Wacky Zip Files

[Manock]

Does anybody else NOT run mods because it requires some wacky program to unzip them?

I dont care if your new fangled zip program compresses a few percentage points tighter, download speeds are not that important.

Just zip it in standard Windows format, and stop trying to impress us with your up to date, computer science knowledge of arcane for the most part useless knowledge. Leave the impressing to your mod.

Rant Over
Manock

[JScones]

I assume that you are referring to .7z files?

Well, LZMA compression has been around since 2001, so it's hardly "new". It compresses between 30% and 70% better than zip format (hardly "a few percentage points"), which considering the size of some of the mods around here is of immense help to those that still have 56k modems...and there are a few here. Plus, it's of great benefit to those uploading and hosting the files (bandwidth and so on). There's much more to consider than just whether one user can open it with his comfortable WinZip.

I think Grey Wolves brought Terrapin's site down for a while when it was first released...imagine the impact if it was in zip format?

There's many (free) programmes that open .7z files. It's not that hard to find one AND they'll also open your standard zip files as well (three most popular being IZArc, WinRAR, 7-ZIP).

So, quit ranting, don't knock what you know nothing about and move on...or run an unmodded SH3. The choice is all yours... :up:

[Tonnage_Ace]

WinRAR all the way baby! :rock:

[JScones]

I actually like IZArc - it seems to me to be a carbon copy of WinZip but with support for basically every compression format out there.

It has a few nuances, but it is totally free and means that I only need one compression application on my machine.

[Tonnage_Ace]

I actually like IZArc - it seems to me to be a carbon copy of WinZip but with support for basically every compression format out there.

It has a few nuances, but it is totally free and means that I only need one compression application on my machine.
Ya, but can you view nfo files with IZArc? WinRAR also adds options to the right-click window when you right-click on files, in other words, I can either unzip the file(whatever it is) into it's own folder, automatically renamed after the zipped file, or unzip all teh contents onto, say, the desktop. Usually, if there's only one file or folder in the compressed file, I'll just say, 'unzip here', which will unzip the file onto my desktop. Or if there are multiple files in the compressed file, I'll just click, "unzip to: 'compressed file's name here' ".

[JScones]

Ya, but can you view nfo files with IZArc? WinRAR also adds options to the right-click window when you right-click on files, in other words, I can either unzip the file(whatever it is) into it's own folder, automatically renamed after the zipped file, or unzip all the contents onto, say, the desktop. Usually, if there's only one file or folder in the compressed file, I'll just say, 'unzip here', which will unzip the file onto my desktop. Or if there are multiple files in the compressed file, I'll just click, "unzip to: 'compressed file's name here' ".
Yep, got all of that. Right context menu provides:
-Extract to...
-Extract Here
-Extract to.. \<file name>
-Email <file name>
-Convert Archive to other formats
-Create self extracting EXE file not for all compression types
-Test

You can open the archive and drag and drop any or all of the contents to wherever you like. You can view contents of the archive either in the associated programme, notepad, or whatever viewer you want. If you've ever used WinZip, you can say you know IZArc.

[Tonnage_Ace]

I guess it's just a matter of which program you downloaded first and then got used to. If it works for your purposes, why change, right?

[STEED]

Does anybody else NOT run mods because it requires some wacky program to unzip them?

I know the felling but you just got to go with the flow.

[JScones]

I guess it's just a matter of which program you downloaded first and then got used to. If it works for your purposes, why change, right?
Absolutely. I did try 7zip and WinRAR, but as I was a WinZip user all my life, I just felt comfortable with IZArc.

But they all essentially do the same thing. Whatever you're comfortable using is all that matters. :up:

[Tonnage_Ace]

GW 1.1 is pretty much an end all mod if you just want a change and don't want any other mods, it's really simple to install as well.
But just a few minutes ago, I just finished reading 11 pages worth of posts concerning the SH3 Gen mod. I usually do this so that I'm up to date on a mods quirks and/or problems, how to solve those problems and what to do about the quirks. Version 0.5.2 of that mod is out and has almost no problems to speak of, but I would never know that if I didn't read the whole thread. That thread had gone dead about a month and a half ago, thank god someone started it up again or else I wouldn't know about that mod at all.

It's hard to keep up on the mod arms-race, I find myself dedicating more time to the forums than I do playing the game! I got the game in December and installed my first mod through JSGME about a month after that, now I can't imagine playing the flawed, vanilla version without any mods. The community here is one of the strongest for any game I know of and the mod community has done such a brilliant job of customising SH3 to make it more playable/realistic, that it's amazing they did so without an SDK to help them along(which would've helped a lot).

[JScones]

And SH3Gen comes in zip format. :yep: :up:

[GlobalExplorer]

I think if files are small and bandwith paid, only a fool uses formats like 7z or RAR, because it scares off many people. If bandwidth is an issue, I have no problem with "ultra" compressed archives that go to the most extreme sacrifices in speed for a smaller file size, because only then it really pays off.

Personally, I don't like WinRAR, because it is nagware and sometimes weird. 7z is cool, but sometimes not at hand. No matter what, every serious mod user should have both 7z and WinRAR on his computer.

Being a really slow guy when it comes to new software, I really love the way how zip compression is integrated in XP.

But just a few minutes ago, I just finished reading 11 pages worth of posts concerning the SH3 Gen mod. I usually do this so that I'm up to date on a mods quirks and/or problems, how to solve those problems and what to do about the quirks. Version 0.5.2 of that mod is out and has almost no problems to speak of, but I would never know that if I didn't read the whole thread. That thread had gone dead about a month and a half ago, thank god someone started it up again or else I wouldn't know about that mod at all.

I hope this will get better when I submit a proven version to Terrapins or Neals server. I also think that the first bunch of people have enough experience with it to know that it works and is not nearly as complicated as it sounds, and starting mouth propaganda. I personally don't have the energy or shamelessness to repeatedly advertise at the various sites, so if this gets overlooked or not depends on wether users recommend it to people who are looking for a more athmospheric campaign.

[Sailor Steve]

The first time I saw a mod in 7zip format, the modder included a link to the program. I downloaded it and installed the mod just fine, and I use 7zip all the time now.

I don't see what the problem is.

[SubSerpent]

EEEeeeeeWWwwwwww..........


SOoooo......... SCaarrryyyy.......




:hulk: 7Zip :hulk:

[GreyOctober]

Does anybody else NOT run mods because it requires some wacky program to unzip them?

I guess youre the only one...

Cheers!

[Seminole]

I still run the GW mod and I would surely demand that it and any other mod be in WinZip format.....provided I were paying for them....but since they are free....I figure beggars can't be choosers...so I gladly comply with whatever the person(s) doing all that free work for my benefit asks me to....which includeds using Winrar or any of the others.

I could demand the Winzip expand to include the ability to handle all other files types....but hey I didn't pay for that either... ;)

[Manock]

Well Thank You Saint Seminole!

I guess I am the only one except for that one wise german fellow who does not like uneeded programs screwing around with my operating system.

Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful.

I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh.

[Sailor Steve]

I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh.
I thought that was me! :-?

[Gizzmoe]

Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful.

And so computer-illiterate... :D ;)

Compression algorithms evolve, there are many formely famous and widely-used compression programs that are now extinct, like ARC, ARJ, LHARC, ZOO and Compress. There always was a period of whining when something better came out, but slowly but surely people got used to the new software.

As JScones wrote in his first post: Better algorithms = smaller filesize = faster uploads and downloads. And less costs for file hosts, providers and Internet users without a flatrate.

My guestimate is that if everyone knew how to correctly use file compression, be it for "normal" files, or image, sound and video files, there would be at least 30% less Internet traffic.

[VonHelsching]

I think if files are small and bandwith paid, only a fool uses formats like 7z or RAR, because it scares off many people.

GE, my fixes are 5-50 KB and I use .7z (have never thought about it actually - the icon it's just nicer than the .zip). Shall I whip myself publicly to repent for my sin? :-j

[GlobalExplorer]

It's not only about better compression algorithms and such.

Do we start all talking "Newspeak" or Esperanto because they are so much better and logical? No. We speak English, because it's the language everyone in the world knows. If we'd started to talk Chinese all of a sudden a lot of you guys would be damn pissed off.

Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over.

If you can live with some people not downloading your stuff and bandwidth is expensive, use 7z. Otherwise I'd say screw bandwidth. Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment. When I was at the university there were people producing more traffic on one day than most of us here in a year.

Lastly, never underestimate the power of the user!

I think if files are small and bandwith paid, only a fool uses formats like 7z or RAR, because it scares off many people.

GE, my fixes are 5-50 KB and I use .7z (have never thought about it actually - the icon it's just nicer than the .zip). Shall I whip myself publicly to repent for my sin? :-j

He gets 5 slashes on the naked butt, and the 7z icon scratched on the forehead.

[Gizzmoe]

Do we start all talking "Newspeak" or Esperanto because they are so much better and logical? No. We speak English, because it's the language everyone in the world knows. If we'd started to talk Chinese all of a sudden a lot of you guys would be damn pissed off.

Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over.

That´s a very bad analogy. Learning and mastering a language is a long process, learning how to use a compression software is a matter of a few minutes if you have used such programs before. It´s no rocket science... Especially just unpacking files is basically a no-brainer!

Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment.

Bandwidth is a common good and doesn´t come for free, actually it´s quite expensive. It´s very often possible to make an archive 30-70% smaller by simply using advanced compression software and it´s no more work than using software with inferior algorithms.

[Seminole]

Well Thank You Saint Seminole!

I guess I am the only one except for that one wise german fellow who does not like uneeded programs screwing around with my operating system.

Oh - I could just hate myself sometimes. So self serving. So pretentious. So darned ungrateful.

I am scum.
I am below scum
I am what scum feeds on.
I hate myself
Sigh.


Er...it isn't at all a question of morality but rather a matter of logic,rationality,old fashion common sense plus a firm grasp on reality.

[Sailor Steve]

When I tried to download Grey Wolves some of the six separate files took longer than my hour at the library would allow.

From Terrapin's site the whole thing was compressed to 80 MB. I downloaded the complete package in 10 minutes.

[Seminole]

When I tried to download Grey Wolves some of the six separate files took longer than my hour at the library would allow.

From Terrapin's site the whole thing was compressed to 80 MB. I downloaded the complete package in 10 minutes.


Where did you find that on the site ? Do you mean he now has all six files in a single downloadable package? That would be great.

I downloaded the six separate GW files from Terrapin's site and it took the better part of an half hour to get them all....but that was a while back.

[JScones]

Thats the same with programs. A lot of people will prefer to download or use files that are in zip format. Period. It's not the question whether these people are smart. They just have learned to use their tools and don't want to spent a lot of time starting over and over.
And these people put themselves into an environment which endures constant change? Gee, perhaps if these people had their way we'd still all be using DOS? Or...maybe if we're lucky...Windows 3.1? A bit extreme, but you get the point.

If you can live with some people not downloading your stuff and bandwidth is expensive, use 7z. Otherwise I'd say screw bandwidth. Some of you sound like conserving bandwidth is some god-like activity like protecting the environment. When I was at the university there were people producing more traffic on one day than most of us here in a year.

Lastly, never underestimate the power of the user!
Excluding professional packages, I use zip or self extracting exe files for all my smaller stuff, like less than 8mb or so. Anything over gets the 7z treatment. And I make no apologies for it. I have limited space and I don't like getting hit with the over-quota fees, just to appease a minority of users. If they feel intimidated by 7z format, then they miss out.

Anyway, just something to ponder...

uncompressed GW1.0 = 1640MB
ZIP max compressed GW1.0 = 966MB (59% of original filesize)
7z max compressed GW1.0 = 630MB (38% of original filesize and 35% better than ZIP). And coincidently, a perfect size to archive away on a CD.

Now, considering the "weakest links" in the chain...

On the one hand:
-people with slow connections (either dialup or broadband)
-people with download limits
-people with time limits
-hosters with modest server sizes (or those that want to maximise their server space)

On the other hand:
-people that don't like progressive technology (which, ironically is the world in which we live)

Hmmm... I know which people I'd rather appease...