map contact information and the quest for realism...

[Viduka]

Just wondering what the general consensus is regarding map contact information and realism.

Currently, i'm using full manual targeting with map contacts on, but have them displaying without the dashes and tails. I've been considering turning contacts off altogether and it got me thinking about what exactly is the most realistic way to go about it?

Is it realistic to assume that the watch officer/navigator/weapons officer (not sure which) would be updating the map that accurately, so that you are able to see the exact location and direction of the ship in real time?

As I have it right now, it's reasonably vague, in that I can't use the dashes or tails to plot with. I have to take bearings and plot the enemy ships course, but if I zoom in I do get the ship icon which is correctly displaying where it's heading and i'm wondering wether or not that's perhaps making it easier than it should be...

[Threadfin]

Is it realistic to assume that the watch officer/navigator/weapons officer (not sure which) would be updating the map that accurately, so that you are able to see the exact location and direction of the ship in real time?



IMO, yes. I played for a long time at 100%, but now play at 88% with MCU enabled. The problem is MCU is always perfectly accurate. But having no plot makes it more difficult than it should be in my opinion.

Ideally, the plot info wouldn't show until the skipper made his observations, and the plot would reflect these observations (and thereby introducing any error into the plot) but I can live with it the way it is.

[GreyOctober]

Well, in a way, you could assume that the officer does a good job updating the map. But because it does it dead accurate and continuouslly even though there isnt a contact update made by the sonar operator i think its not that realistic. I dont use contacts, trails lines etc...nada. I listed to the hydrophone operator, close my eyes get a mental (big) picture of the situation and draw bearing lines for what is currentlly concerning me.

Cheers!

[Sailor Steve]

I would recommend the Assisted Plotting Mod, available here:
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

It leaves the dashed lines for sonar plots, but removes all contacts from the Nav Map, EXCEPT if you pass the cursor over the map you will see dashed circles appear. If you have locked the UZO/Periscope onto a ship, it will show up on the Attack Map. If you click on it the targetted ship will then appear on the Nav Map.

I think that so far it gives the most realistic map views yet. One downside, though: don't plan on using high TC when leaving or entering your home base-you can't see any of the ships on the map, remember? You'll have to learn to enjoy your home port in real time.

[Viduka]

I would recommend the Assisted Plotting Mod, available here:
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

It leaves the dashed lines for sonar plots, but removes all contacts from the Nav Map, EXCEPT if you pass the cursor over the map you will see dashed circles appear. If you have locked the UZO/Periscope onto a ship, it will show up on the Attack Map. If you click on it the targetted ship will then appear on the Nav Map.

I think that so far it gives the most realistic map views yet. One downside, though: don't plan on using high TC when leaving or entering your home base-you can't see any of the ships on the map, remember? You'll have to learn to enjoy your home port in real time.

That sounds like a cool way to go about it, i'll give it a go. The above site seems to be down at the moment though, is it available anywhere else?

[Sailor Steve]

I just clicked to double-check the link, and it works fine for me.

[gouldjg]

Hi Viduka

I was exactly like you.

1. Plotting everything was too time consuming as in real life you would be just relaying periscope info vocally to Nav officer.

2. Having all shown is just too simple and fast,

The assisted plotting may be your thing. I think it is the one I made :doh: but it stemed from others ideas.

It was in a major mod but many folks could not understand it and got confused so it got withdrawn I think (long time ago I forget my mods).

Basically you have to hover your mouse in the rough location and then you can place a marker for plotting purposes because a grey circle will appear whilst you are hovering over the rough location of ship. With the nomograph this is great IMO.

The sonar lines were made to dashes so you got a rough but not accurate idea of ranges. Again this made DD evasion a tad more difficult and tense.

[CptGrayWolf]

I would recommend the Assisted Plotting Mod, available here:
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

It leaves the dashed lines for sonar plots, but removes all contacts from the Nav Map, EXCEPT if you pass the cursor over the map you will see dashed circles appear. If you have locked the UZO/Periscope onto a ship, it will show up on the Attack Map. If you click on it the targetted ship will then appear on the Nav Map.

I think that so far it gives the most realistic map views yet. One downside, though: don't plan on using high TC when leaving or entering your home base-you can't see any of the ships on the map, remember? You'll have to learn to enjoy your home port in real time.

Just what I was looking for Sailor Steve! :up:

[Viduka]

I still can't get that link to work.

If I try to go to http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/ it tries to open the page:

http://mpgtext.net/u-boot

and then says page cannot be found. (Tried refreshing).

If I go to http://u-boat.realsimulation.com/ I get a picture gallery listing.

:88)

Any chance of someone posting a direct link to the mod?

Thanks.

[Sailor Steve]

How very weird. I clicked on your copied link for http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/ and got right in.

Don't know what to say.

[Viduka]

Hmm. I'm using IE 6, are you using an alternative?

[Sailor Steve]

Not me. IE6 here too.

[squigian]

Direct link, third from top.

http://server3.realsimulation.com/u-boot/SH3Mods/

I am using Firefox, btw.

[Viduka]

Thanks mate. No probs with that one. :up:

[Viduka]

Hi Viduka

I was exactly like you.

1. Plotting everything was too time consuming as in real life you would be just relaying periscope info vocally to Nav officer.

2. Having all shown is just too simple and fast,

The assisted plotting may be your thing. I think it is the one I made :doh: but it stemed from others ideas.

It was in a major mod but many folks could not understand it and got confused so it got withdrawn I think (long time ago I forget my mods).

Basically you have to hover your mouse in the rough location and then you can place a marker for plotting purposes because a grey circle will appear whilst you are hovering over the rough location of ship. With the nomograph this is great IMO.

The sonar lines were made to dashes so you got a rough but not accurate idea of ranges. Again this made DD evasion a tad more difficult and tense.

Thanks for the reply gouldjg.

I've installed it and have been playing around with it a bit. It definately made plotting much more challenging/realistic and as a result more enjoyable.

The one problem I did have with it was the hydrophone lines. They are so tiny and sparse that it makes it very hard get an idea of the enemy ships direction, let alone it's course and range for plotting.

I'm not sure exactly how accurately information was able to be gathered in real life with the hydrophones. Previously with the longer more visable lines I had been able to do vague plots if I was underwater. The distances were sometimes a bit off but you could plot out the general direction and speed of the enemy ship well enough to make an accurate enough approach.

I guess what would be ideal would be a compromise between the two. In other words, something a little bit more visable than how it is with the plotting mod, but not as accurate as it is normally.

I'd make modifications to it myself but I wouldn't have a clue where to start. :doh:

[gouldjg]

I will get back to you tommorow and see if I remember how to do it.

I think I downloaded a free program called infranview.

It lets you look at the drawings and edit some also. The sonar line was not that hard. I will see if I can whip a better version up for you.

[Viduka]

That would be fantastic :up: I definately urge anyone who finds the current map contact info a bit too easy to give this mod a go.

[gouldjg]

I have hit a small poblem with the contact line.

I remembered why I did it in such small dash now.

1. I wanted rid of the tails from ships

2. If I was to make it longer it would have to be at its full lengh because there would be silly breaks in the line.

Did you backup your original contact line from your last version?
It may be best to decide whether you want a full line or the dashes.

I always just have the dashes because the full line gives exact range.

Let me know what you want,

I have just tried to get text instead of Line i.e. Surface contact but it seems immpossible and would probably be messy in a convoy situation.

[Sailor Steve]

I like the dashed lines for the same reason: the solid lines give exact range. I think in real life it would be all the plotting officer could do just to listen to the soundman's updates and put a dot on the map showing direction. If the captain is in the conning tower at the attack scope he wouldn't even be able to look at the map. Realism probably means never leaving the attack scope, and just remembering what the soundman calls out.

When escaping destroyers I'm sure they did it by listening for the propellors-the map was likely almost never used except to plot intercept courses.

[gouldjg]

I like the dashed lines for the same reason: the solid lines give exact range. I think in real life it would be all the plotting officer could do just to listen to the soundman's updates and put a dot on the map showing direction. If the captain is in the conning tower at the attack scope he wouldn't even be able to look at the map. Realism probably means never leaving the attack scope, and just remembering what the soundman calls out.

When escaping destroyers I'm sure they did it by listening for the propellors-the map was likely almost never used except to plot intercept courses.

:yep: :yep: :yep:

[Viduka]

Thanks for your efforts gouldjg.

I think you guys are probably right about the amount of information that is being shown with the hydrophone dots. I feel you are right in that the majority of plotting would've been done using the periscopes once the enemy got close enough.

I didn't actually back up the files that contain the hydrophone displays :doh: but i'm not too worried about it. I think I can get used to the small dots, it will be a good challenge :up: and much more realistic than having solid lines that are giving up too much information.

If you manage to come up with any variations such as the one you were trying with text etc, let me know. I'd be very interested.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I have a question.


What file do I have to edit to get the tails from the ships back on?

I was in a hurry to try this out and forgot to backup the files

Thanks,
Johnny

[gouldjg]

I have a question.


What file do I have to edit to get the tails from the ships back on?

I was in a hurry to try this out and forgot to backup the files

Thanks,
Johnny


If I am not mistaken, it is the contline in the menu/gui folder but I may be wrong as it has been ages since I looked at this stuff.

Now for your information, I have downloaded infranview to view these and someone posted me a link to a free editing program called gimp 2.

They are both free and google search will get them.

I have to get used to them again and am limited in time as on other projects plus real life.

However my first immpressions of Gimp is that if learned, it can be great for editing these lines and other stuff. I was trying to replace a few things with text or have a pepper as a torpedo icon (for fun). I was just fiddling and ran out of time to explore further. Maybe mid june will allow me to really dig deep into possibles.

However I am like you guys, new to all this modding stuff but sometimes it is good having a fiddle so I suggest you just have a look and see what you kick up.

There was probably a way to improve current set up but still get that realistic feel to plotting. I was going to replace the circle with a eyeball icon etc. etc

Good luck with it.

[JohnnyBlaze]

thanks for the response. gouldjg.

tho I didnt have a backup of the file, but I took it from the GW directory and replaced it so problem solved.

Thanks for the advice