My Kaleunt lost his Recognition manual...

[JonZ]

So I had to handle him a brand new one :roll:

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/3315/recmanual17jj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/532/recmanual27jm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:arrgh!:

[lafeeverted]

looks nice, check your spelling - Erkenmung ?? Erkennungshanbuch

[JonZ]

looks nice, check your spelling - Erkenmung ?? Erkennungshanbuch

hehe you are right, those crazy germans with their confusing letters, I misread :doh:

This is an early development so, there might be adjustments as well. Like the arrows missing to change countries.

But all the features you see works.

[Myxale]

Lol Crazy Krauts.
But as for the right form its: "Erkennungshandbuch".
But as for the manual. Like the look of the Cover! Has Texture; like it!! :rock:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Nice work as usual!!! :up: :up: :up:

[lafeeverted]

:rotfl: how did i miss that :doh:

[Boris]

He spelt Erkennungshandbuch correctly EDIT: oh yeah, he missed the D... its just all those n's and u's make things a little confusing to look at.
JonZ, can I suggest you use a different font than the one you have used...
Traditional gothic and blackletter fonts were being phased out by the NAZI regime, and its very unlikely (more like forbidden) that it would have been used on military documents.

The type of lettering that you see on German documents of the time is a "perversion" of these traditional fonts called Schaftstiefelgrotesk (An example of which you see on my sig below).
This is a font called tannenberg fett, freely available on most font sites.

[JonZ]

He spelt Erkennungshandbuch correctly EDIT: oh yeah, he missed the D... its just all those n's and u's make things a little confusing to look at.
JonZ, can I suggest you use a different font than the one you have used...
Traditional gothic and blackletter fonts were being phased out by the NAZI regime, and its very unlikely (more like forbidden) that it would have been used on military documents.

The type of lettering that you see on German documents of the time is a "perversion" of these traditional fonts called Schaftstiefelgrotesk (An example of which you see on my sig below).
This is a font called tannenberg fett, freely available on most font sites.

Thanks for your input. This is great infos.
I have very few references so I do alot of interpretation of my own.
I look into eBay collectibles and that's about it. Also, I don't want radical changes of what the game offered, but it is already disfigured enough :P. Altought, I wanted a font similar to the stock game, but couldn't find it, so I took a similar one.

I liked the fact to have at the same time the Profiles and the angles on the same page, but having to switch page was wrong to me.

The task bar is a little transparent but still can hide the angle view a bit.

The beauty of this mod is with the task bar on, you can still switch position of the views with the two arrow icon used to switch page. So instead having the angle view on the bottom it will switch position with the Profile view. It more like a bonus for people who minimize the Bar (or use SimFree).

The mod modify the menu_1024_768.ini, but it should be very easy to implant because it overwrites sections never used by the other mods. So it will be a little cut&paste code job.

[JonZ]

Well, I did not find your font. I looked into my few 40,000 font bank and saw nothing similar.

I did find some fine combines:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4520/recmanual19xr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2772/recmanual24vz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7296/recmanual33ho.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Which one is better?

Yeah BTW I put more details on that cover :arrgh!:

[Boris]

I think the first one looks the best.

Here's the font I meant if you still want it: http://www.searchfreefonts.com/archive/zip/Tannenbergotf.zip

It's a little bold, but its the only example of this type of font I have found.
I suggested the font only in the interests of realism... but I also found this:

http://german.about.com/library/gallery/blfoto_fraktur06.htm

It's the original decree to ban fraktur, dated Jan 1941. So seeing as the Erkennungshandbuch is dated 1939, I guess it should come down to whatever looks better.

What would be nice is if you coupled the mod with SH3 commander and have the handbook change years, fonts and maybe colors as the years go on... as if the Kaleun is issued with a new one.

- also... I liked the way you did the eagle on the first post, it looks like its actually printed on the book

[JonZ]

Boris, thank you very much for your help :yep:

I too think the first set was the best set.

But adding the font you provided to me looks sweet too:

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9789/recmanual47ms.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CCIP]

I vote for the first one too - it just seems... so German :88)

Great job, lovely little graphics mod of a little-considered game area!

[JonZ]

I vote for the first one too - it just seems... so German :88)

Great job, lovely little graphics mod of a little-considered game area!

Thanks, the manual was the most unfinished piece graphic of the stock game. I just couldn't stand it, ugly texture bothered me from day one. This week I just had enough to see it :arrgh!:

Update:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6125/recmanual56yo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Myxale]

Way to sail JonZ! WAy to sail.
I also find the first better. But ÌMO they all rule compared to the poor stock one!

:rock: :arrgh!:

[JCWolf]

I vote for the first one too - it just seems... so German :88)

Great job, lovely little graphics mod of a little-considered game area!

Thanks, the manual was the most unfinished piece graphic of the stock game. I just couldn't stand it, ugly texture bothered me from day one. This week I just had enough to see it :arrgh!:

Update:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6125/recmanual56yo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



WOW! :o


Fantastic job Mate! :yep:

[JCWolf]

I vote for the first one too - it just seems... so German :88)

Great job, lovely little graphics mod of a little-considered game area!

Thanks, the manual was the most unfinished piece graphic of the stock game. I just couldn't stand it, ugly texture bothered me from day one. This week I just had enough to see it :arrgh!:

Update:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6125/recmanual56yo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



WOW! :o


Fantastic job Mate! :yep:


Also what hapend to that 2 torps you've fierd on the Carrier??? :lol:

was it a Hit and sunked, or ???? :D :D

[mkubani]

Very nice!

One question/suggestion. Is there any chance of "hiding" those scroll arrows and X? Maybe you could make them dark brown or black to blend in with the leather cover. I know it's a compromise between functionality and appearance.

Is there any chance to see it in the future GW update?

[Anachronous]

Very nice

[JonZ]

Very nice!

One question/suggestion. Is there any chance of "hiding" those scroll arrows and X? Maybe you could make them dark brown or black to blend in with the leather cover. I know it's a compromise between functionality and appearance.

Is there any chance to see it in the future GW update?

That's hard to do. As a senior interface designer for a game company (not Ubi lol), it hard to do intuitive interface that fit to every user.

I've made the button more visible:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7915/recmanual20ka.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For the simple fact to not get a tons of post of people asking me where are the buttons
;)

I wanted the browsing buttons bigger because it was an issue for me, I hated t to click on the edge to open the damn manual while all I wanted is to go for the next country. Now with bigger buttons, I feel that it will not happen as often it was before.

Of course that can be changed.

[Anachronous]

Why dont you make it so you click the flags to scroll through.

[mkubani]

I see JonZ. And what about putting the arrows in the left and right lower corners separatelly while having X in the upper right corner? I understand the functionality you are trying to achieve, it just ruins the nice book cover image you have created imho.

And it would be great to see it in GW update. :yep: ;)

[JonZ]

Why dont you make it so you click the flags to scroll through.

Because not all countries have two flags. There's few countries that have a Navy flag and merchants flag, like above.

I see JonZ. And what about putting the arrows in the left and right lower corners separatelly while having X in the upper right corner? I understand the functionality you are trying to achieve, it just ruins the nice book cover image you have created imho.

Having the arrows that distanced will just make the browsing a pain. Imagine if you have a lousy mouse aim or bad timing, and you have to come back, you will have every time to travel border to border to simply go for one action. Having them close to the title was perfect for me because you focus at the same time on the buttons and the Titles.

The buttons esthetic can change, but I think I will not change the click zones. I think they are fine where they are, but there's room for optimisation.

EDIT: I think I have a better ergonomic browsing in mind rather than having the arrows on top and below the countries titles. I'll post a quick render of it when I'll come back home.

[AG124]

OK, that makes sense to me - I like it the way it is. :up: It's certainly better than the stock one.

I would just like to know, which nations will be included? The stock manual of course does not include any flags or names for nations added by modders.

I will be eagerly awaiting the release of this manual. :)

[JonZ]

OK, that makes sense to me - I like it the way it is. :up: It's certainly better than the stock one.

I would just like to know, which nations will be included? The stock manual of course does not include any flags or names for nations added by modders.

I will be eagerly awaiting the release of this manual. :)

I'm working on all nations included in IuB or GW, and frankly, it was a PITA to do. But it done. Just need to compress the area, make a batch process and we'll have about, what?, 30 countries? ;)

I am trying also to find out if there's a way to put 'favorites' countries on the top. This is fastidious to browse a bunch of countries while the concentration is around merchants and british shipping.

I will also work on a high contrast pagelayout for people who haven't moded the recognition manual tga files.

It nice because I didn't have to touch any of the ship profile tga files.

[gouldjg]

sry for accidental post

[Boris]

Any updates on this one???

[JonZ]

Any updates on this one???

Yeah, I have rework the browse again. I think I'll stick to this one.

I am doing other tweaks in the menu ini files. My Docs are almost done and I am doing assorted colors for different taste...

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2240/recmanual60nf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Heres a shot.

[Boris]

That looks awesome! Can't wait for the release.

[KptnLt Eric Karle]

This looks wonderful Jonz. Can't wait :up:

[JCWolf]

Any updates on this one???

Yeah, I have rework the browse again. I think I'll stick to this one.

I am doing other tweaks in the menu ini files. My Docs are almost done and I am doing assorted colors for different taste...

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2240/recmanual60nf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Heres a shot.


Now, This is a recognition manual, not that stock thing that for mi it's nore like a Hand book...

As allways mate, excelente work bro... :up:

[Anvart]

Hi, Jonz!

Good job.
But i want to see arrows under bird on left & right of the year.

Anvart :up:

[Boris]

Hi, Jonz!

Good job.
But i want to see arrows under bird on left & right of the year.

Anvart :up:

I reckon it would be cool to have a different manual appear every year, and have the ship types (and countries maybe) change according to their entry into the war. SH3 date folders could do this... right?

[JonZ]

Hi, Jonz!

Good job.
But i want to see arrows under bird on left & right of the year.

Anvart :up:

I reckon it would be cool to have a different manual appear every year, and have the ship types (and countries maybe) change according to their entry into the war. SH3 date folders could do this... right?

I don't know if it can be done, but with SH3 Commander, it can be feasible to update the cover 1939 to the current year. I am doing the 1939 font going through 1945 so SH3 Commander can update the manual through years.

Unfortunately I don't know if removing ships appearing only later on war can be done with the game.

[JScones]

It looks very elaborate. For mine, perhaps a tad *too* elaborate.

I couldn't find an example of an actual Erkennungshandbuch, but I found this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ostliches-Mittelmeer-ATLAS-Oberkommando-Kriegsmarine_W0QQitemZ6618268029QQcategoryZ7415QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem), which is more in-line with what I envisaged. I note the smaller Eagle - I think the one on your book is too large.

Note the use of Antiquan fonts even though the "Bormann Decree" was not enacted until Jan '41.

Anyway, just my personal thoughts which may well be quite wrong.

[JScones]

And this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WW-II-Kriegsmarine-Warship-Identification-Book_W0QQitemZ6605365631QQcategoryZ103999QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem) is exactly what I was thinking of!

[JonZ]

And this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WW-II-Kriegsmarine-Warship-Identification-Book_W0QQitemZ6605365631QQcategoryZ103999QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem) is exactly what I was thinking of!

I use the same exact texture of this same book I used for references :p

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6149/ref10bo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I'm almost done. Here's one of sample of the 7 skins that will be available.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5756/ref26jj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)





I'm doing my usual double check and writing documentation right now. I'm hoping a release this afternoon.

[Myxale]

Man, this so Rocks! :rock:
The Devs should be humbled by the things this Modders here achieve!

[Boris]

--- Double Post :88) --

[Boris]

That "Taschenbuch der Kriegs-Flotten" posted by jscones looks like an awesome resource for a lot of things... even only from those pictures.

Rather than just putting Deutschland on the cover, you could replace it by Deutsches Reich, as it is called in the real handbook... as well as calling Britain "Britisches Reich" and the USA "Vereinigte Staaten and so on.

The flags are also a great resource, at it shows the kriegsflaggen (war flags) of many nations that as yet don't have them on the cover... ie. Norway, Finland, Denmark etc.

Also, If you're going to do different years, changing the fonts and colour of the manual might be interesting additions.

[JonZ]

That "Taschenbuch der Kriegs-Flotten" posted by jscones looks like an awesome resource for a lot of things... even only from those pictures.

Rather than just putting Deutschland on the cover, you could replace it by Deutsches Reich, as it is called in the real handbook... as well as calling Britain "Britisches Reich" and the USA "Vereinigte Staaten and so on.

The flags are also a great resource, at it shows the kriegsflaggen (war flags) of many nations that as yet don't have them on the cover... ie. Norway, Finland, Denmark etc.

Also, If you're going to do different years, changing the fonts and colour of the manual might be interesting additions.



You guys are giving me too much job :88)

:-j


Can you list me all the name in your 'appropriate way' before I someone point to me after release that I should have name this country this and that... you know.

Preferably under GW mod. It has the most complete handbuch right now. This will be appreciated.

I've done 7 differents skins colors so dont worry about the variety ;)

[Boris]

Well... I have dug myself a hole now haven't I...

Ok, after a bit of research here is my list of improved and more accurate country names (I have only included those that need changing) :

Deutschland - Deutsches Reich
Russland - Sowjetunion
GrossBritanien - Britisches Reich
USA - Vereinigte Staaten
Kolumbien - Columbien
Red Cross - Rotes Kreuz

That's all I've noticed, the rest seem accurate. It's not really that important but these would be great.

[Angrykirill]

Can you post it in the GW thread? could be awesome.

[Scire]

Awesome work!!
Ready to download......!!

BTW following the Boris post here some historical indications:

Italy: Italienisches Königreich

RSI: Italienische Sozialistische Republik

GrossBritanien: England Vereinigtes Königreich

and found also for USA: Vereinigtes Staaten von Amerika

[Boris]

Awesome work!!
Ready to download......!!

BTW following the Boris post here some historical indications:

Italy: Italienisches Königreich

RSI: Italienische Sozialistische Republik

GrossBritanien: Britisches Königreich

Thanks for the extra contributions...
I was working mainly off what I could find written in actual Kriegsmarine recognition manuals, including the one listed on ebay posted by jscones.
As I said, its nice to make the names right... but nothing to spend sleepless nights over (unless that's your thing).

[Hohenstaufen]

Sorry guys but i have to improve. ;)

*"Großbritannien" ist right, no German would say "Britisches Reich"

*Kolumbien with "K"

[JonZ]

Ok, I just made an output of all the flags and their nation names.

Tell me if all are ok or if theres a flag/name to be corrected.

http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/82/nations4vx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Thanks

[AG124]

Looks great to me. :up: I'll be downloading this for sure.

I can't see anything that needs to be changed.

[Dimitrius07]

Wow :o looks greate :up:

[LGN1]

Wow, looks really great!

Just one comment and three questions:

1.) It must be 'Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika', without an 's'.

2.) In the right coloum, the 9th from below looks strange. Should it be Jugoslawien like the last one in the right coloum?

3.) Will there also be an entry for Croatia (Kroatien)?

4.) Will there also be a version without flags?


I am really looking forward to download this very nice mod. Thanks for your work!

Cheers, LGN1

[JonZ]

Wow, looks really great!

Just one comment and three questions:

1.) It must be 'Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika', without an 's'.

2.) In the right coloum, the 9th from below looks strange. Should it be Jugoslawien like the last one in the right coloum?

3.) Will there also be an entry for Croatia (Kroatien)?

4.) Will there also be a version without flags?


I am really looking forward to download this very nice mod. Thanks for your work!

Cheers, LGN1

1- Thanks for pointing, I'll make the corrections
2- It a preview only, all the bands should be same, I croped a small portion to fit in the canvas
3- If there is a mod using Croatia nation, it can be done, but only if it really nessassary. To this day, GW to my knowledge have the most complete nationality list available.
4- No. Simply for the ease of the non-german people and also for total weight issue. The package is almost 60 meg not compressed.

[Scire]

Great!!!
just a question, will there also be a version with "low contrast " pages to match the night vision?

[JonZ]

Great!!!
just a question, will there also be a version with "low contrast " pages to match the night vision?

hell yea. I started with the Low Contrast idea. Yesterday I realised that I had to do the High Contrast version :nope: .

[LGN1]

Thanks, for the fast reply. I think I saw Croatia in one mod but I don't remember which one. Anyway, it is not important.

Concerning the 'no flag' version, I just asked because I would like to have a version without swastika. But no problem if there is only one version I can remove it myself.

Thanks again for all the great work!

Cheers, LGN1

[JCWolf]

Thanks, for the fast reply. I think I saw Croatia in one mod but I don't remember which one. Anyway, it is not important.

Concerning the 'no flag' version, I just asked because I would like to have a version without swastika. But no problem if there is only one version I can remove it myself.

Thanks again for all the great work!

Cheers, LGN1


I understand your desier for that diferent version, but using the Swatica doesn't necessary means that you believe and agree with the Swasticas Idealism and meaning, it's just an historical aproach... :up:

[JonZ]

I understand your desier for that diferent version, but using the Swatica doesn't necessary means that you believe and agree with the Swasticas Idealism and meaning, it's just an historical aproach... :up:

I wish we don't start a debate about using the Swastika. For some people it not only a matter of personnal use but many things like Familly issue or law afairs... don't want to elaborate on this but I guess you get my idea.

At this time it there was no planification of mine to do a version sans Swatiska... Maybe in a future.

[LGN1]

I completely agree that using the swastika in such a situation does absolutely not mean that you are a nazi or something like that. It is just a matter of taste. I don't like it but that does not mean that I have problems if others are using it.

Cheers, LGN1

Edit:
I just saw JonZ comment. Sorry for bringing up this topic. It was not my intention to discuss this. Just a question. Thanks for your reply!

[JCWolf]

Actually i didn't ment to start any debate about this matter , but i think i can talk freelly about the subject, and also i started saying that i understood his taste and opinion of what he would like or not, as he says, it's a question off taste, but also have to tell , that using a Swastica doesn't give you any kind off law prossecution, unless you're a using it for political, racial, or religious, matters, or ofcourse if you are a Nazi and live in Israel ( JK). :rock:


It was just an opinion! :up:

[JonZ]

Well, what do you know.

I found a very simple way to add a version sans Swastiska without a high cost of Kilobytes. It was a breeze to do.

[Boris]

Sorry guys but i have to improve. ;)

*"Großbritannien" ist right, no German would say "Britisches Reich"

*Kolumbien with "K"

I speak German myself and thought some of these names look strange...
But in:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WW-II-Kriegsmarine-Warship-Identification-Book_W0QQitemZ6605365631QQcategoryZ103999QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem
That's how the countries are called, according to the headings at the top of pages and the flag identification page.

So they actually did say Britisches Reich and spelt Columbien with a C...

Sorry everyone, I just don't like being wrong so I have to justify myself :smug:

[JonZ]

hmm which one I should believe, Boris or Scire :hmm:

[ADukes]

hmm which one I should believe, Boris or Scire :hmm:
The historic correct one ;)

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/28/72/81_10.JPG
Is it Jugoslawien or Jugoslavien?

[LGN1]

Hi,

Great news about the 'non-swastika' version!

Concerning the names: I am from Germany and I have never heard something like 'Britisches Reich'. Kolumbien with 'C'? Maybe in those days it was Ok. Anyway, both things may be right and written in the book, but they look and sound really, really strange to me. I guess, almost every german guy who sees that will think it is wrong. No idea what one should choose.

Greetings, LGN1

Edit: Just saw the book. Amazing! Thanks for the picture! In those days they wrote lots of countries differently: Canada, Jugoslavien, Cuba, Nikaragua are all written differently today.

[JonZ]

Hi,

Great news about the 'non-swastika' version!

Concerning the names: I am from Germany and I have never heard something like 'Britisches Reich'. Kolumbien with 'C'? Maybe in those days it was Ok. Anyway, both things may be right and written in the book, but they look and sound really, really strange to me. I guess, almost every german guy who sees that will think it is wrong. No idea what one should choose.

Greetings, LGN1

Perhaps it like the word gay, long ago it meant happy, now these days ... :shifty:

[JonZ]

hmm which one I should believe, Boris or Scire :hmm:
The historic correct one ;)

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/28/72/81_10.JPG
Is it Jugoslawien or Jugoslavien?

Interesting aDuke. Even the flags seems to be conflicting, I use the GW flag as reference tho.

[JonZ]

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/827/nations6wa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

An update of the chart. I've change Columbia, Britische, and Jugoslavien

What dyu think

[ADukes]

Still an S to much and remove "von Amerika": Vereinigtes Staaten von Amerika -> Vereinigte Staaten
Also with C instead an K: Kanadische Kriegsschiffe -> Canadische Kriegsschiffe

[JonZ]

Still an S to much and remove "von Amerika": Vereinigtes Staaten von Amerika -> Vereinigte Staaten
Also with C instead an K: Kanadische Kriegsschiffe -> Canadische Kriegsschiffe

Alright. Now Updated:

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/7249/nations9lc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ADukes]

Historic perfect :up:

[mkubani]

JonZ, great job!

Well, here are my 2 cents.

1. Please look for the Estoninan naval jack here:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ee~.html

This one can be seen in the original Uboat manual too.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/e/ee-naval.gif


2. Latvian warship flag (the one u have now is correct - for merchants):

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/lv-ensgn.html

You can also see it on the photo of the original Uboat recognition manual posted above.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/l/lv-waren.gif


3. Well, I am not sure, if this is a scope of your work too mate, but you may want to note the following:

a.) Albania was occupied in spring of 1939 by Italy = no fleet in September 1939 = should have no entry in the Recognition manual

b.) Czech part of Czechoslovakia was also occupied in spring of 1939 by Germans = no Tschechien entry. Please also note, that there was no independent Czechia prior to WW2. There was only Czechoslovakia and then it was occupied. Czechia did not exist in WW2. Well, last Czechoslovakia had no fleet anyway. :)

c.) Slovakia - became independent and German ally in 1939, but had no navy at all. Only river boats = no entry in the manual.

If you do want to keep this entry anyway, here is the correct WW2 flag of Slovakia.

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/slovakia/images/slovakia.gif


d.) Hungary, the same as Slovakia = only river and Balaton boats = no entry in the manual.

You can especially trust me on b, c, d since I am Slovak and know a lot about Czechoslovakia and Hungary too.

Last but not least, will you be also changing the flags on the ships so they match your manual nicely?

And thank you for your hard work!

[JonZ]

Thanks for your input,

unfortunately I am weary about changing the flag design because if I do this, it automaticaly mean I have to redo also the flag the merchant and warship inside the game models.

I don't want that for now.

Also note that the entire flag occurance is depending on the mod you are using. They won't show up if they don't have these additionnal countries. Removing or adding flags won't have any effect on game.

You can however post about it in the GW errata thread since most of my flags comes from them. I'm pretty sure they will listen to you and make the changes in a future patch.

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50043

[JonZ]

I re-edited the flag to reflect 100% GW mod.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8319/nations1xx.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[AG124]

Why are the Australian and New Zealand flags suddenly Red instead of blue? Is that the color they actually were in WWII?

[JonZ]

Why are the Australian and New Zealand flags suddenly Red instead of blue? Is that the color they actually were in WWII?

I did a few search and it appear to be the actual color of their navy. I don't know if they were red in WWII. The recognition manual that aDukes posted were blue. Whos wrong here? don't know.

I'll be sticking for the GW flags until they make the changes if they do. I have backuped the old flag so it won't much to get it again :)

And GW mod have their flag red too.

[Boris]

I know that the merchant Aus/NZ flags in the game are blue... the page from the real book has a red kiwi merchant flag, but the one for australia is thae standard blue...
Who knows...
Also JonZ, the book shows all the Navy War flags for countries that yet do't have them... Denmark, Finland etc
Argentina also needs the yellow sun in the flag...

[JScones]

Relax everyone, nothing's wrong.

Australia's "Handelsflagge" during WWII was indeed the Red Ensign. The flag listed and labelled in the Weyers Warships Identification Book is the service/official flag (ie Dienstfl.). For whatever reason the Red Ensign is not included (unless it is on another page).

[Scire]

hmm which one I should believe, Boris or Scire :hmm:

in all the documents i've found the names are the following:

British : Vereinigten Konigreich
USA: : Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika
Russia: Union der Sozialistischen Sowjet-Republiken
France: Frankreich

for example please have a look on here (original documents from documentarchiv.de) :

"Feststellung
seitens der Regierungen des Vereinigten Königreichs, der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika und der Union der Sozialistischen Sowjet-Republiken sowie der Provisorischen Regierung der Französischen Republik über die Besatzungszonen in Deutschland
[vom 5. Juni 1945]

( http://www.documentarchiv.de/in/1945/besatzungszonen-deutschlands_fst.html )

[JScones]

I don't think a "link war" is going to solve anything here.

Put simply, the closest guide is at http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WW-II-Kriegsmarine-Warship-Identification-Book_W0QQitemZ6605365631QQcategoryZ103999QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

I'm sure if you looked at another German publication of the time it would cite the countries differently, just like now I have in front of me three English documents referring to the USA as "United States", "United States of America" and "America" respectively.

Perhaps we are now getting too pedantic, but I want what was used at the time in either the equivalent document, or in this case the closest thing we've come across, the Warship ID book. Doing so provides the most correct context.

Of course, one must also remember that the link is of the *warship only* ID manual, ie excluding merchants and others. Our SH3 book is all inclusive. So perhaps any label including "Krieg" is not an overly accurate description. Anyway, one for a German to answer!

[JonZ]

well... the nation name and flag issue just delay the release :down:

I think we have to make a concensus about the flag and names so everyone is happy.


I did the flag and names as everyone wished but still getting into deep political historic correctness. I did the flags as it is in GW and IuB to not make any confusion in the Identification of a nationnality of a ship, but it not even please anyone so maybe I have to redo the flag texture of the ships in the same process...

And I think this should be made in another thread since it another part of the game.

[Boris]

Relax JonZ, you've done a great job so far, you shouldn't have to worry about our suggestions too much and they aren't must do's!
I for one am not going to be all that dissapointed if it doesn't turn out completely accurate (whatever that may be)... anything is better than the old rec manual and yours looks awesome.

[JonZ]

Relax JonZ, you've done a great job so far, you shouldn't have to worry about our suggestions too much and they aren't must do's!
I for one am not going to be all that dissapointed if it doesn't turn out completely accurate (whatever that may be)... anything is better than the old rec manual and yours looks awesome.

Thanks, but I will leave for a couple of hours and hopes things will clears up a little bit when I'll come back. I think there's still room for adjustments.

I also have the idea to release with the pack a template, for people who wants to add or wants to correct some flag

[Scire]

Relax JonZ, you've done a great job so far, you shouldn't have to worry about our suggestions too much and they aren't must do's!
I for one am not going to be all that dissapointed if it doesn't turn out completely accurate (whatever that may be)... anything is better than the old rec manual and yours looks awesome.

Totally agree! :up:

[CWorth]

Relax JonZ, you've done a great job so far, you shouldn't have to worry about our suggestions too much and they aren't must do's!
I for one am not going to be all that dissapointed if it doesn't turn out completely accurate (whatever that may be)... anything is better than the old rec manual and yours looks awesome.

Totally agree! :up:

Make that two of us :up:

Jonz..just do what you think is best and ignore the rest.This is your mod and you have the right to make it how you want and not how they want.If they dont like it then they dont have to download it.

Let the guy do his work..if it is not 100% accurate..so what..its not the end of the world.

JonZ is trying to improve something in the game and all you guys can do is complain that "this or that is not correct" :nope:

[LGN1]

Hi all,

I don't think anyone is complaining. JonZ is doing a great work! That is out of question!

I guess it is hard to answer what is historical correct. As JScones already mentioned, probably there were all kinds of names for the countries used. I think all choices are reasonable! So I would just release the version, YOU (JonZ) like the most. All are great!

Cheers, LGN1

[Dutch]

I must say, Great Work! :up:

Its amazing the work you modders put into making this game what it is today, UBI should be giving you a portion of the profits :-j

But in all honesty please do keep up th good work, I wish I could help, unfortuantly I don't have the time or the resources or the know-how for that matter :nope:

The communty sure does take advantage of these modder's skills, I sure hope they know how appreciative we are. :up:

[JonZ]

Sorry for beign meanful earlier, it wasn't in my intention at all.

But I really felt something has to be done... and I did something :)

The solution for the flags was simple:
just add a second flag for cross mod references.

So it mean that if a mod carry more accurate ship flag, there's chances that the recognition manual cover will have it.

Making the cover flags more multi-mod friendly. Ain't that great?

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9286/nations9mw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JonZ]

The only concern I have left are the names for Kriegsschiffe.


Some of you wanted me to change it to Reich but for some it doesn't make sense. I'm all for the historical accuracy but if it means more confusion for the german user, I will simply revert them into Kriegsschiffe. Also note that South Affrica, Canadian and australian still have Kriegsschiffe because no one requested me to change it to Reich...


What do you think?

[Boris]

Kriegsschiffe means warships... so Australische Kriegsschiffe means Australian Warships. Replacing Kriegsschiffe by Reich would make no sense as Reich means empire. ie Deutsches Reich - German empire, Britisches reich - British empire

If you have any concerns you could remove Kreigsschiffe alltogether for consistency... and the length of the words
If you wanted to change them all to include Kriegsschiffe some would have to be really long... such as "Kriegsschiffe des Deutschen Reiches"
It looks fine the way it is as it makes sense and all... but if you want to use the simple names:
Südafrika
Australien
Kanada

[JScones]

Relax JonZ, you've done a great job so far, you shouldn't have to worry about our suggestions too much and they aren't must do's!
I for one am not going to be all that dissapointed if it doesn't turn out completely accurate (whatever that may be)... anything is better than the old rec manual and yours looks awesome.

Totally agree! :up:
Ditto!

[Martin1813]

:rock:

fantastic job, JonZ ! :up:

don't worry, critics are always a good thing. by the way, I see more advices than critics here ;)

[Angrykirill]

Awesome job! Looks amazing! When is it ready to be downloaded? (or have I missed the link?)

[JonZ]

Release is delayed to the next week end I'm affraid. I'm working on new features and documentations. This is more complex than it was previously announced.

The installation remain simple, but I've been working on 7 and maybe 8 additionnal assorted color skins. I added the possibility to remove the Swastika with a simple remove of semicolons with the notepad.

I am now working for an implementation of SH3 Commander, the date of the book will change over the years and possibly the skin too.

And... the testings :nope:

JonZ

[Txema]

JonZ,

Excellent work !!! It looks great !!!

However I want to say that the Spanish flag is wrong.

The flag you are using is the one that is official nowadays.

You should use the flag that was official during the dictatorship of General Franco, specifically between 1938-1945.

You can check it here:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/es1938.html

Thanks for your excellent mods !!!


Txema

[JonZ]

JonZ,

Excellent work !!! It looks great !!!

However I want to say that the Spanish flag is wrong.

The flag you are using is the one that is official nowadays.

You should use the flag that was official during the dictatorship of General Franco, specifically between 1938-1945.

You can check it here:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/es1938.html

Thanks for your excellent mods !!!


Txema



I think my version is the correct one. I however cannot find accurate info about the use of the naval ensign:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es~1938.html

[Sailor Steve]

I agree about the 'Kriegschiffe' listings. Unless you use 'Kriegshiffe' for every country's warships, it looks odd. Just my opinion, and everything else looks great.

[Txema]

The version of the spanish flag you are using is the one that is official nowadays.

As you say the correct one is the flag you can see here:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es1938.html

The difference between both flags is in the Coat-of-Arms. The 1938-1945 flag includes the Eagle of St. John behind the shield, while the current flag (that you are using) features a crown as you can see here:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es.html

Do you agree with me?


Txema

[JonZ]

The version of the spanish flag you are using is the one that is official nowadays.

As you say the correct one is the flag you can see here:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es1938.html

The difference between both flags is in the Coat-of-Arms. The 1938-1945 flag includes the Eagle of St. John behind the shield, while the current flag (that you are using) features a crown as you can see here:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es.html

Do you agree with me?


Txema

If I follow your link, I also end up to this page:
http://flagspot.net/flags/es~.html

It specify that the ensign and jacks are the one with and without the emblem. Civil and war flags...

seems a bit contradictory :doh:

Anyway, I will just add the other version if it necessary...

[Txema]

JonZ,

Thank you very much for your interest !!!

I DON´T think that adding the R N letters is a good idea. They were used only by the Naval Reserve. The Naval Reserve was made up of merchant ships which ocassionally transported goods or troops for the State or the Navy. While transporting them, they had to fly this ensign.... But this happened only occasionally....

I think you should use exactly this flag:

http://flagspot.net/flags/es1938.html

Including the Eagle of St. John behind the shield.

Is it possible to do it?


Txema

[JonZ]

JonZ,

Thank you very much for your interest !!!

I DON´T think that adding the R N letters is a good idea.

I edited my post too late ;)

[coronas]

Spanish flag for that time:
http://217.127.34.207/banderae.htm
1939-1975[/img]

[coronas]

Warships, flag with eagle and shield. A flag is enought. Thanks for the work. :up:

[JonZ]

Another update

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/57/nations6bt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'd like to take this moment to say thanks to everyone who contributed for the names and the flags.

Your contribution was very helpful to the devellopment of this project :up:

[ADukes]

Canadische -> Canada ;)

[Boris]

Jonz, I hope you don't feel like I'm cutting your grass... but rather than just giving suggestions all the time I thought I'd help you out:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/Boris117/nations_boris2.jpg

list of changes:

added/changed warflags for the scandinavian countries
changed warflags to left side for consistency (Argentina, Bulgaria)
USA back to just Vereinigte Staaten
Corrected names of Canada, Australia, Southafrica (couldn't match the font though)

[ADukes]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/Boris117/nations_boris2.jpg
Corrected names of Canada
Kanada could also be Canada, like in the historic manual.

[AG124]

There seem to be a lot of people making corrections to your manual, JonZ. :o But take that as a good sign - people are very interested in your mod and want to help. :up:

I personally wouldn't mind if one or two country names or flags weren't absolutely perfect.

[JonZ]

Jonz, I hope you don't feel like I'm cutting your grass... but rather than just giving suggestions all the time I thought I'd help you out:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/Boris117/nations_boris2.jpg

list of changes:

added/changed warflags for the scandinavian countries
changed warflags to left side for consistency (Argentina, Bulgaria)
USA back to just Vereinigte Staaten
Corrected names of Canada, Australia, Southafrica (couldn't match the font though)

I don't think crafting the flags shape is a good idea since the game don't support it AFAIK.

However the name you have suggested has changed to your request.



Updated First post of this page

[JCWolf]

Ohhh brother, can't whayt for this one! :rock: :rock: :rock:

[Txema]

You have done an excellent work on the spanish flag.

Thank you !!!! :up:

I can´t wait for your mod !!!


Txema

[irish1958]

Jonz,
Has your Kaluent found his manual yet? If so, where is it?
irish1958

[Fabrice]

I was about to ask the same, hope to download this mod soon! Your rec manual is so much more eye candy than the stock one.
Perfect job :yep:

Fabrice

[JonZ]

Sorry for the wait everyone!

I'm hopping to release it tomorrow. I've made critical structural changes to lighten the installation and corrections procedures and I need to test the whole thing again tonight. So instead of installing 3-4 files+nationnalities, you'll just need 1-2 files+nationnalities...

I also have to rewrite the manual installation documentations to match with the new changes.

I'll be also releasing a standart pack for GW users, GW+IO and TW users.

[Rubini]

Great work mate!
Just waiting the link! :up:

Rubini.

[Boris]

Looking forward to it!

[JonZ]

Looking forward to it!

It here: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50958

:yep: :rock: :lol: :|\

[Tim D]

OUTSTANDING!!! Keep it up.
Peace :rock: :up: :rock: