Arguement about Easter

[micky1up]

just another comsumer driven holiday along with mothers day farther's day and christmass although i do buy my son presents i am not gonna claim its because we celebrate the birth of christ ffs it isnt even the time of year he was born if he was at all i rather he grew up knowing his mum and dad worked their socks off to get him the toys and presents he enjoys

[joea]

Our Easter is next week, Greek Orthodox that is. It is far less commercial (more gastronomic) than western Easter...very family oriented, big lamb bbq, cookies bread. Chocolates yes but that is foreign influence. No Easter Bunny just Jesus Christ, and spring time and family which non-believers can share too.

Happy Easter to you all in any case.

[Skybird]

To put it, politically correct, into culture-free words: mjam-mjam!

[Polak]

Our Easter is next week, Greek Orthodox that is. It is far less commercial (more gastronomic) than western Easter...very family oriented, big lamb bbq, cookies bread. Chocolates yes but that is foreign influence. No Easter Bunny just Jesus Christ, and spring time and family which non-believers can share too.

Happy Easter to you all in any case.

My Easter is now, I am a Polish Roman Catholic. But it is like you say, it's also far less commercial. The family and Jesus Christ is of greatest importance. Today on my dining table you would find, bread, salt, a pieace of sausage, eggs, some other things too, but those 4 things are of greatest importance

/Wesołych Świąt

[Takeda Shingen]

To put it, politically correct, into culture-free words: mjam-mjam!

An interesting observation along those lines: One of the local television stations in Philadelphia places icons for holidays (religious, patriotic, political, etc.) on the specific weekdays for the seven-day forecasts. On the 4th of July, for example, there was a little waving American flag. On Ramadan, they had the Star and Crescent. For Passover, just this last week, they had the Star of David. For Easter, they had an Easter Bunny.

Interesting. Religious tolerance and inclusion does not seem to extend to the Christian community.

[The Avon Lady]

To put it, politically correct, into culture-free words: mjam-mjam!

An interesting observation along those lines: One of the local television stations in Philadelphia places icons for holidays (religious, patriotic, political, etc.) on the specific weekdays for the seven-day forecasts. On the 4th of July, for example, there was a little waving American flag. On Ramadan, they had the Star and Crescent. For Passover, just this last week, they had the Star of David. For Easter, they had an Easter Bunny.

Interesting. Religious tolerance and inclusion does not seem to extend to the Christian community.
How do you come to that conclusion? Because they didn't show a cross?

If that's your point, I disagree. What more specific symbol would you show for Ramadan? How do you iconically portray a person fasting or feasting on lamb and rice in the evening? Similarly, for Passover, I don't think it's easy to recognize a square matza icon. Therefore, the symbols shown were generic.

Yet an Easter Bunny is a dead ringer for Easter, isn't it? So on the contrary, showing a more specific icon indicates exactly what Christian holiday falls out on that day.

What are you hitting yourself for? :hmm:

[MadMike]

As for the Easter Bunny thing-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Bunny

On the other hand, I have a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch ready, just in case...

Yours, Mike

[Takeda Shingen]

How do you come to that conclusion? Because they didn't show a cross?

An oversimplification of a much larger picture, but yes.

If that's your point, I disagree. What more specific symbol would you show for Ramadan? How do you iconically portray a person fasting or feasting on lamb and rice in the evening? Similarly, for Passover, I don't think it's easy to recognize a square matza icon. Therefore, the symbols shown were generic.

And religious in nature.

Yet an Easter Bunny is a dead ringer for Easter, isn't it?

A secularized version, yes. It is in line with the gradual secularization of Christianity and Christian culture in the USA over the past 40 years. Such policy is not tollerated against Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Hindi, Shinto, et. al. We are asked to not only repect, but to understand the religious significance of the Holy Days specific to those faiths.


What are you hitting yourself for? :hmm:

I am not.

[The Avon Lady]

If that's your point, I disagree. What more specific symbol would you show for Ramadan? How do you iconically portray a person fasting or feasting on lamb and rice in the evening? Similarly, for Passover, I don't think it's easy to recognize a square matza icon. Therefore, the symbols shown were generic.
And religious in nature.
Nevertheless generic.

Should I be upset if the Jewish holiday Hanuka is represented by a Menorah? Of course not!
Yet an Easter Bunny is a dead ringer for Easter, isn't it?
A secularized version, yes. It is in line with the gradual secularization of Christianity and Christian culture in the USA over the past 40 years.
Then the problem isn't one of tolernace. It's one of assumptions what best represents Easter. That's a different story! My point being, I don't see the choice of icons in this incident you mentioned as a representation of intollerance.
Such policy is not tollerated against Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Hindi, Shinto, et. al.
I cannot speak for the other religions you mentioned but I'm at a loss to think of what could be used for an icon for any Jewish holiday that would represent some secularized version of that day.

Incidentally, looking at MadMike's link about the origins of an egg laying bunny, while it is mythological, there's nothing to indicate that the origins of this custom were only practiced by secularized Christians. Am I wrong?

You would logically object to a Christmas tree being used as an icon for that holday, too, as its origins are pagan. Yet non-secular observant Christians have followed this custom for ages.
We are asked to not only repect, but to understand the religious significance of the Holy Days specific to those faiths.
At the most, you are concerned about ignorance.
What are you hitting yourself for? :hmm:
I am not.
Always look on the bright side of life! :sunny:

[Takeda Shingen]

Should I be upset if the Jewish holiday Hanuka is represented by a Menorah? Of course not!

I am offended by it. Furthermore, I am offended by the emphasis on the Chanukkah festival. It is, at best, a minor observance on the Jewish calendar, and is yet held as being more important to non-Jew in an effort to conform to their calendars. It is very convienient for secular Americans to sit back and say: 'See, everyone is celebrating thier important holidays.' Yet, they largely ignore Yom Kippur just as they ignore Easter, each being the holiest day of the year for each faith. Frankly, I would expect a faithful Jew to be indignant at that representation of his or her faith.

I cannot speak for the other religions you mentioned but I'm at a loss to think of what could be used for an icon for any Jewish holiday that would represent some secularized version of that day.

My point exactly. Aside from the Chanukkah issue, Jewish holidays have remained, for the most part, untouched by secular America. This movement is paculiar to Christianity alone.

You would logically object to a Christmas tree being used as an icon for that holday, too, as its origins are pagan. Yet non-secular observant Christians have followed this custom for ages.

I am a non-Christian, but I would hold that to be logically sound, regardless of Martin Luther's efforts to 'Christianize' the Yule holiday.

Always look on the bright side of life! :sunny:

Characterizing me as a foolish optimist? That is neither accurate nor kind. Watch the belt-line, please.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

she's arguing about the Easter Bunny now...

who in their right mind would think that a picture of an easter bunny was meant to be linked to any particular, much less secular representation of the Easter Holidays...

for god sake, how much more foolish can this get...

that wasn't a question avon... that was a rhetorical statement... please don't go on another googling binge, just to come up with some equally foolish reply... no reply is required...


to everyone else of sound mind and of cheerful spirit...

http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/media/4/20060416-gjkerty56uu.gif

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

who in their right mind would think that a picture of an easter bunny was meant to be linked to any particular, much less secular representation of the Easter Holidays...
Right mike.

Any normal person would have associated an Easter Bunny with Kwanza. But, of course.:88)

So all those western Europeans who had this as part of their Christian culture were out of their minds just like me. OK.

If you say so.
for god sake, how much more foolish can this get...
Well, with your help.................
that wasn't a question avon... that was a rhetorical statement... please don't go on another googling binge, just to come up with some equally foolish reply... no reply is required...
Tough luck. Here I am.

Seems like all you can do here is stalk after my posts and lay your disparaging colorful eggs around the forum.

BTW, shut off your webcam. You're embarrassing yourself.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3606/faceeggs4jb.jpg

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

Seems like all you can do here is stalk after my posts and lay your disparaging colorful eggs around the forumyou're delusional as far as that statement is concerned... check the Easter threads and see who was first to wish everyone a Happy Easter...

only a person like you would take an innocent celebration of an incidental part of a holiday season, and try and turn it into a hateful thing... any idiot could see that the Easter Bunny thing is a commercial aside to the holiday...

for what end do you do this... to push your warped idea of what you think is a religious agenda?

your demonstrated intolerance is painfully disgusting...

BTW, shut off your webcam. You're embarrassing yourself.
nahhh... i think you are the one who is embarrassing themselves by posting stupidness like that... i'll respond in kind... that obviously must be your father's mirror cam you accidentally posted a shot of...

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

Seems like all you can do here is stalk after my posts and lay your disparaging colorful eggs around the forumyou're delusional as far as that statement is concerned... check the thread's posts and see who was here first... again, factual events are meaningless to people like you...
But I wasn't responding to you. :hmm:

Engage brain before typing, Mike. It would help.
only a person like you would take an innocent celebration of an incidental part of a holiday season, and try and turn it into a hateful thing... for what end, to push your warped idea of what you think is a religious agenda...
You have once again shown that you either do not read or cannot read posts correctly.
your demonstrated intolerance is painfully disgusting...
Be my guest. Quote me and prove it. I tried to show Takeda that in the case he mentioned there's room to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, you seem to be intollerable yourself of giving people the benefit of the doubt.

But go ahead. Prove you point by quoting me here.
BTW, shut off your webcam. You're embarrassing yourself.
nahhh... i think you are the one who is embarrassing themselves by posting stupidness like that... besides, that must be your father's mirror cam you accidentally posted a shot of... not mine...

As you wish.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

you look directly above and make sense out of who you are talking to... maybe if you could learn to express yourself more clearly, then there'd be no confusion...

Posted: 16 Apr 2006 13:11 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote:
who in their right mind would think that a picture of an easter bunny was meant to be linked to any particular, much less secular representation of the Easter Holidays...

Right mike.


i dunno what kinda eyes you have in your lil head, but when i see this... well, duuuuhhh, it sure looks to me like i'm the target of your nastiness...

here... eat an easter egg, and close your mouth
http://www.metropoleparis.com/2002/713/toon713.jpg
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

--Mike

[TLAM Strike]

Yet an Easter Bunny is a dead ringer for Easter, isn't it?

A secularized version, yes. It is in line with the gradual secularization of Christianity and Christian culture in the USA over the past 40 years. Their is no requirement for anything to be portrayed religiously, especially portrayed in line with Christian beliefs in the United States.

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
-Treaty with Tripoli, article XI 1796

Such policy is not tollerated against Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Hindi, Shinto, et. al. We are asked to not only repect, but to understand the religious significance of the Holy Days specific to those faiths. One group demands you understand and respect those Holy Days another demands you understand and respect the Christian ones. The universe balances out... oh that’s another religious thing...

[The Avon Lady]

you look directly above and make sense out of who you are talking to... maybe if you could learn to express yourself more clearly, then there'd be no confusion...

Posted: 16 Apr 2006 13:11 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense wrote:
who in their right mind would think that a picture of an easter bunny was meant to be linked to any particular, much less secular representation of the Easter Holidays...

i dunno what kinda eyes you have in your lil head, but when i see this... well, duuuuhhh, it sure looks to me like i'm the target of your nastiness...
You've done it again, Mike.

Your words "who in there right mind", "how much more foolish can this get", and "just to come up with some equally foolish reply" were parts of your initiating response to my post to Takeda. Nowhere did I address you before that.

So, it's OK for you to instigate dishing out insults and then not to expect to be on the receiving end? Keep it up, Mike. Go for the gold!

[Takeda Shingen]

Their is no requirement for anything to be portrayed religiously, especially portrayed in line with Christian beliefs in the United States.

Then let us come up with secular portrayals of Judaism, Islam, et al. As it stands now, there is a double standard in America: One for Christianity, one for everyone else. Fair is fair.

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

I do not recall implying that it was.

One group demands you understand and respect those Holy Days another demands you understand and respect the Christian ones. The universe balances out... oh that’s another religious thing...

And so? Either respect them all, or ignore them all. This is not being done with equal regard.

[TLAM Strike]

Their is no requirement for anything to be portrayed religiously, especially portrayed in line with Christian beliefs in the United States.

Then let us come up with secular portrayals of Judaism, Islam, et al. As it stands now, there is a double standard in America: One for Christianity, one for everyone else. Fair is fair. There is no requirement for its followers to develop a secular set of beliefs around a holy day like Christians have.

One group demands you understand and respect those Holy Days another demands you understand and respect the Christian ones. The universe balances out... oh that’s another religious thing...

And so? Either respect them all, or ignore them all. This is not being done with equal regard. You don't need to respect one, any, or all. You don't need to do anything. That’s what’s great about America!

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

So, it's OK for you to instigate dishing out insults and then not to expect to be on the receiving end? Keep it up, Mike. Go for the gold!

as Bugs Bunny would say...

AAAAHHHHH SHHAADDDUP!!!... http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Bugs.gif

and eat another Easter Egg

the only one insulting you, is you yourself... if you would stop talking, your problem would be solved...


uuuhhh, moderator hat... don't you think it's time to put a lock on this drivel...


--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

So, it's OK for you to instigate dishing out insults and then not to expect to be on the receiving end? Keep it up, Mike. Go for the gold!
as Bugs Bunny would say... ahhhhhh shaddddup...
So when you run out of excuses, that's what you're left with.

Thanks, Mike, for being so candid about it.

Remember to take another valium.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

your still babbling avon...

here... http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/easter-eggs.jpg

stuff another egg down that open pit of yours...

--Mike

[Takeda Shingen]

There is no requirement for its followers to develop a secular set of beliefs around a holy day like Christians have.

Then we should ignore the day entirely. We'd be without this problem.

You don't need to do anything. That’s what’s great about America!

If that were the case, we would not be having this discussion. Anyway, I think this thread is about to die from moderator action. We'll have to pick this up elsewhere.

A Joyous Easter season to the Christians of this forum!

[joea]

Our Easter is next week, Greek Orthodox that is. It is far less commercial (more gastronomic) than western Easter...very family oriented, big lamb bbq, cookies bread. Chocolates yes but that is foreign influence. No Easter Bunny just Jesus Christ, and spring time and family which non-believers can share too.

Happy Easter to you all in any case.

My Easter is now, I am a Polish Roman Catholic. But it is like you say, it's also far less commercial. The family and Jesus Christ is of greatest importance. Today on my dining table you would find, bread, salt, a pieace of sausage, eggs, some other things too, but those 4 things are of greatest importance

/Wesołych Świąt

My apologies, I forgot to consider that some countries in Europe, the East European to be exact, have kept the religious and family sense of Easter be it Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox. I had in mind Western Europe more than the Western Latin Church...which keeps the message of Easter alive like your late esteemed pope (and the current one too).

[DeepSix]

Alas, I'm afraid it never has been, nor ever will be, cool to be Christian. But I don't think being hip is very high on God's list. In fact, it's not even on the list (just read the Beattitudes). Christ hung out with the most un-cool people of the day.

It would be nice, indeed, if we got a little more consideration, but as Christians, IMO, the goal is not to gain acceptance, nor even to find salvation for ourselves, but to do what we are each called to do to accomplish God's will. Getting wrapped up in secular or religious symbolism distracts us from the mission, IMO. Chocolate bunnies and crosses do not a true Christian make (any more than a Star of David makes one Jewish in spirit).

Sorry, I do not mean to make a 'holier than thou' speech. Maybe Barbara Mandrell said it best: "I was country/when country wasn't cool." I believe what I believe, whether anybody else accepts that or not.

He is risen! :sunny:

[Onkel Neal]

To put it, politically correct, into culture-free words: mjam-mjam!

An interesting observation along those lines: One of the local television stations in Philadelphia places icons for holidays (religious, patriotic, political, etc.) on the specific weekdays for the seven-day forecasts. On the 4th of July, for example, there was a little waving American flag. On Ramadan, they had the Star and Crescent. For Passover, just this last week, they had the Star of David. For Easter, they had an Easter Bunny.

Interesting. Religious tolerance and inclusion does not seem to extend to the Christian community.

I understand what you're getting at, Tak.

[bradclark1]

your still babbling avon...

here... http://www.thetalentshow.org/images/easter-eggs.jpg

stuff another egg down that open pit of yours...

--Mike

Which leads us to "Do you prefer white or brown eggs?".