Terrorism

[Vinay]

Kandahar hijacking, 9/11 ‘linked’
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060327/main2.htm

New Delhi, March 26
Fresh evidence has surfaced suggesting that the December 24, 1999, hijacking of Indian Airlines flight IC 814 was a progenitor of unprecedented terrorist attack on the American mainland (9/11). Two terrorist incidents — one in India and the other in the USA — are closely interconnected as without the hijacking of IC 814 in 1999, 9/11 possibly could not have taken place.

Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, one of the three terrorists who were taken to Kandahar for release by the then External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh, was one of the key planners and perpetrators of the most daring terrorist attempt on the US soil, said a former military intelligence analyst John Newman during his testimony before the 9/11 inquiry commission.

Newman went on to say that “Saeed Sheikh was probably a triple agent” who operated for Pakistani, American and British intelligence while being an Al-Qaida’s top functionary. After his release in 1999, Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh, a British national of Pakistani origin, was appointed member of the Majlis Al-Shura by Osama Bin Laden, said the testimony, which did not find mention in the final report on 9/11.

Despite startling revelations about Islamabad’s involvement in the 9/11 by Newman, the military government of General Pervez Musharraf succeeded in getting vital information removed from the final report.

Bin Laden referred to Sheikh as his son. No attempt was made to arrest when he returned to Pakistan from Kandahar where he was set free in exchange of Indian hostages in IC 814 episode.

The ISI gave him a house and protection from the police. He lived openly and frequented swanky parties attended by senior government officials, observed Newman adding that the US government sources told Newsweek that he was a “protected asset” of the ISI.

Sheikh, who carried many names, including Mustafa Ahmed, Mustafa Shmed al-Hasawi, Mustafa Mahmoud Saeed Ahmed, Mustafa Mohammed Ahmed, is a hijacking, kidnapping and financial expert. He was tasked with killing Daniel Pearl and is understood to have funded 9/11 by wiring $100,000 to Mohammed Atta.

Sheikh, the man about whom the Commission of Inquiry report utters no word, overhauled Al-Qaida’s logistics, communications and financial networks and was given responsibilities in international liaisons such as relations with the Hezbollah or the Sudanese National Islamic Front.

To facilitate financial and communications needs, he designed a new secure, encrypted, web-based communications system for Al-Qaida. There was talk that he would someday succeed Bin Laden. Over and above all these responsibilities, Sheikh had another extremely sensitive job for Al-Qaida.

He was the group’s principal liaison with the ISI. He worked closely with various current and former officers of Pakistani intelligence, including Lieut-General Mohammed Aziz Khan, who along with President Pervez Musharraf himself, was the most powerful commander in Pakistan.

A product of the London School of Economics, he went on to play a vital role in 9/11 by financing the hijackers. For his trouble, he received the same impersonal budget as the two other key coordinators, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi bin Al-Shibh.

As the 9/11 attacks neared, ISI chief General Ahmed became more deeply mired in the plot, apparently to secure new sources of funds for the airline tickets needed for the reconnaissance flights on the date of the attack.

In early August, Sheikh’s former prison mates kidnapped a wealthy shoe tycoon in India and held him for 15 days. Chief gangster Ansari ran the operation from Dubai in the Arab Emirates. Sheikh was carrying out his 9/11 paymaster duties. The kidnappers freed their hostage for $ 830,000 and gave $ 100,000 to Sheikh.

In an email discovered afterwards, Ansari said: “I’ve paid $ 100,000 to Sheikh,” said Newman in his testimony.

On the orders of the ISI chief, Sheikh wired the money to hijack leader Mohammad Atta. Flush with money, Atta Hamzi and Hanzour flew first class on the type of aircraft they would use on September 11, 2001.

All this does not find mention in the commission report because both the USA and the British governments were keen to enlist Pakistan as a key ally in their attack on Afghanistan.

Recent revelations in the Pakistani media have confirmed that Islamabad had paid tens of thousand dollars to lobbyists in the USA to get anti-Pakistan references dropped from the 9/11 report.

In 1993, he got hooked up with Pakistani terrorist in Bosnia to take up “jehad” and got training in terror camps in Afghanistan. In 1994, he tried to get a terrorist leader freed from an Indian jail by luring an American and three Britons to locations where they were kidnapped but the plot failed and he ended up in jail instead. The hostages were rescued.

The ISI paid for his lawyer, but he was never tried during his 5 years of incarceration. Despite his kidnapping of British citizens, he was allowed to immediately travel to London. There were no indictments either in India, the UK or the USA.

On January 2, 2000, the British Foreign Office spokesman would only say that this was so because he was a British citizen and had not been convicted of any offences overseas.


Islamist cell 'tried to con young men into attacks on the UK'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-2106395,00.html

ISLAMIST terrorists wanted to trick young Muslims into attacking Britain, by training them to fight in Afghanistan for al-Qaeda and then telling them that the country was inaccessible, the Old Bailey was told yesterday.

The British extremists allegedly intended to set up a private terrorist training camp in Pakistan, teaching hijacking and use of explosives and firearms. One also discussed poisoning water supplies with ricin. Another said that Britain needed to be targeted in the same way as America had been in the September 11 attacks.

The claims were made by Mohammed Babar, an American terrorist turned supergrass who is giving evidence against the men that he claims were his former accomplices. The seven defendants, all from southeast England, are charged with conspiring to bomb a British target, such as a shopping centre, nightclub or train. Six allegedly attended training camps in Pakistan.

Babar said that he discussed setting up a camp with Waheed Mahmood, 34, of Crawley, who insisted that those who attended had to be prepared to fight jihad (holy war) in Afghanistan. He attempted to recruit through British contacts.

But the key prosecution witness added: “From conversations I had with them [the group] I don’t think they had any intention of sending people into Afghanistan. They would tell [those at camps] later that it was difficult to go and would then give the only other option: working for them on operations in the UK and Pakistan.”

While living in Pakistan, Babar offered to set up a camp for the group. He was also involved in storing bomb ingredients; at one stage he held detonators, ammonium nitrate, aluminium powder, other explosives paraphernalia and ricin in his flat in Lahore. The castor beans, from which ricin is made, were allegedly brought from Islamabad by Omar Khyam, 24, also from Crawley.

Babar said: “He said it was a poison [and talked] about poisoning water supplies or people. He went into detail how to make it.”

He said that the detonators were sourced by Salahuddin Amin, 31, of Luton, with the help of a man who worked for Abdul Hadi, No 3 in command for al-Qaeda. Mr Amin argued with Mr Khyam because he allegedly asked Mr Amin to transport the detonators to Europe or Britain.

The court was told that the men had ordered “survival” equipment for the training camp from outdoor shops in Britain, and had special clothing made. These included shalwar kameez with zippered pockets for ammunition. A British relative of one defendant posted hiking boots, sleeping bags and solar panels to the men while they were in Pakistan.

They posed as Western tourists to travel within Pakistan and collect thousands of pounds from contacts, to fund the camp. Mr Mahmood’s brother-in-law allegedly gave about £4,000 and another contact provided £3,500, which was sent to him from Britain.

When asked for the source of the rest of the money, Babar said that each of the defendants who travelled to Pakistan months earlier had brought between £5,000 and £7,000 and entrusted this to Mr Khyam.

During discussions, some of the defendants allegedly said that they disliked al-Muhajiroun, the radical group that the Government wanted to ban, because it was “all talk”.

Some of the defendants also had leadership squabbles with other British Muslims in Pakistan when offering to provide training in exchange for Mr Khyam and Mr Mahmood becoming the “emirs” of another group. This offer was rejected.

Mr Amin, Mr Mahmood, Mr Khyam, his brother Shujah Mahmood, 18, and Jawad Akbar, 22, all from Crawley, West Sussex; Anthony Garcia, 24, from Ilford, East London; and Nabeel Hussain, 20, from Horley, Surrey; all deny conspiring to cause an explosion likely to endanger life between October 2003 and March 2004.

Mr Khyam, Mr Garcia and Mr Hussain also deny possessing 600kg of fertiliser for the purposes of terrorism. Mr Khyam and Shujah Mahmood deny possessing aluminium powder, also for the purposes of terrorism. The trial continues.

[joea]

Interesting, we in the West forget India has had a terrorist problem for decades. Thanks for the link.

[August]

Yes it is indeed interesting, if for no other reason than to illustrate what a bad idea it is to negotiate with terrorists. 150 saved which contributed to the deaths of 3000.

[Skybird]

Yes, India often is forgotten. Strange, for such a huge population. Same is true with regard to Indonesia (biggest Muslim community inside any country).

[Sixpack]

Off topic: Funny you should mention Indonesia, Sky, for WW2 caused Holland to lose this colony (thanks to Germany and Japan; yessir, Germany as well :stare: ).

[Vinay]

The terrorism that India is facing is a state sponsered one. After the Afghan liberation the U.S pulled out. But the Infrastructure to train the terrorists was intact and they continued to receive funds. This was used against India. It was a state policy. For many decades terrorists were inflitrated into India to kill as many as people as they can. In the state of Jammu and Kashmir itself the casuality was at 20,000 and above this was before the Kandahar hijacking. Even today it is going on. They have shifted their operation to Bangladesh. There is a shift in policy after the 9/11 and london attack since the western nations took a strong objections to terrorists being trained and funded. The Indian army also went ahead and constructed the wired fence all along the border fitted with survelliance radar and equipments. This made inflitration impossible and whenever they tried to cross, they were killed. Now they have shifted their operations to Nepal and Bangladesh. The attack on Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore.(In which Prof.Puri was killed was another attempt to destabilise the Indian economy.But these kind of terrorist threat has not caused any problem. Today the Mumbai Sensex (Stock market) has crossed 11,000 mark). The police was able to arrest many of them who were trying to target the software companies in Bangalore. The Indian economy is getting stronger. All these terrorists have received training for abroad. Some days before there was a blast in Varanasi (The most sacred place for the Hindus . How Vatican is sacred for the Christians, similarly Varanasi is sacred to the Hindus.) The main objective is to create communal violence. But they failed miserably and the Whole India was united in their response. Even fatwa were issued against the terrorists.

[The Avon Lady]

As an alternative, you can always blame it on us!

Pakistan does (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-03-24T143604Z_01_ISL15143_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-PAKISTAN-PAMPHLET.xml&archived=False). :roll:

[Vinay]

'Plotters aimed to bomb Tube'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2108768,00.html

Defendant tried to recruit a London Underground worker for a ‘martyrdom operation’
A MUSLIM Tube worker was asked to become a suicide bomber by an Islamic extremist on trial for plotting to attack a British target, the Old Bailey was told yesterday.

The London Underground worker, known only as Imran, allegedly attended a terrorist training camp in Pakistan with four of seven men who are charged with conspiracy.

The court was also told that a key al-Qaeda operative called Q, who gave the men their orders, was living in Luton. Q reported to Abdul Hadi, No 3 in command of the terrorist organisation.

One defendant, Waheed Mahmood, allegedly sent supplies for al-Qaeda from Britain to Pakistan, including a GPS navigation system, solar panels, invisible ink and cash.

Another, Omar Khyam, was said to have masterminded a “martyrdom operation” with a belt bomb and wanted to know if Imran would be willing to carry it out. But Imran refused because he thought the plot would come to nothing.

And the older brother of a third defendant, Anthony Garcia, was allegedly planning a separate terrorist attack on a target in Britain.

The claims were made by Mohammed Babar, an American terrorist turned informant, who is giving evidence against his former accomplices.

He said that the group discussed how to smuggle bomb parts into Britain and carried out test explosions at a terrorist training camp in Malakand, a mountainous region in northern Pakistan. The first was unsuccessful but the second created a U-shaped hole.

A video was made of their training camp activities with the intention of adding verses from the Koran, and turning it into recruitment propaganda.

The men planned to smuggle explosives to Europe inside shampoo bottles, cans of shaving foam or packages of dried fruit — shipped, couriered or taken in person — while detonators would be concealed in a tape recorder.

Mr Khyam, 24, from Crawley, West Sussex, also allegedly tricked one Muslim into carrying aluminium powder on to a flight from Pakistan to Britain to see if Customs would detect the substance.

He attended the camp with his younger brother, Shujah Mahmood, 18, Mr Garcia, 24, from Ilford, East London, and other British Muslims who are not on trial. Salahuddin Amin, 31, from Luton, did not attend because he had undergone previous training.

The men were said to have dressed and acted like tourists en route so that they would not attract attention. They moved into a hotel, travelled in a minibus emblazoned with its logo, wore Western clothes and stopped praying in public, on the orders of Abdul Hadi.

The defendants also took numerous photographs of each other while hiking and visiting local landmarks, as proof of their “tourist activities” if stopped by the authorities.

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Prosecutors rest case in Lodi terror trial, show images of camp
link (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/14208830.htm)

SACRAMENTO - Defense attorneys for a Lodi man charged with attending a terrorist training camp in Pakistan in 2003 and his father were set to begin presenting their evidence Wednesday.

Prosecutors rested their case Tuesday against 23-year-old Hamid Hayat, calling a government witness who showed jurors satellite images of a suspected terror camp.

Eric Benn, an analyst with the Defense Intelligence Agency, on Tuesday discussed images that show what he said appear to be a militant training camp similar to one described to FBI agents by Hayat.

Benn said the mountainous location and description of the camp near Balakot in northeast Pakistan are consistent with statements made by Hayat during an interrogation by FBI agents last June, shortly after he returned to the U.S. following two years in Pakistan. Images taken in 2001 show tents and a variety of buildings.

"The kind of information I got out of the (Hayat interview) transcript ... is consistent with the physical things I observed," Benn testified in U.S. District Court. "This would be a militant camp. It strengthens my confidence in that."

The government's case against the Hayat's is built partially on separate confessions they gave to FBI agents.

Hayat is charged with three counts of lying to the FBI and separate charges of providing material support to terrorists for attending the al-Qaida camp. His father, 48-year-old Umer Hayat, is on trial at the same time before a separate jury. He is charged with lying to federal investigators about his son's attendance at the camp.

The Hayats' defense attorneys have said their confessions to FBI officials were made only after hours of interrogation and while they were worn down by leading questions. They also have pointed out that both men provided inconsistent testimony.

Benn's testimony and the satellite images are potentially important because prosecutors have no hard evidence that Hamid Hayat actually attended a terror training camp in Pakistan, an angle defense attorneys have said they will explore when they begin their portion of the case.

Jurors were shown the satellite images after previously hearing from experts about Pakistan's cultural and political environment. The combined testimony showed that terrorist-training camps and anti-American fervor were prevalent in Pakistan at the time Hamid Hayat was visiting.

Prosecutors allege that Hamid Hayat attended one such camp and returned to the U.S. in May 2005 to await orders to commit attacks against grocery stores, banks and hospitals. No such attacks were carried out, and the Hayats have pleaded not guilty.

Hamid Hayat, for example, variously told FBI agents that the camp he attended was in Afghanistan, the Kashmir region, near Tora Bora or at least three other locations far from Balakot, his attorney, Wazhma Mojaddidi, said Tuesday during cross-examination.

Hayat also discussed receiving pistol training, but Benn said the satellite images did not show obvious locations for a firing range.

Benn said Hamid Hayat's conflicting statements did not alter his opinion that the satellite images could show the camp he attended.

"There was a lot of language I had to reconcile," Benn said. "Late in the interview, (Hayat's statements) stopped having any consistency. It sounded like it was just bouncing around."

Mojaddidi says her client never actually attended a camp.

Also Tuesday, U.S. District Court Judge Garland Burrell Jr. denied a defense motion to dismiss the charges against the Hayats. Defense attorneys argued that prosecutors had failed to present sufficient evidence to support the charges.

[Vinay]

Pakistani admits drugs-for-missiles plot to aid terrorists
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=4706454&nav=9qrx

SAN DIEGO A Pakistani man has admitted he was part of a plot to obtain and sell Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to the Taliban and al-Qaida.
Syed Mustajab Shah pleaded guilty in a federal court in San Diego to one count of conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and to another count of conspiracy to distribute drugs as part of the same plot.

Two other men pleaded guilty to the same charges in March of 2004 and are scheduled to be sentenced on Monday.

Shah admitted that he tried to sell five tons of hashish and a half-ton of heroin in exchange for cash and four shoulder-fired Stinger missiles, which he and the other defendants intended to sell to members of the Taliban.

Prosectuors say Shah knew at the time that the Taliban also meant al-Qaida.

Shah is scheduled to be sentenced in June.

Copyright 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Suspected al-Qaida captain busted

Man, 40, caught with suitcase, cash, bogus papers

By SARAH KENNEDY, SUN MEDIA

AN ALLEGED TERRORIST --- with links to al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden --has been arrested in the Toronto area trying to flee the country, say Sun immigration sources.

In one of the most significant terrorism arrests in Canada since Sept. 11, 2001, a man believed to be a captain of the Pakistani extremist organization Mujahadeen-E-Lashkar-E-Tayyba or LET, which is funded by Osama bin Laden and has direct ties to al-Qaida, was arrested March 16, by Canadian border service officers in Newmarket.

Intelligence sources say members of the LET have been trained in Afghan terrorist camps.

Ontario immigration sources say 40-year-old Raja Ghulam Mustafa, a Pakistani national, who went by the last name Murtaza, was arrested outside his home with a packed suitcase and a significant amount of cash on him.

Following the arrest, conducted by the Canadian border service's Greater Toronto Enforcement Centre officers, Mustafa's residence was searched and a briefcase containing fraudulent documents and a laptop were seized.

It's believed that Mustafa may have been tipped off that GTEC officers were investigating him and that he made plans to flee to the U.S.
Officials told the Sun Mustafa was "surprised" that he was found by law enforcement.

Sources say Mustafa had already given his landlady notice that he would be leaving.

He is being held at the Toronto West Detention Centre.

In 1997, Mustafa was arrested on violations in the U.S. but was released on a peace bond after he filed a claim for refugee status.

LIVED WITH FUGITIVE

During that time he fled to Canada under a phony identity and was eventually able to secure refugee status here.

Mustafa moved to Newmarket to live with his brother-in-law Syed Maqsood Aly, a fugitive wanted in the U.S. for drug trafficking and fraud, say sources.

Both men were at one point living with Syed's brother Nusrat Sheikh Aly -- a suspected human smuggler wanted by U.S. authorities.

It's now believed Nusrat Aly has fled the country.

Yesterday, both Canadian Border Services Agency and Immigration and refugee board officials were keeping tight-lipped on the arrest.

Charles Hawkins, spokesman for the IRB in Toronto, said he couldn't comment on the case.

However, the Sun has learned the case will be dealt with in private immigration hearings.

The Canada Border Services Agency also refused to comment on the case.

[Vinay]

Terror trove bought here
link (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1143760212763)

Recruiter for militant group visited Ontario on a false passport just months after Sept. 11, 2001
He obtained textile for armour plating at a plant in Cambridge, Michelle Shephard reports
Mar. 31, 2006. 05:12 AM
MICHELLE SHEPHARD
STAFF REPORTER

In January 2002, just four months after the 9/11 attacks when both Canada and the U.S. were still on high alert for more assaults, a Briton named Mohammed Ajmal Khan wasn't on anyone's radar as he travelled to Toronto to buy a seemingly benign product.

He came in search of 1,000 square metres of Kevlar.

Stronger than steel, Kevlar has many uses — from the protective coating on military jeeps and hummers and body armour used by U.S. Navy seals, to hockey sticks and the siding of canoes.

It's unclear what 31-year-old Khan told employees when he visited Barrday, a Cambridge, Ont., factory that specializes in industrial textiles, but he had already made email contact with the company so they were anticipating his arrival. Khan came with a friend and the pair was asked to sign an agreement that would preclude them from disclosing what they saw during a tour of the facility.

Khan had fake identification, and bogus company credentials, and after the purchase was made, and the Kevlar shipped to an address in Pakistan, Khan returned to his Coventry home. His friend Palvinder Singh, who had come to Toronto for a wedding, also returned to Britain shortly afterwards.

What happened next to the Kevlar once it reached Pakistan, according to London Metropolitan Police, was enough to send Khan behind bars for nine years.

Earlier this month, the Briton was jailed for terrorism offences, which included providing equipment for the Pakistani-based separatist group Lashkar-e-Tayibba. Fighting for independence in Kashmir against India, the group has close ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, according to Western intelligence services. Both Canada and Britain have designated the group a terrorist organization.

British police say the militant group was conducting operations in Afghanistan in 2002 and 2003, in areas where British and American forces were stationed, and where Canadian troops now are deployed.

According to emails later recovered by Scotland Yard investigators, the Kevlar that Khan bought was to be used for armouring up to six vehicles.

Khan also admitted he attended a Lashkar-e-Tayibba training camp in Pakistan and by September 2001 held a senior role in the organization, responsible for foreign recruits.

His friend who accompanied him to Barrday was also charged, but acquitted last month after arguing he was presumed guilty by association — he knew Khan since childhood but had no knowledge the materials were shipped to a terrorist organization.

London police hailed the conviction as the arrest of a major "terrorist quartermaster."

"Khan's conviction is very important. It sends a clear message to anyone prepared to train as a terrorist or support terrorism that they can expect to be prosecuted. We also want to reassure the public that we will continue to do everything possible to fight terrorism," said Peter Clarke, head of London Metropolitan Police's anti-terrorist branch.

While not often fighting themselves, terrorist quartermasters (those who acquire equipment for the organization) are lifelines for the group.

"These are people who are fundamentally integral to these kind of organizations or networks because they are the people that actually provide weapons or equipment so that they can carry out these attacks," says Alex Standish, British editor of Jane's Intelligence Digest.

"Terrorist organizations or groups do not want to draw attention to themselves so there's always a difficulty in procurement."

Standish says the IRA has a documented history of effectively using quartermasters to quietly import materials from around the world.

Different grades of aramid fibres, which are best known by its brand name of Kevlar, face export restrictions from Canada if they're military or nuclear grade. It's not clear what type Khan purchased and whether it was on the restricted list, thereby requiring an export permit from the Canadian government.

International Trade Canada spokesperson Brooke Grantham said he could not disclose if a permit was issued or requested in this case.

Individual companies may also require certain requirements for the sale of a large amount of Kevlar. A Barrday representative said this week he could not disclose what criteria Khan would have to meet before his sale was completed.

"Our position is we cannot comment on that issue. We were involved and participated with different police forces to aid in the capture and really we were advised we shouldn't discuss the matter," said Tony Fiorenzini, Barrday VP of manufacturing.

Khan also pleaded guilty to buying remote control and video equipment and a global positioning system. The London court was told the equipment was used to test an unmanned aerial vehicle "drone." Indian and Pakistani forces in the region have shot down similar drones laden with explosives, the court heard.

Khan was arrested on Sept. 12, 2003 at London's Heathrow Airport as he returned on a flight from Bahrain. After searching three properties in Coventry, police seized his computer and an air pistol converted to fire live ammunition. He was released on bail but rearrested March 1, 2005 following a further investigation by the police force's anti-terrorist branch.

The investigation also included American citizens, Masaud Khan, who was jailed for life plus 65 years in June 2004, and Seifullah Chapman, who was sentenced to 85 years for providing material support to the terrorist group.


Shopping list for militant group
Items Mohammed Ajmal Khan and two others acquired or tried to purchase around the world between March 28, 2001 and March 2, 2005 for the purposes of terrorism, according to Scotland Yard:

1,000 square metres of Kevlar woven fabric to make armour plating for vehicles. A high-tech video system, remote control equipment and global positioning system (GPS). This was used to test an unmanned aerial vehicle "drone" in carrying out tasks — videotaping, opening payload doors, cutting off and restarting the engine.

Two twin cam set headphones with microphones and a hand-held navigation radio.

Night vision equipment, night sights and thermal imagers.

Ten carbon dioxide capsules.

Six hundred ball bearings.

One airplane stability

and control computer.

A Brocock-type air pistol that had been converted to fire live ammunition.

In total, Khan was involved in buying three air pistols and an attempt to purchase five others.

One hundred hand

warmers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. officials: Iraqi insurgents educating Afghan, Pakistani militant
link (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14235657.htm)

Islamic militants in Iraq are providing military training and other assistance to Taliban and al Qaida fighters from eastern and southern Afghanistan and Pakistan's tribal areas, U.S. intelligence officials told Knight Ridder.

A small number of Pakistani and Afghan militants are receiving military training in Iraq; Iraqi fighters have met with Afghan and Pakistani extremists in Pakistan; and militants in Afghanistan increasingly are using homemade bombs, suicide attacks and other tactics honed in Iraq, said U.S. intelligence officials and others who track the issue.

Several Afghan and Pakistani "exchange students" volunteered to join the fight against American and Iraqi forces in Iraq, but were told to return to Afghanistan and Pakistan to train other militants there, two U.S. intelligence officials said. They and other officials spoke only on condition of anonymity because the intelligence is highly classified.

[Vinay]

Terror Alert (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aJlw1MmxL7KU&refer=asia)

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

INDIA!!!!

what about Northern Ireland... McVeigh and Oklahoma...

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

INDIA!!!!

what about Northern Ireland... McVeigh and Oklahoma...

I'll repeat:

Can you please point out the McVeighite churches in Christianity? Can you please show us where the global movement of Christian McVeighites can be found? Can you explain why there are no such churches or terrorist groups, while Islamic jihadists can be found in Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, India, Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Chechnya, Bosnia, Nigeria, Liberia, the Netherlands, and elsewhere?

[Kapitan]

What about England more to the point canvey island two attempts in the 70's to blow the 3rd largest gas storage depot up in the south east.

I live a stone throw away.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

your blindness, ms. Avon, is due to your inexplicable connection of terrorism to an established faith or religion...

you are wrong... there is none...

you are failing to see the truth of the situation, and therefore, you engage in pointless debate over things which have nothing to do with one another... and i doubt that anything i can say here, or show you, will deter your belief of this...

it is out of ignorance of facts, and a predilection towards biased reasoning, that makes you ask these irrlelvant questions...

to humor you... and because i have ignored a past question from you similar to this, i'll provide you with some things for you to consider...

you ask...
Can you please show us where the global movement of Christian McVeighites can be found?
first a quote from the American veteran website... What do timothy mcviegh, iraqi insurgents, the DNC and the MSM have in common?....they all rely on shock and sensationalism to achieve their goals...you see... some else can look at em as all being the same... someone else can see through the haze that blinds you...

second... from another 'debate' on the topic
MrP

If you believe that we should profile anyone that resembles a terrorist, how do you feel about profiling Christians? Remember McVeigh, any of the violence in Northern Ireland, abortion clinic bombers. Why dont you want to profile them? http://www.newshounds.us/2005/09/18/equating_civil_liberties_and_terrorism.php... you should read it...

more...
911 presents
TERROR FROM WITHIN
By Jason Van Vleet
Friday, February 7th, 8pm
$6 / $4 (911 members)
The word "terrorist" has been applied so liberally in the context of war, that it now implies "foreign invader". It's important to remember that prior to September 11th, the bombing in Oklahoma City defined terror in domestic terms as well as foreign. In 1983, a violent group of U.S. citizens conceived of a plan to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. A decade later, Tim McViegh killed 168 people when he detonated a truck bomb in front of the very same building. Was this a coincidence? "Terror From Within" is a chilling behind the scenes exploration into domestic terrorist cells still operating within the U.S. The work states an important question - did McVeigh and Terry Nichols carry out the bombing alone, or was there a broader terrorist network that is still at large?

"Terror From Within" makes an engrossing, persuasive case that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols did not act alone". - Kevin Thomas- LA Times
http://www.911media.org/events/screenings03/february.html
still more...The terrorists who committed this heinous act, if indeed they were Muslim, as it appears they might have been, are no more "my people" than Timothy McViegh was "the people" of Christians. http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=297

are ya startin to see how you sight is blurred with the myopia of religious bias, ignorance of the facts, fear, and maybe even a lil hatred...

you would persecute an entire religion for the acts of the criminally insane and morally derilict... why, because you have been seduced by the foes which i told you about before... ignorance, fear, stupidity... powerful enemies are these... and you seem to embrace them as if they were a virtue...

this is why your question to me is an excercise in absurdity... and you will never find an answer from me, or anyone else, in fact, that would satisfy you...

you are a prime example of why your part of the world will be at the center of the fire that will be the beginning of the end of everything...

the future has already happened... you are just racing to catch up with it... the horsemen of the apocalypse have already ridden... it is people like you, on both sides who saddled their horses... and it is people like me who must watch as maddness and insanity prevails...

happy... :zzz:

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

Thanks for you reply.

I'll let everyone else decide who is blind amd myopic here.

BTW, the world is flat - that's a fact.

[Kapitan]

If thw world is flat avon why when you go deep see does it curve?

If its flat why if you go from london in a plane and just keep going west why do you come back to the same place :D:P

[The Avon Lady]

If thw world is flat avon why when you go deep see does it curve?

If its flat why if you go from london in a plane and just keep going west why do you come back to the same place :D:P
Looking at your avatar, I'd say it's because your head's going round! :rotfl:

[Kapitan]

Thats because my head is probably sat on a tin opner one of the automatic ones :D

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

I'll let everyone else decide who is blind amd myopic here.
it's not about what everyone else thinks A Lady...

it's only about what you think...

... about what you see, about how you perceive your world to be, and about how you percieve your fellow man and woman as...

it's about you, and all others like you who have not yet learned to open your hearts and minds to the goodness in all of us...

multiply you by a million or two... and all who think like you, regardless of the viewpoint they adhere to, regardless of the pseudo religious brainwashing they allow themselves to be seduced by... by a million or two... and you have the state of affairs that exists today in your part of the world...

add to that mix, a half million or two here in the US with the same mental blindness that afflicts all of the above, and you have the beginnings of a world gone mad...

mad, A Lady... as in Mutually Assured Destruction...

there's still time though... precious little time...

the future is already written, but it has an infinite number of pathways... i don't expect you to understand, much less comprehend it, but trust me... it is true...

there is more than one you... and in the future where the you that has opened her eyes is heading, the world has started on its way to become the utopia that it could be...

... and in the future that the you who is speaking now, the blind you is heading... the world as you know it ends very abruptly.


--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

Recommended reading (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0313228744/sr=1-4/qid=1144585943/ref=sr_1_4/002-5860147-0288848?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books).

Sad, sad ostriches with their heads in the sand and their hearts in a non-existant utopia. :oops:

Here we go again, world!

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

what is sad is your demonstrated lack of humanity...

for you, the only good ***** is a dead ***** (insert your enemy here)...

it's easy for people like you to promote killing and hate... it's easy for people like you to see 'the enemy' as everyone who does not share your beliefs, especially your religious beliefs...

it's easy for you to see them as something less than human, to be done away with...

there is no difference between you, and the people that ran Auschwitz, Birkenau, Mauthausen...

you think of killing so easily because you've never had to kill in combat... do it once and have to live with it... ahhh, what am i saying... you'd probably never even realize that you did anything wrong...


--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

what is sad is your demonstrated lack of humanity...

for you, the only good ***** is a dead ***** (insert your enemy here)...
Note everone: wishing to save your own life from one that threatens you is a demostration of a lack of humanity, in Mike's world.

And a sick little world it is, too.

UPDATE: Actually let me fill in the blanks for you:

The only good regime threatening the world with nuclear weapons is a dead regime.

And you have a problem with this, but of course.

[The Avon Lady]

there is no difference between you, and the people that ran Auschwitz, Birkenau, Mauthausen...
Here's you chance to retract, jackass.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

aaahhhh, name calling... i've touched that sore spot... haven't i...

you have nothing to respond, so you resort to name calling...

typical...

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

aaahhhh, name calling... i've touched that sore spot... haven't i...

you have nothing to respond, so you resort to name calling...

typical...
Your hypocrisy abounds.

If I can be equated to Rudolph Hess, believe me your being a jackass is a gross understatement.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

Hess!!! Hess was a saint compared to the ones i equate you to...

you share the same brutal dehumanizing mentality and doctrine as some of the more infamous naziis... only, you are worse, because you have the facilities in which to educate yourself...

you should know first hand the results of sectarian hate...

listen to what you're saying for god sake...

yup, it's no surprise that you resort to mindless name calling...

if anything, you can be equated to his daughter... if he had one...

you are no threat to anyone but yourself... but a million who share your mentality would constitute a threat to world peace, no matter what side of the barbed wire fence you live on... the dangerous factor in this eqation being that soon, you both will soon have the means by which to destroy each other whoesale... and to endanger the rest of us...

that won't be allowed to happen... you would be very surprised to know the contents of a particular guidance package already part of the us nuclear response doctrine...


--Mike

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

more infomation for your consideration...

New Law for Israeli-Palestinian Couples
By Gavin Rabinowitz
Associated Press
July 31, 2003
Israel's parliament passed a measure Thursday that would force Palestinians who marry Israelis to live separate lives or move out of Israel. The government said the law was necessary to prevent terror attacks, but critics called it racist. The law, to be in effect for one year, would prevent Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip who marry Israeli Arabs from obtaining residency permits in Israel.

In pushing the measure, Israel's government cited instances in which Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza have exploited their residency permits — which grant them freedom of movement in Israel — to carry out terror attacks. "This law comes to address a security issue," Cabinet Minister Gideon Ezra told Israel Radio. "Since September 2000 we have seen a significant connection, in terror attacks, between Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza and Israeli Arabs." The vote was 53 in favor, 25 against and one abstention.

.....
.....

Local and international human rights groups have condemned the law as racist. "This is a racist law that decides who can live here according to racist criteria," said Yael Stein from the Israeli rights group B'tselem. Two New York-based rights groups, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, sent letters to the parliament protesting the law and urging lawmakers not to pass it, a statement from Human Rights Watch said. Israel and the Palestinians have been locked in a bloody conflict for 33 months, though a limited cease-fire declared by the Palestinians on June 29 has significantly reduced attacks against Israelis.

and this...
Palestinian and Israeli couples survive by cooperating in Thailand
By: Associated Press
Published: December 29, 2004

The tsunami that devastated parts of Southeast Asia brought an Israeli and a Palestinian couple together in the most trying of circumstances, the Israelis said Tuesday -- on the roof of a truck, with flood waters swirling around them.

Yossi and Inbar Gross said they were spending their honeymoon in the Thai resort of Phuket when the area was overwhelmed by a wall of water.

"What happened was, we and this Palestinian couple jumped on the roof of this Ford van," Yossi Gross told Israel Army Radio. "Below us was a raging river, a sea that washed up into the city and dragged everything along with it. Everything was wrecked, everything was ruined."

Though Israel and the Palestinians are locked in a violent four-year conflict, the emergency pushed all that aside.

Gross said they stayed with the Palestinian couple on the van's roof for more than four hours before they were able to climb down. He did not give their names. Efforts to contact the Israelis were unsuccessful.

After they made their way to a makeshift shelter, the Palestinians gave them money and assistance that enabled them to get to Bangkok and board a flight for Israel, Gross said.

"I have to tell you if there's someone I have to thank, quite simply they're the people who got us out of there," he said. "All of our money, our passports, they were left in the hotel ... without them we couldn't have gotten out."

Inbar Gross said their debt to the Palestinians was incalculable.

"Maybe we owe them our lives," she said.

Her husband said he and the Palestinians exchanged phone numbers and intend to keep in close touch.

"Friends?" he said. "Of course we are. Absolutely."


from the Isreali Insider website... http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/4678.htm

pockets of humanity all over the place... amazing, isn't it A Lady...

i don't see these people subscribing to the extinction of anyone's race or nation...

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

I don't see these people subscribing to the extinction of anyone's race or nation...
You know nahthink. You zee nahthink! (http://www.pmw.org.il/tv.html)

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

and the naziis used the same sort of stuff to infect the minds of young Germans against the Jews... you make my points about the parallels between you and them even better than i can...

you have a choice Lady... you can fall victim to this sorta stuff, or you can seek a better vision...

... and that doesn't mean you should not be vigilant, but it does mean that you should know who and what, and exactly where you enemy is.

i choose to seek the goodness out in man and woman kind... your choice is your own...

--Mike

[The Avon Lady]

I am really in need of someone else's comments here.

I have yet to fathom what actuality Mike is basing himself on.

Someone else please explain it to me.

It's just unreal. The Arabs talk of slaughtering the Jews, I post a link to these Arab video clips and that makes me like the Nazis, infecting other's minds with false hatred and racism.

Signed,
Avon in Wonderland

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

The Arabs talk of slaughtering the Jews
the Arabs... all of them... all of those Arabs...
I have yet to fathom what actuality Mike is basing himself on.
you see, there in lies your problem...

you post a link to a site sponsored by those with an obvious agenda...
you group all Arabs in a single homogenous category...

... and you wonder what i am basing my points i bring forth on :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

are you serious... c'mon now, get a grip... if the naziis were alive and active today, they would be doing exactly what you're doing...

hey, some of em are still active today... do you want me to link to a few of the same type of sites that you've just linked to so that you can see the similarities between the one that you linked to and theirs...

you are more like them than you could imagine...

I am really in need of someone else's comments here.
good idea... this is startin to look like a back and forth between just the two of us, and in all honesty, i really do try and maintain a level of objectivity on all topics on this forum...


--Mike

[Abraham]

@ Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense:
Mike, in your postings since Saturday night you have been far too personal, suggestive and often offensive towards The Avon Lady.

And lines like these at The Avon Lady (or any participant on the General Topic Forum) are a sure thing to get a thread locked:
there is no difference between you, and the people that ran Auschwitz, Birkenau, Mauthausen... oryou share the same brutal dehumanizing mentality and doctrine as some of the more infamous naziis... only, you are worse, because you have the facilities in which to educate yourself...orare you serious... c'mon now, get a grip... if the naziis were alive and active today, they would be doing exactly what you're doing...

hey, some of em are still active today... do you want me to link to a few of the same type of sites that you've just linked to so that you can see the similarities between the one that you linked to and theirs...

you are more like them than you could imagine...
Just to give a few quotes.

This is disgusting and has nothing to do with a sane debate...

CLANG!

Abraham
(with his moderator cap on)