cloning

[STEED]

Clone to take on natural rivals
The world's first equine clone will challenge naturally bred runners next month in Nevada.
Idaho Gem is a mule created three years ago by cloning DNA taken from a foetus produced by the parents of a champion racer.

It will race against another mule clone and a full field of non-clones.

The two clones have been separated for two years, so their performances could offer insight into the role of the environment in development.


We don't know if they are going to have... the attitude to want to run and want to compete and want to win
Don Jacklin

The University of Idaho scientists who cloned Idaho Gem also produced two other cloned mules in 2002 from the same DNA.
One of those two, Idaho Star, will compete against Idaho Gem along with naturally-bred mules in Winnemucca, Nevada, and on the California racing circuit this summer.

Analysing how the clones perform against each other will give scientists information on how variables like diet and training regimes affect developing racing mules.

Those behind the race say that just because they carry the DNA of past champions, there is no guarantee the clones will be successful.

Nature vs nurture

"We know they have the genetic capability to be great," said Don Jacklin, president of the American Mule Racing Association, who leases Idaho Gem from the University of Idaho for about $1,000 (£533) a year.

"We don't know if they are going to have... the attitude to want to run and want to compete and want to win."

Mules are produced by breeding a female horse with a male donkey and are usually infertile.


Gordon Woods, the lead scientist on the University of Idaho project that created the clones was keen to emphasise there was nothing abnormal about the cloned mules.
Dr Woods told the Associated Press that the mule cloning project also provided insights into human cancer research and, in particular, calcium's possible role in tumour development.

Trainers have been putting the two clones through their paces at a track in Stockton, California.

Mr Jacklin said he hoped cloning technology would eventually be embraced by the horse racing industry as another breeding tool.

But The Jockey Club, thoroughbred racing's governing body in North America, keeps an extremely tight rein on breeding practices.

Only natural breeding methods are allowed, and club rules explicitly prohibit not only cloning but artificial insemination of any kind.

Inj the UK, cloning is banned in horse racing but could be used in competitions such as show jumping.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/5004820.stm

Published: 2006/05/22 12:42:31 GMT

© BBC MMVI



Animal cloning shall always continual the problem is sooner or latter the first Human will be cloned and that will raise many questions. And the big question have we stepped over the mark, once we cross the boundary we have left are self’s open to anything.

[The Noob]

YES!

Lets start to Clone! :up:

[mapuc]

Yea! Could be fun to see lots of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad running around :rotfl: :rotfl:

Markus

[GreyOctober]

I for one am for cloning but ONLY for organ harvesting. This could save countless lives of people who are on waiting lists and it could mean an endless supply of organs (in theory).

I am against human cloning as a mean to copy a whole person. Im not sure yet why im against it since im not very religeous :hmm: Maybe because, through repeaded cloning and genetic engineering it would lead to the perfect human with no defects (personallity and phisically wise), a super-human set apart from the rest which im quite sure will not be accepted. We as humans are set apart by individuallity, each and every one of us is unique and thats the beauty of it.

[TLAM Strike]

Since any clone would develop a totally different personality than the original I see no problem.

[August]

Since any clone would develop a totally different personality than the original I see no problem.

They might be different in personality but not in their genetic makeup and that's, imo, the big problem.

[CCIP]

I don't really see the problem; I think this will eventually be done - that's what all of this seems to be leading up to, anyway.

[Perilscope]

Well I can always clone myself with the pretext that if a major war starts, I will send him instead of me ;) ... if the clone doesn't end up sending me that is… :nope:

[Bertgang]

I'm strongly against.

Of course, some development in that way seem promising (spare parts from our body instead of from a poor cadaver, as example), but I am quite sure that, once allowed and possible for excellent reasons, someone will use this tech really badly.

[Oberon]

Ugh, this is a real grey area. Cloning, at face value, seems like a great idea, the ideal way of creating the perfect race, no defects and no faults. Body harvesting, making organs to be cut out and put in other people, it's gonna solve a helluva lot of problems.

But when I look above at what I've just written, 'The perfect race' I just have nasty flashbacks to history lessons about other people who've declared themselves on a mission to make the perfect race.
Although I'm in favour of scientific progress, human cloning...doesn't seem such a good idea to me, not until we've done research into the human genome to remove that part of the human species that creates people such as Kurt Blome and Siegfried Ruff.

[STEED]

Indeed it’s a grey area all sort of things come to mind like a super race are we heading towards a (BLADERUNNER) situation, granted yes that was a sci-fi film which super humans were created with out emotions and a four year life span.

We are already tinkering around the edges and when we head strait into the deep end what kind of frame work will be in place, what kind of safeguards as well once we cross that line. We will be in the position to open all kinds of doors and some of them will have nasty things behind them.

[Dowly]

If we clone animals, why not humans? After all, we are animals too. :yep:

[August]

I don't really see the problem; I think this will eventually be done - that's what all of this seems to be leading up to, anyway.

The problem is that, without some genetic diversity, the first killer bug which comes along would wipe out the entire population.

Take the black plague of Europe for example. If a person inherited a particular gene from one parent they got sick but rarely died. If a person got the gene from both parents they didn't get sick at all. But if, like many in Europe at the time, they didn't get that gene from either parent then they died if were exposed to the disease.

[kiwi_2005]

I dont think i could handle another Me :o

Ones enough thanks very much :lol:

[CB..]

Well I can always clone myself with the pretext that if a major war starts, I will send him instead of me ;) ... if the clone doesn't end up sending me that is… :nope:

reckon that's the start and end of the argument right there---if we create a clone we automatically assume it has less rights than us--where-as the clone may well disagree--as pointed out this creates as many problems as it solves--if indeed it solves any problems at all---if we create clones purely for body parts and remove any intelligence at all then that kinda proves the point--

are we really 100% sure what we really want isn't going to turn out to be a race of slaves ?--it's a bit like IMO the desire to create artificail intelligence--fine as long as it accepts it has no rights what so ever--which isn't very intelligent--same with genetic screening etc---are we 100% sure we know what are good qualitys and what are bad?--great lets make workers who never get fed up of low wages or poor conditions---save our selves a whole lot of bother---unless of course you happen to be one of those workers --but then you won't care--argghhhhh endless
i wouldn't trust the human race to do the right thing with this one in a million years--that's if there even is a right thing which is doubt full

[TteFAboB]

NUTS!

I see in the future the threat of aggressive Islam will be replaced by Scientology.

[Oberon]

NUTS!

I see in the future the threat of aggressive Islam will be replaced by Scientology.

That's gonna put a lot of people out of a job :nope: ;)

[Skybird]

Anyone seriously believing that a society accepting cloning sooner or later will accept designer babies and slavery as well? There opens an abyss of critical ethical problems. what is human, who is human? what is a life worth for a human, what not? Industrial exploitation? will the need of a certain class of workers feed back on defining who will be included in the defintion of being a human being, and who will be exluded? What will the latter be reagrded than? An animal? Anti-human? Replicant?

But a materialistic world will learn to ignore such questions. Of course they will erode limiting laws and rules. Of course this will be considered more and more acceptable. Of course parents will design their babies as a blueprint fist. Of course there will be cloned slaves. Human history shows that in the face of new inventions or possebilities, man does not practice self-restriction.

[Skybird]

NUTS!

I see in the future the threat of aggressive Islam will be replaced by Scientology.

That's gonna put a lot of people out of a job :nope: ;)

Seen the movie GATTACA?

[Oberon]

NUTS!

I see in the future the threat of aggressive Islam will be replaced by Scientology.

That's gonna put a lot of people out of a job :nope: ;)

Seen the movie GATTACA?

:yep: :yep: :yep:

Though not all of it, due to a badly timed power cut... :damn:

[Onkel Neal]

We already have too many people on this planet, why start making unnecessary copies?

[Skybird]

Probably the most original comment against cloning I ever heared! :lol:

[STEED]

Knowing what we are like, once you take away the restraints we are asking for trouble.

[TLAM Strike]

Has anyone seen Space: Above and Beyond? Were going to need all the cheap soldiers when our AI servants rebel and release a sterility plague on Earth not to mention when Aliens invade our space colonies. :yep:

In the foxhole it don’t matter if a man’s a Tank or Natural Born. ;)

[DeepSix]

I can handle stem cell research, but not outright cloning. Way too many ethical issues. I like living in a world without alphas and betas, thanks.

[Iceman]

We may have the knowledge to do it but not the wisdom to understand what power it is that we have discovered.

[STEED]

We may have the knowledge to do it but not the wisdom to understand what power it is that we have discovered.

Very good point Iceman. :yep:

[DeepSix]

We may have the knowledge to do it but not the wisdom to understand what power it is that we have discovered.

Exactly. Another one of those "tree of knowledge" things that we try to eat and wind up getting too far ahead of ourselves.

[STEED]

We should pull back from the edge of the cliff and think first before jumping over the edge.

[Umfuld]

I'm all for organ transplants. I could use a new set of lungs myself. ::hack::

But what do you do? Make a human body without a head? Otherwise, it would still be murder.


Yeah, not sure why anyone would want to. Kind of like climbing Mt. Everest. That's great that you did, but what was the purpose?

Just because we can? I don't know why it's even an issue. Besides for organs, which may not be possible because a clone would be a person too, why?

Maybe if you could grow a human heart in a pig or something, okay. I'll take a human/pig heart if you've got one. But why clone a person?

Just have sex, you silly people.

[Oberon]

Just have sex, you silly people.

That's a major vote in favour of natural reproduction over cloning. :up:

[STEED]

I'm all for organ transplants. I could use a new set of lungs myself. ::hack::

But what do you do?

Well here in the UK you can carry an organ donor card so when you snuff it your organs go to some one else.

[joea]

Just have sex, you silly people.

That's a major vote in favour of natural reproduction over cloning. :up:

Seconded.

No really what is the advantage of cloning?

Why?

[TLAM Strike]

What about if you were setting up a colony on Mars or someplace else farther away from Earth? A generation of clones would increase the workforce and allow the colony to maintain a balance to the gene pool preventing any one family line for dominating (bad for the future). :hmm:

[DeepSix]

What about if you were setting up a colony on Mars or someplace else farther away from Earth? A generation of clones would increase the workforce and allow the colony to maintain a balance to the gene pool preventing any one family line for dominating (bad for the future). :hmm:

Egad! It's Chairman Yang of the Hive! Seize him! Seize him! :P

[Iku-turso]

We already have too many people on this planet, why start making unnecessary copies?

:up: Thats right

[Konovalov]

We already have too many people on this planet, why start making unnecessary copies?

Words that make perfect sense. I'm with you there. :yep:

Cool, my 2500th post. Time to celebrate with a swig from my silly World Cup Football mug. :smug:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/BenKonovalov/P1010686.jpg

[joea]

Woohoo congrats mate. :-j :up:

[Konovalov]

Thanks. :D

It's been a long hard slog over the last three and a half years. Some people like Steed and Kapitan make it look like a walk in the park. ;)

[The Noob]

If we clone animals, why not humans? After all, we are animals too. :yep:

I Agree. We are nothing better that a Sheep.

Seriously! :yep:

[STEED]

Cool, my 2500th post. Time to celebrate with a swig from my silly World Cup Football mug. :smug:


It's been a long hard slog over the last three and a half years. Some people like Steed and Kapitan make it look like a walk in the park. ;)

Well you can join the Kap & STEED school for posting. :D

[STEED]

Back on topic.

I am against human cloning because it’s a waste of money and time. The money would be better spent in more productive areas of reaserch.

[TLAM Strike]

What about if you were setting up a colony on Mars or someplace else farther away from Earth? A generation of clones would increase the workforce and allow the colony to maintain a balance to the gene pool preventing any one family line for dominating (bad for the future). :hmm: Egad! It's Chairman Yang of the Hive! Seize him! Seize him! :P

I am against human cloning because it’s a waste of money and time. The money would be better spent in more productive areas of reaserch. Ahhh its CEO Morgan! :o Lets for a Pact of Brotherhood, invaded him and take his money! :rock:

:rotfl:

[STEED]

What the heck do we need clones for anyway?

[TLAM Strike]

What the heck do we need clones for anyway?Well what if you and your partner were both infertile or incapable and wanted to have a child? Cloning using the DNA of both could help in this matter. Now this isn’t “Cloning” in the strictest sense but as I understand it the technique is basically the same. Obviously we need to learn how to do this with the DNA of one person first before we learn how to do it with two or more.

[STEED]

The planet is over populated as it is with out adding clones to it.

[The Avon Lady]

The planet is over populated as it is with out adding clones to it.
20 million sterile clones coming right up! :|\

[DeepSix]

...Ahhh its CEO Morgan! :o Lets for a Pact of Brotherhood, invaded him and take his money! :rock:

:rotfl:

I see... and what do you offer in return? Research data, perhaps? I find energy credits don't go as far as they're claimed to.

Lal out.
;)

[TLAM Strike]

...Ahhh its CEO Morgan! :o Lets for a Pact of Brotherhood, invaded him and take his money! :rock:

:rotfl:

I see... and what do you offer in return? Research data, perhaps? I find energy credits don't go as far as they're claimed to.

Lal out.
;)

I will refrain from telling your whimpering followers who you really are!

http://img1.imageshack.us/img1/3641/lalcolor0ml.jpghttp://img1.imageshack.us/img1/5953/osamabinladen7go.jpg
Brother Lal Circa 2060 | "Brother Lal" Circa 2001

Thought trimming your beard would save you huh?

:-j

[DeepSix]

The similarity *is* startling, is it not? :D

[TLAM Strike]

The similarity *is* startling, is it not? :D
Possibly not as startling as Yang's doppelganger:
http://img1.imageshack.us/img1/7835/yangcolor5rn.jpghttp://img1.imageshack.us/img1/8935/sulugeorgetakei1700ga.jpg

:lol:

[DeepSix]

:rotfl: Damn I needed that. :rotfl: Thanks. :lol:

[Perilscope]

The similarity *is* startling, is it not? :D
Indeed very similar, similar that in each picture the ugly one is on the right side. :D