I think i finally figured out the IX boat appeal

[Ducimus]

Over the last few days i was working feverishly to put together the 3rd flotilla in UC. I figured, if im gonna try a VIIC boat career, im gonna do it right. I wanted to recreate U-333, primarly because i liked the philopshy of the skipper. "Everythign is little fish". ( goes back to the old say, "theres two rules in life. "Dont sweat the small stuff, and Everything is small stuff").. personal appeal thing, but thats beside the point.

To get to the point, I am on my first patrol in a VIIC uboat, and i already am bored to tears. Now i've done type 7 careers before, a long time ago, but.. ive played for 4 hours now, and i think id have already accomplished more in a type IX. After recollection...

1.) Passage of time and distance as a sense of accompllishment.. Even if I don't see much in shipping, i still feel like i accomplished something by virtue of having made a long trip. In a type 7 this sense of accomplishment is lacking to me.

2.)In both boats your going to have this really dull period where your searching or waiting for shipping. However, in a type 9 you typically patrol areas where shipping patterns are alot easier to guess, and you often have more chockpoints which shipping must pass through that you can use to your advantage. In a type 7 i find myself sitting around AM54 or there abouts waiting for a convoy. And well, it takes a long damn time.

For example, a week in a type 7 goes by alot slower because your submerging, checking hydro's, periscopes checks and surfacing ALOT more. In a type 9 the same week goes by with alot less hassel, and i could cover ALOT more ocean which increases my chances of finding shipping.

3.) The allure of foreign ports is a perk unto itself.

4.) Type 7's were meant to operate in wolfpacks. Type 9's were meant to operate independatly. Operating independatly is all you do in SH3, there are no wolfpacks. Theres no point in shadowing a convoy. No sense of being part of the whole. In a type 9 this is the norm, your far far from home.

5.) More fuel and torpedo's is an undeniable perk.

6.) Somethign about seeing your bow and front of your boat cut through the ocean as you stand on the bridge. I dont see that in a type 7 as much.

7.)Different ambiance. Its hard to put my finger on. Maybe im just making this up in my mind, but theres something different about long range patrols in far off enemy waters that has this adventurous appeal. Perhaps its best summed up in this poem, which admittidly is about US fleet subs, but I can't but think their are simularities to an IX boat career in SH3. ALl you need to do is change a few names of the places and its about the same thing.


I'M THE GALLOPING GHOST OF THE JAPANESE COAST

By Constantine Guiness, MOMM 1/C, USN

I'm the galloping ghost of the Japanese coast.
You don't hear of me and my crew
But just ask any man off the coast of Japan.
If he knows of the Trigger Maru.

I look sleek and slender alongside my tender.
With others like me at my side,
But we'll tell you a story of battle and glory,
As enemy waters we ride.

I've been stuck on a rock, felt the depth charge's shock,
Been north to a place called Attu,
and I've sunk me two freighters atop the equator
Hot work, but the sea was cold blue.

I've cruised close inshore and carried the war
to the Empire Island Honshu,
While they wire Yokahama I could see Fujiyama,
So I stayed, to admire the view.

When we rigged to run silently, deeply I dived,
And within me the heat was terrific.
My men pouring sweat, silent and yet
Cursed me and the whole damned Pacific.

Then destroyers came sounding and depth charges pounding
My submarine crew took the test.
Far in that far off land there are no friends on hand,
To answer a call of distress.

I was blasted and shaken (some damage I be taken),
my hull bleeds and pipe lines do, too
I've come in from out there for machinery repair,
And a rest for me and my crew.

I got by on cool nerve and in silence I served,
Though I took some hard knocks in return,
One propeller shaft sprung and my battery's done,
But the enemy ships I saw burn.

I'm the galloping ghost of the Japanese coast,
You don't hear of me and my crew.
But just ask any man off the coast of Japan,
If he knows of the Trigger Maru.


Damn i can't wait for Silent Hunter 4 :rotfl:

[CCIP]

I love the big boats!

I don't know if it's exactly as you describe; in some way, it's also the fact that SHIII simply suits the IXs better. I never sneak into ports, too, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of sailing these things.

And yea, I'm getting the feeling I'll love SHIV, too, for that same reason.

[Ducimus]

I love the big boats!

I never sneak into ports


I do. One little Gem is this harbor:
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/harbor_raid_02.jpg

St. Helina, do pay it a visit if your ever in the vacinity.

Curroco's another favorite. And theres a couple others who's names escape me.

[Der Eisen-Wal]

cool poem! i'm writting in for a transfer! ;)

[CybrSlydr]

I love the IXC. Give it some upgrades and I'm happy. :)

Someday I'll try the XXI.

[Enigma]

i command an IXc after a long career in V boats...All I wanted was more torps and more speed, and thats ehat the IXC gives me. I wish she turned like a V boat, but you cant have it all....

[JSalinger]

I'm in the middle of a patrol in the North Sea in a Type VIIB, but believe me, once I get back to Kiel, I'm transferring someplace to get a IXB just so I can experience all the things Ducimus likes about them. :D

::writes down St. Helena on his list of ports to visit:: There was a good one in Norway, too, I thought...couple of big tankers.

And Curacao, that's in the Carribean, right?

[Ducimus]

And Curacao, that's in the Carribean, right?

Yaaaaarrrrr!! :arrgh!:

[bigboywooly]

Curacao is great early war as loads of tankers and not much in the way of warships

Had a couple of good hunts down there

[r_wagner]

Hey Ducimus, just out of curiosity how high do you set time compression?

As recommended in the NYGM user manual I don't go higher than 256 which makes long trips REALLY long, I'm even bored sailing from Greenland to Bergen on that TC... ;)

[Enigma]

Sailing for Curaco now. :up:

[Ducimus]

Hey Ducimus, just out of curiosity how high do you set time compression?

As recommended in the NYGM user manual I don't go higher than 256 which makes long trips REALLY long, I'm even bored sailing from Greenland to Bergen on that TC... ;)
Trans atlantic, 2048. Theres not much in between there anyway. Takes like 20-25 game days to make the trip.

If im in theater or around my area of operations, if im submerged 1024, if im surfaced recharging batteris 512. If the game acts sluggish ill kickit down to 128, as theres obviously something BIG nearby :rotfl:

I should add that long range patrols arent for everyone. If your in a hurry to get back to port to start your next patrol, you might not be happy. If your in a mindset of "whats my hurry, im just gonna run right back out here again anyway", then you might like it. :P

[r_wagner]

Trans atlantic, 2048. Theres not much in between there anyway. Takes like 20-25 game days to make the trip.

If im in theater or around my area of operations, if im submerged 1024, if im surfaced recharging batteris 512. If the game acts sluggish ill kickit down to 128, as theres obviously something BIG nearby :rotfl:

I should add that long range patrols arent for everyone. If your in a hurry to get back to port to start your next patrol, you might not be happy. If your in a mindset of "whats my hurry, im just gonna run right back out here again anyway", then you might like it. :P

What is your mod setup? Have you encountered problems with aircraft attacking and destroying with high TC?

[Ducimus]

You can change your time compresson setup in your main.cfg in your mydocuments/sh3 folder.

The reason why NYGM recommands no time compression beyond 256 is because things can get skipped over, or dropped right into your lap. I honestly, havent had much of a problem with it at all.

If your running a 16K visual distance mod, aircraft (your number 1 enemy) really arent that hard to avoid, even at 1024. I drop it down to 256 or 516 when i know im in a aircraft heavy area just to be safe. After 1942 when you get your first Radar warning receive, on top of 16K ( or even 10K) visual distance, i still detect aircraft where i have time enough to crash dive 9 out of 10 planes that make a run at me.

If a plane ever catchs you were you can't crash dive in time and (in the case of improved airpower mods) get below 40 meters in time, then your best bet is to go to flank speed, turn hard to port or starboard, (man the flak guns), and the INSTANT the plane(s) have made their first pass, straighten your rudder and crash drive. Circling around for another pass takes them a little bit.

[JSalinger]

Okay, requipping with a IXB now (transferred to St. Nazaire)...got tired of my speed demon. LOL ::hoping Onkel Karl sends him to the Carribean and not Freetown area:: After that last patrol...::cringes:: Let's just say that I went and picked on England's fishing fleet with my deck gun and flak gun. LOL

How's the intel re: enemy naval activity in the Carribean and West African coastal areas in August of 1940? ::thinks those are the two places he might be sent:: And another dumb question, how do the convoy lanes look around the Iceland/N. Norway/N. Russia area look? Any PQ or QP convoys?

[CybrSlydr]

You could always get SH3 Commander and choose your own patrol grid.

In regards to the shipping... Can't say. Never bothered to go that far. lmfao

[JSalinger]

Not ready for SH3 Commander quite yet...still a bit of a newb. ::grins:: But in case anyone is wondering, I checked out the Bay of Bothnia (or Gulf of Bothnia) last night in July '40...if you're hoping to find some Russian and Swedish fishing boats, maybe pick up some lutefisk and caviar, great place to go. :D Otherwise...wait till June '41 to go sink the Russian ones. :p

[CybrSlydr]

Actually, there's not a whole lot in the way of "readiness" needed for SH3 Commander. :)

It's a program that runs outside of SH3 - you launch it prior to playing (it even has a Launch SH3 button). It generates alot of really neat stuff, giving your Kaleun a background, allowing you to give out more than the alotted medals, promote all who are of experience instead of only 2 or 3, etc.

It's really very handy and pretty cool!

[Ducimus]

almost forgot to mentions mods im running., im running this version of unified campaign.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93647


I retouched the traffic in the US east coast, caribean, and indian oceans a little bit. Details are in the readme if your intrested.

[JSalinger]

Hmm...I like that sound of that, Cybr...

[Keelbuster]

How did I miss another hack at the VII/IX debate? Maybe I'm still learning to read this new forum style. Anyway - Ducimus - if you want to sail over open seas, for weeks at a time, then you need an IX (except when Milkcows are about). I do envy the ability to hunt regularly off of Halifax because I find the fattest convoys there. You're right - there is a different feel in the IX - running on the surface for long periods, unchallenged, into strange distant areas with sporadic single merchant contacts is a different vibe altogether. The problem is that I find no thrill or challenge in hunting single merchants. You can't get killed doing it, even if you surface and fight it out with the DG. Single merchants (or even small convoys) can't kill you. And there's no real need for stealth - I'll often sail up to single merchants, discover they are unarmed, and line up a shot abeam while surfaced in full view. No problem. They sink, I continue. In an IX you have to be resigned to death by air attack; the one time that the sunderland or liberator gets lucky and bombs you dead on. I need convoy attacks. I don't care to wait for hours under time compression for them. Why travel across the altantic when everything you could ask for is floating in the western approaches? I leap out of biscay and grab the first convoy I find and beat it down. If patrol requires then I'll head down to the Gibraltar approach. Or even out to the mid atlantic if required. Wherever there are convoys. With convoys, there are escorts, and they can destroy you. That's the challenge that makes it worth while. Death by air attack seems too chancy; I need the strategic convoy hunt, the surprise attack, the relentlessly cruelty of DCing and the honourable death that follows, which is best met in the VII.

:D

Kb

[Ducimus]

It's not a debate, and why do you always assume that you dont attack convoys in an IX boat? Quite the contrary.


For instance, heres a typical submerged attack, one of my favorites, ill get inside the bloody convoy. Ill do this as late as 44.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_1.JPG
Assuming i use two torpedos per target (mediem cargo), thats 3 ships sunk. or more if i shoot at smaller merchants.


Heres a typical night surface attack, OR any attack where you coudlnt get inside the convoy.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_2.JPG


One of these days your going to wake up and realize anybody can attack a convoy. The size of the boat doesnt mean jack squat in SH3. Ive done everything i can to get the AI to put up more of a fight and most of the time the convoy escorts are fools. Up until mid 43, Id say only 3 or 4 out of 10 convoy attacks would acutally result in a depth charging. Late war, like it or not, i can still get away. On top of all this , you have more fuel and more torpedos. You can execute convoy attacks along longer.

And, you know convoys leave halifax right? just a stones throw from New york. Theres also a couply convoys in the caribean, and some also leave the freetown area.


edit: and truth be told, convoy attacks are almost as boring as single merchants. Its the same story every time.

1. Radio report, plot course, speed, distance.
2. Set intercept course, arrive at appointed time.
3. Get on their track submerged or surface
4. Get solution, fire torpedos.
5. Run away to reload.
6. go to 3

rinse and repeat until your out of fish, or the escorts get somethign resembeling a clue.

[Khayman]

I spotted a merchant in the Caribbean. Since it was unarmed I closed to attack it with my deck gun. Before I got close enough I was pounced on by aircraft, ones I presume the merchant had alerted. So cruising up to lone ships is definitely not a good idea.

As for aircraft and the Type IX. You've just got to take care basically. In areas with patrol planes then stay submerged during the day. Getting Metox and using the sensorpak mod also means that even a Type IX can pick up radar signals and get well under before they arrive. If they surprise you then man the flak guns, hit flank speed and make a turn. Once it's flown over then dive, and again there's enough time to get under.

I survived an attack by 6 aircraft in my IXC, and had no time to dive. They worked in pairs, one pair attacked while the others turned and began their own attack runs. I took only minor damage but it was getting so damned hot that I just had to crash dive - even though two planes were on an attack run. I made it down and evaded them. This is using the airpower mod that came with HT!

Right now I love my IXC and the distant patrols. You do also run into convoys off the coast of Africa, or over on the US coast. So it's not all single ships. But I do want to do a Med campaign, using the beautiful light blue water contained in a mod (I forget which). So after the war ends, or I die, I'll be in a Type VII. I wonder how long I'll last before I hear the call of the Caribbean and its lovely fat tankers:arrgh!:

[Ducimus]

HK groups are always fun too. :rotfl:

[finchOU]

Operating independatly is all you do in SH3, there are no wolfpacks. Theres no point in shadowing a convoy. No sense of being part of the whole.

So much was lost when they decided Wolfpacks would be too hard to put in.

[squigian]

IX is a larger number then VII and II, but not as large as XXI. Case closed. Logic. :smug:

[andy_311]

Why the big jump for a IXD2 you all know that monster of a boat takes around 45 secs to hit pd?
Beutiful boat thogh I love it all them lovely patrols to SA (1 nasty slog it takes forever) just got into the 2 flotilla drivin a IXB won't be very long before a IXD2 is available but this time am going to play it different and see what happens NY is a good place to visit once in a while but it does get boreing after a bit.Now Port of Spain different subject especially if your in the choke point and that nifty convoy spouts up it has no chance.(but neither have you if you get detected).
Ix boats yeah will go for them all the time more fish bigger range cons slow dive times.

[mike_espo]

I too, love the bigger boats. Currently running an IXB career Summer 1940. Hope to transfer to an IXC in 1941. Love the distant patrols and independent operations. :yep:

Being a Chicago boy, I have visited the U-505 many times, A real war craft. Also visited the U.S.S Pampanito in San Francisco. It is like a 747 in comparison to the U-505.

I too, will buy SH4, but I fear it will be too easy....a permanent happy time for the U.S.N:nope:

[Keelbuster]

It's not a debate, and why do you always assume that you dont attack convoys in an IX boat? Quite the contrary.


For instance, heres a typical submerged attack, one of my favorites, ill get inside the bloody convoy. Ill do this as late as 44.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_1.JPG
Assuming i use two torpedos per target (mediem cargo), thats 3 ships sunk. or more if i shoot at smaller merchants.


Heres a typical night surface attack, OR any attack where you coudlnt get inside the convoy.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh3/convoy_attack_2.JPG


One of these days your going to wake up and realize anybody can attack a convoy. The size of the boat doesnt mean jack squat in SH3. Ive done everything i can to get the AI to put up more of a fight and most of the time the convoy escorts are fools. Up until mid 43, Id say only 3 or 4 out of 10 convoy attacks would acutally result in a depth charging. Late war, like it or not, i can still get away. On top of all this , you have more fuel and more torpedos. You can execute convoy attacks along longer.

And, you know convoys leave halifax right? just a stones throw from New york. Theres also a couply convoys in the caribean, and some also leave the freetown area.


edit: and truth be told, convoy attacks are almost as boring as single merchants. Its the same story every time.

1. Radio report, plot course, speed, distance.
2. Set intercept course, arrive at appointed time.
3. Get on their track submerged or surface
4. Get solution, fire torpedos.
5. Run away to reload.
6. go to 3

rinse and repeat until your out of fish, or the escorts get somethign resembeling a clue.
Ducimus - just buggin ya - i like the diagrams. IX boats are cool too.
:)
Kb

Edit: On the other hand, that strategy you've drawn will get you detected - by the time you swing around to pull the aft torpedo attack the escorts will have converged based on your first attack. You would be wise to fire all tubes simultaneously, perhaps 4 at the center column and two at the second or third column out, and then proceed forward quickly through the convoy to clear the datum. Just a thought.

[Ducimus]

Ducimus - just buggin ya - i like the diagrams. IX boats are cool too.
:)
Kb

Edit: On the other hand, that strategy you've drawn will get you detected - by the time you swing around to pull the aft torpedo attack the escorts will have converged based on your first attack. You would be wise to fire all tubes simultaneously, perhaps 4 at the center column and two at the second or third column out, and then proceed forward quickly through the convoy to clear the datum. Just a thought.
My awesome skills in MS paint! lol. ya i know your just buggin me. We seem to have this friendly "My boat has a bigger *** then your boat!" competition thing going on. :rotfl:

In the first diagram, i acutally do shoot all 6 torpedos at once... or rather.. i *try* to shoot them all at once. You still have to readjust your solution for the other end of the boat. Notice the angle i put the boat in, thats deliberate. Ive found at that angle to their track, i can shoot all my fish at around the same moment in time. The only limitation being how fast i can switch setups from bow to stern or vice versa.

The second attack, say night surface, thats usually at about a 2000-3000 meter distance. You shoot your stern fish on the way out, your range is sometimes around say.... 1600 or so because your shooting at almost a straight 90, which shortens the torpedo track. If its a submerged attack, then its a gamble if late war. Once you shoot your first 4 fish, your gambling on the destroyers not finding you right away, and you have two choices. Ahead 1/3rd and take your time on that turn, but be quiet about it - you'll likley catch the last ship in the colum by the time your stern tubes come to bear, or you can do a quick flank and turn faster, but risk drawing the escorts to you. Which you do, depends on the situation at hand, and just how badly you want to get those stern fish in the water.

[CybrSlydr]

My awesome skills in MS paint! lol. ya i know your just buggin me. We seem to have this friendly "My boat has a bigger *** then your boat!" competition thing going on. :rotfl:

Mine has a taller periscope. :rotfl:

[Ducimus]

Mine has a taller periscope. :rotfl:

Snorkel too.:88)

[Der Eisen-Wal]

I too, love the bigger boats. Currently running an IXB career Summer 1940. Hope to transfer to an IXC in 1941. Love the distant patrols and independent operations. :yep:

Being a Chicago boy, I have visited the U-505 many times, A real war craft. Also visited the U.S.S Pampanito in San Francisco. It is like a 747 in comparison to the U-505.

I too, will buy SH4, but I fear it will be too easy....a permanent happy time for the U.S.N:nope:

I saw the USS Intrepid in New Jersey, and there was also a 60s or 70's nuclear sub there, but the Intrepid was what drew me to Naval interest in the first place. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot to be honest.

Anyone know what the Nuc Sub in NewJersey museum is called?

[Ducimus]

Being a Chicago boy, I have visited the U-505 many times, A real war craft. Also visited the U.S.S Pampanito in San Francisco. It is like a 747 in comparison to the U-505.


How did i miss this. :D


Anyway, to put US Gato class subs in perspective, i think most everyone would agree that in SH3, IX boats are big, and IXD2's are damn near sea cows unto themselves. The kicker is, an IXD2 is slightly smaller then a WW2 US fleet boat!

[Keelbuster]

My awesome skills in MS paint! lol. ya i know your just buggin me. We seem to have this friendly "My boat has a bigger *** then your boat!" competition thing going on. :rotfl:

In the first diagram, i acutally do shoot all 6 torpedos at once... or rather.. i *try* to shoot them all at once. You still have to readjust your solution for the other end of the boat. Notice the angle i put the boat in, thats deliberate. Ive found at that angle to their track, i can shoot all my fish at around the same moment in time. The only limitation being how fast i can switch setups from bow to stern or vice versa.

The second attack, say night surface, thats usually at about a 2000-3000 meter distance. You shoot your stern fish on the way out, your range is sometimes around say.... 1600 or so because your shooting at almost a straight 90, which shortens the torpedo track. If its a submerged attack, then its a gamble if late war. Once you shoot your first 4 fish, your gambling on the destroyers not finding you right away, and you have two choices. Ahead 1/3rd and take your time on that turn, but be quiet about it - you'll likley catch the last ship in the colum by the time your stern tubes come to bear, or you can do a quick flank and turn faster, but risk drawing the escorts to you. Which you do, depends on the situation at hand, and just how badly you want to get those stern fish in the water.
Oh - cool cool. I still think the side escort will detect you when you swing around. Rather - position yourself parallel to the convoy path, turn slightly in (like 10 degrees), fire all fore tubes, turn 20 degrees back away, fire both back tubes, and then run. With your second attack plan, the convoy will swerving at 2-3km after the first 4 hits and the aft shots won't hit unless lucky or FaT/T5. You need to have all six hit within twenty seconds or so. I still haven't mustered the finesse for long range attacks - my manual data collection is not good enough - I find that my long range shots often miss. I always go in - go in or bust.

Kb

[Ducimus]

Oh - cool cool. I still think the side escort will detect you when you swing around.

Yah thats always a concern. It depends on where hes positioned honestly. If hes further back towards the rear/side of the convoy ill use that gap, but come in at an angle from ahead of the convoy to make maximum use of the gap. Of course, this is assuming were talking about an early war night surface attack. Escorts don't see very well, so you can get away with alot.

If its a submerged attack late war, most of the time ill manage to get inside the convoy. If i don't and have to shoot from the side, ill shoot tubes 1 thruogh 4 first. Then, lets say the convoy is moving from the west to the east, and im south of the convoy shooting torpedos in a northernly direction. Ill put the boat hard to starboard so that my stern tubes will come to bear against the lead ship in the convoy, but it wont be within a good gyro angle until the middle or rear of the column goes by, but at least im "painting" the column with my rear tubes in case i see an opportunity. While i start this, since they can't see the periscope for crap, ill watch the escorts to see wheree they're going. If it looks like they're coming directly at me ill abort the attack and go deep. A few times ive pushed it, and while they were circeling aruond at 1200 meters away, i completed my turn and shot tubes 5 and 6 before diving.

They key thing here, is the AI is dumb. If the AI had any clue at all, it doesnt matter what boat your in, you shoot your fish and go deep to get ready for the Pay off. Unfortunatly your rarely made to pay for your transgressions :nope:

The worst depth charging i ever had, was the entry for the 2nd support group in biscay bay when i was using improved convoys. That rocked, i loved it. Boat was smashed to bits, and i think i would have made it had i not run into save game issues. (this was a 2 hour DC fest, boat was damaged but was survivable, and i ran out of time, so i saved thinking i would reload the game later and finish where i left off. WHen i reloaded the game the boat would spin along its long axis and i got the "uboat destroyed" message. Dunno what happened, it was damaged but fine when i saved it. :nope:)

[Keelbuster]

Q: big gyro angles - i read in the manual that accuracy decreases as gyro angle increases. I don't _feel_ like this is the case in the game. That's why I suggest taking shots just shy of 90 and 270 in order to make fore and aft tubes hit at approx the same time. I use this attack on TFs often, because they move so quick that you have no time to swing around fully and get a small gyro. Rather, I fire my fore tubes 'with' the task force at the lead TF element and have my rear tube intercept the next one in line ('against' the TF). By the time they hit I'm well into my turn away. Do you know whether the increase of gyro variabiliity with gyro magnitude is modeled?

Kb

[Ducimus]

Gyro angle is really wierd from different things ive noticed. Now if you want to talk about general angle of the torpedo on the moment it impacts the targeted ship.. THAT angle does matter if you want the topredo to detonate. For this reason alone ill almost always try for a 90 degree shot. Although i will angle it more because at a certain angle, targets between two columns of ships can overlap, increasing your chances to score a hit. Works great when your ahead and to one side of a convoy, you can shoot inside the convoy from the side, and hit ships in the center.

If you want to talk general gyro angle to where your at an extreme angle and the target is moving away from you, to where its *almost* an "up the skirt shot", ive found that if i intend to hit him, ill have to shoot about 5 degrees or so ahead of him.


When it comes to electric torpedos, the gyro indicator LIES. At say 3000 meters against a 9 kt target, if you shoot when the gyroangle indicator says 15, your fish will fall astern of your target. Ive found that a gyro angle of AT LEAST 25 (not 15) seems to be in the ballpark, and even then ill sometimes miss my mark. Its something im still trying to get an exact number on. 25 gyroangle is close, but not 15. Its almost like the TDC is hardcoded for T1a torpedo's. The gyro indictor on those always seems to work fine. Although i do need try those fish at 30 kts (slow settnig) to see if they behave the same as TIIe's or TIIIe's. On the otherhand it could be im not properly resetting the TDC, as ill shoot 2 electric first, followed by two steamers in many attacks.

[Keelbuster]

I'm not talking about the angle that the torpedo hits the target. Let's assume that it's 90. I'm talking about the degree of turn that the torpedo has to make in order to set itself on said 90 degree collision course. The book (i think) talks about large gyro angles having big deviations from intented angle, but I can't verify this from gameplay. When I'm shooting 90 abeam, I don't have a big problem with hitting my intended spot, though at long distances i find I'm lucky to hit the boat at all. I attribute this to poor range and speed calculations on my part. I wonder though, if extreme gyro angles (though still possible - i.e. within the 90 degrees that the torpedo is capable of) will deviate from course to the extent that they have to turn (i.e. turning is a maneuver with variability that is cumulative, integral, across the course of the turn). I seriously doubt that Ubi was keen enough to include this. If not, then the extreme gyro/slight boat angle shots I was describing are just as good as shots with approx zero gyro. Hence you may be able to optimize your strategy some.

Kb

[mike_espo]

How did i miss this. :D


The kicker is, an IXD2 is slightly smaller then a WW2 US fleet boat!

Wow!! :o :huh: Never knew that....:hmm:

[Ducimus]

Wow!! :o :huh: Never knew that....:hmm:

Here's the specs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_class_submarine

http://uboat.net/types/ixd.htm


Gato's a little bit larger, but not by much.

[Manock]

I thought you were going to say Large Breasts.

So I am dissapointed this post did not have any.

[MENTAT]

I saw the USS Intrepid in New Jersey, and there was also a 60s or 70's nuclear sub there, but the Intrepid was what drew me to Naval interest in the first place. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot to be honest.

Anyone know what the Nuc Sub in NewJersey museum is called?

It is USS Growler.

[VipertheSniper]

Wow!! :o :huh: Never knew that....:hmm:

Here's the specs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_class_submarine

http://uboat.net/types/ixd.htm


Gato's a little bit larger, but not by much.

What surprises me tho, is that although the Gato has about 6 times the horsepower of an IXD2 on the surface it's only faster by a mere 1,5 knots...

Anyone here who can explain that?

[Kaleun]

hi,

Same as today, US engines are not as efficient - a 4 or 5 litre engine built in the US today will produced as much horsepower as a European or Japenese designed 2 or 3 litre engine. A lot of US family cars have large engines and go just a fast as their European counterparts that use smaller engines as standard, because the cost of fuel in Europe is far more expensive. Also in Cars and WW2 subs i'm sure weight has something to do with the performance difference - US subs and Cars are/were heavier!!

Kaleun

[U-Bones]

hi,

Same as today, US engines are not as efficient - a 4 or 5 litre engine built in the US today will produced as much horsepower as a European or Japenese designed 2 or 3 litre engine. A lot of US family cars have large engines and go just a fast as their European counterparts that use smaller engines as standard, because the cost of fuel in Europe is far more expensive. Also in Cars and WW2 subs i'm sure weight has something to do with the performance difference - US subs and Cars are/were heavier!!

Kaleun
Another factor - you can throw 100* the horsepower on a given hull - but there is a limit on how fast that hull can be pushed through the water. There are diminishing returns after a certain point - very little gain for lots more energy expended.

Speed on a displacement hull is more a factor of length at waterline than of horsepower.

[Keelbuster]

Speed on a displacement hull is more a factor of length at waterline than of horsepower.

Is it primarily the length (long ways) or the width (the size of the pushing surface) that determines the max speed? I feel like it would be a function of both, but weighted more heavily on the width. I'm new to these things.

Kb

[Der Eisen-Wal]

I saw the USS Intrepid in New Jersey, and there was also a 60s or 70's nuclear sub there, but the Intrepid was what drew me to Naval interest in the first place. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot to be honest.

Anyone know what the Nuc Sub in NewJersey museum is called?
It is USS Growler.
thanks:D

[Sailor Steve]

Speed on a displacement hull is more a factor of length at waterline than of horsepower.

Is it primarily the length (long ways) or the width (the size of the pushing surface) that determines the max speed? I feel like it would be a function of both, but weighted more heavily on the width. I'm new to these things.

Kb
It's called the Fineness Ratio, and it's governed by length versus width (or beam as it's called in a ship). For any given width, the longer the hull the faster it can go. Of course battleships have much longer hulls than destroyers but are always slower. An Iowa class battleship is 887 feet long and has a beam of 103 feet. The best speed any Iowa recorded was after the war, when all the AA guns had been stripped off, and it was just over 35 knots. During the war they made about 32 knots. A Fletcher class destroyer is 376 feet long, but the beam is less than 40 feet, and on a good day they could make 38 knots.

Also, concerning horsepower, even in cars, as HP goes up the speed gained is a function of the square root of the optimal HP. If you have a car that goes 100 mph on 100 HP, doubling the horsepower to 200 will only give an increase to 150 mph; doubling it again to 400 will give about 175 mph. This is why 800 HP Formula 1 cars still top out at about 200 mph. Of course that can be changed with proper gearing, but then the more top speed you get the slower the acceleration will be.

Same is true of ships.

[U-Bones]

Speed on a displacement hull is more a factor of length at waterline than of horsepower.
Is it primarily the length (long ways) or the width (the size of the pushing surface) that determines the max speed? I feel like it would be a function of both, but weighted more heavily on the width. I'm new to these things.

Kb
Edit: Just saw SS's far more complete answer.