Would you?

[Kapitan]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

[Oberon]

I'd hold fire until the situation got clearer.

[TLAM Strike]

An F-14 isn’t much of a direct threat to a warship at sea. I’d warn them off (and call in the closest CAP aircraft) and if they close to within 10 nm I’d then fire.

[joea]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

Thinking of a particular incident Kap? ;)

[STEED]

Hold off for a second. :smug:

Opps forgot then shoot it down. :smug: ;)

[ABBAFAN]

He's been watching "seconds from disaster"


:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :|\ :|\ :-j :nope: :hulk: :rock:

[TteFAboB]

Yes, I would annihilate it.

Teaches a lesson about selling military equipment with a short-sighted vision, for short-term goals, when the future is nebulous.

[Kapitan]

Yes i have been watching TV and that programme however every person is diffrent so the question is would you fire?

As for the F14 being a threat do get real that thing can have guided and un guided bombs to launch at a ship also missiles, one thing we lernt from the falklands war was never underestimate the antiques!

Lernd in WW2 to the bismarks cost.

[blue3golf]

If there are no friendlies on a mission it would be engaged immediately. If there are some up, everything would be locked on until further confirmation can be made, if it twitched it would be blown to hell.

[tycho102]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

I would launch the alert-5 spellchecker, the alert-15 grammar re-structurer, the alert-30 Russian-to-English interpreter, and let them sort it out together.

:oops:

[Happy Times]

Shoot it down. Isnt Iran the only country flying them?

[Skybird]

Where does the incident take place? What nations are close?
What are my ships capabilities?
What are the hostile ships capabilities?
How is the naval battle going so far?
How is the enemy ship behaving so far?
What is the ROE?
What report do I have on friendly forces in the region?
What hostile nations are reported to operate the F14? What is their weaponry?
Is there reason to assume that the plane may carry nuclear weapons?
Is there reason to assume that it's pilot may be a kamikaze?
Is there radio contact to the F14? If so, what does the pilot say?
What has been the flight profile like, as far as radar has logged it?
What experience do I have had in the hours or days before in the operational theatre?
And, very important:
Does my own nation still operate F14s?

And maybe some other questions that I just cannot imagine.

[TLAM Strike]

As for the F14 being a threat do get real that thing can have guided and un guided bombs to launch at a ship also missiles, one thing we lernt from the falklands war was never underestimate the antiques! The F-14 can't launch ASMs, they only missile that could possibly be a threat would be a AGM-112 Sidearm and that has a max range of only 8 nm. GBU bombs have a range of about 8-10 nm (Thus my statement of at what distance I would engage) and the target was descending meaning its maximum range for the bombs is decreasing. A 10 nm buffer I think gives sufficient time to eliminate the F-14 before the bombs hit and since they are guided by the aircraft they will go dumb when its destroyed, fairly slim chance of hitting a moving ship from 10 miles away with a dumb(ed) bomb. ;)

And of course USN close in defense are a wee bit better than what the RN had in the Falklands which I think was just some dude with a Lee-Enfield. :-j

Remember the F-14 is a Fighter/Inteceptor. Hell I don’t even think the Bombcat was ever exported (to the one export customer the F-14 had)! :roll:

[Kapitan]

Ok these ships firing at you are small light armed patrol craft.

You are an american aegis cruiser (Namely vincennes)

Incident takes place in the straight of hormouz or near there

your forward gun is jammed and youve broken orders to no leave your patrol area Your now assisitng a fellow cruiseryou feel compelled to deal with the situation as your helicopter was fired at

Iran only flys the F14's

ROE is fire if fired upon or if you feel a target is a threat or poses a threat.

kamikasi and nuclear yes

Many messages have been put out with no responce

only one friendly ship that is under attack is in the area your fleet commander is having tea and buiscuites in barhain

And in this era your nation does fly the F14 however you have tracked this aircraft all the way from bander abbas and cannot be one of yours.

[kiwi_2005]

Skybird thats just way to many questions. Have all guns locked on to the F14 tell him hes in a restricted area and if he doesn't buggar off within 30secs hes a dead man :D

[Kapitan]

But weve tried to contact him via radio with no reply.

[August]

A Kamakazi piloted F-14 laden with explosives might not sink a ship like the Vincennes but it could certainly ruin its weekend...

[Godalmighty83]

then hes asking for a spanking.

[Kapitan]

If a few 500lb bombs can sink aircraft carriers an F14 laden with about 5000lb of explosives smack bang in the middle would tare the ship in two most definatly.

[CCIP]

I think you haven't clarified the situation enough. Even within seconds, a captain should be able to make a good decision, but I couldn't since I only know a shred of information about the situation here - and the captain would, ideally, have a good picture.

One thing I would NOT do is take longer than needed, and that means very quick.


This actually reminded me of an interesting story:

My father served in the Soviet Army in the late 70's, was posted in the Kola Peninsula. He was a radio operator, and eventually he worked at one of the EW radar/communications stations there.

Since I think he was only a Praporschik, all he basically had to do was sit there and listen to the radio and tell his superiors if something happened. He also got to watch the radar screens nearby.

So, he told of how several times, they would detect an aircraft coming in from the sea - which they identified as an SR-71, judging by its speed. His station would immediately send off their report, and he listened as the word travelled up into the PVO stations, up the chain of command, and by the time it even got to the higher ranks, the plane would have overflown the Murmansk area and was well out to sea - so, noone would have to decide anything.

Then one day, they caught a slow contact moving in from the Finnish border, which was already in Soviet airspace and failed to respond to radio calls. Again, same process - everything travelled up the chain of command, but this time it travelled back down too, since the contact was no SR-71 and took its sweet time lingering in the wrong airspace (more than likely, a small private plane). So, he watched as on the radar screen, the neighbouring SAM battery fired off a missile and the blip broke and disappeared.

He never did find out what the contact was, for obvious reasons :hmm:

[edit]

By the way, I can't confirm this story other than what I've been told by him. Doesn't sound unrealistic, but there's no info on incidents like that anywhere; if anyone has heard of something like that, please relay me some info :hmm:

[STEED]

Lernd in WW2 to the bismarks cost.

And here's the man who crippled the Bismarck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/4931310.stm


Back to your question Kap, I think I know where you're heading with this one. ;)

[Kapitan]

Back to your question Kap, I think I know where you're heading with this one.

I bet you dont !

At a guess it would be something anti american?

[STEED]

I shall sit back and wait to see your answer. :lol:

[Skybird]

Ok these ships firing at you are small light armed patrol craft.

You are an american aegis cruiser (Namely vincennes)

Incident takes place in the straight of hormouz or near there

your forward gun is jammed and youve broken orders to no leave your patrol area Your now assisitng a fellow cruiseryou feel compelled to deal with the situation as your helicopter was fired at

Iran only flys the F14's

ROE is fire if fired upon or if you feel a target is a threat or poses a threat.

kamikasi and nuclear yes

Many messages have been put out with no responce

only one friendly ship that is under attack is in the area your fleet commander is having tea and buiscuites in barhain

And in this era your nation does fly the F14 however you have tracked this aircraft all the way from bander abbas and cannot be one of yours.

If the navy unit that I am busy with is an Iranian vessel, I would immediately open fire on the F14.

If the navy unit I am fighting against is no Iranian unit, I also would immediately open fire, for as you said several radio comms had been directed at it which it did not reply, in which it had been told to immediately clear the area due to ongoing combat action. It is a fairt guess then that it's intent is hostile if it nevertheless enters a combat zone and is none of mine.

And if the F14 pilot would send a message "Long live america I come in peace" I nevertheless also would open fire immediately :-j

[Skybird]

Skybird thats just way to many questions.
Not really. Many of these question would not come up when the F14 appears, but the answers would be already known to the commander before. I think he needs to know this info and would make sure it is available and he have it on his mind, else he easily could end up at a martial court when his decision was wrong.

[Abraham]

And the winner of tonight is:.............

Skybird, who set the right parameters to engage!

:D

[Linton]

Did you know that when a certain warship fired a missile at an A300 pretending to be an F14,that it took the aaw officer several goes to launch the missile.How an airbus could be mistaken for a fighter is beyond me-because the 'bus is just not that agile or quick!I would want positive id not just an iff sqwuack.Do you know how easy it is to mis-set a transponder,too easy.
Also Iran also has other aircraft apart from the Tomcat

[Skybird]

I took it from Kapitan's description that the UFO is confirmed to be an F14 indeed. Else he should have said " an unknown aircraft approaching your warship that appears to be an F14".

[Happy Times]

Then one day, they caught a slow contact moving in from the Finnish border, which was already in Soviet airspace and failed to respond to radio calls. Again, same process - everything travelled up the chain of command, but this time it travelled back down too, since the contact was no SR-71 and took its sweet time lingering in the wrong airspace (more than likely, a small private plane). So, he watched as on the radar screen, the neighbouring SAM battery fired off a missile and the blip broke and disappeared.

He never did find out what the contact was, for obvious reasons Hmmm

[edit]

By the way, I can't confirm this story other than what I've been told by him. Doesn't sound unrealistic, but there's no info on incidents like that anywhere; if anyone has heard of something like that, please relay me some info Hmmm Hmmm. Sounds very interesting. :hmm: It also sounds unlikely we would have done that in the 70s, tension very high in that area, but he probably has no reason to make it up. Can you ask more from him about the flight path and the area? I have family and friends (some high ranking) that are active or ex Finnish military that i am going to ask about this event. They might even answer, you never know. I know that in the 50s Finns were dropped across the border, mostly contracted by Western intelligence, but im pretty sure its been rarity since. Theres a lot off small private planes flying in Lapland transporting people and goods to remote locations, one could have lost its course, that would be my guess. But same type of planes are also operated by FAF and the Border Guard. How sure is he it got hit? Then we would have a missing plane in the records somewhere.

[CCIP]

Yea, I'll make sure to check his story next time I get a chance. I doubt he made this up since he's not particularly military-minded, and he does seem rather reluctant to tell these stories.

I've been combing over things, but nothing comes up so far. The part on the SR-71s though is quite certainly true, I believe that was the period of those birds' highest activity.

There seems to have been quite a few shady things going on during the cold war era. Here's a somewhat similar incident with Sweden from 1952... http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1010_031010_swedishspyplane_2.html

On the other hand, if it did happen as he says, it could easily have been a mistake caused by tensions. It's not impossible that some bush plane simply went off course.

[TLAM Strike]

Then one day, they caught a slow contact moving in from the Finnish border, which was already in Soviet airspace and failed to respond to radio calls. Again, same process - everything travelled up the chain of command, but this time it travelled back down too, since the contact was no SR-71 and took its sweet time lingering in the wrong airspace (more than likely, a small private plane). So, he watched as on the radar screen, the neighbouring SAM battery fired off a missile and the blip broke and disappeared.

He never did find out what the contact was, for obvious reasons Hmmm

[edit]

By the way, I can't confirm this story other than what I've been told by him. Doesn't sound unrealistic, but there's no info on incidents like that anywhere; if anyone has heard of something like that, please relay me some info Hmmm Hmmm. Sounds very interesting. :hmm: It also sounds unlikely we would have done that in the 70s, tension very high in that area, but he probably has no reason to make it up. Can you ask more from him about the flight path and the area? I have family and friends (some high ranking) that are active or ex Finnish military that i am going to ask about this event. They might even answer, you never know. I know that in the 50s Finns were dropped across the border, mostly contracted by Western intelligence, but im pretty sure its been rarity since. Theres a lot off small private planes flying in Lapland transporting people and goods to remote locations, one could have lost its course, that would be my guess. But same type of planes are also operated by FAF and the Border Guard. How sure is he it got hit? Then we would have a missing plane in the records somewhere.

Could it have been a Finnish Il-28R? I know they bought some from the USSR and used them for spying but I don't think any were reported shot down. :hmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Where does the incident take place? What nations are close?
What are my ships capabilities?
What are the hostile ships capabilities?
How is the naval battle going so far?
How is the enemy ship behaving so far?
What is the ROE?
What report do I have on friendly forces in the region?
What hostile nations are reported to operate the F14? What is their weaponry?
Is there reason to assume that the plane may carry nuclear weapons?
Is there reason to assume that it's pilot may be a kamikaze?
Is there radio contact to the F14? If so, what does the pilot say?
What has been the flight profile like, as far as radar has logged it?
What experience do I have had in the hours or days before in the operational theatre?
And, very important:
Does my own nation still operate F14s?

And maybe some other questions that I just cannot imagine.

Decisive, ain't he? :lol:

[bradclark1]

If in doubt, kill.
Better you than them. You have the recorded contact as a F-14 to back you up.

[Skybird]

Where does the incident take place? What nations are close?
What are my ships capabilities?
What are the hostile ships capabilities?
How is the naval battle going so far?
How is the enemy ship behaving so far?
What is the ROE?
What report do I have on friendly forces in the region?
What hostile nations are reported to operate the F14? What is their weaponry?
Is there reason to assume that the plane may carry nuclear weapons?
Is there reason to assume that it's pilot may be a kamikaze?
Is there radio contact to the F14? If so, what does the pilot say?
What has been the flight profile like, as far as radar has logged it?
What experience do I have had in the hours or days before in the operational theatre?
And, very important:
Does my own nation still operate F14s?

And maybe some other questions that I just cannot imagine.

Decisive, ain't he? :lol:

What's wrong with this needed information? Only a triggerhappy would shoot around without having this info together. Remember, this is ionfo that must not be asked in the situation, but would have been clear from the beginning (a captain not knowing where he is, what his enemy is, and who cannot understand what radar guy is telling him on flight profile is an idiot - he also better is aware of the ROE, and has receivbed info and intel updates on the possible threats in the theatre where is currently is.).

As I see it, my dec ision to shoot the F14 down would be made within seconds, since most of these questions already would be answered when the Tomcat pops up on the scene. My questions where not so much realistic in that situation, but a demand to Kapitan to specify the situation more exactly.

[sonar732]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

I would launch the alert-5 spellchecker, the alert-15 grammar re-structurer, the alert-30 Russian-to-English interpreter, and let them sort it out together.

:oops:


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Happy Times]

Could it have been a Finnish Il-28R? I know they bought some from the USSR and used them for spying but I don't think any were reported shot down. :hmm: I doubt they would have crossed the border. I think only option is the small civilian plane or one that atleast looks like one. ;) But i started to wonder that it could also be possible for the Norwegians to fly through Finland and in to Russia. If this happened up north near Kola peninsula. :hmm:

[mapuc]

When I red this thread, the first thing that came to my mind, was the incident with the iranian airplane that was shot down.

I can't remember the year/month/day

I can't remember what type of vessel it was, only that it was an american.

I can't remember what type of airplane it was

Markus

[TLAM Strike]

Could it have been a Finnish Il-28R? I know they bought some from the USSR and used them for spying but I don't think any were reported shot down. :hmm: I doubt they would have crossed the border. I think only option is the small civilian plane or one that atleast looks like one. ;) But i started to wonder that it could also be possible for the Norwegians to fly through Finland and in to Russia. If this happened up north near Kola peninsula. :hmm:
From: http://www.vectorsite.net/avil28.html

Finland also obtained five Il-28Rs and one Il-28 in the 1960s, with three of these converted to target tugs. Ironically, the Finns used their Il-28Rs to spy on the neighboring "Bear" to the east, skirting the border and then drifting over when the coast seemed clear to inspect any suspicious activity on the eastern side of the fence. The local Soviet air defense command found the Finnish Beagles a persistent nuisance but never managed to shoot one down. It is interesting to wonder if the Soviets ever thought when they sold the Il-28Rs to Finland who besides the USSR the Finns felt they really needed to keep an eye on.

[Happy Times]

Could it have been a Finnish Il-28R? I know they bought some from the USSR and used them for spying but I don't think any were reported shot down. :hmm: I doubt they would have crossed the border. I think only option is the small civilian plane or one that atleast looks like one. ;) But i started to wonder that it could also be possible for the Norwegians to fly through Finland and in to Russia. If this happened up north near Kola peninsula. :hmm:
From: http://www.vectorsite.net/avil28.html

Finland also obtained five Il-28Rs and one Il-28 in the 1960s, with three of these converted to target tugs. Ironically, the Finns used their Il-28Rs to spy on the neighboring "Bear" to the east, skirting the border and then drifting over when the coast seemed clear to inspect any suspicious activity on the eastern side of the fence. The local Soviet air defense command found the Finnish Beagles a persistent nuisance but never managed to shoot one down. It is interesting to wonder if the Soviets ever thought when they sold the Il-28Rs to Finland who besides the USSR the Finns felt they really needed to keep an eye on. If this is true, anythings possible. Didnt know they were allowed to do these types of flights. For sure the politicians wouldnt of OKd these flights, they were too scared at the time :hmm: Have to find about this too..

[TLAM Strike]

When I red this thread, the first thing that came to my mind, was the incident with the iranian airplane that was shot down.

I can't remember the year/month/day

I can't remember what type of vessel it was, only that it was an american.

I can't remember what type of airplane it was

Markus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 ;)

[Konovalov]

I'd ask Kapitan for more info onthe situation. If I die whilst waiting for his reply then I made a bad call. :-j

[Kapitan]

Kapitan: Sir its an aeroplane

Konavolov: Yes but wheres it from

Kapitan: well its in the sky sir

Konavalov my effing god this will not do

Voice: shes lost abandon ship

[Oberon]

Kapitan: Sir its an aeroplane

Konavolov: Yes but wheres it from

Kapitan: well its in the sky sir

Konavalov my effing god this will not do

Voice: shes lost abandon ship

Kapitan: Recommend ramming speed, sir!

;)

[The Noob]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

What would i do?

General Quaters!All hands man you're Battle Station!

Nuke the Aircraft!

Thats what i would do! :yep:

[Oberon]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

What would i do?

General Quaters!All hands man you're Battle Station!

Nuke the Aircraft!

Thats what i would do! :yep:


http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Umbrella612c5.jpg

"Errr...sir, perhaps we should have used the nuke at a slightly longer range."

[CB..]

i would tell it to reverse course untill it could be checked out...with the warning that any deviation from those instructions would result in it being designated as a threat...regardless of what it did next i would launch a surface to air missile at it.....if that was technicaly possible--and disarm it if the aircraft complied..i would then want a close up visual comfirmation of it's type and equipment if possible and ask for an evaluation of it's maximum range and all possible ships and or land bases in that range that could have been it's take-off point..if by this time no use full verbal communication had been established with the pilot....there were no friendly bases within it's maximum range and no confirmation of it's friendly status had been recieved from the chain of command i would shoot it down..no matter what it did next

[The Noob]

Your in command of an american warship your already coming under attack by enamy ships not a big threat, when you detect an aircraft sqwarking a millatery code your intel tells you its an F14.

Just before you make your choice you hear "Altitude declining" and "captain should we engauge?"

What do you do?

What would i do?

General Quaters!All hands man you're Battle Station!

Nuke the Aircraft!

Thats what i would do! :yep:


http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Umbrella612c5.jpg

"Errr...sir, perhaps we should have used the nuke at a slightly longer range."

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

From were for god's sake do you get this funny pics? :rotfl:

[STEED]

Kapitan: Sir its an aeroplane

Konavolov: Yes but wheres it from

Kapitan: well its in the sky sir

Konavalov my effing god this will not do

Voice: shes lost abandon ship

Is that it come on more info, what was your point?

[GreyOctober]

From were for god's sake do you get this funny pics? :rotfl:

Nuke blasts are never funny. The ship you see there is part of the experiment to test the blast impact and damage on it. :|\
Maybe it was the comment atached that made it funny :know:

[Oberon]

Google Image is my best friend, failing that, Paint Shop Pro 7 and a good sense of humour :up: