Any playable subsims out there?

[Antonin]

I can't bring myself to buy SHIII because of the copy-protection issue. I'm not a computer expert, and am very worried that Starforce or whatever it's called will screw up my computer. Maybe there are ways to deal with it, but I'm worried about making a mistake and having SHIII be more trouble than it's worth.

Thumbs down to Unisoft for including such a stupid 'feature.' I'd love to spend my money on their game but I just don't have an infinite amount of time to fiddle around with a game just to get it to work and/or to fix the problems it causes with my computer.

What else is out there? I played AOD back ing the day. I played SH (Commander's Edition). Unfortunately, I don't know how to get either to run on Win XP.

Does anybody know of any playable subsims?

[Torplexed]

*Sigh* I've had SH3 for over a year now. No SF problems that I've noticed. Maybe I'm just lucky. There still is SH2 out there if you don't mind a step down in the graphics department.

[Dutch]

There are other playable sub games!?!!? :huh:

SH3 is the one and only :cool: :up:

[pythos1]

Don't worry about SF. The problems only come up if you attempt to make illeagal copies of the DVD. I have encountered no SF related problems.

[Boris]

I think starforce problems are a myth... The negative hype is generally generated by pirates who are annoyed that it cannot be beaten easily. To play a pirated starforce you generally have to go through a lot of crap and even open up the computer and unhook the drives... way too much effort.
If you buy a legit copy of SH3 you should be fine...

[Dutch]

I agree I have 6-7 games that have "starforce" on them. Never had an ounce of trouble out of either of them.

Just buy the game

[Onkel Neal]

Starforce is not likely to give you any problems, unless you try to copy the game. I've never had any problems with SF games....maybe because I don't copy games with Achohal 120 or daemon tools, etc.

[DeepSix]

Well, without being inflammatory, and with respect to those who haven't had problems with Starforce, I have to say that I don't use Alcohol or anything else and yet have had difficulty playing and burning CDs/DVDs -- unrelated to SH3, which works fine.

This is a controversial topic and I'm not trying to start a flame war over it (I think all would agree we've had enough already), but I don't think the Starforce issue should be simply glossed over, either, particularly for potential buyers who haven't experienced Starforce one way or the other.

With SH3 itself, Starforce will probably not give you any trouble. I think it's at least fair, though, to say that it may disrupt other programs or compromise your hardware, and that's the crux of my objections to it.

The best thing to do would be to check with the manufacturer of your DVD drive and ask them about possible conflicts. Be specific about all your hardware and about what software you're buying (SH3) and ask specifically about Starforce. In other words, do all your homework beforehand, and, if possible, buy the game from a store that will allow you to return it if it doesn't work.

Just trying to show both sides of this.

[Darth Brooks]

*mod edit*

Please dont mention pirate copied games. Its not allowed on these boards.

/McBeck

[AlanSmithee]

SF is not just a problem for hackers. Legimate gamers are affected too. Now, I not only don't have any of the tools for making copies (e.g. Alcohol 120), I wouldn't even know how to do so if you asked me. Nor would I want to. However, I just spent the last weekend repalacing my failed DVD drive. No, I can't prove that SF was the culprit, but the symptoms were similar to those that others with SF-related drive issues have experienced. This has left me very skeptical of SF, and I have since taken measures to make sure it's nowhere near my computer. :nope:

That said, SH3 is an excellent game. Go buy it. I'm glad I did, even with the SF issues. As to StarForce, as others here have noted, there are workarounds.


Once more: Go buy SH3! :yep:



Alright, lock 'er up! :-j

[CWorth]

The chances of you having any serious problems are very low though.I have had 3 games that have used StarForce and never once have I had any issues with it.

So instead of worrying about aomething that you probably don't have to worry about just pick up SH3 and have a good time with it.

[pythos1]

There is no way a computer program can break a mechanical device such as a DVD drive. These drives spin at even higher speeds than a cd rom, which put a lot more stress on the mechanism, which causes more frequent errors.

SF could in no why wreck the mechanics of your DVD, whoever told you that was on some good ganja, and propably should not command their virtual sub, cause crash dives to crush depth happen.

[Mowgli]

Starforce is not likely to give you any problems, unless you try to copy the game. I've never had any problems with SF games....maybe because I don't copy games with Achohal 120 or daemon tools, etc.

With respect Neal, because you havent had any problems does not mean there isn't one.

Many, many people including myself have had problems and being a retired I.T. Manager I resent the implication that anyone who has had problems must be a pirate.

I would suggest to people with doubts key in "Starforce Problems" into google and read some of the quarter million posts.

It is also interesting to note that there is currently legal action ongoing with UBI because of Starforce problems.

[Stev1]

I have never had any Problems with StarForce since installing SHlll

[goldorak]

Does anybody know of any playable subsims?

Dangerous Waters :)

[STEED]

I can't bring myself to buy SHIII because of the copy-protection issue. I'm not a computer expert, and am very worried that Starforce or whatever it's called will screw up my computer.

Why let the fear of starforce get in the way of you buying SH3 your missing all the fun of this great game. I got SH3 and no problems at all just hours of fun and enjoyment from the game. :up:

[Gizzmoe]

There is no way a computer program can break a mechanical device such as a DVD drive.

It can happen, but only if the firmware of the mechanical device is somehow flawed.

[Dowly]

Ok people, I say this one more time.

Starforce is as easy to crack as a Duke3D (That´s what I´ve heard).
So the negative things about Starforce are not the 'propaganda' of the ppl who copy their games.

[John Channing]

No problems here either.

JCC

[kiwi_2005]

Other subsims without SF

Dangerous waters.
Silent Hunter II - maybe old now but its still playable and theres some good mods, Pacific Aces, & Aces Campaign to name a few.

[SmokinTep]

Buy the game, you won't regret it. I have never had any problems.

[Catfish]

Hello,
i second that - Silent Hunter 3 is indeed the best, but for the copy protection no one can give you a guarantee.

I had a AMD 3000+ Sempron on a K7S8X mainboard, 1.5 Gb RAM, an ATI 9600 pro with 256 Mb, a Toshiba DVD rom and a Ricoh CD writer.
Since i had to burn a lot of CDs for backup purposes (digitalizing museum photos) i had to use the Ricoh burner on a regular basis, and i did only use Nero 5.x for that purpose.

I can assure i had problems when Sh3 was installed. When it came out i played SH3 for a short time until my new Toshiba DVD drive gave up (still guarantee, no problem). Starting SH3 the Toshiba DVD would spin for several minutes finally launching the game in one of four trys - after a reboot, that is. Remember i installed SH3 with this very Toshiba DVD drive with no problem before.

At the same time my Ricoh CD writer "ate" some 15 to 20 CDs i tried to burn, before i realized that this had something to do with SHIII's copy protection. Uninstalling SF did the trick and all would run, but i had to download a special removal tool to get it from my harddisk. CD and DVD problems are due to the fact the drives are mostly wired to the #1 IDE system (harddisks being usually at #0), and are run in another mode with the copy protection installed - at least that is what i heard from Ricoh and the german Nero company, fact. I cannot really appreciate a copy protection messing around with the IDE system, but ok. There are also issues with the Ring-0 thing, but making a PC vulnerable to the internet was surely not intended by the copy protection. Finally, as far as i know, you cannot run SH3 on a 64 bit system, but maybe there will be a copy protection update next time to make it compatible. Maybe it's already there, i did not need it with my 32 bit system.

I am now returning to SH3 after i bought a new LG DVD writer, which burns AND runs SH3 with the copy protection installed. The quality of this LG thing is below all standards, but at least it works now. This drive runs for 10 seconds checking the DVD, and immediately starts SH3 with no problem.

I do and did not run illegal stuff here, nor did i try to copy the game. Hell, i was not able to burn anything, let alone trying to copy the SH3 DVD with a CD writer lol. I will not turn this into another "he-who-may-not-be-named" thread, i only want to say that i did have problems, fact. Nice to hear there are other experiences.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Dowly]

Hmm... :hmm: The starforce would be a great weapon against enemy spies. They cant stole any information, because the computer wont burn anything if it has SF installed. :88)

[Antonin]

I can't bring myself to buy SHIII because of the copy-protection issue. I'm not a computer expert, and am very worried that Starforce or whatever it's called will screw up my computer.

Why let the fear of starforce get in the way of you buying SH3 your missing all the fun of this great game. I got SH3 and no problems at all just hours of fun and enjoyment from the game. :up:

I have read that people who have had Starforce installed on their computers then have trouble burning other CDsS.

I write and record music on the PC, and burn CDs of the music I create. I would be very, very disappointed if this game screws up my ability to do that.

When I buy a game I just want to play it. I don't have the time or patience to fiddle around for hours trying to work around a software problem, reinstall things, restore things, etc just to get a game to work.

I did enough of that back in the DOS days.

That's where I'm coming from.

I really, really want to play a WW2 subsim, because that's my main area of military history expertise.

I just don't want it to be more trouble than it's worth.

Thus my questions to you guys, who have more experience with SH3 and Starforce than I do.

[Darth Brooks]

*mod edit*

Please dont mention pirate copied games. Its not allowed on these boards.

/McBeck

Understood. Thank you.

[vodkajello]

I didn't have any problems, but that is no guarrantee that you won't.

I think SF only screwed up a very select few drives that had a bug in their firmware. (the software built into the drive itself that controlls how it functions and interprets instructions from operating system.)

Chances are VERY slim you will have an issue. It's definately worth it to play this game. It's one of the best I've played in years.

I hope nobody uses the StarForce system again. If publishers get scared away from such stupid copy protection schemes the companies providing them would go out of business and the world would be a better place. There is no way a copy protection scheme should be programmed in any fashion that might harm the user's system.

[Antonin]

Thanks much, Vodka and everybody else. (thanks also for the explanation of firmware) I wonder: if Starforce only caused problems with some drives, is it likely or not that a newer drive will have problems?

I bought my computer in August 2005. It's a Compaq with a 2400 AMD Athlon processor and 512 MB of RAM. Bought it at Micro Center, so it's not a custom-built gaming monster. When I told the guy what I wanted I told him I'm not a 24/7 FPS gamer but I would like to be able to play certain grown-up games like SHIII.

Has anybody who has bought a computer within the last 6 months had problems with SHIII and Starforce?

[Fender74]

i've had sh3 on my pc for a year and not had any probs with it.
i've had no problem burning cd's and dvd's either.

I write and record music on the PC, and burn CDs of the music I create. I would be very, very disappointed if this game screws up my ability to do that.

i've got lots of music apps that i use,cubase/reason ect and i've never had any problems with anything to do with this.

i can only speak from my own experience of not having had any problems,but i appreciate that some people have had problems.
but as you can see in these forums there are a lot of genuine people who have played this game since it came out without any problems.
not too much help really cause you either will or won't have problems and you won't know unless you get the game. :hmm:

but it is a great game :up:

[vodkajello]

Thanks much, Vodka and everybody else. (thanks also for the explanation of firmware) I wonder: if Starforce only caused problems with some drives, is it likely or not that a newer drive will have problems?

I bought my computer in August 2005. It's a Compaq with a 2400 AMD Athlon processor and 512 MB of RAM. Bought it at Micro Center, so it's not a custom-built gaming monster. When I told the guy what I wanted I told him I'm not a 24/7 FPS gamer but I would like to be able to play certain grown-up games like SHIII.

Has anybody who has bought a computer within the last 6 months had problems with SHIII and Starforce?


As far as I know the firmware flaw that some drives had which caused problems with the StarForce code were all drives that have now long ago been fazed out. So if your drive is 2 years old or so I might wanna check. If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

Once the flaw was recognized the drive manufacturers fixed it and released all newer versions with that bug patched in the programming.

[Sailor Steve]

Count me as yet another who installed the game a year ago (exactly one year tomorrow, the 9th) and has had no problems either playing or burning my own CDs.

[Heibges]

I've never had any problems at home, but the IT folks where I work had to go around with special software to take the StarForce Worm off anyones computers who had loaded software using SF. It's really difficult to get rid of.

[thyro]

....There is no way a computer program can break a mechanical device such as a DVD drive....

:hmm:

Get/write a small piece of code that instruct your DVD/CDrom/Disk's head to read from certain sectors that by standards cannot/should not read then you will see what happens to your drive unit...

It would require recalibration (usually this is made by equipment producer before releasing each unit into the market)... in simple words (since majority of the users don't have the means to fix them)... the only solution would be to ditch it and get a brand new one.

SF... yeah! I got it and I never had issues (fortunatly). But I know of legitime players of other games that had issues with it.

Cheers

[Sea Demon]

I was much like you......fearful of what SF might do to my system if I installed it. I decided to do some research on my own before reinstalling SH3, and have decided that SF is probably a non-issue for most PC's out there. I've also come to the conclusion that it's likely not harmful if you don't try to burn a copy of SH3 using these devices.

Therefore, I've reinstalled SH3 in early January and have seen no problems with SF whatsoever. That's 3 months and nothing wrong with my PC at all.

[pythos1]

I had a chat with my IT friend about the code in a program to mess up the calibration of your drives. All modern drives reset their calibration every time they start. So no, code in a program cannot destroy a drive.

[Catfish]

Hello,
after a year i am really happy to be able to play SH3 again, however i now have another problem:
Having exited SH3 i want to shutdown the PC, but it will not react (?). Going to the task manager there's no process or program that still runs, so what.
I once made a button for the desktop to instantly shutdown the system without asking or hesitating with this: "%windir%\System32\Shutdown.exe -s -f -t 01".
Pushing this button there's a window coming up telling me "... failed to terminate copy protection". Now what's that, anyone made a similar experience ? The DVD is not spinning.
Pushing the PC's OFF-button for those 5 seconds turns it off, but this is not a real solution. Anyone ?
Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[Fab]

I bought my copy of SH3 from Direct2Drive a week ago. Downloaded it, installed it, and am currently running it without needing a CD at all. The first I have heard of "Starforce" was just now reading this thread. Maybe that's an option, since without a CD there's no real need for CD security protection I wouldn't imagine.