S.E.T.I. just isn't a good idea.

[Excalibur Bane]

I don't think the guys that thought up the idea put much thought into the fact that if we do run into an intelligent species they may not be friendly.

It just isn't a good idea to be sending out a message with that much information on our planet and what not. We might as well be painting a galactic bullseye on the planet. "Greetings from Earth, please come and conquer us." God help us if a highly advanced race does pick pick up our info and decides to conquer the planet or just wipe us out.

We're pretty much defenseless against any kind of space or orbital threat. They could just park in orbit, bombard our major cities into ruins and come down at their leisure to mop up the survivors. Or better yet, just use the data we handed to them to develop a nice biological weapon to wipe us all out in one clean stroke.

Paranoid? Yeah, probably but that was just something I was thinking about. ;)

[kiwi_2005]

Yeah i join SETI awhile back lasted a few months and stop running there software i think it was more a curiosty than anything else. You DL this program that runs in the background and listens out for radio waves in outer space alot of funny ppl join up theres support groups and we're practically all mad lol, i joined a group called "The Knights Who Say Wi"! a monty python support group. Ended up quiting cause of the programing running was slowing down my gaming.

[TLAM Strike]

I don't think the guys that thought up the idea put much thought into the fact that if we do run into an intelligent species they may not be friendly.

It just isn't a good idea to be sending out a message with that much information on our planet and what not. We might as well be painting a galactic bullseye on the planet. "Greetings from Earth, please come and conquer us." God help us if a highly advanced race does pick pick up our info and decides to conquer the planet or just wipe us out.

We're pretty much defenseless against any kind of space or orbital threat. They could just park in orbit, bombard our major cities into ruins and come down at their leisure to mop up the survivors. Or better yet, just use the data we handed to them to develop a nice biological weapon to wipe us all out in one clean stroke.

Paranoid? Yeah, probably but that was just something I was thinking about. ;)

Well then you better make sure every TV station, cell phone provider etc shuts down business because all that gets sent in to space. Don’t blame SETI for sending a greeting to other worlds when everything FOX puts on TV is being sent to other worlds. Hell people on Alpha Centauri just learned that Firefly was canceled, I wouldn’t blame them if they decided to invade- heck I think I would help.

[CB..]

yup i agree --putting our genetic code on a probe and sending it out into space was an act of unimaginable stupidity..it might be found by some one like us...no honestly...it might---it's all feast or famine with science fiction--either its terrible monsters or its heavenly angelic beings..we should have used the one species we KNOW exists in this universe as a reference point for the sort of chaps and chapesses the old galactic spiral tends to produce and developed a cloaking device for the planet and all our signals..

[Skybird]

If someone out there needs our little message in a bottle to find us, he probbaly is npot advanced enough to reach us. while those being able to reach and conquer us, probably do not need our radio beacon to find us. Out there it certainly works waaaayyyyyyy different than in our political nonsens shows between nations.

Just think of supernovas. That should give you an idea on galactic decision making. :sunny:

[bradclark1]

What they'll do is keep away because they don't want anything to do with a nut job planet like earth.

[XabbaRus]

Personally I think modern TV and radio are doing humanity a favour.

Our first line of defence.

Would you bother coming to have a look if you were getting daily repeats of Friends or Will and Grace? Nah I think smart aliens will stay away.

[TLAM Strike]

Personally I think modern TV and radio are doing humanity a favour.

Our first line of defence.

Would you bother coming to have a look if you were getting daily repeats of Friends or Will and Grace? Nah I think smart aliens will stay away.

Or they might catch an episode of Stargate and think we may seem primitive but we really have all sorts of advanced alien technology and we would totally kick their asses if they invaded.

[DeepSix]

... Don’t blame SETI for sending a greeting to other worlds when everything FOX puts on TV is being sent to other worlds....

That's true.... And scary to think what sort of ideas "they" could form about us as a result.

Two or three thoughts (somewhat unrelated to each other):

1) We are so arrogant. We tell ourselves we're so damn smart and that we've come so far since the middle ages when people thought Earth was the center of the universe. Well, nothing's changed. The universe is far too big for us to be the only intelligent life in it, and yet that's what mainstream science insists.

2) The surest sign that intelligent life is out there is that none of it has ever contacted us. :D I can't believe how much TV time gets devoted to the absurdity of UFO conspiracies.

As for SETI - a noble project; I wish them well. The SETI@home thing was a great idea; wish they could get more money and support from official circles, but I quit running that blasted software, too. Absolutely kills your processor speed.

Contact would be a great accomplishment - too bad our planet is going about it like a drunk frat boy hitting on girls. If life is out there, hopefully it will wait until we've sobered up, matured, and developed a plan before it responds to us.

[Takeda Shingen]

Or perhaps they simply do not exist.

I am certain that this will ruffle some feathers. Still: Everyone here knows that I have never advocated any type of religion, nor does anyone know what my religious views (if I so have them) are. Regardless, I do find it interesting that a number of the members here who would readily disregard the existence of a supreme being or creator do eagerly accept the idea of little green men that monitor our broadcast transmissions and ocassionally decend to Earth, rectally probing the populace at will in an effort to study, and ultimately, defeat or enslave or eradicate us.

[TLAM Strike]

Or perhaps they simply do not exist.

I am certain that this will ruffle some feathers. Still: Everyone here knows that I have never advocated any type of religion, nor does anyone know what my religious views (if I so have them) are. Regardless, I do find it interesting that a number of the members here who would readily disregard the existence of a supreme being or creator do eagerly accept the idea of little green men that monitor our broadcast transmissions and ocassionally decend to Earth, rectally probing the populace at will in an effort to study, and ultimately, defeat or enslave or eradicate us. There is one difference between Aliens and God. We have proof there is life in the universe, us. ;)

[Takeda Shingen]

There is one difference between Aliens and God. We have proof there is life in the universe, us. ;)

Unfortunately, there is no proof regarding how it got here, how it started, when it started, or where it came from. Therefore, God maintains parity with Marvin the Martian.

[CB..]

If life is out there, hopefully it will wait until we've sobered up, matured, and developed a plan before it responds to us.

they know full well when it comes to new frontiers the human race ALLWAYS comes "in peace" (TM) armed to the teeth with absolute contempt for the indigenous population..like i say i hope to hell and back again who ever is out there are not like us...other wise we really are screwed..he he!! any way what ever happens will be a shock-- if we develop vaiable large scale military space travel BEFORE we mature then we can expect to be well and trully censored..

[TLAM Strike]

There is one difference between Aliens and God. We have proof there is life in the universe, us. ;)

Unfortunately, there is no proof regarding how it got here, how it started, when it started, or where it came from. Therefore, God maintains parity with Marvin the Martian. How you figure that? :doh:

One observable example of existence trumps something with no evidence of existence at all. :yep:

We have no definitive proof as to how the universe got here, how it started, when it started or where it came from, only theories. Does that mean the universe doesn’t exist? Heck no because we can see it does.

Klang the Klingon 1, God 0 ;)

[Spoon 11th]

putting our genetic code on a probe and sending it out into space
When did this happen?

[TLAM Strike]

putting our genetic code on a probe and sending it out into space
When did this happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

[DeepSix]

There is one difference between Aliens and God. We have proof there is life in the universe, us. ;)

Unfortunately, there is no proof regarding how it got here, how it started, when it started, or where it came from. Therefore, God maintains parity with Marvin the Martian. How you figure that? :doh:

One observable example of existence trumps something with no evidence of existence at all. :yep:

We have no definitive proof as to how the universe got here, how it started, when it started or where it came from, only theories. Does that mean the universe doesn’t exist? Heck no because we can see it does.

Klang the Klingon 1, God 0 ;)

Wait a minute. With respect, assuming God needs to prove His existence in order to justify belief in Him is pretty conceited, too, in my book. This is what I meant when I posted about humanity's arrogance. I can't prove it, obviously, but I firmly believe that the universe was not created merely for our amusement or even for our edification. What we know of it is purely a product of what we are able to perceive. Simply because something is unperceived does not mean that it does not exist. Likewise, simply because something *is* perceived doesn't mean it exists, either. We see something and call it the universe, but that doesn't mean that it's possible to know everything about it. It merely means that when we speak of the universe we're all working with a common idea and talking about the same thing. It means we have a sort of shared language of ideas; it does not mean there are no other languages or ideas.

My own belief is that God is perfect and that humanity's perception is seriously flawed, thanks to our own presumption. God wouldn't be much of an almighty anything if He felt compelled to prove His existence. That would be God with an inferiority complex. I do not and cannot know the mind of God, but I do not believe He is bound or subject to human limitations, perceptions, or conditions. The strongest "proof" of God's existence, IMO, is the lack of what humans consider proof. Belief in God is a matter of faith, not knowledge, and faith would be worthless if it depended on empirical evidence for value.

Anyhow. I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that science and religion do not need to be mutually exclusive, despite the many efforts from advocates (or detractors) of each to the contrary.

Got to go now; my brain hurts. :doh:

[TLAM Strike]

From my perspective it boils down to this, which is more plausible? There is a all powerful being no one can perceive that will if your good (according to some arbitrary set of laws) will grant you eternal life or if your bad condemn you to eternal torture
Or
there are other lifeforms like us somewhere out there they may or may not have visited Earth to learn about us and/or sodomize the occasional farmer.


Now to complete my mission and make your brain go from hurting to just plain exploding, God is a being not of this world (he created it occording to some but did not originate here) therefore by definition he is an alien.

Sorry to go all Star Trek on you at the end but you left me no choice. :lol:

[DeepSix]

From my perspective it boils down to this, which is more plausible? There is a all powerful being no one can perceive that will if your good (according to some arbitrary set of laws) will grant you eternal life or if your bad condemn you to eternal torture ...

For me, the point of belief in God is neither to find reward nor to avoid punishment. It's about intrinsic value, and I mean no offense but I think if somebody can only look at it in terms of extrinsic factors (i.e., heaven or hell), then one is missing out on quite a lot. For example, does a student work to get A's for their own sake or simply so the parents will bestow a monetary reward (assuming, of course, that the student wants A's for any reason at all)? Incidentally, I do not believe God's laws are arbitrary, but I think that debate is farther off topic than I've already gotten (sorry about that, btw).

Now to complete my mission and make your brain go from hurting to just plain exploding, God is a being not of this world (he created it occording to some but did not originate here) therefore by definition he is an alien.

Sorry to go all Star Trek on you at the end but you left me no choice. :lol:

I like Star Trek, too, but my head doesn't explode quite so easily. ;) As far as God being an alien, think whatever you want; I won't argue.... But I do believe God exists outside of the universe and is thus beyond being the same as any lifeform within it, alien or otherwise.

Sorry to go all Dungeons and Dragons on you but you left me no choice. ;)

[TLAM Strike]

But I do believe God exists outside of the universe and is thus beyond being the same as any lifeform within it, alien or otherwise.

Sorry to go all Dungeons and Dragons on you but you left me no choice. ;) Wouldn't that just make him more Alien?

I guess I'm going Space: Above and Beyond on you now. :lol:

[DeepSix]

But I do believe God exists outside of the universe and is thus beyond being the same as any lifeform within it, alien or otherwise.

Sorry to go all Dungeons and Dragons on you but you left me no choice. ;) Wouldn't that just make him more Alien?

Not to my way of thinking, no; it would make God God. Absolutely unique, in other words.

I guess I'm going Space: Above and Beyond on you now. :lol:

:lol: Yeah, but you see I have built a Dyson shell around your argument, and am thus capable of capturing its total output for my own purposes.:D

But, seriously, round we could go in circles about it all of course.

[Takeda Shingen]

One observable example of existence trumps something with no evidence of existence at all. :yep:

Agreed. We know:

1. The Isrealites were enslaved in Eygpt and Babylon, and were later overrun by the Romans.

2. Jesus of Nazareth was excecuted via crucifixion circa 33 AD.

3. The disciples of Jesus existed, and were excecuted.

4. Saul of Tarsis was converted on the road to Damascus. He was also excecuted later.

5. A large number of writers were around to see a whole bunch of events, and wrote down what allegedly happened.

These people were real, just as life on Earth is real.

Kang and Kodos 1, Jesus of Nazareth 1.

[OneShot]

Kang and Kodos 1, Jesus of Nazareth 1

But was Jesus the Son of God or only a very very charismatic mortal who had some good ideas on how to make the world a better place? There is evidence for both, but as Winston Churchil said (well close enough for me) ... do not trust the evidence you have not tampered yourself with.

As far as Aliens go, well considering the number or stars out there in our own little galaxy not to mention the galaxies we know of (with their own big number of stars) the statistics definitly favour Adam the Atlantean (or was it Alec the Asgaard?).

Anyway, you can believe in both and you might be right in both occasions ... the proof is out there.

[CB..]

oops

[Takeda Shingen]

But was Jesus the Son of God or only a very very charismatic mortal who had some good ideas on how to make the world a better place?

Irrelevant. We know that there was such an individual. This is one step further than E. T. All that we have to show for alien life are theories. In the case of the latter, no, the proof is not out there, only those theories.

[OneShot]

Actually there is not that much "hard" evidence for the person Jesus of Nazareth (tho don't ask what we do have, I have no clue - I just know its damn little) ... still that would be more then we have on extraterrestial life(forms) - in your eyes.

Anyway, as far as the original topic goes, considering that the electromangetic waves with all the TV Shows and whatnot travel an awful long time to actually get out of the Solar System (not to mention reach a star/planet outside, I would say unless somebody already sits on our doorstep we are fairly safe for the near (and longer) future from aliens who might get upset by re-runs of Friends ...

Is it good to send out information ... well first of all somebody/something has to receive it (he needs the means), second he/she/it has to decipher it and get the meaning, third he has to give a damn about it and last but not least, if he actually gives a damn (regardless of good or bad) he has to have the means to travel from his planet to our planet.

There are lots of IFs in there.

I just hope that IF we ever make contact to some extraterestial race that we a) have settled our own problems first - ie those petty political disputes with all the attached problems, b) mature enough to not piss them off right away and c) they are not interested in enslaving or eradicating us.

[TLAM Strike]

But was Jesus the Son of God or only a very very charismatic mortal who had some good ideas on how to make the world a better place?

Irrelevant. We know that there was such an individual. This is one step further than E. T. All that we have to show for alien life are theories. In the case of the latter, no, the proof is not out there, only those theories.There are a lot of people on Earth right now who claim to be the Son of God or the messenger of god, or the voice of god, or god, some of these people have gain massive influence and power and a few of them will be executed at some point. Do they increase the odds in favor of the existence of God? Nope. Why should examples from one book written thousands of years ago do too?

Also if God exists “outside of the universe and is thus beyond being the same as any lifeform within it” that just means he is a lifeform not yet categorized. If God were a being not of this world no matter how powerful or exotic he would still be an Alien by the very definition of the word.

Barry the Breen 2; The Almighty Extraterrestrial 1

[Takeda Shingen]

Actually there is not that much "hard" evidence for the person Jesus of Nazareth (tho don't ask what we do have, I have no clue - I just know its damn little) ... still that would be more then we have on extraterrestial life(forms) - in your eyes.

Cornelius Tacitus, Gaius Suetonius Tranquillius, Flavius Josephus, The Talmud, and even Pilate's reports to Rome verify Jesus. This is more evidence than we have for the existence of Sun Tzu, who we would readily accept as a historical figure, despite the fact that none of the writings attributed to him have ever been traced back to his hand, as they were compiled by a number of subsequent figures. In short, Jesus exsisted. He may or may not have been God, but he walked the Earth. So did Mohammed. So did David. So did Solomon. The list goes on.

Now, compare this to the argument for extra-terrestrial life: We have never seen an alien, however it stands to reason that, given the vastness of the cosmos, we are not alone. This is held as proof despite the fact that we have never observed, nor have been contacted by such beings. This has been my point: There is more fact supporting the claims of various western religions than those for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It is not my personal view; it is not simply 'in my eyes'; it is fact. You simply don't like what the facts are telling you.

[Takeda Shingen]

There are a lot of people on Earth right now who claim to be the Son of God or the messenger of god, or the voice of god, or god, some of these people have gain massive influence and power and a few of them will be executed at some point. Do they increase the odds in favor of the existence of God? Nope. Why should examples from one book written thousands of years ago do too?

Also if God exists “outside of the universe and is thus beyond being the same as any lifeform within it” that just means he is a lifeform not yet categorized. If God were a being not of this world no matter how powerful or exotic he would still be an Alien by the very definition of the word.

Barry the Breen 2; The Almighty Extraterrestrial 1

I was typing when you posted, and obviously missed it, but my previous post covers what you wrote as well. In light of that, it may be proper to reverse that score:

Barry the Breen (whoever that is) 1; The Almighty Extraterrestrial 2

[TLAM Strike]

This has been my point: There is more fact supporting the claims of various western religions than those for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It is not my personal view; it is not simply 'in my eyes'; it is fact. You simply don't like what the facts are telling you.

Lets see what facts we have,

The writings from people thousands of years ago that say a man claming to be the son of god is walking around the middle east converting people.

Verifiable studies by living scientists saying that the odds are that somewhere in the universe life similar or different than us exist, proof that planets orbit stars like ours and at the same distances as Earth. Unverifiable reports over the centuries of visits by non-human lifeforms, and eye witness (both creditable and uncreditable) reports of encounters with non-human lifeforms and objects.

[Takeda Shingen]

Lets see what facts we have,

The writings from people thousands of years ago that say a man claming to be the son of god is walking around the middle east converting people.

Verifiable studies by living scientists saying that the odds are that somewhere in the universe life similar or different than us exist, proof that planets orbit stars like ours and at the same distances as Earth. Unverifiable reports over the centuries of visits by non-human lifeforms, and eye witness (both creditable and uncreditable) reports of encounters with non-human lifeforms and objects.

So, you would not believe that the Great Roman Fire ever occured? Tacitus is the only one to write of it. Yet, we accept it as historical fact. I have listed multiple sources, none Biblical, that have verified the existence of Jesus. What credible reports for aliens are you citing?

Let us see it this way: I want to prove two things. (1) That Jesus was the Son of God. (2) That aliens exist, and are trying to take over the planet. For Jesus, I must prove:

A. That Jesus was an actual figure in history (Done. Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, The Talmud and Pilate himself are all regarded at truthful sources by all major historians)

B. That Jesus was indeed God incarnate (not proveable through science or historical record)


For the aliens, I must prove:

A. That aliens exsist (not currently proveable: Only heresay and theory exists. These are not evidences)

B. That aliens are hostile (not proveable due to the fact that point A remains unsolved)

[Godalmighty83]

havent the first radio waves only just left our solar system. i mean the big green nasty aliens are going to have to be mighty close to get anything for a while.

[Wildcat]

Well I'm not going to get into the religion / aliens debate..

But I have to say, if you don't think life exists out there somewhere, you have to be crazy. Basically if there was life formed on our planet, you can sure as hell bet it happened somewhere else too. There are tens of billions of planets out in the universe, and even if our earth is extremely rare, eventually you're going to come upon another planet that's exactly alike. Who knows. There could be a species out there that resembles us exactly, on the other side of the universe.

There's simply no way we're here alone.

The likelyhood that there's life anywhere near us? Pretty low. If there was, we'd probably know about it by now. It's only some 4 light years away. At that rate we'd be shooting back and forth emails to ET.

If there is life around here, they're trying to avoid us.

[Takeda Shingen]

But I have to say, if you don't think life exists out there somewhere, you have to be crazy. Basically if there was life formed on our planet, you can sure as hell bet it happened somewhere else too. There are tens of billions of planets out in the universe, and even if our earth is extremely rare, eventually you're going to come upon another planet that's exactly alike. Who knows. There could be a species out there that resembles us exactly, on the other side of the universe.

There's simply no way we're here alone.

Probablity is not evidence. For the record, I have never advocated or disputed any religion on this forum. That topical discussion is too sticky for my tastes.

[TLAM Strike]

I have listed multiple sources, none Biblical, that have verified the existence of Jesus. What credible reports for aliens are you citing? Reports by the Army of Alexander the Great at Tyre in 329 BC.

Monk and Historian William of Newburgh (1290).

Report by Lt. Frank Schofield U.S.S. Supply 300 miles west of San Francisco.

Reports of 200 unidentified aircraft tracked on radar by Swedish, French, Portuguese, Italian, and Greek militaries in the 50s.

Reports by Jimmy Carter & Neil Armstrong about encounters with UFOs.

Hay why I'm at it why don't I list Ezekiel. (Although I admit he is less than creditable)

And in a less sensational note Carbonyl sulfide has been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus, OCS is suggestive that life of some sort is there.

[Takeda Shingen]

Reports by the Army of Alexander the Great at Tyre in 329 BC.

Monk and Historian William of Newburgh (1290).

Report by Lt. Frank Schofield U.S.S. Supply 300 miles west of San Francisco.

Reports of 200 unidentified aircraft tracked on radar by Swedish, French, Portuguese, Italian, and Greek militaries in the 50s.

Reports by Jimmy Carter & Neil Armstrong about encounters with UFOs.

Hay why I'm at it why don't I list Ezekiel. (Although I admit he is less than creditable)

And in a less sensational note Carbonyl sulfide has been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus, OCS is suggestive that life of some sort is there.

Those sources all say the same general thing: 'I think I saw something. I don't know what it was. I cannot explain it.' They are no different than Ezekiel, although Ezekiel gave greater detail in his testemony than any of the others. This is not proof. Proof is multiple sources citing the same specific information. For example: Jesus was wandering the countryside, claiming to be the Son of God and attracting a large number of admirers. All of the historical writers agree on this.

[Wildcat]

You don't need absolute proof as an indicator that something exists. For example, in the 1600's it could not be proven that water was made up of several different specific elements. So, those elements do not exist? Or what?

Through the process of electrolysis it can be determined that the gas coming from the water is flammable, but also breatheable.... Deductive reasoning...There's probably oxygen in water. Still can't prove it though without some kind of specific analysis....

Not exactly the same deal with space, but similar. There's literally thousands of billions of stars in the universe. This cannot be disputed, this is known fact. There are even MORE planets in the universe than stars. It is known that there are other systems in the universe with planets at least resembling our own in shape and size.

It would be very naive to think that out of the thousands of billions of planets, no life could exist elsewhere. Even if you can't 'prove' that life is also out there somewhere, the numbers STRONGLY suggest that life IS somewhere out there. We exist. If we exist, someone else exists out there too. The universe is big enough that humans probably will never come into contact with a species from another starsystem or galaxy, but who knows.

[TLAM Strike]

Reports by the Army of Alexander the Great at Tyre in 329 BC.

Monk and Historian William of Newburgh (1290).

Report by Lt. Frank Schofield U.S.S. Supply 300 miles west of San Francisco.

Reports of 200 unidentified aircraft tracked on radar by Swedish, French, Portuguese, Italian, and Greek militaries in the 50s.

Reports by Jimmy Carter & Neil Armstrong about encounters with UFOs.

Hay why I'm at it why don't I list Ezekiel. (Although I admit he is less than creditable)

And in a less sensational note Carbonyl sulfide has been discovered in the atmosphere of Venus, OCS is suggestive that life of some sort is there.

Those sources all say the same general thing: 'I think I saw something. I don't know what it was. I cannot explain it.' They are no different than Ezekiel, although Ezekiel gave greater detail in his testemony than any of the others. This is not proof. Proof is multiple sources citing the same specific information. For example: Jesus was wandering the countryside, claiming to be the Son of God and attracting a large number of admirers. All of the historical writers agree on this.

Process of elimination. 'I saw something that wasn't "ours", I saw something that wasn't "theirs", it was not an aircraft as we know it but it was artificially constructed". This is basically what a lot of those statements say, what possibly could it be?

You need multiable confirmed sightings from different sources:
http://www.nicap.org/wnsdir.htm
Here you can find some of the testimony of some USAF F-94 pilots who quite possibly dogfighted with ET over Washington DC.

[Takeda Shingen]

You don't need absolute proof as an indicator that something exists. For example, in the 1600's it could not be proven that water was made up of several different specific elements. So, those elements do not exist? Or what?

That is completely illogical, and flies in the face of everything that scientific research stands for. Research in any facet of academia requires nothing short of absolute proof when accepting any new item of existence. This is why molecular structures were not known. Furthermore, I did not ever say that aliens do not exist. I also never said that God does not exist. I said that there was no proof of the existence of either, but there is more proof for God, as you can move beyond step A. (See above)


It would be very naive to think that out of the thousands of billions of planets, no life could exist elsewhere. Even if you can't 'prove' that life is also out there somewhere, the numbers STRONGLY suggest that life IS somewhere out there. We exist. If we exist, someone else exists out there too. The universe is big enough that humans probably will never come into contact with a species from another starsystem or galaxy, but who knows.

Suggestion, even strong suggestion, is not proof either. Yes, we exist, and no idea how we came into being, where we came from, or even how long we have been here. All we have are theories. When it boils down to it, science and archeology's answer to these questions is 'we really don't know'.

[Takeda Shingen]

Process of elimination. 'I saw something that wasn't "ours", I saw something that wasn't "theirs", it was not an aircraft as we know it but it was artificially constructed". This is basically what a lot of those statements say, what possibly could it be?

In research circles, this is called 'negative deduction/reasoning'. That is to say, 'I know what it is not, but I do not know what it is'. Evidence relies on positive deduction, which, obviously, tells you what the sample, item, object, individual is/are. The problem that UFO research has is that it relies entirely on negative deduction, which is why it is not taken seriously by the other scientific disciplines.

[DangerousDaze]

I'm unconcerned about the threat from aliens. I fear that there are too many people on this planet whose religious beliefs would make then unable to deal with the existance of extra-terrestrial life. I think we'd end up destroying ourselves.

DD

[kiwi_2005]

I think we'd end up destroying ourselves.

We're on that path already mate! :-j :yep:

[Skybird]

I think we'd end up destroying ourselves.

We're on that path already mate! :-j :yep:


Heyyy, shaddup you two! :stare: Skybird is the board-Kassandra, so could the hobby-seers and dilletantic doomsday-prophets please get out of my domain...!?!? :hulk:

[DeepSix]

My last two cents on this:

Lets see what facts we have....

Divinity is not a matter of facts. Science may one day prove or disprove the existence of aliens - created natural beings - but it can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a supernatural creator. Science deals with what can be perceived and measured; faith deals what cannot be perceived or measured ("the evidence of things not seen").

[Wildcat]

Process of elimination. 'I saw something that wasn't "ours", I saw something that wasn't "theirs", it was not an aircraft as we know it but it was artificially constructed". This is basically what a lot of those statements say, what possibly could it be?

In research circles, this is called 'negative deduction/reasoning'. That is to say, 'I know what it is not, but I do not know what it is'. Evidence relies on positive deduction, which, obviously, tells you what the sample, item, object, individual is/are. The problem that UFO research has is that it relies entirely on negative deduction, which is why it is not taken seriously by the other scientific disciplines.

Research in any facet of academia is usually proven innacurate years after the research was conducted. Sometimes science needs to take a back seat to common sense. Look at the number of planets in the universe and get back to us.. The reality is we are not the only living thing in this universe. Science has no way to prove otherwise, but shear numbers definately lean in the direction of there being life, and a lot of it, somewhere in the universe.

It's more than just naive to think there's nothing else out there.

[StdDev]

The answer (www.sfvsf.org/galaxy_song.mp3) to all of these issues has been explained! :yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

Research in any facet of academia is usually proven innacurate years after the research was conducted.

That is true. And what disproves the previous research? Why, none other than new research conducted in the same academic vein.

Sometimes science needs to take a back seat to common sense. Look at the number of planets in the universe and get back to us..

I spent all day looking at every star chart I could find, and came to this conclusion: A thousand years ago, common sense told man that the world was flat, and the oceans inhabited by mermaids and krackens. This made absolute logical sense when you look at the vastness of the sea, and the fact that the earth does not curve to the naked eye. Of course, this is not true in the least, and science has proven that.


The reality is we are not the only living thing in this universe. Science has no way to prove otherwise, but shear numbers definately lean in the direction of there being life, and a lot of it, somewhere in the universe.

It is not science's function to disprove, but to prove. Until proven, that 'reality' remains only a theory. Again, statistics are not evidence.

It's more than just naive to think there's nothing else out there.

You're right: It's scientifically sound too.

[Iceman]

I think seti and aliens are the least of your worries my friend.Did you watch the news tonite?..Polution,Natural Disasters,Plagues,Famines,Pestlience,Murder,War,Nu clear Weps, and money for nothing on MTV.

I liked this famous quote too...


Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one. But I'll take a shot. Say I'm working at the NSA, and somebody puts a code on my desk, somethin' no one else can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, cus' I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East and once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels are hiding... Fifteen hundred people that I never met, never had no problem with get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Oh, Send in the marines to secure the area" cus' they don't give a ****. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, cus' they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie over there takin' shrapnel in the ass. He comes back to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, cus' he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place was so that we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the little skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. They're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, of course, maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and ****in' play slalom with the icebergs, it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now my buddy's out of work. He can't afford to drive, so he's walking to the ****in' job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' cus' every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure **** it, while I'm at it why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected President.
-- Will from Good Will Hunting


But here is the hope...

John 14
[12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
[22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Peace