollywood-ization" of themes - is that films, especially based on war themes, often smack of American ethnocentrism. I mean it's a formula, where there's always a hunk, who gets the girl in the end, who shoots all the bad guys (who are typically German, Islamic, Russian, or who ever the evil-doers of the day are), whose American of course, who usually does it single-handedly without getting even a scratch. Of course most of the US films rub history buffs and aficionados the wrong way.

But Hollywood movies are made for one reason; $$$. And you can't cater to the masses with movies that are too weighted with realism. Reality doesn't make a nice 120 minute package that can be edited for TV.

Das Boot was a great film since it was gritty, tragic, brutally honest, and focused on the drama of the people who went to war in those iron coffins. It really gave one a sense of the desperation and confusion the men must have felt, as their efforts became increasingly more dangerous and sadly, more fruitless. IMO that makes good drama. In general the film achieves a pretty high level of realism without boring the hell out of the audience.

But as I always say, movies are for entertainment and you must suspend your disbelief sometimes. Sure Hunt for Red October was full of BS, but it was a good cloak and dagger yarn. U-571 was too Hollywood for me but I haven't seen Crimson Tide. But all I know is that post-Cold War missile boat patrols were generally boring as hell - they were a deterrent - so depicting it with strict realism wouldn't make a good movie. The only movie I can remember which was pretty realistic, and often held back the glamourization of the War, was Damn Busters. No car chases, no spectacular battles and piles of rubbery dead dummies. They focused on the science and technology and left the drama inherent in the real story to carry the film. The Battle of Britain movie was successful for the same reason.

I saw Kelly's Heroes when I was a kid and thought it was good. Don't know if it would be too "spaghetti western" for me now.

We made a pretty much similar post at the same time...pretty spooky coincidence. Look up "The Longest Day". It's about the D-Day landings, has a plethora of good actors (Wayne, Douglas etc etc.) and it's made in a documentary style.

Also, yes I agree with you that the Americans are always potrayed as heroes/superhuman, but Crimson Tide can't be accused of this. It shows the madness of US policy before 1995.

Kelly's Heroes is an excellent movie in it's own right...excellent actors and who cares if it's unrealistic. Still good and it captures the feel of occupied France.

[Kurushio]

Please tell me that you are just kidding...

No, not kidding. The acting is awful at best and absolutely crap at worst. Please tell me you don't think the acting wasn't overdone?

[Rose]

Wait a minute...I found something worse! When the boat is sinking in the straits, rivets ricochet through the "Zentrale" (interior Bridge). There were no rivets in this part of the boat, everything was welded. That to me is worse then a cartoony looking radar screen.

Go cry about it.

No, not kidding. The acting is awful at best and absolutely crap at worst. Please tell me you don't think the acting wasn't overdone?

Well, usually when the Tommies are crapping dozens of depth charges around your tiny shell of a boat, you get a bit scared.

[Kurushio]

Well, usually when the Tommies are crapping dozens of depth charges around your tiny shell of a boat, you get a bit scared.

Did I mention this scene? They overact every scene...even when they're lying on their bunks. And it looks more like an asylum then a sub.

Here's a stupid scene: when they first go out and the Captain orders a test dive to maximum depth. And that chubby, mad warrant officer (stupid character) you know the one...scares the journalist. I've seen better acting on Sesame Street. :down:

[Gizzmoe]

The acting is awful at best and absolutely crap at worst.

I couldn´t agree less.

[Rose]

And that chubby, mad warrant officer

There were no chubby people in the boat to the best of my knowledge.

[Kurushio]

I couldn´t agree less.

What about when they are checking for lice on that submariner's private parts? Nice scene...I mean, why didn't he just leave some scenes out?...or is that the "directors cut"? :roll: How about the scene where that submariner comes out of the crapper with his underpants around his ankles. HAHAHA :roll:

Silly movie...

[Rose]

Just showing life on a submarine... That's how it was, mate.

[Kurushio]

There were no chubby people in the boat to the best of my knowledge.

Then you don't remember it....

[Kurushio]

Just showing life on a submarine... That's how it was, mate.
....was it? You were on a U-boat was you? :hmm:

Face it...not everyone likes Das Boot. In actual fact, I'm willing to bet Crimson Tide was more popular when it came out, sold more tix at the box office....and given the choice, 9 out of 10 bods prefer it.

Das Boot is overated...and not that good.

[Subnuts]

....was it? You were on a U-boat was you? :hmm:

I was on a U-boat, and we never had any of those problems. We had enough bunks for everyone onboard, no one ever got crabs, depth charges barely shook the boat, everybody was calm and well-behaved, nobody ever had fights or got oily or sweaty, and the captain was nice enough to check to see if someone was in the head before ordering a crash dive.

Also, we didn't have any meat hanging from the ceiling, our bread never got moldy, and the diesel engines were very quiet. We were all also uptight Nazis, but we try not to talk about that! :D

[tbarak]

Good timing for posting.:sunny:

DB isn't about the acting, and remember, its a German film, which had its original dialogue written and acted in German. I should think you loose a lot in the cultural translation, in the nuances and in the tempo of the speech and the actions and the like. I'm assuming of course you saw and are referring to the English language dubbed version. I think they were cast because they looked like, well, ordinary guys. Crews are like that, you get some people that you just can't stand. There were two states, bored and scared ***less, and the actors accomplished those capably enough.

Although Procnau I think got an Oscar nomination for English Patient. Between Hackman and Washington I'm sure that would have made the budget at least $40M. That was half of the entire budget for DB.

[Rose]

Haha Prochnow was only in the English Patient for like 3 minutes. He's awesome though. Da Vinci Code anyone?

[Myxale]

Bad acting in Das Boot? :o
Jesus! The movie lives only because of those Characters and the Madness!:-?

If a Tom Cruise-Missile can get away with bein' a fluent japanese speaking an' sword-swingin' Samurai. So can Mr. Prochnow; in bein an german Kaleun.

Oh, and Oscars and grammys and big bad snot mean bugger all today.
By popular demand even Britney Spears will get an oscar! :dead:
God, please no!

[Sailor Steve]

Nope, the 25th amendment section 4 allows the Vice President to take over from the President with just a majority vote from the cabinet only...not Congress. It was actually on 24 (second series) and is actually true.
Yep. You'd better go back and reread it. Better still:
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

What has this got to do with an XO taking command ala Crimson Tide? :hmm:
Just a demonstration of how strict the navy is about procedure.

No, you are wrong. What if the Captain wants to start a nuclear war, like in this case?
You must have missed the point of the movie. It wasn't clear that the captain wanted to start a nuclear war. The Exec disagreed and wanted to wait for more information. Of course Washington was right and Hackman was wrong-that was made clear from the beginning. The plot was obvious, and at least I saw how it was going to end from the first argument. Maybe that's what I really didn't like.
Would you just let him and sort it out when you get ashor....wait a minute....tnothing will be left ashore. OF COURSE NOT!. If the Captain was about to kill off humanity, you could put a bullet in his head there and then, go to bed, wake up and get a medal. Nothing is written in stone...you're thinking about Captain Bligh on the Bounty. It's 2006 not 1506. :lol:
It's still the military mindset, something I'm beginning to suspect you don't understand.

The procedures used were correct as was the nuke arming sequence...I don't understand what you find so innacurate. :-? Of course some of it is over-emphasised to make it more dramatic...but all in all it was done very well. For God's sake, compare it to Top Gun...will ya? Now that movie didn't even bother with realism, let alone attempt it.
What does that have to do with the XO taking command ala Crimson Tide?:hmm:

This started because you claimed a real distaste for Das Boot, and cited Crimson Tide as 'realistic'. I disagree.

[Kurushio]

Say what you want, Oscars still mean something. Maybe they don't always get it right, but look down the list of winners...you can't say any of those aren't at the least good or well made fimls. Gladiator, Ben Hur, Saving Private Ryan, Lord of the Rings: TOTK etc. etc. All classics.

Then you have The Boot. :lol:

[Sailor Steve]

Say what? Oscars have never meant anything. Hollywood insiders vote for what THEY like the best...no, not even that-they vote for the people who schmoozed them the most.

The Oscars are more about politics than congress is.

[Kurushio]

Sailor Steve, I'm not going to bother quoting you, because you're the sort of person who just twists everything to suit what he wants to say, never listens to reason or truth...and frankly is too hard headed to bother with. Plus, you're starting to bore me.

The 25th amendment being a case in point. First of all you said only Congress could remove the President from his position. I proved you wrong by guiding you to the 25th which gives the Vice-President authority to remove him with just a majority cabinet vote. What happens after, the appeal process etc. is beside the point. The Pres can be replaced if his actions are deemed to be mentally unstable.

As for the Captain of CT, he was esentially starting a nuclear war. :roll: Forget it...I'm wasting my time with you.

I was in the army (cav)...I suspect the only uniform you've ever worn is your spiderman pjs.

If I can find an ignore button on this forum...I shall apply it to you. :up:

[bigboywooly]

Face it...not everyone likes Das Boot. In actual fact, I'm willing to bet Crimson Tide was more popular when it came out, sold more tix at the box office....and given the choice, 9 out of 10 bods prefer it.

Das Boot is overated...and not that good.

Das Boot wasnt meant to be a box office hit
The full 6 hour version made for airing on TV which is where I saw it first and have loved ever since, Sure it was released as a movie too and at the time broke box office records

"Under the distribution constraints of the time, Wolfgang Petersen and editor Hannes Nikel produced a cut for international theatrical release that went on to win critical acclaim and break box-office records."

The film wasnt made with $$$ in mind but to give us an insight into life on a German uboat made by a German director with German cast and IIRC it was the first war movie/tv mini series made about the war in Germany ,,and they even used a real size reconstruction of a uboat which was accidently sunk during filming - which was later refloated and used in Raiders of the Lost Ark

Everybody has their own opinion as to what a good film is but IMHO its the best sub film ever

[Sailor Steve]

Sailor Steve, I'm not going to bother quoting you, because you're the sort of person who just twists everything to suit what he wants to say, never listens to reason or truth...and frankly is too hard headed to bother with. Plus, you're starting to bore me.
I have that affect on some people.

The 25th amendment being a case in point. First of all you said only Congress could remove the President from his position. I proved you wrong by guiding you to the 25th which gives the Vice-President authority to remove him with just a majority cabinet vote. What happens after, the appeal process etc. is beside the point. The Pres can be replaced if his actions are deemed to be mentally unstable.
Gee, it looks to me like the President can reverse their decision by simply writing out "They're lying; there's nothing wrong with me". Then it has to be decided by congress.

As for the Captain of CT, he was esentially starting a nuclear war. :roll: Forget it...I'm wasting my time with you.
I think you're wasting everybody's time.:rotfl: Not really, but I think you left yourself wide open for that one.

I was in the army (cav)...I suspect the only uniform you've ever worn is your spiderman pjs.
My avatar is a picture of me on board my destroyer, USS Brinkley Bass (DD-887), taken in Manila Bay in March, 1970...the middle of the VietNam war. I do still have my VietNam Service Medal. No others, though-I'm no hero.

If I can find an ignore button on this forum...I shall apply it to you. :up:
Fine by me, just don't make a habit of jumping into other people's threads to tell them their favorite movie is crap.

I'll now consider myself ignored, and try to get on with the rest of my life.:cry:

[Kurushio]

Das Boot wasnt meant to be a box office hit
The full 6 hour version made for airing on TV which is where I saw it first and have loved ever since, Sure it was released as a movie too and at the time broke box office records

"Under the distribution constraints of the time, Wolfgang Petersen and editor Hannes Nikel produced a cut for international theatrical release that went on to win critical acclaim and break box-office records."

The film wasnt made with $$$ in mind but to give us an insight into life on a German uboat made by a German director with German cast and IIRC it was the first war movie/tv mini series made about the war in Germany ,,and they even used a real size reconstruction of a uboat which was accidently sunk during filming - which was later refloated and used in Raiders of the Lost Ark

Everybody has their own opinion as to what a good film is but IMHO its the best sub film ever
You're just repeating what I said. When they made Das Boot they could make movies without worrying about how much money they would rake in at the box office. Not so when they made Crimson Tide. They had to assure the movie was entertaining as well. Constraints Das Boot obviously didn't have considering I don't find entertaining seeing a mans arse as he comes out of the crapper or men watching lice being pulled from a guy's crotch...don't know...not my idea of entertainment. :hmm: But everyone to his own...

...though I wont change my mind despite people who supposedly served on a destroyer in the 1970s (which makes them an expert on an Ohio class sub? How does that work?). Das Boot is a ridiculous movie...badly acted and if you show a girl that...she'll think you're a nerd. :yep: I mean come on....you're out on a date with a hot babe..."so...what films do you like?"..."Oh..well...Das Boot"....she looks at you funny..."Is that some kind of German fetish film?" she asks baffled. :lol:

[bigboywooly]

You're just repeating what I said. When they made Das Boot they could make movies without worrying about how much money they would rake in at the box office. Not so when they made Crimson Tide. They had to assure the movie was entertaining as well. Constraints Das Boot obviously didn't have considering I don't find entertaining seeing a mans arse as he comes out of the crapper or men watching lice being pulled from a guy's crotch...don't know...not my idea of entertainment. :hmm: But everyone to his own...

...though I wont change my mind despite people who supposedly served on a destroyer in the 1970s (which makes them an expert on an Ohio class sub? How does that work?). Das Boot is a ridiculous movie...badly acted and if you show a girl that...she'll think you're a nerd. :yep: I mean come on....you're out on a date with a hot babe..."so...what films do you like?"..."Oh..well...Das Boot"....she looks at you funny..."Is that some kind of German BDSM film?" she asks baffled. :lol:

Not at all - are you saying that until 1981 movies didnt need to make money:hmm:
I actually said it wasnt meant to be a box office hit not that it didnt need to make money - all movies need to make money but with some thats all they are interested in
As for the trousers down scene well that was just hilarious and while being no uboat expert have read enough on the 2nd world war to know that lice was a serious problem all armed forces had to contend with

And as the book was written by someone who was there no doubt he has a better knowledge of what went on than you or I

[Subnuts]

...though I wont change my mind despite people who supposedly served on a destroyer in the 1970s (which makes them an expert on an Ohio class sub? How does that work?).

Perhaps you could tell us all about your naval career before you go about insulting former servicemen on this board and calling them frauds.

You saw what happened when somebody walked up to Buzz Aldrin, a former marine, and called him a coward, a liar, and a (thoof!):shifty:

[Kurushio]

Not at all - are you saying that until 1981 movies didnt need to make money:hmm:
I actually said it wasnt meant to be a box office hit not that it didnt need to make money - all movies need to make money but with some thats all they are interested in
As for the trousers down scene well that was just hilarious and while being no uboat expert have read enough on the 2nd world war to know that lice was a serious problem all armed forces had to contend with

And as the book was written by someone who was there no doubt he has a better knowledge of what went on than you or I

The book was written by someone who "was there"? :rotfl:He wasn't exactly a submariner...actually, no..he wasn't. He just took a trip on one once. Didn't one of the crew say that he got a lot of things wrong and he was crazy to think he would know how life on a U-boat would be?

And yes, in 1981 there was less pressure to make money in movies then there is today. ;)

I don't care...say what you want...fact remains I fell asleep on the first 3 attempts at watching The Boot. :88)

[Kurushio]

Perhaps you could tell us all about your naval career before you go about insulting former servicemen on this board and calling them frauds.

You saw what happened when somebody walked up to Buzz Aldrin, a former marine, and called him a coward, a liar, and a (thoof!):shifty:
Mate, he started the insulting by saying I'd never wore a uniform. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

p.s. I'd kick Buzz Aldrin's arse. Trust me. :arrgh!:Though poor guy...he's a bit of an old timer now...so it isn't exactly fair.

[Ula Jolly]

I have to stress that an Oscar never meant anything for REALISM, I think we all can agree on that... Gladiator is a horrible proof of it, too (yes, I am a submarine-aviation-ancient Rome's history buff). And Oscars don't always go to those who deserve them, the best example being Morgan Freeman (who's destined to get some Oscar in a bad movie, just so that he'll actually GET it, it drives me nuts). /rant off.

[Subnuts]

Come to think of it, I think the Simpsons episode Simpson Tide was more realistic than Crimson Tide.

Even if it is a bit hard to believe that Lenin could come back from the dead, or that a depth charge could cause a pinhole leak that could only be plugged with an earring, or that penguins have their own navy. :roll:

And I sorta doubt that anyone would put a naval base a half mile upstream from a waterfall.

[Kurushio]

I have to stress that an Oscar never meant anything for REALISM, I think we all can agree on that... Gladiator is a horrible proof of it, too (yes, I am a submarine-aviation-ancient Rome's history buff). And Oscars don't always go to those who deserve them, the best example being Morgan Freeman (who's destined to get some Oscar in a bad movie, just so that he'll actually GET it, it drives me nuts). /rant off.

As I keep on saying....movies today cannot be 100 per cent realistic. Gladiator is much like Crimson Tide. I'm not a Roman history buff like you, but I watch the occassional documentary. You have to admit, they did a pretty good job. The Emperor was correct, wasn't he? Around that timeline...and the Colloseum was pretty much correct...you know...round etc. :doh:

[Kurushio]

Come to think of it, I think the Simpsons episode Simpson Tide was more realistic than Crimson Tide.

Even if it is a bit hard to believe that Lenin could come back from the dead, or that a depth charge could cause a pinhole leak that could only be plugged with an earring, or that penguins have their own navy. :roll:

And I sorta doubt that anyone would put a naval base a half mile upstream from a waterfall.
The only thing I didn't like about Crimson Tide was the Russian rebellion scenario. It's been done to death...though that was just a plote nuance. I could live with the funny instruments and dials etc...that's expected.

Though I think most of you hate the fact that Crimson Tide is a modern day sub movie, and you're all SH3 fanatics. It's dicrimination against modern subs...I've seen it before. :dead:


Look at this pic (it's from a zombie movie) :yep: :

http://www.rom.gr/ROM7/images/g/das%20boot%20gen%204.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

It's still the military mindset, something I'm beginning to suspect you don't understand

Mate, he started the insulting by saying I'd never wore a uniform. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
I didn't say you never wore a uniform, but it's close enough for government work. I apologize if I was wrong, but that's the vibe I was getting from your comments. Also, someone else defending me is not the same as me not being able to take it.

Besides, I like my Spiderman PJs.

[Ula Jolly]

I don't know about my fellow forummates, but I personally have much more knowledge about modern submarines than those sixty year old ones, and definitely like them better (though I do dislike nuclear ones, sometimes they seem so all-powerful. Personal bias). If you do have to blame our argumenting against you on that we dislike old subs, honestly you're lost of ammunition. And Gladiator didn't even get the bloody Colosseum right, it beefed it up in size unnaturally much. Pilas, essentials in Roman warfare tactics, were never used, the clothing was all and everywhere off, blaaah blaaah blaaah. Good story, messed up production (don't know about you, but when I spot TWO cameras the first time I watch the movie, something IRKS me).
The only really believable thing about CT was the Russian rebellion.

[bigboywooly]

The book was written by someone who "was there"? :rotfl:He wasn't exactly a submariner...actually, no..he wasn't. He just took a trip on one once. Didn't one of the crew say that he got a lot of things wrong and he was crazy to think he would know how life on a U-boat would be?

And yes, in 1981 there was less pressure to make money in movies then there is today. ;)

I don't care...say what you want...fact remains I fell asleep on the first 3 attempts at watching The Boot. :88)

one more trip than you took in a uboat

[Kurushio]

I didn't say you never wore a uniform, but it's close enough for government work. I apologize if I was wrong, but that's the vibe I was getting from your comments. Also, someone else defending me is not the same as me not being able to take it.

Besides, I like my Spiderman PJs.

What is "close enough for government work"? I was in a cav regiment. Tanks...maybe not as cool as a sub, but nonetheless, I have served. You lot have it good on a ship...good food etc.

[Kurushio]

I don't know about my fellow forummates, but I personally have much more knowledge about modern submarines than those sixty year old ones, and definitely like them better (though I do dislike nuclear ones, sometimes they seem so all-powerful. Personal bias). If you do have to blame our argumenting against you on that we dislike old subs, honestly you're lost of ammunition. And Gladiator didn't even get the bloody Colosseum right, it beefed it up in size unnaturally much. Pilas, essentials in Roman warfare tactics, were never used, the clothing was all and everywhere off, blaaah blaaah blaaah. Good story, messed up production (don't know about you, but when I spot TWO cameras the first time I watch the movie, something IRKS me).
The only really believable thing about CT was the Russian rebellion.

You ever been to the Colleseum? You do realise it's not supposed to be like that, right? You also realise it had a roof? I didn't find it "beefed up" in the film. Looked pretty much the same size when I went in there.

The Russian rebellion plot has been done countless times...there was more believable stuff...like the "Flash traffic" orders...they were done well. The way the Captain and XO interacted etc.

[Kurushio]

one more trip than you took in a uboat

I played tennis once. Think I should sign play at Wimbledon?

[CCIP]

Dammit, will you stop knocking Das Boot's actors already? :nope:

There is a difference in perception, obviously. I frankly found the Das Boot cast to be much more sympathetic and easier to relate to, because they not over-acted, they're the same sorts of nobodies that fought the war. That was part of the point.

For the record, I made it mandatory viewing for the rest of my family, and they'd enjoyed the movie quite a bit, despite not being fans of submarines to any extent. My brother even came back for seconds.

You'd think from your postings that all these people who like the movie, including myself, are utter idiots who don't know anything about good films or acting. There can't possibly a good reason why so many of us are coming back to watch it for the Nth time, right? :hmm:

[Kurushio]

Dammit, will you stop knocking Das Boot's actors already? :nope:

There is a difference in perception, obviously. I frankly found the Das Boot cast to be much more sympathetic and easier to relate to, because they not over-acted, they're the same sorts of nobodies that fought the war. That was part of the point.

For the record, I made it mandatory viewing for the rest of my family, and they'd enjoyed the movie quite a bit, despite not being fans of submarines to any extent. My brother even came back for seconds.

You'd think from your postings that all these people who like the movie, including myself, are utter idiots who don't know anything about good films or acting. There can't possibly a good reason why so many of us are coming back to watch it for the Nth time, right? :hmm:

No, I think most of you like it because you can relate to it with SH3. I doubt the movie would be so popular without this game. Well, it wasn't since it came out in 1981. :D

[Subnuts]

It's gotten so damned hard lately just to express your love of a movie.

Especially when that movie's better than Crimson Tide. :D

[Ula Jolly]

This roof you speak of was one of fabric, to be pulled out by manual labour to hang from poles that extended up to form a rather nice system. The same poles that in Colosseum worked as FLAGPOLES (which didn't EXIST at that time).
In the movie Colosseum, the amphitheatre (which is not circular, but shaped like an ellipse) was enlargened to 1.5 the actual size. If that is pretty much the same to you then that's fine by me, but don't claim that my observations don't have anything to say.

[bigboywooly]

I played tennis once. Think I should sign play at Wimbledon?
I play sh3 dont make me a submariner

All I said is he saw it - we didnt
Its a lot more to the truth as he saw it than we could guess at

[CCIP]

No, I think most of you like it because you can relate to it with SH3. I doubt the movie would be so popular without this game. Well, it wasn't since it came out in 1981. :D

Actually, not really. I hadn't even really played SHIII when I first watched it, although I agree that SHIII is one reason I'll keep coming back to it. I've met quite a few people who watched it and liked it without ever touching a subsim, too.

My brother's girlfriend, who studies film, says that it's a fairly well-known movie in film circles and seems to be praised particularly for its camera work. :hmm:

[Kurushio]

Das Boot is a fringe cult movie, so unpopular nobody ever bothered to translate the title into English. The people who made Shaving Ryans Privates will probably make Das Booty soon. And you know what? I'll probably enjoy it more! And I bet all of you will too. :up:

[bigboywooly]

No, I think most of you like it because you can relate to it with SH3. I doubt the movie would be so popular without this game. Well, it wasn't since it came out in 1981. :D

:hmm: Let me refresh your memory to what I put earlier

"Under the distribution constraints of the time, Wolfgang Petersen and editor Hannes Nikel produced a cut for international theatrical release that went on to win critical acclaim and break box-office records." makes it popular in my book

I saw the tv series in 81 and have watched it countless times on video since - before playing this excellent game

[CCIP]

:nope:

I was under the impression that title already existed :lol:

***

On the other hand, I'm pleased to be listed among the fringe. After all, my favorite movies include a good bunch of Tarkovsky's work and the obscure late-Soviet absurd-awesomeness that is Kin-Dza-Dza :|\\

[bigboywooly]

Das Boot is a fringe cult movie, so unpopular nobody ever bothered to translate the title into English. The people who made Shaving Ryans Privates will probably make Das Booty soon. And you know what? I'll probably enjoy it more! And I bet all of you will too. :up:

Doesnt need translating does it - the german version was by far the best anyway
More than can be said for the English version of CT

[Kurushio]

:hmm: Let me refresh your memory to what I put earlier

"Under the distribution constraints of the time, Wolfgang Petersen and editor Hannes Nikel produced a cut for international theatrical release that went on to win critical acclaim and break box-office records." makes it popular in my book

I saw the tv series in 81 and have watched it countless times on video since - before playing this excellent game

Box office records...where? Slovakia? Funny how they can make it sound big...when in fact it was a budget, stright-to-video, flop.

Doubt more people saw it then Ben Hur.

[U-Bones]

I have learned that opinions are factual and can be argued to VICTORY.:damn:

I also learned my radar still works :ping::D

[Sailor Steve]

What is "close enough for government work"?
Old U.S. military joke. If it's not perfect, but will make do, it's "Close enough for government work". Also became popular in the '50s in music circles: "It may not be perfect, but it's close enough for jazz"..."close enough for rock 'n' roll" etc.

You lot have it good on a ship...good food etc.
Also, as I had one infantry type point out "No foxholes to hide in...":rotfl:

[CCIP]

M, guys, this is it...

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7517/dontfeedtroll4uc.png

[Ula Jolly]

Kuru, if you honestly think "Das Boot" is UNPOPULAR, you have proved beyond all doubt that we are wasting our time. You are closed to all other opinions than your own, and your actual competence on any of the fields we have gone by in this thread is laughably inexistant, at least I can't find anything here that I would say... shines through.
I'll follow CCIP and leave this to rot.

[Gizzmoe]

M, guys, this is it...

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7517/dontfeedtroll4uc.png

Too late... :)

[Sailor Steve]

Das Boot is a fringe cult movie, so unpopular nobody ever bothered to translate the title into English.
Actually.......I have a VHS copy of "The Boat (formerly Das Boot)" that I bought back in 1996 or so. It's the original U.S. theatrical release, dubbed into English. And SHIII has nothing to do with it, for me at least. I loved the movie back when I was playing Aces Of The Deep.

[Kurushio]

M, guys, this is it...

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7517/dontfeedtroll4uc.png

Ha classic...after all this time, and you haven't changed my opinion...oh yes, I must be a troll. Someone does not agree with you: TROLL!

Please...I just came here to comment on the film. I usually spent my time on the Dangerous Waters forum. Played SH3...very good game...love it.

[Kurushio]

To prove I'm not a troll, I will watch the movie tonight...see if I have changed my mind with all of your input etc. I will be totally unbiased and try to see it as though it was the first time. It'll be the Directors Cut...I only have that. I'll try in German with subtitles...cos I can;t stand the dialogue and I'll just chuck something at my TV. :up:

[Subnuts]

Let's see here, Das Boot:

Has a rating of 8.4 out of 10 from 35,695 voters on the internet movie database.

Has a 100% fresh rating on rottentomatoes.com

Was shown as six-hour TV series in 1985 that was watched by millions of people.

Grossed $10,915,250 when it was released in the US in 1982, and $73,482,661 outside the US. Grossed another $11 million when it was re-released here in 1997. Compare that to it's $14 million production cost.

Has been in almost continuous circulation since 1985 on VHS, DVD, and laserdisc.

Was nominated for six Academy Awards. It won two German Film Awards and a Golden Screen Award.

Has been praised by many former diesel submariners as the best submarine movie ever made.

So, obviously, a fringe cult movie that no one likes.

[bigboywooly]

" bothered "

[Kurushio]

Let's see here, Das Boot:

Has a rating of 8.4 out of 10 from 35,695 voters on the internet movie database.

Has a 100% fresh rating on rottentomatoes.com

Was shown as six-hour TV series in 1985 that was watched by millions of people.

Grossed $10,915,250 when it was released in the US in 1982, and $73,482,661 outside the US. Grossed another $11 million when it was re-released here in 1997. Compare that to it's $14 million production cost.

Has been in almost continuous circulation since 1985 on VHS, DVD, and laserdisc.

Was nominated for six Academy Awards. It won two German Film Awards and a Golden Screen Award.

Has been praised by many former diesel submariners as the best submarine movie ever made.

So, obviously, a fringe cult movie that no one likes.

:lol:

...ok...I'll give it another shot tonight

[Sailor Steve]

To prove I'm not a troll, I will watch the movie...
Okay, now I'll come to your defense. I never said you were a troll, and I still don't think you are. I thought your original comments were on the antagonistic side, like maybe you were looking for a fight. Maybe I was too, as I like a good argument once in a while.

There are things I actually don't like about Das Boot: the guys running to the front of the boat in a crash dive; I may be wrong, but I don't see how that makes much difference in a 750-ton submarine. I also wish they had had no underwater exterior shots; in order to see the depth-charge explosions they placed them all so close that any one of them would have cracked the pressure hull. Also, it could have benefitted from modern CGI: sometimes the scale of the water and lack of foam makes it obvious that it's a model.

What I like the most is the accuracy of the interior, scale-wise. It just feels totally claustrophobic, and I hate/love that. The scenes following them through the boat (yes, those same scenes I find silly) are pretty remarkable all by themselves. Also, they built the interior on a gimballed frame, so it really rocks back and forth, especially during the storm scenes. I've read that some of the actors really got hurt. And part of the 'zombie' look is due to the fact that the actors had to live in the studio during the entire shoot; they signed a contract saying they wouldn't go outside unless Petersen said they could.

I recommend the extended 5-hour version, and I watch it about once a month. But then, I really am a period history geek.

[CCIP]

You don't have to be a troll, just don't act like one, that's all. I think we got your point, and it's certainly valid to an extent; but there's a point where taunting Das Boot fans is really not inviting a healthy conversation.

There's a whole bunch of stuff in Das Boot which is rather unrealistic, and even more that's just plain unlikely. I'm always cautious about calling it 'realistic' as such. It's quite good on many aspects, as Sailor Steve noted, but you have to watch it realizing that it's still a movie.

And yea, with the Zombie look... isn't that what you look like when you live in a sardine can for a few weeks? I doubt they'd be fresh-looking, well-groomed young men. They looked exactly as I'd imagined U-boat men from reading quite a bit of literature on them (not Das Boot alone). As far as life aboard, Das Boot entirely lives up to the many accounts I've read.

[Ducimus]

And yea, with the Zombie look... isn't that what you look like when you live in a sardine can for a few weeks? I doubt they'd be fresh-looking, well-groomed young men.

I didn't catch the whole conversation but it looks like you might be refering to how pale a crew might be (along with being unshaved). I think this would largley depend on type of boat and operating area. According to Han's Gruebers memior of U505, they acutally had sunburns. North atlantic and south atlantic were totally different. The heat inside the pressure hull was intense and the men would use any excuse they could to get topside. The condenation while submerged, dripping from the pressure hull would turn books into paste.

[CCIP]

Nah, more like the general conditions. In the tropics, you might get a sunburn, but you won't be a happy man spending most of your day in a metal tube that has no air conditioning (and I know that the temperatures inside the sub could get absolutely awful there). :p

[Ducimus]

Nah, more like the general conditions. In the tropics, you might get a sunburn, but you won't be a happy man spending most of your day in a metal tube that has no air conditioning (and I know that the temperatures inside the sub could get absolutely awful there). :p

Oh yeah. I remembe reading US sub accounts about the heat from the tropics. To sum, men would have to use salt tablets, and the decks within the boat were almost literally awash with sweat - at least during silent running. THey had to turn off ventellation fans. I dont think Uboats had such fans at all. From what ive read, the CE would switch the intake for the diesals to suck from within the boat, that way it would draw air into the boat through the conning tower hatch. (also a good way to get rid of smoke)

[Rose]

There are things I actually don't like about Das Boot: the guys running to the front of the boat in a crash dive; I may be wrong, but I don't see how that makes much difference in a 750-ton submarine.

Actually, I remember reading about an American fleet sub where (I think it was O'Kane in the Tang) the skipper ordered a crash dive, but the ship's ass wouldnt level off, so he had the whole crew go to the stern of the ship, and she leveled off. Pretty cool stuff.

And US subs had AC :D.

[CCIP]

The running might have happened, but it really does seem like a superficial procedure at best. Considering the massive weight of the boat, and the volume of the ballast - even all 50 of the crew would make precious little difference. Even if they did do it, the actual effects of it were probably very minor, and the accounts of it seem to be conflicting. My bet is that it was probably rarely done in reality.

[Rose]

Yes, but it worked on the sub I mentioned above, and to the best of my knowledge, US fleet subs were larger than VIICs.

[Puster Bill]

The running might have happened, but it really does seem like a superficial procedure at best. Considering the massive weight of the boat, and the volume of the ballast - even all 50 of the crew would make precious little difference. Even if they did do it, the actual effects of it were probably very minor, and the accounts of it seem to be conflicting. My bet is that it was probably rarely done in reality.
You have to remember that you are shifting weight that is distributed fairly evenly throughout the boat (and, by the way, compensated for using the trim tanks. That is the LI's job) to one end of the boat. You get thirty guys that each weigh about 160 lbs, that is 4,800 lbs. Think of it as almost 2.5 tons.

Then there is the leverage factor. Think of the boat as a see-saw, with the fulcrum in the middle. You move 2.5 tons to one end or the other, and something is going to happen.

Just finished reading Iron Coffins by Herbert Werner recently, and he describes the crew of his boat running from one end to the other to free it up from the bottom. So, this was apparently a well known technique.

[Ducimus]

Still citing from my current favorite book, Hans grueber recalls one incident where they had to crash dive from a plane. One of the relief valves got stuck and they boat would not fully submerge. In essence the stern of the boat was broaching the surface, and they moved all hands aft to balance the boat and get it under. Luckly, Hans recalls, the plane did not spot them. Had it, he says, they would have been sunk. He furthe recalls the grim humor that followed and U505 got several ostrich remarks from the crew.

Give me time and ill find, and quote the exact passage if you want me to.

[Ducimus]

:hmm:

Here we go, leaves room for doubt unforutnatly.


"A sunderland was flying a course directly toward us. Lowe ordered us to dive, but the relief valve for one of the diving tanks refused to open. The stuck valve not only prohibited us from submerging, but also caused a dramatic imbalance of weight within the sub. Within seconds, u-505 was stranded on the surface with its bow buried deep underwater and it's stern sticking high up into the air at a 40-degree angle! We were absolutely helpless to escape the approaching Sunderland.

Lighting fast reactions by our CE Fritz Forester managed to temporarily free the valve. Meanwhile, the skippered ordered all crewmen to run to the stern end of the boat to help even the imbalance of weight. We all held our breath as the stern slowly began to descend back into the water, wondering when the sunderland would attack. Luckily it did not attack before we had a chance to escape.

We resurfaced at 1430 hours. All sorts of gallows humor enlivened our work as we repaired the relief valve. The best joke was that the English pilot failed to attack because he thought U-505 was an ostrich, with its head buried in the water and its tail sticking into the air. The grim humor masked the fact that we came very close to being killed, either by the sunderland or by an uncontrolled plunge to the bottom of the ocean."

[Rose]

That book sounds wonderful, just by reading that passage. Which book is it? I actually went to the ol' U-505 when I was about 5, when I lived in Chicago (of course, I didn't even know what a U-Boat WAS at that time but, I still can remember how CRAMPED the thing was.). It was a great experience :).

[Kurushio]

Ok, I apologise if I came across as a troll. Wasn't my intention...I'll have to give the movie another shot...as I knew I was gonna fall asleep last night so didn't bother. Might be back playing SH3 again soon anyway... :up:

[Mr.Werner]

Go back to the DW forum. You sound like youre about 16 yrs old (not a good thing).
Das Boot is known to be the best submarine movie out there, get a clue.

<Edit: No name-calling! Part of post removed - Gizzmoe>

[Firebird]

I doubt 'flaming' is held in high regard on this board, Mr. Werner. Also, to participate in a discussion you need to respect someone else's opinion, not pretend that yours is somehow better.

[Mr.Werner]

If you attack das boot, its like you attack my whole family!!!

[Firebird]

Why do I even bother... :roll:

[Ula Jolly]

@ Werner

And if you attack sixteen year olds, it's like you attacked my GENERATION! Last year!
So avoid doing it. :rotfl:

[Kurushio]

I wish I was 16 again...ahhhhh!......how much fun it was. :p Anyway, I apologised didn't I? I was being very critical of Das Boot, I admit...though I'm willing to give it another chance, maybe I'll ike it more this time round...though in German with English subs. :rock:

[Myxale]

I wish I was 16 again...ahhhhh!......how much fun it was. :p Anyway, I apologised didn't I? I was being very critical of Das Boot, I admit...though I'm willing to give it another chance, maybe I'll ike it more this time round...though in German with English subs. :rock:+


That won't cut mate! The english sub-t are half-assed done!
Do the hardcore- German + Dictionary;)

[Rose]

Are you actually serious?

[STEED]

Das Boot is better in the German version. :yep:

[Ula Jolly]

When I first watched Das Boot, the sequence with the car started out with English voices... :down:
The only good way to watch it is with German voices, subtitles work fine for me. :up:

[Rose]

Ya, I always watch with subs... But the DICTIONARY? You guys are too hard-core for me :huh:.

[VoodooPriest]

Das Boot is better in the German version. :yep:
Yes, it is. But thats mainly because the german version is the original version. I yet have to see the film that is better in any other than it's original language version. :yep:

[Kurushio]

Yes, it is. But thats mainly because the german version is the original version. I yet have to see the film that is better in any other than it's original language version. :yep:

I second that...also what everyone fails to mention is that the English version sounds like it was recorded in a shed. Horrible...I mean the sound effects...horid..scary...! :doh: You know when monty python do the horses galloping with coconut shells? Sounds like that...

[joea]

OMG now this guy is criticising Monty Python!!!! :damn:

:rotfl::-j

[Kurushio]

OMG now this guy is criticising Monty Python!!!! :damn:

:rotfl::-j

LOL...no I love Monty Python :rock:

[BenG]

First of all - it is better in German.

But - the English Version was recorded by the same actors in the same studio. Both soundtracks were added later as recording the script/lines at the same time as filming would have been impossibele due to the background noise.

The reason it seems so bad is nothing to do with the movie. It's becuase the Human mind can't cope with seeing the actors lips make different movements to the sounds we are hearing. (i.e a similar (but opposite) but opposite effect to being able to hear someone better if you can see there lips/mouth).

[Kurushio]

First of all - it is better in German.

But - the English Version was recorded by the same actors in the same studio. Both soundtracks were added later as recording the script/lines at the same time as filming would have been impossibele due to the background noise.

The reason it seems so bad is nothing to do with the movie. It's becuase the Human mind can't cope with seeing the actors lips make different movements to the sounds we are hearing. (i.e a similar (but opposite) but opposite effect to being able to hear someone better if you can see there lips/mouth).

You're right...the sounds sound both the same...but have to say in German the voices come out more natural. Maybe it's the stupid accents they gave them in English...sounds like Allo Allo. :lol: They also sound like they are out of an asylum. But in German...have to say it fits in nicer. Will watch it in it's entirity soon...I could grow to like the movie yet. :up:

[Rose]

I could grow to like the movie yet. :up:

That's the spirit!

[Myxale]

OMG we actually brainwashed him to like Das Boot!
Nah, just pokin' fun!:hmm:

As for the Original Voices in movies; Whenever possible i buy the original movies!
Same goes for games! I also have yet to see a game or movie that was better in the dubbed version!:shifty:

[Rose]

OMG we actually brainwashed him to like Das Boot!
Nah, just pokin' fun!:hmm:

He hasn't actually seen it yet...

[Rose]

So Kurushio, its been a month since you said you would try and watch Das Boot... Have you finally succumbed to the pressure and watched it in its entirety?

[johan_d]

Tonite, 20:30 at RTL7, Das Boot the movie on TV. (for the Dutch viewers)

[Rose]

Ik ben nederlands niet :cry:. O well, I own it so it doesn't matter.

[P_Funk]

Kurushio has been banned. I guess we'll never know if he ever saw the movie.:hmm:
Oh well. Its too bad. We seemed to be taming him somewhat.

[Rose]

Kurushio has been banned?! I guess that doesn't surprise me too much... But what specifically was he banned for?

[P_Funk]

Kurushio has been banned?! I guess that doesn't surprise me too much... But what specifically was he banned for?
I don't know. But if you scrollup to the top of the page and look at one of his posts yu'll see under his name where his avatar is supposed to be is instead "Banned".
That's how I found out.

[Subnuts]

Kurushio has been banned?! I guess that doesn't surprise me too much... But what specifically was he banned for?

For being a royal prick for about two months straight.

[Gizzmoe]

Kurushio has been banned?! I guess that doesn't surprise me too much... But what specifically was he banned for?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95929

[Magua]

Banned mostly for vulgar language it seems

[kiwi_2005]

Im at the moment reading "The Boat" for the first time - I own the movie, the directors cut. The book is by far way better - im about half way where they are caught in very bad weather. What a damn good read!

[gmuno]

Have you the German or the English version? The German one is more juicy:D

[Myxale]

Bloody right the book rules! The storm chapters are my favorite.

:rock:

Oh as for our recently banned resident Troll...well to bad, i thought he got better in behavin'!:shifty:

[kiwi_2005]

Have you the German or the English version? The German one is more juicy:D

Do you mean the movie or book? The book is english version, the movie can be viewed as both. I seem to like watching the movie in the german language even tho i dont know German, its more realistic to watch it in german (with subtitles of course :lol: )

But yeah Myxale the storm chapters are a real eye opener! Excellent read.

[gmuno]

The book. In the movie, the english subtitles are sometimes way of the spoken words. I've seen somewhere that the english version of the book is a bit rewritten, about 10 pages summed up, mostly parts of the NCO-conversations :rock: .

[Rose]

Its quite hard for people who don't know German to read an entire book in German... But I see where you're coming from, Gmuno.

[Wilko]

I havn't been able to find a copy of the English version, only the German version and as I can't read German have not read this book yet :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

Amazon should have it.

[Wilko]

Yeah that will be my fall back, but I'd like to find it here in Aussie so as to keep shipping costs down :yep:

[P_Funk]

Okay I've figured out why Das Boot is such a great movie and why it eclipses every other movie of its kind despite its shortcomings. I say its because it is primarily about characters. Its about the men who are on the boat and not about some conveluted story about ending the war with heroic deeds. It is a real story. Whatever details were changed the story of Das Boot is what those men felt and the lengths they went to do their duty while it appeared to be a lost cause. And that is why it is still a better movie than one with more money and better graphics and big name actors. It's an intrinsically human story that has more to do with human beings than WW2.

Alnother reason it works so well is because its based off of real events and not a story invented by a writer who took the time to google a famous battle and some military terminology. I mean they make so many ficticious stories about wars which makes little sense to me simply because there are millions of incredible stories in WW2 and WW1 and everything inbetween and since all of which are way better than the crap they invent in Hollywood. I swear a movie about my grandfather in WW2 would be perfect. Being a Commando and meeting Churchill, being behind the lines in France, Norway, Malta, North Africa, being a Tank Commander on D-Day, filling his comnpany's water truck up with beer from a french brewery and meeting Patton and mouthing off to him when he's being a dick saying bad **** about the Canadian Army. Plus all those disgusting horror stories inbetween where young men die crying for their moms.

Please Hollywood we don't need anymore armchair fiction about WW2. Just call up a few vets and get their stories.

[joea]

P-Funk, ya got it man. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

That's why Band of Brothers is so perfect. It not only tells the true story, it includes comments by the real guys who are portrayed in the series. It's why I'll take Tora! Tora! Tora! or The Longest Day over Saving Private Ryan any time.

Das Boot is unique in that it doesn't really have a plot; it just follows a patrol as it goes from bad to worse. The only thing I can imagine being better would be a movie about one of the real aces.

[Harmsway!]

That's why Band of Brothers is so perfect. It not only tells the true story, it includes comments by the real guys who are portrayed in the series. It's why I'll take Tora! Tora! Tora! or The Longest Day over Saving Private Ryan any time.

Das Boot is unique in that it doesn't really have a plot; it just follows a patrol as it goes from bad to worse. The only thing I can imagine being better would be a movie about one of the real aces.

My thoughts exactly. As I was reading P_Funks comment I wondered if he hasn't seen Band of Brothers. I read a good review and bought Band of Brothers without any further knowelge of it. Am I glad I did. After watching BOB I watched Saving Private Ryan again. It just does'nt compare.

Now I just need to shell out the change a get the full version of Das Boot. It hard for me to watch my directors cut knowing there is more.

[P_Funk]

I adore Band of Brothers! Saving Private Ryan is good for that opening scene of the actual landing, you know, before the main story was introduced. I've heard that they even use that opening sequence in some classes as educational content. However BoB is the best. I love the characters. And the way they manage to portray actual events while maintaining character development for such a wide base of characters is a real triumph. I like to see BoB at least once a year. In fact I'm feeling an inckling.:hmm: The 2nd one where they take out that 88mm battery is very good. But Carentan is alot of fun too. It's so hard to decide!

[bigboywooly]

Yes Das Boot ranks up there with the Battle of Britain and Dambusters for me - maybe a little 633 sqaudron thrown in too lol
Its the immersive value and the characters that make the film - in German of course:up:

[_Seth_]

Jusy checking that all works... Where the h*** is the excellent page http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/ ??? seems like some jerks hacked it..

[kiwi_2005]

Enemy at the gates - good movie

[NIGHTFIGHTER]

P_Funk got it spot on, Das Boot is great if that is your bag of nuts, you can pick every film to bits, even the greats BOB, dambusters, 633, longest day, they are ment as a piece of entertainment. Yes even with CG things can be wrong ie: Gladiator, Titanic but struth are they dam good films. I got DB years ago and love it, then i had the pleasure to meet an ex U-Boat crew member who painted a very vivid picture of life onboard, and explanned how only he and 2 other crew mates were able to escape the sinking of there boat. Then while on holiday in kent i went to Folkstone where in harbour they have a Russian Foxtrot class sub open to the public and folks i had to have a look around her ( if you get the chance do it!!!). But ive rammbled enough, just one more thing, if you loved Das Boot give STALINGRAD a try, great story, absorbing acting and german made!!

[Seminole]

Hi to all.
Finally i have seen the movie Das Boot, directors cut, 3 hours of fantastic movie.



Then....Wait 'til you see the 5 hours version and can watch the radioman's potted plant grow from seedling to mature specimen.

[John Pancoast]

<Resurrecting dead thread>

I remember seeing this in a theater when it was released in the US....long time ago :)

Anyway, one thing that always struck me odd......during the convoy attack....they fired from 2200 meters !! :o

Thought that was......."interesting". :-?

[SubSerpent]

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).
I'm sorry, Crimson Tide may have used realistic sets, but the plot and the procedures were about as realistic as a twelve-year-old in a cardboard box. That movie was pure drek.

Agreed. I served in the US Navy on Frigates (not on subs) but still. I guess for someone who hadn't served in the US Navy they might find it authentic just based on the movie sets and uniforms were pretty well done. The way the officers and crew behaved though was a bit overdone though. For instance, James Gandolfini's character making that black petty officer do push ups on the bus. No one in the military can order you to do push ups for punishment after basic training for potential medical trouble (IE. junior person may have chronic case of trick shoulder). All punishments have to be recommended to the CO first and the CO has the final say so. For enlisted men it usually goes to DRB(board of chiefs, senior chiefs, and master chiefs) then up to XOI(a meeting with the XO), CO's Mast(a meeting with the Captain = NOT GOOD). Any one of the below boards can choose to send it up to the next or end the case at their level. If a punishment is recommened, it still has to be reviewed and approved by the CO. Most of the time the CO will want to see you so that he/she can unleash the wrath of Hell upon you with the maximum punishment (reduction in rank, loss of half pay x 2 months, restriction to ship or barracks for 45 days)

[mr chris]

No, Crimson Tide. That is much more realistic and would've won a few Oscars had it not been for the fact it was competing against the like of Dances With Wolves (I think...a major movie of the genre anyway).
I'm sorry, Crimson Tide may have used realistic sets, but the plot and the procedures were about as realistic as a twelve-year-old in a cardboard box. That movie was pure drek.

Agreed. I served in the US Navy on Frigates (not on subs) but still. I guess for someone who hadn't served in the US Navy they might find it authentic just based on the movie sets and uniforms were pretty well done. The way the officers and crew behaved though was a bit overdone though. For instance, James Gandolfini's character making that black petty officer do push ups on the bus. No one in the military can order you to do push ups for punishment after basic training for potential medical trouble (IE. junior person may have chronic case of trick shoulder). All punishments have to be recommended to the CO first and the CO has the final say so. For enlisted men it usually goes to DRB(board of chiefs, senior chiefs, and master chiefs) then up to XOI(a meeting with the XO), CO's Mast(a meeting with the Captain = NOT GOOD). Any one of the below boards can choose to send it up to the next or end the case at their level. If a punishment is recommened, it still has to be reviewed and approved by the CO. Most of the time the CO will want to see you so that he/she can unleash the wrath of Hell upon you with the maximum punishment (reduction in rank, loss of half pay x 2 months, restriction to ship or barracks for 45 days)

Crickey you guys in the US Navy have it real easy. Im in the UK Army and you can get physical punshisment for most things and it can be dealt out by anyone who holds a rank above PTE. But they have to be a trained physhical training insructor. The punshisment is usualy given and carryed out at the time of your offence. But for more worse crimes it goes up the chain of command.

[Immelman]

Alittle out of contaxt but you think you Britts have it bad? Try the Greek army ever had a field exercise with live ammo? I have, trust me it aint pretty having real arty fire bouncing arround your position and pillboxes openning up with 50 and 20 cal. Sure they tell you its safe there are preestablished lines of fire and you have rehearsed over and over agian till you can't stand it any more but mistakes do happen. Alot of chaps have bought it over the years.

[kiwi_2005]

Das boot rocks ppl! Best movie ever!

Bring on Das boot 2 :rock: Surely theirs a director out there that hasn't thought of the possiblity to make a sequel. Might email my buddie Peter Jackson and ask him to offer a few million for the rights;). Peter Jackson in every movie has added in as extras new zealanders in his movies, a mate of mine was in Lord of the rings never spoke a word but still he can claim he was part of it. Now just think if he did Das Boot and you fellas saw Kiwi in the movie as one of the lookout extras :p

I would convince Peter that i should have a Subsim badge on my cap :yep:

:arrgh!:

Edit: oh sh*t im olive skin are their olive skin germans? oh i know we can pretent its a tan from the sun rays